Hypothetical question....

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boots40

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Hypothetical question....
« on: February 10, 2017, 04:18:07 PM »
If you have 5 children, 4 of which are reasonably successful, professional jobs and nice homes in a good area (not hugely wealthy but have enough to live a comfortable life).  But had 1 child who only works a few hours a week on the minimum wage, with no property or investments....

Would you leave your entire estate to the 1 child who has the least [in your will]?
Or would you share your estate equally?

Curious to know how non PDs would feel.
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Deb2

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 10:29:31 PM »
I would devide it equally. If you left everything to one child, that would be hurtful to the three who are doing well.

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snoflinga

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 11:18:02 PM »
Agreed I would divide it equally. It would cause a lot of hurt feelings if the kids who worked hard and (presumably) loved their parents got cut off in favor of one sibling.

I might consider making a special gift to the one child who was struggling, probably while I was still alive. But no way would I cut the other kids out.

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LeeJane

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2017, 03:54:24 AM »
Equally without doubt. It feels the right thing to do.

PD mum used her Will as weapon to punish us her children. Very common practice in PDs. 

We very easily overturned it when she died and had her assets spilt equally between us.

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boots40

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2017, 06:41:47 AM »
Thanks.  I was just checking my own feelings as I know I am biased.

PD MIL changes her will regularly.  She thinks she is dying because of a diagnosis she has recently been given.

She wants to leave everything to the GC because she doesn't have the same security as the rest of us.  But in the same conversation she wants to H to be an executor and do the eulogy at her funeral.  Its bizarre. 

Its not about the money as any inheritance is divided up among so many people it would be just a small amount, but hurtful to H who has faithfully taken the kids to see her, put up with her tantrums, forgiven her for the childhood neglect, been a general handy man and fixer for her.  Its an emotional blow and will only cause further problems in the future.  (Relationship is already strained between him and his sister).
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Associate of Daniel

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2017, 11:09:38 AM »
I wonder if the will could be set up in a way that the money is held in an account and has to be "applied" for.

So the recipient has to spend money on sensible things (school fees, bills etc.) and then he has to provide receipts to the executor to be reimbursed.

Or perhaps it could be released to the recipient in regular installments instead of a lump sum.

I think this can be done where the recipient is a child. But I'm not sure about adults.

AOD

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notrightinthehead

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2017, 01:04:16 PM »
I would need further information. Why is the one child in dire straits? Is she handicapped? Then yes, I would provide more for her.

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boots40

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2017, 02:23:36 PM »
No - no disabilities.  She has no property or investments of her own.  Her husband supports her almost entirely.  If her husband died tomorrow she would only get half of his estate (the other half shared among his children from a previous marriage).  This wouldn't be enough to buy a house or support her for more than say 7-10 years (guess).  So the parent wants to give the house to her when she dies, so that when her daughter's  husband dies (he is considerably older than her with health problems) she will have some security of her own.   However, she only works part time and on the minimum wage - she has a history of quitting jobs and isn't a stable character (i.e hot headed, going from one thing to the next, not sticking at education or training, bpd traits imo). 
"What you say about me isn't nearly as bad as what I know about you"

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notrightinthehead

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 03:13:11 PM »
Even though I would try to be as fair fair as possible and divide as equally as possible between my children, I feel that everybody should have the right to pass on their property as they see fit. Even if this is unfair or unjust, if they have a favourite child or want to give all to the church, it is their choice and I try to respect it, even if I do not agree with their choices.

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boots40

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2017, 05:16:20 PM »
I would never suggest someone didn't have the right to leave their property to whoever they choose, I was curious as to whether the hypothetical question is a 'normal' thing to do with those particular circumstances.

My own view ----Initially I thought it was a terrible thing to do and guaranteed that the already dodgy relationship siblings have with the less off child will probably deteriorate to zero.  I also think it is going to cause a lot of resentment to those children who actually do the lion share of the caring.

But later I did wonder....if my own child had very little security...would I do the same?  There is 50% of me that understands even if I don't agree with it.  I also wonder if this is another red flag for a personality disorder, like another piece of the jigsaw.
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Whiteheron

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2017, 12:16:48 PM »
We have this in our extended family. One sibling doesn't do much to get ahead, relies on the generosity of others, is constantly complaining of no money, etc. despite receiving a monthly paycheck (minimum wage + food stamps). Upon further examining her finances, it seems that any time she gets her hands on some extra $$ she immediately blows it on whomever the flavor of the month is (cheated on her husband and is now happily single). She is completely irresponsible with her money and possessions to the point her parents are extremely worried about what happens to her share of their assets upon their death. They don't want to see it in the hands of whomever she happens to be dating at the time. They had to set up a type of trust with a lawyer that involves doling out a certain amount each month until it runs out.

They want to help her more than her siblings because of her living situation, but are reluctant to do so because she has proven herself unable to act responsible around money. I'm not sure what they decided to do in terms of percentage to each adult child, but I think they decided the house will be passed on to the more responsible sibling and sold since they don't want her to get ahold of it and destroy it through negligence.

Tricky spot, because there is an imbalance in terms of quality of life between the siblings, but she is responsible for choosing the path she's on and they recognize this.
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DJR

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2017, 12:16:12 AM »
Hi everyone, interesting discussion.

Thinking about the one child who hasn't done anything to provide for themselves: isn't expecting and relying on others generosity a PD entitlement trait?  I'm also thinking of grandiosity: where they spend money on ridiculous grand things to increase the perception of their high social status, but can't pay the electricity bill 

My thought would be to divide estate equally. For the reason that it appears to bestow more "love" on one child than the others.

I have seen a similar issue play out in my in-law family, where my hardworking and forward thinking H as the SG of the family recieves only token gestures, but his GC brother is constantly being helped financially, despite having a higher income than us. My H doesn't expect financial help, but he sometimes feels like his parents care more about his brother than him, and reward his poor decisions.

Another thought is that one's estate should be kept discrete, no need to curry favour by talking about changing it all the time. Just write the thing up and leave it with the lawyer!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 12:22:25 AM by DJR »

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VeryUncertain

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Re: Hypothetical question....
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 10:17:50 AM »
I think the question is too easy.  Consider the following:

To simplify: one parent, P and 2 two children, C1 and C2.  What has been discussed so far, C1 is good for nothing but not abused (in a way C2 was not,) and not disabled and C2 is doing ok.  I think the consensus is split evenly.

But here are some additional situations:

1. What if C1 WAS abused or neglected and that this is the source of C1's behavior?  Does this matter? 

2. To complicate this, what if P is uPD and P BELIEVES FALSELY that C1 was mistreated because C1 is GC and C2 is the SG?  How WILL uPD P split the money?  How SHOULD uPD P split the money?

3. What if C1 and C2 are both doing well, but C2 is somewhat (or much) better off?  Does this matter?  i.e. the money doesn't matter to either one, it's the message.  How to split?

I think 1-3 are still fairly easy, and "even split" is probably the right answer, and that uPD P who believes C1 is GC will not split evenly. but:

4. What if C2 (caretaker) has been taking care of P for many years (say 10+), while C1 has done nothing?  Or similarly, what if, ALL P's money was given to P by C2? i.e. P has money ONLY because C2 has been helping P by giving P money directly or indirectly by having P live in C2's home for many years. C1 has never given anything and C1 steadfastly refused to pitch in. 

Now P has $100k left.  How should P split that money? 

i.e. All the money / all the taking care came from C2, and C2 is doing well and:
a. C1 is a deadbeat; or
b. C1 is doing well. 

What SHOULD P do?  What will uPD P do if C1 is GC and C2 the SG?