The Root of the Problem...

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Sojourner17

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The Root of the Problem...
« on: June 16, 2017, 04:45:13 PM »
I was just listening to a video about narcissism on youtube where the woman was talking about whether or not the PD person does what they do consciously or unconsciously and she said something fairly profound.  She said that the problem they have is not a brain problem it is a heart problem.  She then tied the heart problem to their emotions, that their entire motivation in life is to be seen as perfect or a "god" or a great parent, etc, etc, etc.

Ive thought for the last little bit that my mom chose what she was doing as she wanted to look good, be superior, be right.  It seems that as she makes these choices she has slipped farther and farther down into a negative cycle of being.  She has to look good at all cost so she must point out all of the things everyone else is doing wrong.

She isnt (or cant check) checking her heart or comparing her heart towards the standard that God has for us.  She isnt checking her heart against absolute truth and willing to be wrong.  Her heart just gets harder and harder it seems.  She cant admit to mistakes, she cant admit to being spiteful, a gossip, hateful, contemptuous and hurtful.  she has chosen the path she is on and as a result her life has taken a much different turn than it might have if she would have kept her heart in check and been willing and able to humble herself and admit things she has done wrong.

I know its not easy to admit when we are wrong.  I sometimes struggle with this myself but it seems that eventually i can check my heart and change paths/backtrack, whatever.  I think people who are non pd have the ability to do this, maybe not perfectly but they can do it.  Perhaps its with God's help (more than likely God plays a part in it) but they are still able to.

What are your thoughts?  Do you see pd behavior as a problem of the heart?
"Tomorrow is a new day with no mistakes in it..." - Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery

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Sunshine days

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Re: The Root of the Problem...
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 06:11:25 PM »
I was just listening to a video about narcissism on youtube where the woman was talking about whether or not the PD person does what they do consciously or unconsciously and she said something fairly profound.  She said that the problem they have is not a brain problem it is a heart problem.  She then tied the heart problem to their emotions, that their entire motivation in life is to be seen as perfect or a "god" or a great parent, etc, etc, etc.

Ive thought for the last little bit that my mom chose what she was doing as she wanted to look good, be superior, be right.  It seems that as she makes these choices she has slipped farther and farther down into a negative cycle of being.  She has to look good at all cost so she must point out all of the things everyone else is doing wrong.

She isnt (or cant check) checking her heart or comparing her heart towards the standard that God has for us.  She isnt checking her heart against absolute truth and willing to be wrong.  Her heart just gets harder and harder it seems.  She cant admit to mistakes, she cant admit to being spiteful, a gossip, hateful, contemptuous and hurtful.  she has chosen the path she is on and as a result her life has taken a much different turn than it might have if she would have kept her heart in check and been willing and able to humble herself and admit things she has done wrong.

I know its not easy to admit when we are wrong.  I sometimes struggle with this myself but it seems that eventually i can check my heart and change paths/backtrack, whatever.  I think people who are non pd have the ability to do this, maybe not perfectly but they can do it.  Perhaps its with God's help (more than likely God plays a part in it) but they are still able to.

What are your thoughts?  Do you see pd behavior as a problem of the heart?
Interesting, I see they don't have empathy like me , they don't have any self awareness or emotional intelligence ! I agree nons have the ability. Humility is something I love lke wise being normal. I do not worship man although they want me to , I worship God he's my saviour . They admit nothing they are perfect , their grandiosity is what allows them to be perfect . Saddos x

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tommom

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Re: The Root of the Problem...
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2017, 06:22:42 PM »
I would guess that is one way to say it, Sojouner, but I don't know (in my experience) if that is all there is to it. My PDh is quite intelligent, able to be very charming if he wants. He has the ability to play a role that he simply isn't. Is that thinking or feeling?  He does have some things that you might think were 'brain' related, for sure, though. He is a hoarder, for one, and I learned what that comes from - an inability to prioritize. (And compulsive behaviors.) After learning that, I see it is very true, at least in his case. He sees value in things that will never be realized as they are in his mind, so that is definately 'brain' realted (or thinking) behavior to me. But she is quite correct in terms of his emotional injuries are the cause of much of that behavior, I think. His childhood was horrific. (Although as the child of a borderline mother, so was mine.) Perhaps that is what she means. I have been with my h for a long, long time and over the years, the source those wounds have become more apparent to me. I guess I would say it is a combination of both in my opinion.

PDs (at least the ones I have known) are seemingly unable to deal with -in a productive way - the wounds they carry. The wounds cause the problem, but their thinking seems awry in the way to deal with them. Then they also have things -like my H's hoarding- that are clearly related to his thinking. So....I vote both.
"It is not my job to fix other people; everyone is on their own journey."

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raindrop

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Re: The Root of the Problem...
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2017, 07:11:34 PM »
I think it depends what 'heart' means. All the things you mentioned could be thought of as mind issues as well. All is connected - wrong beliefs cause wrong feeling cause wrong thinking, cause more wrong feeling.

In my opinion everything evil starts with believing a lie, about god, the world or ourselves. It affects our emotions but its also due to our inability to think reflectively about the belief. The emotions that come up are too overwhelming and we go into defense/attack mode. So its the interaction of both at once, the emotions/heart too strong and the mind too weak.
That's my thinking at the moment anyway.
It is our vocation to prevent the harmful exposure of our inner sanctuary, not only for our own protection but also as a service to our fellow human beings with whom we want to enter a creative communion. Openness loses its meaning when there is no ability to be closed.
-- Henri Nouwen

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PinkDress

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Re: The Root of the Problem...
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2017, 10:50:41 PM »
I think it's a great perspective/truth for PDs.

I listen to a lot of different views through sermons regarding narcissism and I've heard it taught that this is the Jezebel spirit (heart issue/manipulative/cunning).
But just today I heard it put another way too - Biblically we learn about how some people's consciences become "seared". Basically they ignore that little sting of their conscience telling them "no" so long that they no longer feel bad about doing things. I think a person comes to this point in steps:
1. I'll ignore that ping of guilt that I'm doing wrong but still feel it.
2. I'll notice it, but justify it.
3. I don't even care anymore.
4. This is normal. Why are you mad? Some PDs are shocked when you confront them.
"In the long run, the sharpest weapon of all is a kind and gentle spirit." Anne Frank

"God sees people as His own treasures, so be careful how you treat them."

"No one warns you about the amount of mourning in growth."

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sadlee

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Re: The Root of the Problem...
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 03:56:13 PM »
Yes, I think it is a matter of the heart.  My adult son was in seminary studying to go into full time ministry. I was already seeing a few narc tendencies but then he inherited some money from my mother. Once he had that money oh my.... the bad choices and traits just started multiplying.  I believe God was testing him to see what kind of steward he was going to be with the financial  resources he now had to complete his studies. That money turned him into a full blown narc and now he is not pursuing the ministry, has gone through 3 or 4 jobs since then, lost his house, bad credit,  and his finances are in shambles.  It is scary how someone can get so far off course.  We have been estranged for over a year.  His heart is so stone cold you would never believe he could have been seriously pursuing the ministry.  Absolutely no empathy whatsoever.