PD relatives that want to be celebs...?

[FugitiveDaughter]

This is a difficult topic for me but I felt I needed to ask if anyone is dealing with a problem this caliber? I'm talking about a person with possible PD (and possible something else as well) who is not just acting out in the normal life but is intent on making themself a celebrity and has perhaps even succeeded in it somewhat?

Without going into specifics, I have someone in my immediate family who is doing precisely this. And I'm not ashamed to say it here that I'm embarrassed by this person. It's because this person is possibly even hurting my chances of succeeding professionally because of the weird image that person portrays. The person used to have a normal job before something happened and now I'm forced to watch that person (and that person's "followers") parade around building an image and spewing crazy stuff in public.

I'm often being asked how I feel about the things this person has accomplished and the stuff the person does and I try not to comment in any way. I don't want to support the craziness and on the other hand I don't want to completely sever the ties to this person at this point (part of the reason being this person's kids who I worry about). But it is frustrating as heck.

What can you do? Is there anything you can do? Do I have to support whatever that person is doing and thinking about things just because of family ties? Am I the only one who has a person like this in the family? We're not keeping that much contact right now because this person disapproves of my views on things and my reluctance at openly support the person. In any case, this person usually only has contacted me when in need of something from me, so... Not really a surprise that this person was a GC and is now the source of pride to the NPD parent.

[FugitiveDaughter]

Ok, so I realize it's not a very common problem. I was a bit foolish to think it was something people could relate to but I just felt I needed to talk to someone about this. 

[MLR]

They sound very strange. 

I suppose if people question you about relative you could give them a blank look and act like you don't know anything about relatives activities.   You've been busy living your life and working and doing this that and the other thing.  Say "oh they are doing/ saying X?"  Act bewildered that they think you should care about what Relative is doing.  Same attitude you would have if a young person is shocked you are not agog at what big name actor who is starring in the latest horror movie is up to.

If you can pull it off it might help.  Or you could call whatever relative is doing "Performance Art" and critique it's artistic merits.

[lifeline]

I think MLR has the right idea, pretend it's outside your life's radar scope.

Brush it off, like "oh, I don't follow so-n-so's twitter feed, or fan page", or "Hmm, someone mentioned that to me recently too, I never did look into it/ ask FM about it"  Or "Yeah, FM is so busy these days, I just can't keep up!"

Little hard to give real examples without details, and I'd never ask for them, I get it, maybe try gray-rock for the inquisitions you receive (shrug, "mmhm", "eh", whatever the most boring as possible answer), as well as for the family member.

If you are really in a position to give tangible responses, go political on them. Neutral sentences that don't indicate you have an opinion either way.

Is there any opportunity to maybe re-locate if you really worry your career is potentially at stake?  I don't typically condone that kind of thing, but in some cases, it may be the better choice.

Wishing you peace, and no paparazzi!

[FugitiveDaughter]

It actually is because I've made a brave move earlier and we don't live in the same country anymore which is great.  My relatives weren't the main reason for it but I just have to say I am very much enjoying the distance. 

Now I only hope this person will not be able to "break through" in other places as the next plan is to be famous in other countries as well. Cringe. If only it was something "normal" but no. We're talking miracles and magic sort of stuff.  You can just guess how happy this person is of all the attention, endless supply every day! 

[sandpiper]

I've had reason to be mortified by things that my family do in public & in some cases in contravention of the law & the morals & standards that I have chosen to embrace.
I too have a relative in the public eye but thankfully very few people know we are related. I do live with the time-bomb factor of wondering if this person's lack of boundaries will ever extend to causing personal distress to me by disclosing stuff which I consider to be private, but apparently there are laws in my country which protect the ordinary Joe & Joeline from their personal lives being thrown under media scrutiny.
I have some stock phrases which I roll out to discourage conversation about the Mortifiers.
'We are very different people and as we aren't close I'm not in a position to comment on his/her personal life.'
'I don't follow social media/or insert name of this person's circus act here.'
'You can't choose your family but you can choose not to be like them, can't you?'
I'm sorry you're going through this, I've been there with that knot of angt thinking 'OMG how is this person's behaviour going to impact on what people think of me?'
I try to remember the line from Pride & Prejudice where Mr. Bennett tells Lizzy that nobobdy worth knowing will think any less of her & her elder sister for having a set of very silly sisters.
It is true, you know.

[FugitiveDaughter]

I had to dig this topic back up again since I can't stop thinking about  the way my childhood family has disintegrated. I wonder what my late dad would think of the situation now. He'd probably feel hurt about the way my mother is actively gaslighting and trying to get rid of his memory but I also know he'd be upset about the way one of my siblings is acting too. Never, ever in my wildest dreams could I have imagined the level of surreal my life would enter... I feel there's not even a support group for people who have to deal with madness of this level. There's groups for people whose relative has joined a cult but none for people whose relative has basically started one. Has anyone else ever heard the words "were you aware your sibling is a guru" from your mother's mouth...? Well I have.

It is clear to me my GC sibling is cut from the same rotten wood as his mother. Mother dearest defends GC's views and is now fiercely proud of him being in the public eye, publishing books, being on TV... It's sick. And it's not something revolutionary or exceptionally clever, what my sibling is talking is clearly word salad that means nothing. There's always the followers though who don't understand what he's saying but wanting to appear clever, they claim everything he says is genius. I went straight into NM's bait last night and answered her cryptic message. I shouldn't have as she spent an hour trying to prove to me how my sibling is basically the messiah people worship, gloated on the fact she was thanked in the foreword of his book (well, the parents were, the siblings weren't mentioned at all  )... Needless to say whatever I accomplish is quickly brushed away by changing the topic. She wouldn't even let me finish my sentences at times, that's how agitated she was.

Can I just be adopted by a normal family...? I feel ashamed my family is so dysfunctional and crazy. Thank god for my husband because if I didn't have him keeping me sane, I might go crazy. I also feel my childhood family is getting crazier each day. I've even wondered if Covid has attacked their brains!    Gone are the days when I could call my family and they'd talk like normal people (dad)... I'm happy though that I have some more distant relatives that seem to have a good head on their shoulders and I feel so much better being in touch with them (they don't know the situation I have fully but I'm thinking they've noticed some crazy shit going on...).

P.S. Which one is the correct person to contact if you need therapy because of your family? I have seen a psychologist earlier for unrelated issues and also a psychiatrist but not sure which one could help me. I clearly need to talk to someone and not burden my husband. I've asked my psychiatrist if he knows but I'm not sure he can... reading his website it seems he's part of the new school of psychiatrist that now believe NPD can be cured somehow or at least they are trying to develop therapy for it. I fear he's going to say they're fine and and the problem is me.

[Hepatica]

Dear FugitiveDaughter,

I don't have experience in what you are going thru exactly, except I have a number of family members who are pushy, magical thinkers and I think these qualities should be added to the DSM for Cluster B's. They believe they can make anything happen with their thoughts and they think their way of believing is the only way. I am a pretty grounded person so I find this uncomfortable at best and on bad days I feel like I've lost half of my family. Lots of grief there.

I really recommend grey rocking to the MAX. Be a boring old grey rock with your mom and this specific family member when they reach out to you. Just listen, don't offer any opinion, just say, yeah, yeah, that's interesting... etc.  These people tend to be very thin skinned. I made the biggest mistake of my life about five years ago by sharing my opinion of what they were doing. I was not happy with them bc they work like a cult together and force their opinions on people and I think it's arrogant and embarrassing. I didn't use those words but I shared that I was dismayed by something they did at an uncle's funeral. I've been scapegoated ever since. I wish I had just known that you cannot do this with people like this. They are locked in to what they believe and my words just made me a target and made them band together and become even more entrenched in their behaviour.

Keep yourself safe. Seek a therapist who is trained in trauma and personality disorders. Understand that you are grieving big loss here. Sit back and observe but don't involve yourself. It's an exercise in letting go. I am working on it daily. It really helps to have a few friends who understand and a good therapist.

Oh, I wanted to add that I think we are living in super dramatic times. With Covid now esp. and all the other worries of this world, we are living in a massive climate of fear. I think the disordered people are feasting on it. What do they love most, drama! I am doing everything I can to stay grounded, with mindfulness meditation and walks in nature. I cannot get swept up by this craziness. It triggers me daily and it's so so challenging. You're not alone. It's in so many of our families, in different ways, but i can only imagine how much harder it is when your sibling becomes a celebrity. UGH!! I feel for you.

[sandpiper]

I'm sorry that you're going through this. It is tough. My celebrity relative is doing his usual Xmas attention-seeking thing and it is incredibly frustrating watching them promote their artificial reality. I keep reminding myself not to let that rent space in my head, that I control the narrative to the story of my life, and while I can't control what that dippy family do, I can control how I react to it. It is incredibly frustrating watching the media buy into it & I quite often will get snappy & say 'We don't have investigative journalists in this country, we have celebrity enablers.'
Mine has made some outlandish claims that are easily checkable if you consult someone knowledgable in the field. I found it reassuring to talk to one (via email) as his father's work has been quoted by my relative. I explained that I think my relative has BPD/NPD and believes his own stories and I wound up having a really insightful discussion with that particular person (a journalist of some acclaim in another country). That was helpful to me as I got validation from the source and because I spoke to someone who was smart and compassionate and empathic, he understood on some level about mental illness. I would imagine that within his own circles they do some quiet eye-rolling and they just let it go. The world is full of cray-cray and as Hepatica said, the pandemic seems to be ramping up the drama in those who particularly seem to relish that.
As for a therapist - do a google search on psychologists who specialise in treating trauma, and intergenerational trauma. Initially when I was a youngster & I first went to therapy, I lucked out and found a practice with a group of therapists who did Gestalt and Transactional Analysis. They recognised the destructive PD behaviour in my family but encouraged me to focus on rebuilding my own life with healthier people in it, and learning to set strong and healthy boundaries with FOO. I've seen a few different therapists since then, as other issues have arisen, and those that were most helpful were the ones who had a PD relative or sibling and they had personal experience of what we go through. My psychologist had a sister with NPD and she told me that she treated quite a few families where there was an NPD - usually a male celebrity (actors and sports stars). She said that she did treat the NPDs but in her experience they don't change. Her motivation to have them in her office was to let them vent and rage and carry on so that she could develop a better understanding of what the partners and children were dealing with. From what she was saying to me, she knew of the treatment protocols for NPD and her colleagues had much the same attitude to it that she did. Get them into your office because while you may not be able to change them, you'll get a much clearer idea of what they are doing to their families. And the thing to bear in mind is that Narcissism exists on a spectrum, so you'll find that some of them are simply never going to change, whereas the ones who have simply learned that behaviour within their family & WANT to change, are probably going to make some progress.
I don't think a psychiatrist is necessarily going to be all that helpful.
FWIW I think a lot of us here have had to do a lot of DIY by reading and learning to understand the behaviours. Some of the books in the Tools here are probably going to give you a lot of insight, very quickly. I liked the books by Harriet Lerner as I had to really work on letting go. There's a saying about co-dependence that when someone who is codependent dies, someone else's life flashes through their eyes, not their own life, because they've been so focussed on the trouble that's being caused by the problematic person in their life.
My psychologist in group T gave us all an exercise to do. It was a meditation/visualisation which they call 'the life boat' and its basically, if your ship is sinking and you have to throw cargo overboard to keep your ship afloat, or you have to push people into life boats or life vests so that you don't have to worry about them while you save the boat, who will that be? The other exercise is to think 'If the people in your life who have these problems were suddenly, magically cured and better and living healthy lives tomorrow, what would you be doing with your life?' The idea is to shift your focus away from the problematic person and recognise that they are free to do whatever they want with this life, and you need to start seeing what you are avoiding by allowing them to distract you.
Reading is a great supplement to therapy & my feeling is that you might get a lot from reading Beverly Engel's 'The emotionally abusive relationship.'
The other thing that has helped me is looking at how relatives of celebrity narcissists have coped with it. There are plenty of malignant narcissists in acting, music, the church, politics, sports, and I looked for the ones who really pressed my hot buttons and then I searched out books by the relatives who'd had to deal with their smear campaigns. I found some amazing people who express themselves with grace, compassion, insight, and extraordinary emotional intelligence.
The thing about having a celebrity PD in your family is really just that they have a much bigger megaphone and a much bigger band of nutty followers.
You are never going to persuade the followers that the person they worship is Caligula. One of the most important things a mental health worker ever told me is that the PD will find a group of people as off-balance as he or she is, to prop up their reality.
Not my circus, Not my monkeys, is a good mantra to repeat to yourself.
It's tough.
But it is worth doing the hard work to heal, so that anyone who meets you is going to see immediately that you are nothing like the relative who causes you so much distress. And it is incredibly hurtful and damaging when your family and society decide they're going to put the PD on the pedestal and put you in the shade.
It is a journey to heal and your path won't be the same as mine. I do think it's helpful to follow posts here of those who have FOO with similar behaviours, as it's good to know you aren't alone.
I'm not here that much anymore. The holiday season has drawn me back because OMG PDs and the festive season - but one thing I did learn about my celebrity PD is that his behaviours are exactly the same as the ones that don't manage to gather a nation wide following.
I hope that helps.