Constant Questions

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mdana

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2017, 10:30:50 PM »
I have heard some say ...
we are the opppsite coin of the narcissistic personality ...so, we "match up" almost perfectly and attract one another. They are inflated...we are deflated.

I always felt my ex was looking for a "mommy". He needed a solid attachment to someone that would always ...always forgive, soothe, make up for his deficits (I was his moral compass). The mother he never had.  I, on the other hand only knew how to be the ultra adult...caretaker...carrying everyone's cross... rushing to bear all the burdens (cause I believed that if I didn't, no one would).

That was then though ...

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 09:50:45 AM »
AM
True....she may be attempting to continue the conversation just to drag him into a circular argument.  Some people thrive on the drama of that kind of thing .

It's funny last time we were talking I even said that. Something like "do we both need or like this because we keep doing it?" and it never goes anywhere or never gets resolved."

I have been reading a lot  about codependency and why I allow this or what I am missing. It is helping but it's a long road I think. I know yesterday I was on the couch not even really thinking of her and I burst out in tears and said "I really can't save her" I was alone by the way. It just hit me, no matter what happened or will happen I want to be her hero or her savior in a weird way. It's a mix of neediness and arrogance mixed in with her ability to know how to press my buttons. 

I am really getting a lot of out all your responses. Thank you

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 09:56:14 AM »
As I found with my situation she will be wanting to ensure she leaves you with all the blame for whatever happened.  By continuing the discussion (which will only continue forever in a circular argument with no resolution) you are letting her achieve this.  She will be doing this because:
- she has no self awareness or concept of the things she did to contribute
- even if she did she will never take responsibility for them
- she will need to play the victim to reinforce her own beliefs about herself - I.e. "Everybody leaves me for no reason"

Think of what you know of her past relationships - was it ever her fault?

You will be wanting to respond in the hope she will understand your reasoning, won't see you as the bad guy and will reflect and take responsibity for her actions.  But she won't do that so it's not worth it.  Unfortunately you will always be the bad guy now in her eyes.  I get that's hard because it's one of the hardest things I've found to deal with, it just feels so unfair.

Having said all that I don't know your ex.....but lm pretty confident I do.... because I knew mine!

Yes for someone who seeks approval being the "bad guy" in the woman I have loved more than anyone outside of family hurts.

" she will need to play the victim to reinforce her own beliefs about herself - I.e. "Everybody leaves me for no reason"
---You hit the nail on the head, we all have our own "story" or "beliefs about themselves" I think for me is maybe that "I cant make a relationship work" or "A woman wouldn't want to be with me long term"

So I tried and tried and failed(some of it my doing, some of it hers) and it just reinforces my narrow beliefs about myself.

The goal is to expand the view of my "story or self belief" so I can heal and move on.

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 10:00:10 AM »
All this is true.

The unpalatable truth though is that all PDs are emotionally stunted, in early childhood. They are not adults in the proper sense.  They act an adult, (get married, children,job etc ) but its not authentic , as they never grew up , its impossible for them to do so. The strain to conform in an adult world  is too much and they "act out" in infantile ways with their nearest and dearest with whom its safest, sometimes work colleagues and friends.   


Reasonable adults... can dialogue, problem solve, let go with love. Those things are not true of someone with a PD.  They are often NOT reasonable, or fair minded, they have difficulty with empathy for others, introspection, and truthfulness, authenticity, moral/ethical principles, responsibility...

/quote]

 :yeahthat:  Like a child basically

So why did you fall for a child?? This is the really painful bit.  Dont i know it!! Constantly analyzing the other stops you from introspection and true insight.

Reasonable secure confident mature adults usually get attracted to like minded people. They will see through a pd fairly quickly. ( The pd is also likely to be initimidated by such a person as they are unnerved by their maturity. They will feel enormous strain to act normally. Theyre neurosis isnt being cared for by the other partner).They will sense somethings not quite right .

Very observant and good points. I think I fell for mine for 2 reasons

1. I am childlike in my development as well. Sure, I can reason and take blame but my boundaries were never developed and I have a hard time managing my own emotions that I allowed her to take the driver seat for my happiness and fulfillment

2. She is sexy. No just kidding, well of course that was part of it. But she has 3 kids and I was amazed at how good she was with them. She seemed very "together" and confident.

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waking up

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 10:33:26 AM »
Mrstring
I read your first post and I see that your ex has substance abuse problems,is paranoid about you cheating, and has cheated herself.

I wouldnt be surprised if she using these questions as a way to make you feel guilty and to pull you back in, especially if you do feel this need to be a hero and save her. PDs are good at seeing those qualities in others and exploiting those qualities.

Perhaps consider going totally NC.  You don't have kids together, so could that be an option?

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2017, 10:35:03 AM »
I have heard some say ...
we are the opppsite coin of the narcissistic personality ...so, we "match up" almost perfectly and attract one another. They are inflated...we are deflated.

I always felt my ex was looking for a "mommy". He needed a solid attachment to someone that would always ...always forgive, soothe, make up for his deficits (I was his moral compass). The mother he never had.  I, on the other hand only knew how to be the ultra adult...caretaker...carrying everyone's cross... rushing to bear all the burdens (cause I believed that if I didn't, no one would).

That was then though ...

😍

Yes, although it was not quite so cut and dry, she was very caring and giving, always picking up clothes for me and was very comforting, mother like, although I am very close with my mom, so I was not looking for a mother but I loved my ex's warmth in many areas. But she was also very irresponsible and I found myself trying to play catch up more and more.

I also, due to my codependency, for lack of a better label also harmful due to my "caretaking"

For example yesterday she sent a text saying her neck hurt and she was having a hard time getting the dogs off the bed.

My reaction, if any should have been "I am sorry you are going through a tough morning, what are you going to do?"

Instead it was "what about this neighbor? or "try this or try that" or maybe call the non emergency police number if you need medical assistance...etc"

Even when she doesn't ask I am always trying to make her problems, my problems and it caused things to get worse.

Not taking relationship blame from her, just trying to identify my part so I don't repeat it.

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2017, 10:52:34 AM »
Mrstring
I read your first post and I see that your ex has substance abuse problems,is paranoid about you cheating, and has cheated herself.

I wouldnt be surprised if she using these questions as a way to make you feel guilty and to pull you back in, especially if you do feel this need to be a hero and save her. PDs are good at seeing those qualities in others and exploiting those qualities.

Perhaps consider going totally NC.  You don't have kids together, so could that be an option?

Going NC would be advised. You are correct. We do have dogs and it is tough, but at the end of the day they will never be "my" dogs again, I may see them even if I don't see her, but it's not the same. My therapist and anyone else says I should go NC.

I think she is pulling me back in for money and not be with again.

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2017, 10:54:51 AM »
I have heard some say ...
we are the opppsite coin of the narcissistic personality ...so, we "match up" almost perfectly and attract one another. They are inflated...we are deflated.

I always felt my ex was looking for a "mommy". He needed a solid attachment to someone that would always ...always forgive, soothe, make up for his deficits (I was his moral compass). The mother he never had.  I, on the other hand only knew how to be the ultra adult...caretaker...carrying everyone's cross... rushing to bear all the burdens (cause I believed that if I didn't, no one would).

That was then though ...

😍

Yes, although it was not quite so cut and dry, she was very caring and giving, always picking up clothes for me and was very comforting, mother like, although I am very close with my mom, so I was not looking for a mother but I loved my ex's warmth in many areas. But she was also very irresponsible and I found myself trying to play catch up more and more.

I also, due to my codependency, for lack of a better label also harmful due to my "caretaking"

For example yesterday she sent a text saying her neck hurt and she was having a hard time getting the dogs off the bed.

My reaction, if any should have been "I am sorry you are going through a tough morning, what are you going to do?"

Instead it was "what about this neighbor? or "try this or try that" or maybe call the non emergency police number if you need medical assistance...etc"

Even when she doesn't ask I am always trying to make her problems, my problems and it caused things to get worse.

Not taking relationship blame from her, just trying to identify my part so I don't repeat it.

I saw this on a website. whatiscodependency.com

I don't agree with the "names" being used caretaker or caretaker, I just take it as healthy vs unhealthy giving.


Caretaker

Sacrifices selfSelf-righteous – puts own opinion first
Helping is compulsive

Feels responsible for others before self

Crosses boundaries with unsolicited advice

Is judgmental

Knows what’s best for others

Gives with strings attached or expectations

Feels exhausted, irritated, frustrated, anxious

Feels unappreciated or resentful

Discourages others from thinking for themselves

Uses nonassertive, pushy, judging, “you” statements

Tries to control recipient

Caregiver
Practices self-care

Respects others’ opinions

Helping is volitional

Feels responsible for self and to others

Respect boundaries. Waits to be asked for advice

Feels love and empathy

Knows what’s best for self

Gives freely without expectations

Feels energized

Doesn’t take others’ actions personally

Encourages others to solve their own problems

Uses assertive “I” statements

Supports recipient

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hellobliss123

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2017, 10:57:35 AM »
Mrstring
I don't know the details of your relationship.. .but having left a man who lied to me , and who I suspect cheated on me, I know how it feels to be left wondering what was real and what wasn't.

I did try to get some answers from my ex (figured I was at least entitled to the truth after 30 years) but my exhusband would never admit to anything. He just used my questions as a way to further gaslight me...example "I can't answer that because I don't remember it- your memory must be freakishly good if you can remember that!"  *This*  from a man who remember the route he took on a 1982 road trip....

I have no idea if this relates to your situation at all, just that I know that feeling of needing validation from your ex, and the ex withholding that information.

I just wanted to share I did this to. (Maybe the better word is "admit.) I texted my OCDPxh/susNPD  to ask how he could be so cruel. To tell him he broke my heart with how he treated me and I needed help putting the pieces together. (strangely, I was the one to leave.) It felt like a game to him. I only did it a couple of times and I've stopped.

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2017, 11:03:44 AM »
Mrstring
I don't know the details of your relationship.. .but having left a man who lied to me , and who I suspect cheated on me, I know how it feels to be left wondering what was real and what wasn't.

I did try to get some answers from my ex (figured I was at least entitled to the truth after 30 years) but my exhusband would never admit to anything. He just used my questions as a way to further gaslight me...example "I can't answer that because I don't remember it- your memory must be freakishly good if you can remember that!"  *This*  from a man who remember the route he took on a 1982 road trip....

I have no idea if this relates to your situation at all, just that I know that feeling of needing validation from your ex, and the ex withholding that information.

I just wanted to share I did this to. (Maybe the better word is "admit.) I texted my OCDPxh/susNPD  to ask how he could be so cruel. To tell him he broke my heart with how he treated me and I needed help putting the pieces together. (strangely, I was the one to leave.) It felt like a game to him. I only did it a couple of times and I've stopped.

Wow, what timing, just this morning she texted me asking me how I could be so cruel. she said "damn you are cruel"

She had me wired I guess and it was "proved" according to her that I did and said all of these awful things. Of course I didn't. AT WORST I spoke to my brother about my frustration with her and how she doesn't trust me.

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mdana

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2017, 11:04:26 AM »
Yes...I completely understand.  BTW, I have a daughter that has PD's and addictions.

And, as I have thought about it on a deeper level, I have concluded that ...when we  rush in to 'help' or solve someone's problems too quickly, we take away an opportunity for them to grow and learn to care for themselves (solve their own problem).  Basically what we are saying (without words) is ..."I don't believe you know how to do this, find a solution...let me tell you".  Yet... part of developing self-esteem and confidence comes from learning how to solve our own problems, knowing that we know how to. Sometimes we really DO need advise/help. But... not always and we also need to learn to ASK.

Pema Chodron -- says we tend to want to enable others or rescue, because WE are unable to tolerate the discomfort (our own emotional pain) of watching someone else suffer.  So...we rush to relieve OUR pain.  Not theirs.

I have learned that there is a space in-between empathy...and rescuing.  We can have empathy and show support, without rescuing or solving the problem (OR assuming the role of 'teacher/parent').  The 51% rule applies too... It's a good idea to take care (and/or) notice your needs first... Then, set healthy boundaries. That alone, is a solid way of teaching by example IMO.

But... it sure is difficult! 


M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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kazzak

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2017, 12:03:25 PM »
Thanks for sharing that, mdana, well said and a good lesson!

Stay strong, mrstring! You are clearly one of the good guys, faults and all.

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2017, 12:04:41 PM »
Yes...I completely understand.  BTW, I have a daughter that has PD's and addictions.

And, as I have thought about it on a deeper level, I have concluded that ...when we  rush in to 'help' or solve someone's problems too quickly, we take away an opportunity for them to grow and learn to care for themselves (solve their own problem).  Basically what we are saying (without words) is ..."I don't believe you know how to do this, find a solution...let me tell you".  Yet... part of developing self-esteem and confidence comes from learning how to solve our own problems, knowing that we know how to. Sometimes we really DO need advise/help. But... not always and we also need to learn to ASK.

Pema Chodron -- says we tend to want to enable others or rescue, because WE are unable to tolerate the discomfort (our own emotional pain) of watching someone else suffer.  So...we rush to relieve OUR pain.  Not theirs.

I have learned that there is a space in-between empathy...and rescuing.  We can have empathy and show support, without rescuing or solving the problem (OR assuming the role of 'teacher/parent').  The 51% rule applies too... It's a good idea to take care (and/or) notice your needs first... Then, set healthy boundaries. That alone, is a solid way of teaching by example IMO.

But... it sure is difficult! 


M

Thank you. Very wise and important information.

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Hazy111

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2017, 12:13:45 PM »
Yes...I completely understand.  BTW, I have a daughter that has PD's and addictions.

And, as I have thought about it on a deeper level, I have concluded that ...when we  rush in to 'help' or solve someone's problems too quickly, we take away an opportunity for them to grow and learn to care for themselves (solve their own problem).  Basically what we are saying (without words) is ..."I don't believe you know how to do this, find a solution...let me tell you".  Yet... part of developing self-esteem and confidence comes from learning how to solve our own problems, knowing that we know how to. Sometimes we really DO need advise/help. But... not always and we also need to learn to ASK.

Pema Chodron -- says we tend to want to enable others or rescue, because WE are unable to tolerate the discomfort (our own emotional pain) of watching someone else suffer.  So...we rush to relieve OUR pain.  Not theirs.


Wow , that is true insight.

I was constantly trying to fix rescue my waif uBPD girlfriend and she played on it i think. The victim who seemed so vulnerable.

  My mother had done the same to me, smothered and enmeshed me, preventing me from growing up, the CARETAKER as described above was her to a tee. A real martyr victim. UBPD hermit/waif type.

So low and behold im trying to fix my girlfriend , like i tried to fix my mother as a youngster, i need to fix ME!!!!!!!!

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Siren

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2017, 02:12:06 PM »
YOU SAID: Yes for someone who seeks approval being the "bad guy" in the woman I have loved more than anyone outside of family hurts.

" she will need to play the victim to reinforce her own beliefs about herself - I.e. "Everybody leaves me for no reason"
---You hit the nail on the head, we all have our own "story" or "beliefs about themselves" I think for me is maybe that "I cant make a relationship work" or "A woman wouldn't want to be with me long term"



Oh Mr. String, I love your vulnerability -- it's so genuine and so refreshing for most women! Once you've done your grief work and resolved many of your underlying fears and maybe some old FOO issues, you'll attract women who are absolutely emotionally available. Your fear is the same as mine, and that is the old story I told myself...that no one is reliable, and every man is going to sooner or later leave me, just like my parents did, and guess what! I found exactly those partners that would abandon me because I was ultimately unconsciously afraid of intimacy, and as such, I picked the most unavailable partners ever, and I wasn't even attracted to those who were available. If I was emotionally "available," I would have picked emotionally available men, but I wasn't emotionally available, even though I thought I was. Like you and many others, like Mdana, I was a fixer/rescuer, and when the NPD needed help, I would immediately jump into fixing/action mode, even though it was totally inappropriate. Adults shouldn't fix other adults. Adults can "help" other adults, but only in limited ways, and only when it is necessary, like someone is physically or mentally incompetent. This is actually the hardest thing for me to learn, and part of this learning is drawing firm boundaries. It's so hard, but you know that you need to shut the door, and even though you think you need to make contact for the dogs, etc., maybe that's an excuse? Children are one thing, but you can go rescue dogs that need loving homes.

“And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.”
― Anaïs Nin