The pastor will rebuke and kick me out if i dont explain separation and submit

  • 27 Replies
  • 1707 Views
*

tommom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1316
Upstream, I have followed your story with a lot of empathy, but really didn't have anything to add until now. One of the problems I have had with leaving my PDh was the belief (fervant prayer) that God would "fix" my h's PD. 

I wanted to say something now, if I may. You are very right about his current "state of mind".  In my church, our archbishop's testimony includes the fact that  God healed him of a mental illness - don't know what type it was- but his wife is psychologist, by the way. But he has been very specific in saying that it was because he wanted so desperately to be healed. I don't believe that is true for my H or yours. They want everything else to change, but not themselves. Yours sounds like -with the manipulations, etc. -he has no interest in changing either. I am an Episcopalian, but I know other denominations also confess their sins before they take communion, for example. We are saved through repentance. God expects us to admit out wrongdoings before he acts. It sounds like the it is the furterest thing from your h's mind. Sadly, as much as my husband cries and feels victimized, it seems impossible for him to accept that he has made these problems, not me (or the rest of the universe).

I wish you the best. Hope you find a wonderful church home.
"It is not my job to fix other people; everyone is on their own journey."

*

Spring Butterfly

  • Spring Butterfly
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 14502
  • Says who? Really says who? Question everything.
    • FOG vs Love
Upstream, I'm somewhat familiar with the situation you are facing and am sad other women in the community also suffer this way. One scripture I cannot get past is Matthew 19:9 where Jesus clearly gives grounds for leaving due to fornication. In the original Greek the scripture was written in this means all forms of illicit sexual behavior apart from ones mate.

While I understand how some churches try to explain that away, the original Greek and the verse applies to marriage as is clear from the verse and the context.

The marriage is sacred and I do understand why attempts within reason would be made to preserve it but there are also limits and boundaries to keeping it sacred by both parties. Your marriage was not sacred to your husband. Matt 5:28 says to even look at another with passion is to commit adultery in one's heart.

You are right to look for signs of repentance 1 Corinthians 5:11 tells us clearly not to be involved with those who don't show repentance.

One book that helped me feel comfortable that boundaries and limits have God's backing is the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. It's full of Scripture references that helped me see things clearly. My situation is different but I also needed a graceful exit out of my community. Wishing you peace and freedom in God's grace.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 04:01:57 PM by Spring Butterfly »
Each and every contact with a PD person results in damage. Plan accordingly and make time to heal. See Toolbox for tips. "The right word may be effective, but no word was ever as effective as a rightly timed pause." Mark Twain

*

Rubytown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 771
Hi Upstream,

It sounds like you are handling this very well.  You are a strong and smart woman.  It sounds like things are moving in a better direction if he is willing to go to a new church to give the impression of "moving forward."  And yes, I wouldn't get too attached at your new one either, since he will be around to start a smear campaign.  It is hard to imagine he will back out and leave you to worship in peace.  Besides, it sounds like that may be one of few points of contact he has with you now, so it doesn't seem he would want to give that up.

I think it's imperative that you remember your relationship with God is yours alone and don't get human failings mixed up with your faith.  You need to be able to turn to God more than ever while going through all this. 

Blessings and Prayers,
Ruby
Ellis Boy 'Red' Redding: "Hope is a dangerous thing my friend, it can kill a man..."
Andy Dufresne: [in letter to Red] "Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."
-The Shawshank Redemption

*

1footouttadefog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1467
There are many rules about marriage and they are often reacted in the many vows most couples make.

As others have pointed out fornication, lust, going after the unnatural desires, are all part of it.

Do remember that your relationship is with God first and not the church.  Also remember its God's rules you need to be mindful of not mans.  A great many things in the Mennonite Community are tradition and are believed to help the community live more morally, but their are not specifically mandated by scripture.

You know if your marriage is abusive.  Your spouse is asking you to go against Biblical church discipline guidelines and it seems church leadership is willing to go along with it as well as gossip about it all.

You can be free of abuse from both fronts and still know God.

*

Totallytickedoff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 431
I would run like the wind from this church. You owe no one an explanation. I'm sorry this is even an issue for you. Your conscience should be clean!!  :sadno:

*

Rubytown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • 771
Hi Upstream

I wonder how you're doing?  I remember you from when I first found OOTF.  You were such a help and encouragement to me then.  I hope things are going better.  You are in a terribly difficult situation.

Love,
Ruby
Ellis Boy 'Red' Redding: "Hope is a dangerous thing my friend, it can kill a man..."
Andy Dufresne: [in letter to Red] "Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."
-The Shawshank Redemption

*

Upstream

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 450
Hi all,
It has taken me some time to work through this whole church leaving ordeal. I found a new church and told my uPdh that i would leave with or without him. I reminded him that by staying, he would continue to be at risk of exposure bc the elders would want an explanation if we didnt reconcile. By getting him toagree to leave with me, the witch hunt for me was called off, since i was leaving together with my husband. The only reason he did it was to avoid exposure. I was just glad to be out without reprimand so that my job is secure, at least for now.

 This has certainly been quite a Trumatic experience for me. I did not see this coming with the church. It's a terrible terrible thing to have gone through. As you all know.

 I can't even put into words how grateful I am to you all for your support during this really hard time for me. I don't think I could've made it without you!

142757,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply! You are so right!! The bible isn't a cure all and does help us to endure!! It is impt. to understand that, i believe.  And it helps to feel understood about how excrutiating spiritual oppressiveness can be for a believing person.

Liftinfog,
I think you are right that they wouldnt be able to understand, even if i explained it. And in fact, i think anything i do say would be used against me!

Hi Tommom,
I have been so grateful for your many posts , so full of truth. Yes, our husbands want to "have" a wife (and mine, his children), but they dont want to "be" a husband ( or in my case, a father) . It is hard to remember that all their pleading and whining is because they cant recieve more than the  already unfair amount that they get!

Spring butterfly,
Thank you so much for that very helpful clarification about sexual impurity. This, as you seem to know, has been a major stumbling block for me. And I do feel cheated on and betrayed, so while some people might not consider serious, it is good to know that others do!

Hi 1foot!
Yes, you are right! I really believe it is crucial, not just for me, but for my children as well, to remember that our faith is based on our relationship with God, not some misguided person who calls himself the pastor! 

Dear Ruby,
Old friend! I have been glad to hear that things have improved so much for you and i continue to hope with you for sustanied contentment in your life. Thanks so much for checking in on me and caring for me and so many here on this forum!


*

jujumonkey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 288
Upstream - Do you want help from the church elders? Do you want to stay in this congregation? Is it usually a place of support and comfort for you and your son? If the answer is no to these questions then I would not hesitate to move on to a new church creating a clean slate for you and your son and a finding a place where you are cared for and your H has no history or place there.

Putting aside what the church elders or other ones in the congregation think or say - your faith community is for you and for your support and growth and going somewhere where your H has a long history, and I am assuming deep roots and some kind of standing in this community, may not be in your best interest anyway.

I have never found that this type of a system is very good at putting the needs of the abused first. It seems that often times the abused in the relationship is forced to reconcile without any kind of sincere and proven repentance and true change demonstrated over time.

Often it seems if the "right" words are said by the cheater or abuser then that is enough indication for those who are putting themselves in the position to make huge decisions over other people's lives. Ultimately, the elders do not have to live with the issues your H has, you do. They do not have to suffer as you and your son have.

They cannot make you do anything that is not right and healthy for you and you do not owe anyone an explanation. If you want their help and trust them to have everyone's best interest in mind, then you will need to lay the entire truth out there and reveal the depths of issues you are dealing with in your marriage.

Absolutely true.  There is a site called Crying Out for Justoce that talks about this.  The church wants it to be smoothed over and wants reconciliation at the cost of people's health and well being because of a few slicks words from an abuser.