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Anyone understand or been through something similar? Sure could use the advise!

Yes I have to deal with this too. It is really hard - the suggestions to go NC are often simple and do not take this into account (in a previous online support group I was screamed at for trying to maintain relationship with a sibling - so glad I found a site that has moderators!) But I often wonder if I should have just stayed in contact with everyone.

It has been a few years and all along I would occasionally try to both assert my boundaries with the N-ish sibling while also trying to reconnect with said sibling (who is parent to my nieces and nephews.) That is all I can do - there is no magic answer.

The only positive I can think of in your situation - in your niece's situation - is that one person said "enough!" when the N-ish behavior went too far and took a hike. Sometimes an npdAdult's behavior gets worse when nobody tells them they've gone too far. You going NC for a while makes one less adult who is enabling the npdParent's abusive behavior. Some day you might be able to get in touch with the nieces.

This stuff is all really hard.
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Working on Us / Re: Self-Reflection--An Exercise in Humility :)
« Last post by blacksheep7 on Today at 01:09:49 PM »
Geko,
Thank you for your kind and reassuring words.  It's nice to hear that I shouldn't feel ashamed because that is the only area in my life (being a parent) that I really have trouble dealing with.  I don't cry about it as much.  You have no idea, or you probably do Geko, is that I feel that I gave my DD what NM enabler, gave to me, invalidation.  That's what really hurts me because I know what it feels like.  I know I have to be less hard on myself and should just be thankful that my DD did well in  life, after all.   Does not suffer from anxiety, panic attacks or depression like I did.  She didn't grow up in abuse like I did either, so it comforts me somehow, although I have tears in my eyes writing this.

I have to share something nice that she told me before moving out at 21.  She said that I was the only mother out of all her friends that didn't do any name calling.   I cried, telling her for the first time about the abuse of name calling in my upbringing and promised myself to never, ever do that to my children.  That was the nicest thing that she could have told me, thinking, well I did something right that had an impact.
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Dealing with PD Elderly Family Members / Re: State of Mind
« Last post by Bloomie on Today at 12:47:35 PM »
Fightsong... popping in to offer this link to a tutorial that has "visuals" to use the quote feature - which have been a big help for me..

http://outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=3153.0

Thanks Practical for letting me crash your thread with this!  :wave:
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Dealing with PD Parents / Re: Medium Chill response ideas
« Last post by Bloomie on Today at 12:43:44 PM »
Quote from: bohemian butterfly
So I guess that I have reached the acceptance stage.  I accept that they did not (do not/will not) have the skills/capability/maturity to love me how I needed to be loved.  I'm OK with this now because now I can reparent myself.  I know that I will lead me down the right path.  It doesn't matter what they do at this point because I will prevail.

I know that they will still push my buttons and I know that I still will face many challenges in the future that I will need help with, but I'm so glad that I was able to pass through the anger phase.  I was so scared that I'd get stuck there.  I'm glad I didn't lash out at my mother (like I really, really wanted to) but that is not me.  I would not be honoring me if I did that.  I would be no better than them if I did that. 

So today I am glad to feel empowered.  Tomorrow I might feel differently but today I feel empowered and that is a heck of a lot better than before. 

Beautiful realizations, acceptance, and and coming back to yourself in all of this. Just loved all that you shared about this process for you, but especially this bit is an extra scoop of goodness! :hug:
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The Welcome Mat / Re: New member. Things got bad last night
« Last post by AlmostGayNow on Today at 12:42:21 PM »
You are in good hands here man, we all support you.

Many men have been through different levels of what you are experiencing

We see you.

We know youíre not crazy.

I read your whole post and I can tell you are a fantastic father.

Chin up, gym up, lawyer up.

Get the healing started.

Stay strong

DONíT RESPOND TO ESCILATIONS

/hugs
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practical, I'm so sorry. Your F is being horrible to you, and even though we are adults and we intellectually know that it's them, not us, and that it's not our fault, and all that other fun stuff, there's still the emotionally vulnerable part of us that just wants our parents to LOVE us, and treat us with love and kindness, to care about us and support us and protect us, to celebrate us on our birthdays, like parents are supposed to do. When they don't, it hurts. Even when we are grown and OOTF and understand about PDs and get that they are incapable of loving us the way a normal parent would, it still hurts. I get it.

My enStepmother did something similar to me on Easter. My kids and I went out of town for the weekend (first Easter we've ever done that, before we always stayed home and hosted Easter brunch and all that jazz, out of "obligation"). My stepmother had told me over and over that she didn't know if she'd be here for Easter, and I was like, fine, we're not going to be here anyway, it was her decision and her business and I didn't care where she was on Easter, she could be in Timbuktu for all I cared. (I didn't tell her that, but it was how I felt. I also think she expected us to not make any Easter plans until she decided to let us know if she would be here, which is why she told me over and over that she wasn't sure where she would be, but I'm done with that kind of stuff. We will do what we want now, without waiting for her permission or feeling any guilt.)

Well, she ended up being here, and she dropped off a card at our home while we were gone. The card was addressed only to "Children", and inside it said (paraphrased) "Hi, Kids' Names, I miss you both and wish you a Happy Easter and I hope I get to see you both very soon." No mention of me, or my husband. I mean, how hard would it have been to write 'Happy Easter to Children, husband, and Terichan"? But no -- she sent the clear message that I don't matter to her, I'm nothing, she missed my CHILDREN and nobody else in my family, with a little dash of "I need to be provided with access to your children soon" tossed in for good measure.

And even though she is only my stepmother and, like you with your F, I pretty much don't give a toss what she thinks of me or how she feels about me, it still stung a little to see that card. She couldn't even write my name, even though I'm the person who's supposed to give her access to my kids, ASAP. Blah. It just sucks.

I'm sorry. But you're doing great and you've come so far Out of the FOG it's amazing. I do think that we will be sad about not having loving parents, probably for the rest of our lives, and we just have to accept that sadness as part of our lives. We may get it intellectually, but that emotional part will never totally go away. Especially when they are trying so hard to rub it in that we don't matter to them. It just sucks.

Happy Birthday, and I hope you enjoyed your cake!!  :hug:
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We don't deviate from the order/trade time ever anymore.  It was too much of a nightmare...BM would take take take...but then if we asked for time she would say, "I asked the kids, they don't want the extra time with you"....and it became a fight, so we never go extra time unless the Parent Coordinator stepped in to even things back out a bit.  Not to mention, our reward for extra time given to BM, was kids returned to us absolutely pissed off at us for whatever "Wrong" BM determined to pin on DH that day.  She would manipulate and "accidentally" buy tickets for something and realize it was our day.  No more- we don't switch for any reason whatsoever. 

This cuts down on the communication issue of asking for things last minute, or saying they asked for time when they didn't, or ignoring your requests for time.  The order is followed, exchanges happen when/where it is dictated in the order...end of story!
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You referred to him as EDad. Is the E for enabler? If so, you might want to talk to him about your relationship with your mother, and the implications for him.

I would have liked to keep contact with my own EF but NM made that impossible. He's dead now. Not trying to be an online flying monkey, just wonder if you really want him out of your life.

Assuming he's not dangerous, could you rehearse one sentence that sums up what you expect of him now?

Yep, E for enabler. He's too enmeshed to get through to. In a sentence, I expect him to get off my proverbial lawn.
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Dealing with PD Parents / Re: The family outcast
« Last post by coyote on Today at 12:24:53 PM »
Good for you Seichen. You are correct about where you were in your journey; "when the student is ready the teacher will appear." (Lao Tzu).
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Dealing with PD In-Laws / Re: Bewilderment
« Last post by Love on Today at 12:21:19 PM »
I totally agree Fergie2,
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I do however honestly believe that if I had seen what was going on earlier, without the decade of being together with DH, he would have left me for an enmeshed PD enabler like his ex gf who was the same cluster B as PDMIL. This is what BIL did, strings of failed relationships never married his baby mamas but then married a woman who was enmeshed with her own parents (Pd in-laws love them of course!) and just like PDMIL. It's gross to even think about how similar SIL is to PDMIL.

If I had done anything but serve and worship DH's parents for over a decade he may have chosen differently.  We were young and at the beginning of our marriage he was deeply enmeshed to the point of making me lie if we "had friends, or saw my family" - he said it "made pd inlaws upset."  I have two sil's that are as well the clone of mil, it is disgusting and scary.  They are evil.  Dh definitely needed time and opportunity to see the dysfunction for himself.  Everyone is so different so I can't determine how much time is enough.  It just came to the point where we were in so much pain, lost and lonely that it slapped you in the face with how wrong his parents are.  Dh lost a lot of time and moments that we will never get back.  So like you silence is not an option.  Waiting to speak is not an option.
I wanted an honest and intimate relationship so communicating on every level about this is necessary to obtain such a relationship.    After all that time, he did have to choose me or them.  They started the process and I nailed the coffin shut for them.  I feel I had no option.    It's like there wasn't enough oxygen and he had to decide to save himself and me or give the mask to his parents and die.  I wish I would have known the freedom on the other side of the fear I had of speaking up.    I spent a lot of time resenting myself because I watched this awful behavior and by saying nothing I was an equal participant in the abuse.  I truly didn't like who I was around them and I will never go back.  Part of not going back is refusing to stay silent.  Thank you for validating me a bit.  I don't ever want to be mean and pd people make you feel like your horrible for having feelings or an opinion.  Emotional abuse is so bewildering because as time goes on you find more and more that you're peeling off and letting go of because the more your around pd people the more we participate in their system to more lost to anything real we become.
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