Constant Questions

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mrstring

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Constant Questions
« on: April 19, 2017, 04:06:37 PM »
Lately she has been in more and more contact. CONSTANT text questions???

1. Why did you do this?
2. Why did you want to leave?
3. Why did you lie?
4. Why did you not care?
5. How can you leave me in such bad shape?
6. You never planned enough because you wanted to leave

I blocked her number for calls but the TEXTS are non stop. I don't know why I read them. I try to send a short, I am sorry we didn't work out. I wish there were things I could have done different and I hope you one day forgive me as I have forgiven you.

It's like a drug with me.

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kazzak

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2017, 05:08:48 PM »
It is like a drug. See more at: http://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/intermittent-reinforcement

You can stop the dance between the two of you anytime you want. You're getting something out of it. What?

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 05:18:28 PM »
It is like a drug. See more at: http://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/intermittent-reinforcement

You can stop the dance between the two of you anytime you want. You're getting something out of it. What?

I think about this often. It's not so much what I AM getting out of it but what I WANT to get out of it.

1. Her approval
2. Her to let me off the hook for my part of any failure in the relationship

So far after all these years it has not happened. Maybe another few years of trying and rephrasing my "arguments" will help, right?
Yeah... I don't think so either

Another possibility is that I miss her and arguing about the relationship is somehow keeping part of it alive. Although if she didn't text or reach out to me, I would not start these discussions. I may ask how she is or something similar but not the chaos.

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Siren

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2017, 03:00:41 PM »
Mr.String, it is like a drug for all of us, but you know you have to stop taking any of it to completely move on. Just like looking at pictures of meth and heroine addicts that are sick and are rotting, same thing here. I will not allow myself to have any contact, whatsoever, with the stbx. Regarding the divorce, I only go through my attorney. If it involves the kids (first NPDex), we speak only about the kids by text, and that's it. I think about my kids, and I think about how I would feel if this was happening to them as adults, and if they allowed themselves to keep being abused.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate."

"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

― Carl Jung

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Hazy111

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2017, 03:44:13 PM »
Mr String/Siren

I notice how the relationship is described like a drug. Its true, ive seen this analogy used often, as its basically correct.

They awaken something inside us at a sub conscious level which we are deeply attracted to. The so called chemistry is like a drug , but like any drug its taken to  soothe an unresolved emotional need/pain. It can become addictive.
 
First ween yourself off , then the hard part. In time you might need to address this so as not to make the same mistake again..like i did over and over. If you dont think of it as an addiction or drug then you wont be attracted to a similarly damaged person in the future , but beware they come in many disguises and we can easily get hooked again by the same drug. I know i have at least 3 times.

I like this quote.

Addiction is at the core of every person's attraction to a personality disordered individual. Addicts feel a desperate need to run from inner emptiness, self-loathing, depression and dissatisfaction. Borderlines give 'em stellar opportunities to do that, as all the drama, chaos and strife in that relationship distracts them from their very own discontent and anguish, which is central to why far too many individuals remain with impaired or toxic partners.

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waking up

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2017, 05:12:27 PM »
Mrstring
I don't know the details of your relationship.. .but having left a man who lied to me , and who I suspect cheated on me, I know how it feels to be left wondering what was real and what wasn't.

I did try to get some answers from my ex (figured I was at least entitled to the truth after 30 years) but my exhusband would never admit to anything. He just used my questions as a way to further gaslight me...example "I can't answer that because I don't remember it- your memory must be freakishly good if you can remember that!"  *This*  from a man who remember the route he took on a 1982 road trip....

I have no idea if this relates to your situation at all, just that I know that feeling of needing validation from your ex, and the ex withholding that information.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 05:17:48 PM by waking up »

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waking up

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 05:26:46 PM »
I have to disagree with the addiction analogy....I don't feel that applies to me at all. . I never felt "addicted" to him. What I felt was more of a need to know the truth and to therefore have my suspicions validated by him. I think if anyone has experienced being lied to and being  gaslighted,  this validation and confirmation is something that you feel you need to start trusting your own judgement again. However; as lve learned, validation isn't something that PDs will provide.

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mdana

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 06:05:43 PM »
I'm not sure what it is.  I had a very difficult time finding closure.

For quite a while, I searched for answers, who's fault was it ? Why couldn't it work out? Did he ever love me? Will he ever admit ...say ...I was a good person, good and worthy at all? Ever? In any way?

At times I thought it was grief, and that letting go of an important long term relationship simply took time and was difficult. Maybe I expected too much of myself? Other times I felt I really needed my ex to approve of me,  tell me I was OK, that I wasn't the hugely flawed person he said I was. So, I corresponded in constant search for answers. Then, wondered why I didn't feel that way already, on my own ? Was I able to be alone? And...then I felt that at some point so much of my identity was wrapped around him, and what he represented in my life. Who was I, if I wasn't the person lifting him up, caring for him, and putting him back together all the time?

So for me, it wasn't 1 thing. It was many things I had to address...work on.

It's great to even be able and willing to ask the question!  Many people don't. They just dive into the next relationship.

M

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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mdana

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2017, 06:20:53 PM »
mrstring....

I will say though, the longer you reply or correspond, the longer it will go on.  It's easy to get sucked back in.  But, maybe you are searching for answers too? 
The other complexity is that someone with a PD, can't really give you closure.  They can't give you ....objective, meaningful answers.  They are unable.  AND...that's another hard thing to process and let go of.  In any 'normal' relationship that dissolves, there is some measure of honest dialogue, then closure.  In relationships with PD, we often have to find closure on our own IMO.

And again ... I often felt compassion for my ex (at first!!!).  He seem genuinely broken (at times).  He seemed to ask genuine questions (it seemed).  It appeared as though he was looking for closure too.  I had read about PD's, but had not REALLY believed it applied to my ex completely.  I was a tad unsure... maybe he was the exception?
 
Reasonable adults... can dialogue, problem solve, let go with love. Those things are not true of someone with a PD.  They are often NOT reasonable, or fair minded, they have difficulty with empathy for others, introspection, and truthfulness, authenticity, moral/ethical principles, responsibility...

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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Liftedfog

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2017, 06:25:52 PM »
 :yeahthat:

I had to come to that very conclusion to start letting go.

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AMH

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2017, 06:49:08 PM »
As I found with my situation she will be wanting to ensure she leaves you with all the blame for whatever happened.  By continuing the discussion (which will only continue forever in a circular argument with no resolution) you are letting her achieve this.  She will be doing this because:
- she has no self awareness or concept of the things she did to contribute
- even if she did she will never take responsibility for them
- she will need to play the victim to reinforce her own beliefs about herself - I.e. "Everybody leaves me for no reason"

Think of what you know of her past relationships - was it ever her fault?

You will be wanting to respond in the hope she will understand your reasoning, won't see you as the bad guy and will reflect and take responsibity for her actions.  But she won't do that so it's not worth it.  Unfortunately you will always be the bad guy now in her eyes.  I get that's hard because it's one of the hardest things I've found to deal with, it just feels so unfair.

Having said all that I don't know your ex.....but lm pretty confident I do.... because I knew mine!

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waking up

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2017, 06:57:59 PM »
Yes Mdana
PDs are incapable of a normal, honest dialogue and of giving  closure. I sometimes think that my h did that deliberately - that he purposely pretended he couldn't remember incidents I needed closure on, just to torture me a bit more because he knew it was something I wanted.

The funny thing is my h did ask questions as well, and I tried to be honest with him (as honest as I could be without setting off a rage ) but my h never really wanted honest answers from me. He wanted to hear me tell him what he wanted. He would also ask questions that couldn't be answered,  such as how I would feel in the future. He didn't ssem to understand that we can't tell the future.

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waking up

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2017, 07:03:45 PM »
AM
True....she may be attempting to continue the conversation just to drag him into a circular argument.  Some people thrive on the drama of that kind of thing .

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Hazy111

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2017, 08:03:11 PM »
All this is true.

The unpalatable truth though is that all PDs are emotionally stunted, in early childhood. They are not adults in the proper sense.  They act an adult, (get married, children,job etc ) but its not authentic , as they never grew up , its impossible for them to do so. The strain to conform in an adult world  is too much and they "act out" in infantile ways with their nearest and dearest with whom its safest, sometimes work colleagues and friends.   


Reasonable adults... can dialogue, problem solve, let go with love. Those things are not true of someone with a PD.  They are often NOT reasonable, or fair minded, they have difficulty with empathy for others, introspection, and truthfulness, authenticity, moral/ethical principles, responsibility...

/quote]

 :yeahthat:  Like a child basically

So why did you fall for a child?? This is the really painful bit.  Dont i know it!! Constantly analyzing the other stops you from introspection and true insight.

Reasonable secure confident mature adults usually get attracted to like minded people. They will see through a pd fairly quickly. ( The pd is also likely to be initimidated by such a person as they are unnerved by their maturity. They will feel enormous strain to act normally. Theyre neurosis isnt being cared for by the other partner).They will sense somethings not quite right .


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Siren

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2017, 08:15:30 PM »
Hazy and Mdana, so true. There is no closure from a PD. Asking a PD for honest answers, validation, or closure is akin to asking a two-year-old why he is throwing a tantrum, which would be, "Because I want to, and blah!!!!  WAH!" I know the addiction analogy for me is true because of the trauma and betrayal bonding, and being addicted to the highs/lows through conditioning, as well as the breakup/makeup cycles very characteristic of these toxic relationships. I know that I was also searching and drawn magnetically to these types of emotionally unavailable PD'd relationships because I had some unfinished FOO/childhood wounds I needed to heal, which I didn't know was the case until I hit rock bottom. Without working on these traumatic experiences from childhood, I would keep searching for/attracting these types of men, and they would be attracted to me. I was an easy target. Lots of loose boundaries and unresolved wounds that predators and emotionally manipulative NPDs or BDPs can detect so easily. The old me would have probably just found another relationship right about now. The new me wouldn't dare. The new me would also not allow myself to be further manipulated by closing the door on any contact.
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate."

"One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious."

― Carl Jung

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mdana

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2017, 10:30:50 PM »
I have heard some say ...
we are the opppsite coin of the narcissistic personality ...so, we "match up" almost perfectly and attract one another. They are inflated...we are deflated.

I always felt my ex was looking for a "mommy". He needed a solid attachment to someone that would always ...always forgive, soothe, make up for his deficits (I was his moral compass). The mother he never had.  I, on the other hand only knew how to be the ultra adult...caretaker...carrying everyone's cross... rushing to bear all the burdens (cause I believed that if I didn't, no one would).

That was then though ...

😍

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 09:50:45 AM »
AM
True....she may be attempting to continue the conversation just to drag him into a circular argument.  Some people thrive on the drama of that kind of thing .

It's funny last time we were talking I even said that. Something like "do we both need or like this because we keep doing it?" and it never goes anywhere or never gets resolved."

I have been reading a lot  about codependency and why I allow this or what I am missing. It is helping but it's a long road I think. I know yesterday I was on the couch not even really thinking of her and I burst out in tears and said "I really can't save her" I was alone by the way. It just hit me, no matter what happened or will happen I want to be her hero or her savior in a weird way. It's a mix of neediness and arrogance mixed in with her ability to know how to press my buttons. 

I am really getting a lot of out all your responses. Thank you

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2017, 09:56:14 AM »
As I found with my situation she will be wanting to ensure she leaves you with all the blame for whatever happened.  By continuing the discussion (which will only continue forever in a circular argument with no resolution) you are letting her achieve this.  She will be doing this because:
- she has no self awareness or concept of the things she did to contribute
- even if she did she will never take responsibility for them
- she will need to play the victim to reinforce her own beliefs about herself - I.e. "Everybody leaves me for no reason"

Think of what you know of her past relationships - was it ever her fault?

You will be wanting to respond in the hope she will understand your reasoning, won't see you as the bad guy and will reflect and take responsibity for her actions.  But she won't do that so it's not worth it.  Unfortunately you will always be the bad guy now in her eyes.  I get that's hard because it's one of the hardest things I've found to deal with, it just feels so unfair.

Having said all that I don't know your ex.....but lm pretty confident I do.... because I knew mine!

Yes for someone who seeks approval being the "bad guy" in the woman I have loved more than anyone outside of family hurts.

" she will need to play the victim to reinforce her own beliefs about herself - I.e. "Everybody leaves me for no reason"
---You hit the nail on the head, we all have our own "story" or "beliefs about themselves" I think for me is maybe that "I cant make a relationship work" or "A woman wouldn't want to be with me long term"

So I tried and tried and failed(some of it my doing, some of it hers) and it just reinforces my narrow beliefs about myself.

The goal is to expand the view of my "story or self belief" so I can heal and move on.

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mrstring

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 10:00:10 AM »
All this is true.

The unpalatable truth though is that all PDs are emotionally stunted, in early childhood. They are not adults in the proper sense.  They act an adult, (get married, children,job etc ) but its not authentic , as they never grew up , its impossible for them to do so. The strain to conform in an adult world  is too much and they "act out" in infantile ways with their nearest and dearest with whom its safest, sometimes work colleagues and friends.   


Reasonable adults... can dialogue, problem solve, let go with love. Those things are not true of someone with a PD.  They are often NOT reasonable, or fair minded, they have difficulty with empathy for others, introspection, and truthfulness, authenticity, moral/ethical principles, responsibility...

/quote]

 :yeahthat:  Like a child basically

So why did you fall for a child?? This is the really painful bit.  Dont i know it!! Constantly analyzing the other stops you from introspection and true insight.

Reasonable secure confident mature adults usually get attracted to like minded people. They will see through a pd fairly quickly. ( The pd is also likely to be initimidated by such a person as they are unnerved by their maturity. They will feel enormous strain to act normally. Theyre neurosis isnt being cared for by the other partner).They will sense somethings not quite right .

Very observant and good points. I think I fell for mine for 2 reasons

1. I am childlike in my development as well. Sure, I can reason and take blame but my boundaries were never developed and I have a hard time managing my own emotions that I allowed her to take the driver seat for my happiness and fulfillment

2. She is sexy. No just kidding, well of course that was part of it. But she has 3 kids and I was amazed at how good she was with them. She seemed very "together" and confident.

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waking up

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Re: Constant Questions
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2017, 10:33:26 AM »
Mrstring
I read your first post and I see that your ex has substance abuse problems,is paranoid about you cheating, and has cheated herself.

I wouldnt be surprised if she using these questions as a way to make you feel guilty and to pull you back in, especially if you do feel this need to be a hero and save her. PDs are good at seeing those qualities in others and exploiting those qualities.

Perhaps consider going totally NC.  You don't have kids together, so could that be an option?