Overwhelmed by worry and saddness

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SoSadDad

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 09:36:25 PM »
Inconsolable,
    I'm  right there with you.  My DW and I have been estranged for a number of months from our uNPD son, uHPD dil and innocent now 4yr old grandchild. 

    It has been traumatic and emotionally excruciating for both myself and my DW.  Often I feel like I'm on the edge of going insane.  Its as though I keep waking up from a nightmare saying "There's no way this can be happening!".  And yet, there it is.  My son, dil and her mother aren't behaving any differently than they did 10 yrs ago when my son first starting "going off the rails".  In fact they're behaving exactly like people who have PDs!  So I shouldn't be surprised - it just never entered my mind that my precious grand daughter would be involved.

    Like you I struggle with the feeling that if I accept the situation, I'm abandoning my grand daughter.  I'm confident that my grandchild is safe - but I'm very angry at how my DW and I have treated.  And we mourn for the years that will be lost, the joy of watching our grandchild grow up and watching her parent grow in maturity.  Our grandchild is young enough that they won't even remember us.  That breaks my heart.

    Inconsolable - I've found this to be true - there is no shortcut through grief, so don't run try to run away from it.  That doesn't work - I've tried really hard.  Your job right now is to agree on the best way to love your daughter and grandchild in their present circumstances.  That's what we as parents want above all - to love our children the best way possible. That could mean stepping back from your daughter until she's ready to step toward you.  It could mean making it clear to the authorities that you believe your grandchild is endangered (if you believe that's the case), and that you're available to help if problems arise.  Being confident that you're actively loving them the best way possible given the situation gives you permission to love yourself as well.  You deserve at least as much love as you're showing your child and grandchild.

    In my case, loving my grandchild means keeping distance for now.  The last thing I want is for my grandchild to be traumatized by encountering "grandpa the monster".

    Post anytime - it seems there a number of us with similar situations.

SoSadDad

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guitarman

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 04:02:34 AM »
Hello Inconsolable

I'm sorry to hear that things have not gone so well with the carers organisation. Please persevere. You should be put in touch with a local carers group who can really help you more.

Help for carers varies around the country. Some places are more busy than others and with all the cut backs things are getting worse.

I'm in regular touch with my local carers group and I have been well supported. They aren't always available so I have sought out other mental health organisations to go to.

I call Samaritans if I need to and have a chat. They are very good too. It's a free number. You can find it on their website. They also do free face to face counselling which many people don't realise.

They aren't only there for people who feel suicidal but carers as well.

You are legally entitled to a carers assessment. That can be done through your GP.

You are not alone and are going through similar things that I have witnessed from other carers that I know.

Best wishes

guitarman
"Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace." - Dalai Lama

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Adria

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 09:23:32 AM »
Hi Inconsolable,

I know I'm posting on this thread again, but last night after I posted you, I think we may have had a breakthrough.  My schizophrenic son went off everything he was taking about six weeks ago.  Dh and I freaked out, cried and cried because we had such a great year with him last year after being hospitalized five times.  He got a job, a new car and a life.  Has been about totally normal for quite awhile. Had so much fun together, then boom!  We were told not to visit him, call him, not to eat at the restaurant where he works, anger from him was unbearable.  Well, finally had the courage or just lost the strength, but we left him to his own demise while both dh and I were left with an aching pit in our stomach.

Last night son called and asked to talk to dh.  We said a prayer before dh went over there as we didn't want things to blow up and get ugly as they do when he is off his supplements.  Dh came back home flabbergasted.  He said son said, "How come you guys are leaving me alone? I feel like I lost my support group."  Dh said, "Because that is what you wanted us to do."  Son, said, "I miss you, and want to discuss what I should be taking to help myself get better."  Dh said to me, "He about fell over."  Dh got to talk peaceably with son about what to take, about how his job is going (by the way he was made manager of another restaurant. Hugh??? :doh:)  Dh said, he must be doing something to take care of himself because he was laughing and joking and even gave me a high five.

So anyway, on the upside and my point is, maybe if you can find a way, leave her to herself for awhile just as she pleases.  Don't be so quick to pick up your phone when she calls, let her sit a little bit.  Don't call her, don't stop by, turn the tables.  Don't be desperate like we acted like. Let your daughter become desperate for you instead. It is very difficult to do and takes much self-restraint.  Even after you have a decent or nice phone call, don't be too quick to jump back in.  Let her sit with herself and her child.  She may, like my son, come to realize she needs you after all, and if she gets ugly with you, get off the phone kindly or get in your car and leave.  It took awhile lately with my son, but hmmmm, it seems he is actually taking care of himself and coming back around pleasantly. This is a first. Who knew?

Hope this gives you some strength and encouragement.   :hug:

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Inconsolable

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 01:23:35 PM »
Thank you again everyone.

Adria, I'm happy for you and dare I say a little envious?  I hope it lasts and lasts and that you continue to have happy times.  Please will you keep us informed..  the problem is my daughter HATES me.  She is convinced that I am the cause of all her problems and is accusing me of things that, although I am an open person, I dare not even say on this forum.  It's frightening.  She is bitter, paranoid and dilutionary and it's all about me!  She thinks and is telling people that I need serious psychiatric help, she has convinced herself that it is me that's mentally ill and not her.  Absolutely nothing she is saying makes sense.  Everything has been twisted or fabricated... but she believes it and I just don't ever see that this will change.  It's one of those things that I feel in my solar plexus.  It seems set in stone as it helps her to take away the love between me and my grand daughter which I truely believe she hated.  I used to make sure that her daughter showed her priority...  "shall we get mummy some flowers",   "shall we tell mummy about it" etc but she didn't want to go home and she was very close to me.   I had fears it would create a problem.  I would always ask if my daughter wanted to come along with us but she never did and "couldn't be bothered" so it was hard to keep my grand daughter from wanting to be with me because I did everything with her.  Other than that she was at home in her pjs all day watching Tv amongst the rubbish.  It's unbearable to think she will probably be doing that all the time now.  Thank goodness for nursery.

Guitar man, thank you again.  I am not a carer anymore.  My daughter has convinced everyone that I am no good and I have been ostracised.  No one seems to want to talk to me and I dare not try too hard for fear of it getting back to my daughter and it giving her more fuel to hate me.  She has told me that "people are always coming to her and telling her the hundreds of lies I have told them". Arrrrrrr!

Sosaddad. I'm sorry for your troubles.  It's too sad, I can't bear any of it.  Those poor little ones.  How, how can anyone take any love from them, surely they can have as much as they can get from as many people as can give it.  Whats wth using them.  Let them alone, they are innocent of all this rubbish.  I long to give my grand child a cuddle and show her everything's ok but it's not ok she has been denied that which she has known constantly all her life to appease another's problematic personality disorder. 

I am now going to say something that I hope you don't judge me too badly for.  I really dont think I can forgive my daughter.  I really don't.  I sometimes cry for the lovely child she was and my heart aches for her troubles but I still don't  think I can forgive her.  It is wrong I know because, even thinking of it selfishly, I know that not forgiving her may destroy me and for that reason alone I should forgive but I just can't.  I'm seeing it as child cruelty even though I know she thinks she's doing it for good reason and it is her poorly mind.

It's something about children and my not being able to tolerate anything that may cause them any harm I think.  My daughter could tear me apart, bleed me dry, kick me down and I would have eventually come back but I really dont think I can't forgive this.  Maybe if she would once achnowledge the pain she causes.  If she was nice to me once and tried to make amends but she never does..  I always have to get over it myself and start again but every time it chips away at me and our relationship gets weaker and weaker.  I think this is the final straw.

Am I too honest, am I a terrible mum?  I think Im now being self absorbed and  it's not a good thing.  Please bear with me as I go through these emotions.

As sosaddad, I keep having to pinch myself that this is happening.   I now recognise that it had been there waiting to explode for a long time but the end was so sudden and so brutal.  I am still reeling.

Love to all.

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Adria

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 02:08:05 PM »
Inconsolable,

Quote
the problem is my daughter HATES me.  She is convinced that I am the cause of all her problems and is accusing me of things that, although I am an open person, I dare not even say on this forum.  It's frightening.  She is bitter, paranoid and dilutionary and it's all about me!  She thinks and is telling people that I need serious psychiatric help, she has convinced herself that it is me that's mentally ill and not her.  Absolutely nothing she is saying makes sense.  Everything has been twisted or fabricated... but she believes it and I just don't ever see that this will change.

This is exactly what we have been dealing with.  They can't see themselves, and for some reason they always hate the mama. That is why I have backed away and let dh do the talking for awhile. He seems to be able to take more from dh than me. My son and I have only been texting, and very little, so there is no emotion involved.  When he goes down, I am always the cause of everything wrong in his life. He hates me and blames me for everything. He gets paranoid and delusional to the point of him telling everyone I am trying to poison him by cooking him dinner. They twist everything and nothing makes sense. 

We didn't think it would ever change either, but by leaving him to himself, something seems to have shifted this time.  It is a first.  Maybe your daughter will realize (if left alone) that she does need your help with her child.  A child has to be quite strenuous for someone in her condition.  Whatever you have been doing, maybe try doing the opposite and give it some time.  Obviously what we both have been doing hasn't been working.  I am learning I can't rescue someone who doesn't want to be rescued.  I think when we keep going after them and pushing our will on them (though well meaning) gives them a means of control over us, and it's the only control they have, because their life is so out of control, so they push back just because they can.  They know we will love them no matter what, especially us moms, so they take out their anger and wrath on us. 

Maybe it's time to shift perspectives for both of us and start taking care of ourselves, let go and let God, and see if some things start to fall in line.  I also, can say that when my son was in his twenties, it was very difficult.  Now he is 32 and seems to be a little more aware of when he is going down.  I don't know how old your daughter is, but time can change some of the dynamics as well as hormones and other physiological factors that play into this. Please take care of yourself right now.  I am learning how to do that again as well.  Things can change, sometimes it just feels like it can take forever.

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Inconsolable

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 03:34:53 PM »
Thank you Adria.

My daughter is older and it seems to be getting worse.  I only contact her when a question needs answering and then I get someone else to do it but she takes that opportunity to spring.  Ive done the running...  The why's, the maybes if we try this or that,  the pleads, the whats wrongs, can I helps, I'm sorry you feel that way, the I didn't mean it like that, the are you oks,  the should we try's, the do you wants, the don't worry loves... 

I'l maintain the space, I have to anyway for my own sanity.  I'm drained and hurting and grieving and I keep spontaneously crying.  I'l try to build up my strength by taking the sound advice I've been given here.




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momnthefog

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2017, 07:54:38 AM »
Thank you again everyone.

I am now going to say something that I hope you don't judge me too badly for.  I really dont think I can forgive my daughter.  I really don't.  I sometimes cry for the lovely child she was and my heart aches for her troubles but I still don't  think I can forgive her.  It is wrong I know because, even thinking of it selfishly, I know that not forgiving her may destroy me and for that reason alone I should forgive but I just can't.  I'm seeing it as child cruelty even though I know she thinks she's doing it for good reason and it is her poorly mind.

It's something about children and my not being able to tolerate anything that may cause them any harm I think.  My daughter could tear me apart, bleed me dry, kick me down and I would have eventually come back but I really dont think I can't forgive this.  Maybe if she would once achnowledge the pain she causes.  If she was nice to me once and tried to make amends but she never does..  I always have to get over it myself and start again but every time it chips away at me and our relationship gets weaker and weaker.  I think this is the final straw.

Am I too honest, am I a terrible mum?  I think Im now being self absorbed and  it's not a good thing.  Please bear with me as I go through these emotions.


Inconsolable,

This is one place where you can be honest.  And I hope you will continue to do so.

Forgiveness......ah....it's complicated.  I think I felt much the same at different times.  Sometimes I'm not sure I've really forgiven.  I have two PD adult children.  My daughter (the BPD) is a walk in the part compared to her brother ASPD who molested (I learned about 2  years ago) a younger sibling. 

So, I completely get where you are coming from.  Its been easier for me to "forgive" BPDd as much of her transgressions are against me.  ASPDs, I think I'm still numb to the destruction and pain he brought into our family.  Dealing with the issue of forgiving him is difficult even on a good day.  For the most part I shove that deep down inside.  Even more difficult is to forgive myself for not seeing or realizing what was happening. 

This is truly a difficult journey not just for the parents but the brothers and sisters of PDs. 

momnthefog
"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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momnthefog

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2017, 07:55:16 AM »
So anyway, on the upside and my point is, maybe if you can find a way, leave her to herself for awhile just as she pleases.  Don't be so quick to pick up your phone when she calls, let her sit a little bit.  Don't call her, don't stop by, turn the tables.  Don't be desperate like we acted like. Let your daughter become desperate for you instead. It is very difficult to do and takes much self-restraint.  Even after you have a decent or nice phone call, don't be too quick to jump back in.  Let her sit with herself and her child.  She may, like my son, come to realize she needs you after all, and if she gets ugly with you, get off the phone kindly or get in your car and leave.  It took awhile lately with my son, but hmmmm, it seems he is actually taking care of himself and coming back around pleasantly. This is a first. Who knew?


I had a similar experience with BPDd.

Just before Mother's Day she unfriended me on FB.  Not the first time.  Nothing on Mother's Day (I'd sent her a card).  We've exchanged a txt about grand child visiting in a few weeks but she's offered no other contact and I was not going to poke the hornets nest. 

She called last night.  Very chatty.  She's on a high.  She never said sorry, never explained.  I didn't ask.....I just rode the wave.

momnthefog

« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 07:59:50 AM by momnthefog »
"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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Inconsolable

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2017, 02:49:59 PM »
Thank you momnthefog

We have gone away for the weekend.  Trying to get some normality into our lives and escape the pain but there's no escape.  Its come with us and we were both teary  eyed over our evening meal.  We have booked for two nights but are thinking about heading home tomorrow instead.  We just can't do it.

I feel I want to wrap myself in a blanket and curl up in a ball and a hotel isn't the place to do that sonits back to the drawing board for pain relief! 

Someone in here said "long walks".   I will try that.  Maybe being with nature will help.


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Inconsolable

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2017, 02:06:30 PM »
I'm all cried out for the day. 

I know that my daughter is using my grand child to hurt me and that I am going under.

I can't do this, I need to be strong and keep myself emotionally safe for whatever the future brings. 

I must let go and let what will be - be.  I can't change it?  It's  just unbelievably hard

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Latchkey

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2017, 04:53:02 PM »
Hi Inconsolable,
Yes, preserve your strength for your Grand child. The oxygen mask scenario, of you securing yours first is so important to remember.

 As hard as it is to see now, this is an ongoing pattern with your D and this latest chapter is not the end.

 :bighug:
Latchkey
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Inconsolable

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Re: Overwhelmed by worry and saddness
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 01:00:21 PM »
Thank you latchkey

I figured it out

I was bouncing round the walls trying to piece it together.  Although I knew what she said wasn't true I couldn't get my head round anything.  Last night I got it...

She has heard something, it can't have been much because I haven't said much.  She has run with it.  She hasn't been able to rationalise and has catastrophised.   Having no support group to bring her back to reality she has gone over things time and time again in her head and it has gathers pace.  With that she has changed the circumstances to match her feelings and, as her feeling got worse so did the events she has blown up, made up or imagined.  The snowball effect has taken hold more when she has looked for help with councillors who don't know the family history.   Things they have said or the way they have reacted to her imagined scenario have only made things worse and, because she hasn't the backup of her mental health team It has become so established in her mind and I have become so demonised that she truely believes that I am the cause of everything bad that has every happened to her.

  I feel there is no turning this round.  I am the devil incarnate and worse than that she feels better now that it isn't her with the problem but me.  I (she truely believes) am the one with serious psychiatric problems, she is fine..... 

This is a dangerous situation.  I doubt il ever see my grand daughter again.

I feel the system has let us down.  Why was she left on her own to find her own help from people who were not qualified to understand her mental health issues.