Out of the FOG

Coping with Personality Disorders => Co-parenting and Secondary Relationships => Topic started by: Associate of Daniel on February 17, 2017, 03:15:57 PM

Title: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on February 17, 2017, 03:15:57 PM
My son's (10) N Stepmum is manager of one of his sporting teams.  She is supposed to inform all of the parents each week of where and when the game will be, and other relevant info.

Initially she emailed everyone and had me down last as a cc (instead of on the main list) and under a name that no one would recognize (my official first name that no one calls me and my maiden name which isn't my official name and I don't use it).  But that's irrelevant.

She later changed to texting everyone.  I guess texts are easier for everyone to keep track of. But they also don't reveal the other recipients' details.

Her texts were long. Things like "hope you're all managing to relax with a bottle of wine on the balcony like we are, we 3 have great plans for the weekend.  My lovely husband is scoring this week" (ie: that's my  u/npd ex who she maintained an affair with throughout our marriage)....  she'd also provide info on the rival team and interesting, useful stuff like that. She's high functioning and good at making herself  look good to other people.

Anyway, this year, it appears I've been removed from her list of recipients for texts re the weekly game.

I can (and do) get the info for the games from the official website. But anything extra, like cancellation of training etc.   needs to come from her. And since I take my son to every training session, I sorta kinda need that info.

She sent a text to everyone except me regarding the term start date for training. I had to email her the day before the usual date to ask if it was on. She emailed back one word, no.  I heard nothing for the next week. So I emailed again on the training day, asking if it was on. Again, one word. Yes. She didn't refer me to the text she'd sent to everyone else which had given the start date and she could have given me the start date in response to my first email. If I hadn't asked her, I would have taken my son to a training session that wasn't on.

Come the first game of the year, my son's team had a bye. She texted me the day before,  "There's no basketball game tomorrow.".

Come the following week, she texted after 9.30pm the night before (she, my ex and I have a curfew of 9pm to 9am), 3 words. "(Time), game, (place)."

There is no way she'd be sending such sharp messages to the rest of the parents.

It's now the morning of the next game. While I've been typing, she's finally sent through details. It came through at about 6.40am. (Again breaking curfew.) Again, short and sharp. And strangely, on the phone she insisted she NOT use for game info. (I have 2 phones.)

I SO WANT TO CALL HER OUT.  I so want to let the other parents know what sort of person she is.  I'm tempted to ask one of them to forward any texts she sends to them but I don't want to drag any if them into the mire. And she's undoubtedly poisoned them against me anyway.

I know she's doing it to get my attention. She can't stand to be ignored. 

Should I ask her to reinstate me on the list? Should I bypass her and involve another parent? Should I just  pretend it isn't happening, not say anything to anyone and hope I don't miss any vital info?

I'm not sure when the season ends. Maybe my son will quit soon,  and maybe (hopefully) someone else will put themselves up to replace her as team manager. (Maybe she'll quit the role since our team is at the bottom of the ladder!)

I'm just so sick of her (and my u/npd exH) getting away with apalling behaviour and many people not knowing  about it.

The curfew thing has been normal for her game texts too, even the ones she sends to the other parents.  I don't think any parent appreciates receiving such texts so late at night.  One night it was just before midnight. It's attention seeking.

Sorry this has ended up so long.   I wasn't going to go into so much detail but I guess I'm frustrated.

What should I do, Folks?

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: bopper on February 17, 2017, 03:57:29 PM
First I would start out asking if you could be placed on the same email/text group as the other parents...you are talking to the other parents and it seems as if you have been inadvertantly left off as they are getting texts you are not or are getting them  much later than everyone else. (pretend it is inadvertant). 

Is she the head coach of the team? or is there anyone "above" her on the team?  If so, copy them with the above request.

If that does not work contact the league and ask if what the procedure is supposed to be to get information about cancellations in a timely manner. You have been asked to be put on the same list as the other parents but for some reason the manager won't do it.

Also ask some of the other parents when you see them in person at the games/practices  to foward you any email or texts that she sends out regarding team info as for some reason you have been left off the list despite repeated requests.

None of this mentions she is stepmum, had an affair, is too wordy or anything but you are a parent of a kid and are not getting the info in a timely manner.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Crayola13 on February 18, 2017, 03:00:15 AM
She's ashamed of her affair and feels like too much of a low life to talk to you.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: HotCocoa on February 18, 2017, 05:45:37 AM
I would make it uncomfortable for her.  Start by calling and emailing the other coaches/managers of the team as well as the other parents.  "I'm not getting emails/texts from the manager, please send me all information about such and such, really appreciate it!"  Then, whatever form of communication you use, such as our family wizard, start letting your ex know.  "I haven't been put on any emails/texts for communication about games and practices, I have emailed and texted the other managers for information as well as spoke to the other parents.  This blatant removal of information is a violation of our court order." 
You can't play nice.  I would also do it every time they take your child to the dr. without your knowledge.  "This is part of a court order, I notified you xx day of when I would be taking child to dr., He came home and stated he went this weekend without my knowledge or consent, this is a violation of the court order." 
Start tracking it for the court so when you go in again, not if, when, you have proof of what has been happening.  It also puts them on notice you are aware of their games.
All business sounding emails, don't get emotional, although I know the feeling inside.  Hang in there!
:bighug:
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on February 18, 2017, 06:10:46 AM
Thanks for your replies, Folks. I've taken your advice on board and will decide soon what to do.

Hot Cocoa,  our court orders are a little too vague to hold him accountable.  I am in the process if trying to bring clarity to them in the areas you've mentioned.  But as my solicitor repeatedly tells me, the court can lay out all sorts of rules but they can't make someone behave.  The consequences for going against them are pitiful and meaningless.  The only real consequences to be had require physical abuse to occur. And (thankfully) that has never been an issue.

But I like your idea of emailing him to summarise the occasions with dates etc..  I do keep emails and summaries of events myself. But I usually don't confront him on his actions because it just feeds his fire and I'd rather have a peaceful life.

Crayola, I wish it were true that she's ashamed of her affair. But I don't believe she has the ability to feel shame. I see instead an extremely insecure woman who is desperate for attention.  Any attention - negative or positive. And she simply cannot see that what she does is inappropriate.  She sees that it hurts other people but she simply doesn't care. 

I do believe that my u/npd exH is ashamed and is riddled with guilt. But he deals with it by projecting his behaviour onto others so that he doesn't have to be accountable.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Stumbleon on February 19, 2017, 02:02:59 AM
Also if you have a parent who is a good friend of yours, even as you are asking to be placed on the proper lists, I would ask that person to forward any and everything to you in the meantime so you and your DS don't miss out!! Go team :)
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: WesternLover on February 19, 2017, 07:27:03 PM
Hello Associate of Daniel,

I really liked what HotCocoa had to say.  Even though the court may have what seems like insignificant consequences to this behavior, I would still document all instances it. You never know how it may benefit you in the future. Perhaps, since she is your son's step-parent, you will have to deal with her on other matters as well. If she acts the same way in other instances, you can build a better case for contempt.  Just a theoretical example, you can prove she tried keep you in the dark on the games, blocked your communication with your ex and refused to cooperate on informing you on doctor's appointments.  As Pink Floyd's says these are all examples of bricks in the wall she is building to keep you out and make you insignificant.  Eventually you may have big pile of bricks as illustrations of her alienating behavior.

I agree the Narcissist don't really feel shame. If they somehow do, it's only for a fleeting instant before they are able to quickly justify it away, blaming it on someone or something in the the outside world. It's YOUR fault they did what they did.  Her thought process says if you weren't such a bad wife, your husband wouldn't have had an affair with her, and he did because she is just better all around. These people are so callous in that regard, they could kill one of your family members, and say how you somehow forced their hand. Someone with no or an under-developed conscious cannot feel shame.

Me personally, I would definitely befriend another parent on the team. Usually narcissists wind up making an enemy or two. Perhaps she made a comment to another parent that somehow belittled their child. Also, if I didn't know her all so well, my kid was on her team and I had receive texts about her awesome life and how her husband was getting lucky, I'd find it totally obnoxious. I read it and in my head I'd be like "Lady, who the f*ck cares about how ridiculously amazing your life is, and how awesome you and your husband are???" I'd also find it inappropriate she was talking about her husband getting lucky on a group forum, as a coach, of a kid's sports. That's probably because I have experience with a narcissist though, and could smell that crap for miles.

And you know what? Since you said you can't see the distribution list on a text, maybe she didn't send the awesome weekend text to everyone. Maybe she just sent it to you in order to rub salt in the wounds. Narcs love to do that as well. Any who, my guess is she also rubbed someone else the wrong way on that team or maybe you have a particular parent you are friendly with. I would definitely see if they would be willing to forward you the texts, so 1) you can keep informed of what really going on and 2) your child doesn't miss out as a result of her own game playing.

I bet it would drive her even more nuts if you managed to show up at all the games despite her attempts to isolate you. Plus she wants to press your buttons and lead you into a conflict. I think it's best to go above her to like others said as well. See if you can get a manager involved somehow.  Remember though she wants to make you feel small. Be careful calling her out though unless you're sure someone else sees through her b.s. too.  Otherwise it may backfire.

I wish you the best of luck!
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on February 20, 2017, 12:05:36 AM
Thank, WL. A little short on time currently but wanted to clarify... when I wrote that N Smum said her lovely husband was scoring it was in reference to him scoring the game on the weekend.  Each family is rostered to be scorers throughout the season and the team manager lets us know who's turn it is each week.

You made me chuckle though!

As an aside I initially thought that my ex and I would alternate the job of scoring the game when our family's turns came around. You know, share the load?  He made it abundantly clear that I was absolutely NOT to do any scoring and how DARE I think that that was a good thing to do.   

Lol.  I get to watch my boy with my full attention at every game and not have the worry of getting the score wrong.  Ex doesn't.

Thanks all.  Will keep you posted.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: WesternLover on February 20, 2017, 12:54:11 PM
Oh my, oops, that is funny indeed ;D :tongue2:  Laughter is a great antidote, at least I could provide a little comic relief :)
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on February 21, 2017, 05:36:01 AM
So I've emailed N Smum tonight asking to be reinstated on her list of parents.

Her question was what info did I think I had missed out on. Um.. I don't know because you haven't texted me. :stars:

Anyway, of course she's refusing, saying she's sending me the info relevant to me. So is she sending seperate texts to everyone with info only relevant to them? I hardly think so.

I've drafted a text to the previous coach who is now "just" a team Mum, asking if she'd forward the common texts to me.  I will send it on Thursday evening after I've seen Smum and/or u/npd exH. I need to time things right. You all get that difficulty. ...


AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on February 24, 2017, 07:06:33 PM
Update:

It took 9 emails to and fro. The inevitable circular "conversation" but I managed to stick to the point,  I think.

She tried repeatedly to say she'd told me the start date of training. LIE

She eventually said that if she managed to send everyone the text within curfew I'd get the same text. Otherwise I'd get a seperate one.  I said I don't mind receiving team texts out of curfew as long as they're the same texts and sent at the same time.

I didn't call her out on the fact that the seperate texts she's been sending have been sent outside of curfew and shouldn-t have been.

I didn't bother saying that the 9pm to 9am curfew was probably a good idea for the other parents as well.  (She's not a parent and only looks after my son on weekends. )  I don't know any parent who appreciates receiving such texts much later or earlier than those times. Especially just before midnight or before 7am on the morning of the game.

Her final email was that if I wanted to be treated the same as the other parents I needed to treat her with  the same respect that they do:  saying hello to her and thanking her for her texts.

Last time I said hello to her she yelled at me loud enough for a pool full of people to hear. And I doubt that every parent says hello and thankyou to her every week. Too many people around at games and we-re all a bit busy to send a thanks for every text.

And why should we fawn over her for DOING HER JOB?????

I so hope someone takes over the team manager's role soon.

Anyway,  she sent me the team text yesterday, and within curfew.  I sent her a thks (couldn't help but think she doesn't deserve any vowells!) text a minute before curfew kicked in. 

I didn't cc anyone into our emails and I didn't send the text I'd drafted to the previous coach. I've kept it just in case.

We'll see how this pans out.

Thanks for your advice,  Folks.

AOD

Ps:  I don't like the person I am with her. Not saying hello or thank-you, and thinking nasty things is not me.  But it's done for self protection. You guys get it.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on March 19, 2017, 10:42:54 PM
Back again. (Are you surprised?)

So she sent 3 texts,  within curfew.

Then I hear from ds on Friday morning that the breakup party is happening the following day.

What breakup party?

Yep.  She hadn't included me in the arrangements and hadn't informed me it was happening.

I don't go to the breakups because they happen on my ex's time.  But as team manager she should have kept me in the loop.

Her excuse was that she knew I was going to a school event on that day and that I wouldn't be able to attend the breakup.  (I'll be speaking to the school about them letting my ex know of my involvement. Hopefully it won't happen again.)

She was sweet as pie, gleefully letting me know that she knows some of my private business.

I don't want this to continue into next season.  She said she'd include me in everything and hasn't.

Should I contact the other Mum as I originally planned to do?  If so, when?

The presentation night is in 2 weeks and it's possible that someone else will take over the role of team manager.  If they do,  and I don't tell anyone of her behaviour she will have got away with it (again). If she continues in the role her behaviour will continue.  Should I wait and see if she continues in the role before telling anyone?

Should I just forget about it?

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Medowynd on March 20, 2017, 05:20:05 PM
I would not forget about it.  I would contact the other mom and find a way to stay in the loop with out the SM.  Why should she be rewarded for her behavior.  I would not be surprised that she is having friendly conversations at school fishing for information.  Hope this gives you some ideas.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on March 21, 2017, 05:53:04 AM
Thanks, Medowynd.

Thinking about it further though.  Like many pd situations,  I'm going to look petty if I report it.  She's done just enough to be able to say she's done her job.  She's informed me of what was relevant to me. I just wasn-t given all of the same info that the other parents received.

I don't think outsiders would get the situation.

I don't know. Do I want the drama that will ensue if I report her?

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: bopper on March 21, 2017, 10:24:24 AM
If this was not the stepmom, how would you handle this situation?

The person is not giving you timely information.  Maybe it is time to tell the coach/league that you are having issues getting info and if there are other volunteers for team parent that might be good so it will be neutral. Could you volunteer?
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on March 23, 2017, 07:01:57 AM
It's logical that I volunteer for the role of team manager.  But I wouldn't dare put myself in the line of my u/npd exH and his Nwife's fire.

He forbade me to score any games and they both let me know in no uncertain terms that I was not to sit in a certain spot during games. Somehow I can't see me being team manager as being acceptable in their sight!

I don't want the role anyway. NSmum has made it a hard act for anyone to follow.  And I'm a single Mum holding down 3 jobs. I have enough on my plate.

There's a lot happening in other areas of my pd world at the moment so I'm thinking it best to leave the basketball dramas alone for the moment.   If NSmum retains the role I think I'll say something to the other Mum. But if someone else takes over I think I'll leave it.  We're at the end of the season so there are currently no games.

Thanks for your helpful support and suggestions,  All.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: mamato3 on March 23, 2017, 09:43:10 AM
I don't know how you stand it AOD - I would lose it with all the ridiculous rules and restrictions they try to put on you. You are the MAMA and you have custody! I would probably seek out a different basketball team or pull him altogether, unless he loves it. I think this whole thing is absurd.  :stars:
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Jorogu on April 12, 2017, 07:59:55 PM
AOD - i just read this thread and I feel you!!

You are having this PD woman project all this stuff onto you, and it is nearly making you feel like you are the things she is saying.

What she is doing is awful. I have seen people of all ages behave this way -- it's intentional and it's cruel, and you are not petty to notice it, nor are you petty to report it.

If someone was doing this to your son, would you step in?

I certainly would.

I totally get not feeding the beast -- I have to second third fourth fifth guess myself before coming up with a response to the PD's latest antics (my H's uBPDxw)...

But you've now 10th guessed yourself -- and I'm tellin ya: you're not petty. People will get it. You are being left off of team texts and emails and repeated requests to be included have been ignored. Is it possible to make sure a neutral party has this role next year?

Also, THIS:
Ps:  I don't like the person I am with her. Not saying hello or thank-you, and thinking nasty things is not me.  But it's done for self protection. You guys get it.


^^ I have said exactly this! I am this really odd person around my H's xw. Sometimes I am friendly, but usually I am not. I avoid eye contact, ignore her, and generally act really weird. My H says I am losing when I do this. He says the best response to everything from her is happiness and indifference. But I can't muster it. I abhor this woman! And so around her I am a very strange person indeed. I honestly don't recognize myself. No one would recognize me!
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on April 13, 2017, 07:00:55 AM
Thanks, Blazey.

My son didn't want to go to the presentation night. He told me he was too tired and wanted to stay home.  He had been struggling for a few nights with getting to sleep and waking too early.

Of course when I emailed u/npd exH to tell him we wouldn't be going, I was accused of influencing ds' s decision.  He dragged up irrelevant stuff from 3 years ago, where he'd accused me of being a bad influence on ds.

He told me to get ds to contact him but he wouldn't.  I kept encouraging him to contact his dad through that night and the next day but to no avail.

Eventually I asked him if he thought his dad might be angry with him for not going. (I don't like putting words in his mouth but I want him to feel free to tell me his thoughts and fears.  He really struggles with it.) He said he thought his Dad would be mad.

I said that I didn't know if Dad would be mad but that he (ds) had every right to choose not to go and that I supported him with whichever decision he made.

Aaanywaay... the next game is about 10 days away. I'm assuming training isn't on because of the holidays.

But I've not yet heard from NSmum re training or the game.  I have no idea if she's still team manager.

I've been wondering if, if the role is now in someone else's hands,  she might decide not to hand my contact details on to them.

Time will tell.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on April 14, 2017, 01:54:10 AM
Aarrgghh!  Just found out she's still team manager. I don't want this.

:sadno: :thumbdown: :no_shake: :sad2:

Wish someone would  :abduct: me (or her).

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: mamato3 on April 14, 2017, 03:53:55 PM
I'd put him on another team. Seriously.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Medowynd on April 14, 2017, 11:26:53 PM
It is time to either complain to a higher up or have someone else pass on the information to you.  Is there another parent that can pass on the information?  I would not be beholden to her.  What is she going to say when you start having the information that she denied you.  I am sure that the other parents are aware to those two PDs that you have to deal with.  I doubt that they can present a shiny face at all of those games. 
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on May 02, 2017, 05:04:33 PM
Thanks, Bloomie and Bopper.  I like your suggestions,  Bopper.

I received a few of the common texts but she's reverted back to sending seperate ones.  I confirmed that with one of the other Mums.

She handed out Code of Conduct forms (for parents) to all families except me. I said I'd like to sign one. She said I didn't have to cos u/npd exH already has. Form says ALL parents and guardians are to sign. She said she'd give me one at pickup 2 days later. Guess what?  No sign of it. I printed one out from the website, took it to training and gave it to another parent to give to the Mum who's being team manager while NSmum is away this fortnight.

I spoke to the other parent. She's agreed to pass on texts to me. She also advised me to approach the committee.

I received a forwarded text from her this morning.  And no, NSmum (team manager) hadn't sent it to me.

I spoke to the committee secretary. She's going to send out communication to all team managers reminding them to text ALL parents on the lists, and she'll resend the lists. She's also going to remind them that ALL parents are to sign the Code of Conduct form.

It will be interesting to see what happens.  I doubt it will change things. But at least a few people are aware now.

Secretary also informed me that it had been requested that my details be removed from their file.

I made short work of that, giving her my preferred name and my preferred email address, both of which u/npd exH and NSmum refuse to use.

So we're trying to get NSmum to behave without directly accusing her. Not sure what to do if (when) she doesn't change her ways.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: mamato3 on May 04, 2017, 03:28:32 PM
I suppose, if you ever need to go back to court, having all those people know what she's doing might work in your favor. I still don't know how you do it. You are a strong Mama.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on May 29, 2017, 06:32:00 AM
Thanks, Mamato3.  I don't feel strong most of the time because I let Smum get away with so much. Ie:  in the interests of self protection I don't stand up for myself much.

Anyway. An update:

I have been thinking lately that she won't cope with handing over the role of team manager to go back to just being a supportive step parent.

She's more likely to take on the role of coach.

And wodoyuno?  Tonight she announces to ds she's going to join in with the training next week instead of just being an observer.

She's plotting.  She'll probably institute a role of "assistant coach".  Hopefully she'll overstep a few boundries and the coach and future team manager and even some parents may see her true colours.

A few years ago ds did a few sports at the gym where her sister works.  He now goes to her gp, her dentist,  her optometrist, and another sport run by her friend. All of them close to where she lives with ds's father (my u/npd exH), an hour's drive from where ds lives (with me).

And where is ds' s dad in all this?  Nowhere to be seen, in terms of organising and decision making.  It's all Smum, Smum, Smum.

Pleeeaase. Please may she be setting herself up for all to see what she's really like.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on August 11, 2017, 09:38:08 AM
Thought I'd check in.

Things are exactly the same.  I'm still receiving seperate, 3 word texts from NSmum, instead of the ones she sends to everyone else.

One other Mum knows and the secretary of the club knows. But there's nothing that can be done.   NSmum is sending me just enough info to be able to say she's doing her job.  And it's a voluntary position so how do you remove such a person from such a position?

I have said nothing more to NSmum about it as it will only fuel the fire and she won't change her ways.

This will end one day. Probably only when ds tires of playing the sport, which doesn't look to be any time soon.  But it will end.

For a time I had the other Mum forwarding the other parents' texts to me but I felt guilty about putting her in the middle so I asked her to stop.

I was hoping that by ignoring NSmum she'd start doing the right thing. How long does it take for pds to give up?

I think she must secretly like me. Why else would she allow me so much space in her head and extra attention through seperate texts?  :bigwink:

About 6 weeks ago I decided I'd thank her for the texts if they met 3 requirements:

They were the same as those sent to the other parents,  they didn't have a dig at me ("My lovely husband is scoring. ", " game is at [my suburb], my least favourite place in the world.", and if the texts came within  our curfew.

So far none of those criteria have been met.

I can't wait for this to be over. I pray again that someone else will take over the role....

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Kit99 on August 16, 2017, 10:02:59 PM
Ugh, what a piece of work. I would simply ask her to include you on the team communications "so she doesn't need to send you separate updates." Play to her ego and selfishness.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on August 18, 2017, 10:17:41 AM
Thanks, Kit99. But I don't think that would work.

The latest game she and my u/npd exH are playing is as follows:

For a few games now he has been sitting off to the side of the court taking photos of the kids with a very expensive looking long lense camera.

I thought it might have been for publicity purposes of the club.  But it seemed weird that he was doing it at so many games. I know that organisations are supposed to have the parents' permission to use photos in publicity material.  So I was expecting to soon hear that there had been a form distributed to all of the the other parents. I knew that the team manager (ds' s N Smum) wouldn't give me a copy even though she should.

Long story short:  I asked one of the Mums about it. She said he's taking photos for personal use and making them available to the parents on his Dropbox.

I'm not hugely interested in seeing the photos but do want to call him out on not letting me know.  How do I get access to his Dropbox?  Do I need to be invited to look at it?

Do I bother calling him out?

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Stepping lightly on August 18, 2017, 11:10:18 AM
Hi AoD,

I am so frustrated for you.  I think I've mentioned that my DSS had BM's BF as his coach, so we went through some of this nonsense as well. 

Maybe ask one of the other parents to send you the link to the dropbox, if you are comfortable doing that, and see if you can access it.  If they send it to all the other parents, no reason you can access it too (it IS your kid).  If you can't access it (quite likely depending on the program), you can decide if you want to straight up ask for it because you heard the other parents had received it and somehow you were left off that email.  If they say no- they expose themselves and save it for documentation for court.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Diavore on August 18, 2017, 01:03:37 PM
I totally understand this, completely get how other non victims of BPD people wouldn't and relate to your fear of looking like a petty drama queen (which is what the BPD wants) and worse...the fear of their retaliation.  I have found that many of those around our children (teachers, coaches, etc) have all seen the likes of our ex's many times over and can sniff them out in a heart beat.  My guess is that the step mom has stepped on more than a few toes in her reign as team whatever she is and there will be those who aren't the least bit surprised that youre having issue.

My advice, just as suggested by another earlier, is to treat it like you would any other person who seemed to be having trouble getting you information related to your childs activity.  Go above their head or to another parent but keep it short, simple and non-accusatory.  "For SOME REASON, I'm not getting all the information regarding the teams activities and although I don't attend every event, Id still like to be kept in the loop."  If possible, Id do it by email as most childrens organization have strict obligations regarding this type of thing and they may not be too happy to figure out that you are the only one not getting the info.

Hold your head high...high, high above that B%tch
.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Stepping lightly on August 18, 2017, 02:25:02 PM
Hi AoD,

I am thinking that the more official parent emails to compare against the 3 word texts sent to you would be nice to have for the next time you are in court (I think with PDs we all know there is always a next time).  There is no reason you are not copied, other than they are just flat out trying to make you crazy.  It's not like your messages include extra logistical information since you are parenting the same child.  Ugh- hang in there!
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Diavore on August 18, 2017, 03:02:05 PM
Right! Its actually taking them MORE effort to keep you separate than to just add you to their already established distribution list.  Whats worse is I'm sure its all a part of their smear campaign to make you look uninterested in your childs activity.  I'll tell you what, I go to every single thing held on my parenting time or not. Even classmates birthday parties if held in a public place as its in my order that I can and I've met all the other parents anyway thru the multitude of volunteer work Ive done to ensure that I see my child every day of her life even when shes with the N.  No matter what he says/does, everyone sees my ACTIONS, most importantly my child.  I don't care what anyone thinks of me but my daughter.

I can think back at several people ive come across in life that remind me of your ex's new wife and a lot of those around them wanted to see them eat a dirt sandwich but never did anything about it cause their antics didn't directly effect them so everyone just talked about it behind their back while the queen bee waked around thinking they had a tribe of minions hanging on their every word.  Reminds me of that movie "Mean Girls." 

Watch it...picture her as "Regina" for a good laugh.  You deserve one.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on August 19, 2017, 09:01:47 AM
Thanks.

Yeah. Nah. She has them all fooled.

I asked another parent about the dropbox thing. I told her I hadn't received the email u/npd exH sent to all the parents about it and she said she'd send it to me.

In the meantime I've asked u/npd exH to forward me the email.  But of course I haven't had a response.

So I guess I'll report it to the secretary of the club. But again, there's nothing they can do.

I intend to tell ds too. He's of an age now that I can let him know a few things.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: bopper on August 28, 2017, 03:36:55 PM
You seem to be trying to do this all by yourself. I think at this point I would ask for help far and wide.  Contact the league and ask the coach coordinator how to have the coach give you the same info as the other parents.  Talk to each of the parents and ask what info they get because you aren't being given any. Let everyone know what is happening.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on August 28, 2017, 04:15:52 PM
I've thought of doing that. But pds are terrified of being exposed.  If I let everyone know, and ex and his Nwife find out, they'll likely remove Ds from the team.

Having said that though, the parent who has been helping me is not returning next season, I've just found out. So I'm going to have to ask someone else. Gradually more parents will find out.

Thanks.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on September 18, 2017, 08:59:19 AM
It was the award presentation night for the club tonight.  Nsmum made a display of herself and the coach showed that he has no clue of her true colours. 

I got talking to one of the mums and she mentioned an email the club had sent to her announcing a change of night for training. I hadn't received the email.  She kindly forwarded it to me.

It looks like Nsmum will not be team manager next season.
:boogie: :fireworks: :banana: :banaaana: :chestbump: :cheer: :cascade: :groovey: :party: :uhhuh: :thewave: :woohoo: :fireworks:

I wonder what her next move will be...

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Whiteheron on September 18, 2017, 09:14:45 AM
Great news AOD! :cheer:

I'm sure she'll find some other way to try to get under your skin.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on March 29, 2019, 04:41:06 PM
So here we are, 18 months later.

UNPD exH moved ds12 to another club, in his suburb.

So ds has to travel for an hour and a half to 2 hours on a week night in order to attend training.  I don't take ds as it's on his time with his uNPD dad and I also work at that time.

The games are on the weekends when ds is with uNPD exH, so that's ok.  Although it means a huge chunk of time and travel for me if I attend games.

I attended a couple of games initially but stopped - not because of the travel. Because ds is very uncomfortable with me and his uNPD dad and/or uNPD smum being together. And because uNPD exH's aggression at mediation around that time caused me to think I should keep myself (and ds) safe by not attending the games.

So. Now uNPD smum is taking over the role of team manager and coach.

Amazingly she included me in a team email yesterday, including all of the emails of the other parents and having me within the list instead of as a cc.

So, everything she should do.

Methinks she's on her best behaviour because we're all heading to a court approved psychologist in a few weeks as uNPD exH is trying for custody.

The email was about a change of venue/day/time for training. Both options happen on ds's time with his uNPD dad so don't affect me much.  But one of them would mean he'd arrive back an hour later to my place than is currently agreed.

I really want to say that I should be able to have that extra hour elsewhere each week.

Logistically, me taking a reciprocal hour could only happen every fortnight, due to our current changeover arrangements.

Should I bother asking for it, or am I being petty?

I know exactly what uNPD exH's response will be. Do I really want the drama?

And should I suggest my idea to ds?  He's likely to not want to come with me for the reciprocal hour.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: athene1399 on April 04, 2019, 07:43:23 AM
That is a tough question, AOD. I personally hate giving up the extra time, because I feel it ends up working out that they expect more extra time in the future. But if you ask for the time back to make it even out that will probably cause problems as well. It's probably one of those "pick and choose your battle" moments. Is it possible for them to get DS an hour later on their first night? Like if they pick him up on Friday, can they get him an hour later so it evens out? Or suggest that give you the extra time once the season is over so it evens out down the road?  I feel they are always messing with you or trying to screw with you. It's just so crappy and you never get a break. I am really sorry. :( It just feels like they try to make it all about them and what is best for them and they never take a second to think about you. Like now the games are closer to them. Just like with the school your ex is suggesting. DS lives with you so why would he go to a school so far away? Oh yeah... because uNPD dad lives across the street. I get so fired up just reading it. And you have every right to get upset at what they do to you. Just don't let it consume you. It's a lot to handle. BM gets me fired up too, but it's usually over something stupid. I just hate how people believe her BS. It sounds like you got that going on with SM. Like your afraid the other parents don't see it, or will think you are the bad guy. From what I've read about high conflict PDs and experienced with BM, their true colors show at some point. And we all believe you because we've been there.  Hang in there. One day you may be able to go NC with them (once DS is grown up). :) Then you won't have to deal with their BS anymore.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on April 04, 2019, 03:24:18 PM
Thanks, Athene.

Your suggestion about uNPD exH picking up ds an hour later is a good one.

I'm going to suggest it, since my first request has of course been refused with the usual diatribe.

His alternative suggestion is that ds stays with him on the night of the sport and he drives him to school the following morning. Getting up very early after what will likely be a late night at his place and commuting for an hour or so in peak hour traffic.

Yeah. Really in the best interests of ds (not)  and making things difficult for himself (lots of stressful traffic and getting to work late. No logic.)

The night also comes when ds is still recovering from the late nights he's had with his uNPD dad on the weekends....

And likely, they'll drop him to school late anyway or not until home time cos they hate the school...

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Rose1 on April 05, 2019, 12:24:39 AM
They may dig themselves a nice hole. The sense of entitlement eventually bites them. So he misses a few school days, has to explain that to the court. Or gets sick of the whole travel thing.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on April 05, 2019, 08:32:49 AM
Yeah. Nah. Suggestion number 2 has been refused as well, with the standard diatribe.

Next?

I thought he'd be on his best behaviour since we're heading to court. Apparently he's not that sensible.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Penny Lane on April 05, 2019, 09:14:41 AM
My first thought was to just say, "no, he can't do the activity." It's your time, your ex scheduled an activity on it, he won't be flexible for you. But I don't think that's in your son's best interests.

What if you said, "I only agree to give up this parenting time if you find a way to make it up another time"? Of course, he could just say no, he is taking this time. And then you'd have to decide what to do.

Could you show up at the activity at the point where your parenting time is supposed to start? Inconvenient, yes, but it makes the point that your ex and his wife can't shut you out of your son's life, on your time. And it's a solution that doesn't require your ex to act appropriately.

I certainly think if he's just going to take your parenting time, you are within your rights to refuse to be flexible about giving it up in the future. But I know that doesn't feel like enough now.

Now that court is looming, too, you have to consider what a judge might think. If you go in guns blazing saying "you cannot have him for this time," I don't think that's going to look good. Much better to state your objections and point out that he's violating the parenting plan by scheduling things for your time. And ask him not to do something similar in the future without working it out with you first. And then hopefully bring it up in court.

All incredibly frustrating, I know.

We're dealing with a similar situation. The kids have a holiday with their dad coming up. BM is just saying, no, I won't let them be with you. (She explicitly says this is retaliation for saying he won't trade time with her when she goes out of town, which he is not required to do.) His options are to go back to court and ask the judge to force her to let him have the kids for this one day, call the police to be there during the handoff, or just live with it. None of those solutions are really acceptable. So I guess we just live with it. It really burns me up. But I'm trying for radical acceptance. This is the hardest thing she's done so far to just accept.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Associate of Daniel on April 07, 2019, 10:18:47 AM
Thanks, Penny Lane.  I'm sorry for your situation.

I could turn up at training at the changeover time. But why should I travel an hour there and an hour back? It's uNPD exH's responsibility.

So, now uNPD exH says he's discussed it with ds12 and ds wants to stay with him on the training nights and have his uNPD dad drop him to school the following morning.  Of course ds says that. He's 12.

So ds would stay Friday and Saturday nights with UNPD dad, me on Sunday nights, uNPD dad on Monday nights then me Tues to Thurs before starting again. And have an hour's peak hour commute to school on  Tuesday morning, probably after yet another late night at his dad's on Monday nights. That's if he's taken to school...

Insanity.

If I say no, uNPD exH will tell me that I have to pick up ds from training.

I don't understand why he's being so manipulative and obviously not working in ds's best interests when we are essentially on our way to court.

Surely he can see this is not going to look good for him.

AOD
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: hhaw on April 07, 2019, 02:31:36 PM
I think the way you handle this will help the Judge SEE the PD is making insane arrangements in your son's life.

It's crazy to select a team sport with all that travel, IME.

Why couldn't they sign d up for the same sport near d's home?  Because PDs often create chaos, then hope to turn it to their advantage, IME.

They want custody.  Attaching D to a sport near the PD's home works for the PD's agenda.

That it's costing D sleep, and tiresome unnecessary time on the road SHOULD be something the PDs consider, but they don't.

I'm curious what the options near your home are.  Why did the PD not consider them?  You should have those options ready to present to the Judge to show the PD could have made more rational choices for his son.  SHOULD have made better choices for his son.

Judges like to see kids in activities.  They like to see all parents involved in getting the kids TO those activities, and participating.  They also like to see sound reasons behind the choices.

I don't like the idea of D spending those extra nights with the PDs.  I'd drive that extra bit, and DO SOMETHING AMAZING each night.... pick out carry out from d's favorite spot to share with you ON YOUR SIDE OF TOWN.

You have to remember your mission.   This trial will end.  DS will transfer his time to his peer group, and hopefully be less interested in parents, generally.

I'm sorry you're getting jerked around like this.

It does suck.

 

Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: Rose1 on April 07, 2019, 05:20:18 PM
I agree. Friday nights should be with his peer group at your place since he can't have Saturday. Tough after a work week but doable. I'd make sure his peer group comes from your side of town, not ex's. He's a bit young but it will happen in the next year or so anyway and better if they're not from some club miles away.
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: not broken on April 07, 2019, 07:08:19 PM
Penny Lane, I am really sorry to hear that they are using your son and his activity to play games with  you, and no doubt your son picks up on the stress of it.  I understand that coordination that goes in to a travel sport, both as a parent and a team manager.  My best advice to you is to try and switch your mindset from getting them to "follow the rules" or act as you would think the other parents would want.  I would change their game, to serve you, and as my mom always said, "kill them with kindness."  Addressing many of the issues like location, etc. will be tough to get the communication piece changed- and as you said will just create more circular conversations. 

I would forward one of her rude/short emails that you know she sends only to you at the last minute, to the ENTIRE team (parents and coaches) and suggest that they try a communication tool like Team Snap or WhatsApp. I don't know if you are familiar with any of these app, but I am, and have set them up for multiple travel teams for my daughter.  It won't matter if they actually switch and start using one of these, your point will be made to her.  Your forwarded email could say something like this:

Hi XXX,
I really appreciate your sending this, I am not sure why I did not get the original email or text.  Also, I can see how much time this takes of yours,  so I wanted to ask everyone what they thought of XXX Team using an app or online communication tool such as Team Snap or WhatsApp (they can be free depending on the level of functions we want).  I really think it would streamline the communication for updates, etc. and be a huge help to you, plus I don't know if you are familiar with Team Snap, but one of the things it does that is really great, is that you can send an urgent update, for times like this morning when there were changes or information to share so close to game or practice time, and it will send a text alert and an email simultaneously to the whole team.  I know that sending texts and updates can be time consuming for you, especially when it is at odd hours or last minute info due to weather, the other team or anything in between.

Also, the coaches can send notes to individuals or the whole team too very easily if they would like, plus it can track the availability of the players for practices and games.  This might be really useful for players to put notes in the schedule for when they have a school or family conflict, and the coach will be able to see who is missing beforehand to plan accordingly. 

I don't mean to overstep, I just thought this might be helpful for everyone, and something the coaches and parents may want to consider.   Thanks again for managing the team.


If you redirect your attention from the drama she is creating, to what YOU NEED TO MANAGE YOUR DAY TO DAY AND TO BE THERE FOR YOUR SON, the conversation quickly requires a solution. You can say that it is difficult to share information with multiple households for a child, and this also offers an archive of all messages that are sent.  So you can see if someone is being eliminated from the messages, plus it documents the whole schedule.  Honestly, it really is a helpful tool, her drama aside.   I don't know how old your son is, but it also is a tool to help with transitioning to independence for him- to know his OWN SCHEDULE.  He needs to feel in control of his activities and life- and I can speak from experience that this has been a huge problem for my daughter who plays sports with her NPD Dad (we are still together and I have been navigating this).  This manifested in some OCD behaviors for my daughter like not letting me put her window down in the car, putting a spoon away that I got for her breakfast and then getting it herself, etc. 

You will never find peace by playing her game, nor should you have to.  Focus on you, not her.  She and your ex may not subscribe to logical thinking or common sense, but the other parents will.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Need advice
Post by: not broken on April 07, 2019, 09:53:25 PM
Associate of Danie, I am really sorry to hear that they are using your son and his activity to play games with  you, and no doubt your son picks up on the stress of it.  I understand that coordination that goes in to a travel sport, both as a parent and a team manager.  My best advice to you is to try and switch your mindset from getting them to "follow the rules" or act as you would think the other parents would want.  I would change their game, to serve you, and as my mom always said, "kill them with kindness."  Addressing many of the issues like location, etc. will be tough to get the communication piece changed- and as you said will just create more circular conversations. 

I would forward one of her rude/short emails that you know she sends only to you at the last minute, to the ENTIRE team (parents and coaches) and suggest that they try a communication tool like Team Snap or WhatsApp. I don't know if you are familiar with any of these app, but I am, and have set them up for multiple travel teams for my daughter.  It won't matter if they actually switch and start using one of these, your point will be made to her.  Your forwarded email could say something like this:

Hi XXX,
I really appreciate your sending this, I am not sure why I did not get the original email or text.  Also, I can see how much time this takes of yours,  so I wanted to ask everyone what they thought of XXX Team using an app or online communication tool such as Team Snap or WhatsApp (they can be free depending on the level of functions we want).  I really think it would streamline the communication for updates, etc. and be a huge help to you, plus I don't know if you are familiar with Team Snap, but one of the things it does that is really great, is that you can send an urgent update, for times like this morning when there were changes or information to share so close to game or practice time, and it will send a text alert and an email simultaneously to the whole team.  I know that sending texts and updates can be time consuming for you, especially when it is at odd hours or last minute info due to weather, the other team or anything in between.

Also, the coaches can send notes to individuals or the whole team too very easily if they would like, plus it can track the availability of the players for practices and games.  This might be really useful for players to put notes in the schedule for when they have a school or family conflict, and the coach will be able to see who is missing beforehand to plan accordingly. 

I don't mean to overstep, I just thought this might be helpful for everyone, and something the coaches and parents may want to consider.   Thanks again for managing the team.


If you redirect your attention from the drama she is creating, to what YOU NEED TO MANAGE YOUR DAY TO DAY AND TO BE THERE FOR YOUR SON, the conversation quickly requires a solution. You can say that it is difficult to share information with multiple households for a child, and this also offers an archive of all messages that are sent.  So you can see if someone is being eliminated from the messages, plus it documents the whole schedule.  Honestly, it really is a helpful tool, her drama aside, so it is a fair and logical solution.   I don't know how old your son is, but this also helped with transitioning to independence for my daughter around 13/14 years old- she desperately needed to feel in control of her activities and life- it became a  problem for my daughter who plays sports with her  and NPD Dad (we are still together and I have been navigating this).  This manifested in some OCD behaviors for my daughter like not letting me put her window down in the car, putting a spoon away that I got for her breakfast and then getting it herself, etc. 

IMO you will not find peace by playing her game, nor should you have to.  Focus on you, not her.  She and your ex may not subscribe to logical thinking or common sense, but you do as well as the other parents too.  Good luck!