When the anger turns to sadness

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Cenzi

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When the anger turns to sadness
« on: September 11, 2017, 01:42:31 PM »
Its been a week now and the anger has subsided. I had to leave a heated argument to keep it from escalating.We have difficulty  finding solutions for problems...and resot to blaming and making the other person feel bad. There have only been 2 people in my life who can press my hot button and get my anger escalated to outburst. My ex-wife(-divorced now for 17 years , so that's not even an issue anymore; and my son who has an addiction problem . since his mother abandoned him due to his leaving her religion, she had nothing to do with him since he was 17. He is 36. I spent 12 years dealing with him...numerous outbursts...until I finally went to Ala-non to learn how to deal with an addict in your life.
So I've had my share of unhealthy relationships. I am in a relationship now and have broken up 2 x before and we recently had a very heated argument. I allowed the criticisms of my children to go uncontended. I tried to make him see that he is making a federal case out of something most people would shrug off. So I am sad, because I allowed myself to get to the point of an outburst. I'm sad because I like the guy; even love the guy, though I can't say I love his behavior..and making my children out to be a problem, enough that it starts to come between us (he thinks I put them 1st; I don't think it's a competition) and so I'm sad because I don't want to spend my 'golden years' in a contentious relationship and I realize I thought I could change his thinking. Change it from being so rigid and inflexible, to one more relaxed and easy, not taking thinks too seriously...too dramatic.
I love my kids; they are grown, but they will always be my children. I can't live with someone who is going to make it an issue and constantly see anything I do for them as my favoring them over him.That saddens me because it may just mean we are incompatible and maybe need to part ways. when I speak to him he makes me doubt myself...but allowing you daughter to live with you temporarily so she can save money for her new married life (my partner and I each have homes, we don't live with one another, welive alone..and we both work full time) is a normal loving and kind thing that most parent would do for the their child. I am saddened too because thinking he loves me, I thought he might recognize that kindness and ability to love..in me...and maybe even be proud to be with me because of it. Is that unreasonable? Am I missing something? I think when you are a parent from the moment of birth your child changes your life in that the child in certain ways becomes more important than your own self. I don't think my partner who has never had kids can think first of someone else, but instead...only how something impacts them and their needs...and so it becomes a challenge for them to see it for the truth of what it is.
Maybe acceptance that we are too different will allow me to let it go without too much resentment.I'm supposed to 'discuss' this with him this evening as he agreed to talk without blaming, yelling or talking over me..and I agreed to the same. It's going to be a challenge I think.

Jumped back on to modify: Even though he agreed to talk tonight....He just texted me to say he is too busy to talk..he has plans for the next few days and he'll let me know when he can talk to me. Back to his game playing, I imagine.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 02:41:01 PM by Cenzi »
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mdana

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 07:54:20 PM »
Hum....

So, he doesn't like that your daughter is living in your home, even though he lives in his own separate home? What does he say is the reason that it affects him? 

You both have separate homes and finances, right? So... In what ways does he say, you put your kids above your relationship with him?

I have found that people with no kids, have a limited ability to understand what it's like to be a parent. That's ok too, it depends on how the boundaries are negotiated.

So far, I don't see what your partner is so angry about. Does he feel your kids are abusive to you? Does having your daughter in your home affect his time with you?

M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 08:22:27 PM »
I think you are right about having. a limited ability to understand what it's like to be a parent when they have had no children. We are a gay couple, not sure if you know that. He feels it impacts our time together when we are here for the weekend, because he isn't comfortable with my daughter. Claims we can't be too affectionate, and with someone else in the house we can't feel relaxed. She may hear us in the bedroom or
interfere in some way with our privacy. It's  not that often that we are here for the weekend to begin with. and my daughter spends every other weekend at her fiance's house. I don't totally agree with him and  it would only be appropriate to respect that someone else is in the house....but it's not a big deal! at least to me. I wanted to stay this past weekend because I bought a new car and wanted to take care of getting my replaced car detailed., take photos, and post it for sale. The detail shop I use is near my house....plus we were going to go to a concert on Sunday, so it made sense to come here. He had a fit. We haven't talked since last Monday night, when I removed myself from the situation and drove home to my house.
Of course he blames me, since " He told me he was against it and I let her move in anyway"!... and that I make her # 1. I find it hard to believe that a mature man of 58 would be that upset that my 26 year old daughter might be here a few times when we are here.
He also thinks she ' disrespected' him New Year's eve, when she mentioned that she had spoken to my ex partner of 16 years, who was like a father to her...and she hadn't seen him in 2 years because he was so chronically ill out in CA, he was unable to travel back.  He did make it back last August and she was just excited to see him and his grandaughters( ages 4 & 6). He is now in hospice He made such a big deal that she mentioned him and didn't think about how it would have made him feel.
Do you get that he is over the top sensitive?
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mdana

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 09:42:15 PM »
Sounds like it...

From what you describe, your daughter isn't around too much (she's independent) and it's only temporary.

Bummer... because he seems rather inflexible. The gay thing doesn't matter, (in my mind). Any couple spending time together wants privacy, and there's plenty of opportunity for that given what you describe. As adults, we are able to delay our needs when it's appropriate, and I don't see that as a hardship.

But, regardless of whose right or wrong, who is flexible or inflexible, your partner seems uncomfortable with the situation (your situation) and I'm not sure that will change.  It doesn't have to be reasonable, or make sense, unfortunately. Its always nice (great even) when it does, because then the relationship is workable.

You have to decide what you can live with. What's best for you. I think it's unfair, childish and unnecessary to have to choose between your children and a relationship. It's clear, your kids are adults. Your daughter is there for a short time. She's Independent, away every other weekend.  You seem to have already set clear boundaries with your son.

bummer.... 😩

Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 10:24:49 PM »
Thank you . Thank you for the validation. You know , I didn't even have to think twice about letting my daughter stay here. Others have told me it's a loving and kind thing to do, something most parents would do for their child. Having heard that, I thought just maybe he would recognize this  as a good character trait in a partner, and be glad that I am who I am. I thought too, if he really cared for me and loved me that he would think of putting me in this position.  Maybe he is better off with someone who can devote themselves to him, although at 58, I think he may have a difficult time finding that person. His history  with childless,  single, never been married partners has not served him well; they're better described as disastrous.  I think parents learn very early the importance of putting another person first. He just doesn't get it and as you've said  it is not likely to change, which makes me sad.I don't think I can live being plagued with that kind of recurring upset in my life.
Thank you for making it even more clear to me
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mdana

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 10:53:55 PM »
Well, it's not a true partnership, if it's 1 sided.  If he can't meet you half way and accept the parts of you that are important and valuable to you... then, what's there to do?  Abandon yourself? Abandon those you love? Your world could potentially get real tiny, if you do.  But, no one that genuinely loves you, would ask you to do that. That doesn't sound very loving to me.

That doesn't mean your partner is "bad". It could just mean, he is limited in this way. He can't or won't "share" or extend (both of himself, nor of you).

When we love someone, we extend. We learn to love (or at least accept) the people in our loved ones life.  We bring our own set of friends/family too. We do it joyfully ...because it's great to have more family and friends. Who wouldn't want more friends...? (Of course, the assumption is they are not toxic and abusive).

What is important to you, matters. It's real and it's "right" for you if you feel it so. Not everyone values the same things, nor do we all have the same needs or capacities.

❌⭕️❌⭕️
M
Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 10:19:38 AM »
so, mdana, it's interesting,.. but I haven't thought of it as meeting 1/2 way...if he were to meet half way and accept the parts of me that are important to me( my family and children), I think he could get to know them . They are anything but toxic and abusive....but what is my concession in this? My meeting 1/2 way? Is is it to understand his discomfort and agree to be at my home only sometimes, taking it slow?.. Is it to accept that it's important to him that he be first?...at least some of the time? He doesn't have much family..only a sister who doesn't get too involved with him. I do like her a lot and he knows that and I'm very comfortable with her and her family. She is 60 and has a husband and two young men in their 20's.
I'm a little confused as to how to negotiate this...1/2 way.. seems what is important to him is an unfounded( in my eyes) judgment about how my kids treated him). Most people would shrug it off and not take such offense....and obsess about it.Maybe I just need to accept that he doesn't see it that way and know that if he does try to accept them, he is doing it for me?...wouldn't he start to resent me?  I think the bottom line is that he has a fear that he isn't important enough to me or that he just doesn't feel loved by me the way he wants to feel loved. Like he is the most important person in the world to me and my children don't count.  I can't control his feelings about not being loved(I think it runs very deep, given the abusive mother) but I can do everything I can to try to reassure him that he is important to me and that I do love him...short of alienating my children.

You seem so insightful and clear about things. I think you have a gift for seeing right thru to the truth of the matter. Do you have any suggestions? What would be fair?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 10:58:41 AM by Cenzi »
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Ellie307

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 10:43:54 AM »
This isn't about your children. This is about HIM. When you direct your attention to someone else, your partner is not receiving that attention. That sounds them and they regard it as a criticism.
I believe this because my relationship with my adult children was the ultimate straw that broke the camels back. My exNbf banned my girls from even coming to visit. We were living in his house. My girls never disrespected him until he started accusing them of things they never did or said.
I refused to cut my girls out of my life. It was them or him. I chose them. His jealousy and plans to paint my girls as something they weren't backfired on him. He thought I would choose him. Not in this lifetime.
"Make it worth the price we pay."
"Nothing changes if nothing changes."
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Ellie307

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 10:51:03 AM »
Just wanted to add that when anger turns to sadness,you may be headed for a severe bout of depression. Take care of yourself and know in your heart that your kids will never expect you to choose between them and your S.O.
No normal person would put us in that horrible predicament.
Best wishes and hugs of support.
"Make it worth the price we pay."
"Nothing changes if nothing changes."
"If there's one good piece of me left, I swear, it's mine and mine alone."

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 10:52:34 AM »
I'm afraid if I continue with him..that's what may happen. We had plans to buy a retirement beach home together..and I can only imagine him trying to ban my kids from 'his' house, if they did something that offended him...I don't have to stretch my imagination too far either.

Tha's sad, really. Love is not a scarcity...if you have a loving heart, it's usually an open heart..there's a 'largeness' to an open heart and mind that allows for many people to be included.I want him included. 

That's a great quality to have. I'm thankful I have my children because they taught me how to make someone else's needs more important than my own.

It won't happen in my lifetime, either...
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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 10:57:45 AM »
I was thinking of seeing my therapist..haven't seen him since April. My children would never do that. They would never interfere like that. My kids have been through a lot with the divorce and a mother who is in a fundamentalist religion and has basically abandoned her kids because they left the religion. My kids, now that they are grown, realize that I have always been there for them. My daughter especially..has turned to me when she has felt like she wanted to give-up. Her most recent challenge with her mother was that she was not going to come to the wedding because she is not marrying in the religion. Talk about small worlds...
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Shell92127

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 11:03:02 AM »
Thank you . Thank you for the validation. You know , I didn't even have to think twice about letting my daughter stay here. Others have told me it's a loving and kind thing to do, something most parents would do for their child. Having heard that, I thought just maybe he would recognize this  as a good character trait in a partner, and be glad that I am who I am. I thought too, if he really cared for me and loved me that he would think of putting me in this position.  Maybe he is better off with someone who can devote themselves to him, although at 58, I think he may have a difficult time finding that person. His history  with childless,  single, never been married partners has not served him well; they're better described as disastrous.  I think parents learn very early the importance of putting another person first. He just doesn't get it and as you've said  it is not likely to change, which makes me sad.I don't think I can live being plagued with that kind of recurring upset in my life.
Thank you for making it even more clear to me

I am a retired elementary school teacher. I was married to a wonderful man for over 30 years. We never had children
but we both loved children and had close relationships with our nieces and nephew and had them stay with us for school vacations sometimes and we loved that. We also had friends with young children and were around young kids as they grew in many situations. My beloved husband died almost 4 years ago. About 2 years after I lost him I became involved with my now ex narc bf. He had 2 brief marriages and many broken relationships. He never had children and was never around them. He was the most immature self centered man I eve met. His behavior when enraged was that of a toddler-! Of course he was a PD but even had he not been a PD I think he would have been immature. My theory is those adults who have not had children or [ as in my case] worked with children can behave in immature ways because they never learned to modify their immature behavior! Children behave like children-which is normal. When adults observe this they can think to themselves "Hmmmm I behave like that sometimes and it's not attractive or useful..I'd better modify MY behavior!" It's probably not even a conscious process.

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Ellie307

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:58 AM »
Most PD'S are children emotionally IMO. Their maturity was stunted long ago.
Cenzi, you are a Great Dad! We love our children, no matter what. No one can take that away from us.
"Make it worth the price we pay."
"Nothing changes if nothing changes."
"If there's one good piece of me left, I swear, it's mine and mine alone."

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 02:25:57 PM »
Well, it's not a true partnership, if it's 1 sided.  If he can't meet you half way and accept the parts of you that are important and valuable to you... then, what's there to do?  Abandon yourself? Abandon those you love? Your world could potentially get real tiny, if you do.  But, no one that genuinely loves you, would ask you to do that. That doesn't sound very loving to me.

That doesn't mean your partner is "bad". It could just mean, he is limited in this way. He can't or won't "share" or extend (both of himself, nor of you).

When we love someone, we extend. We learn to love (or at least accept) the people in our loved ones life.  We bring our own set of friends/family too. We do it joyfully ...because it's great to have more family and friends. Who wouldn't want more friends...? (Of course, the assumption is they are not toxic and abusive).

What is important to you, matters. It's real and it's "right" for you if you feel it so. Not everyone values the same things, nor do we all have the same needs or capacities.

❌⭕️❌⭕️
M
so, mdana, it's interesting,.. but I haven't thought of it as meeting 1/2 way...if he were to meet half way and accept the parts of me that are important to me( my family and children), I think he could get to know them . They are anything but toxic and abusive....but what is my concession in this? My meeting 1/2 way? Is is it to understand his discomfort and agree to be at my home only sometimes, taking it slow?.. Is it to accept that it's important to him that he be first?...at least some of the time? He doesn't have much family..only a sister who doesn't get too involved with him. I do like her a lot and he knows that and I'm very comfortable with her and her family. She is 60 and has a husband and two young men in their 20's.
I'm a little confused as to how to negotiate this...1/2 way.. seems what is important to him is an unfounded( in my eyes) judgment about how my kids treated him). Most people would shrug it off and not take such offense....and obsess about it.Maybe I just need to accept that he doesn't see it that way and know that if he does try to accept them, he is doing it for me?...wouldn't he start to resent me?  I think the bottom line is that he has a fear that he isn't important enough to me or that he just doesn't feel loved by me the way he wants to feel loved. Like he is the most important person in the world to me and my children don't count.  I can't control his feelings about not being loved(I think it runs very deep, given the abusive mother) but I can do everything I can to try to reassure him that he is important to me and that I do love him...short of alienating my children.

You seem so insightful and clear about things. I think you have a gift for seeing right thru to the truth of the matter. Do you have any suggestions? What would be fair?
Cenzi

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 02:34:44 PM »
Thank you . Thank you for the validation. You know , I didn't even have to think twice about letting my daughter stay here. Others have told me it's a loving and kind thing to do, something most parents would do for their child. Having heard that, I thought just maybe he would recognize this  as a good character trait in a partner, and be glad that I am who I am. I thought too, if he really cared for me and loved me that he would think of putting me in this position.  Maybe he is better off with someone who can devote themselves to him, although at 58, I think he may have a difficult time finding that person. His history  with childless,  single, never been married partners has not served him well; they're better described as disastrous.  I think parents learn very early the importance of putting another person first. He just doesn't get it and as you've said  it is not likely to change, which makes me sad.I don't think I can live being plagued with that kind of recurring upset in my life.
Thank you for making it even more clear to me

I am a retired elementary school teacher. I was married to a wonderful man for over 30 years. We never had children
but we both loved children and had close relationships with our nieces and nephew and had them stay with us for school vacations sometimes and we loved that. We also had friends with young children and were around young kids as they grew in many situations. My beloved husband died almost 4 years ago. About 2 years after I lost him I became involved with my now ex narc bf. He had 2 brief marriages and many broken relationships. He never had children and was never around them. He was the most immature self centered man I eve met. His behavior when enraged was that of a toddler-! Of course he was a PD but even had he not been a PD I think he would have been immature. My theory is those adults who have not had children or [ as in my case] worked with children can behave in immature ways because they never learned to modify their immature behavior! Children behave like children-which is normal. When adults observe this they can think to themselves "Hmmmm I behave like that sometimes and it's not attractive or useful..I'd better modify MY behavior!" It's probably not even a conscious process.
Funny thing is that this man is a retired Elementary School Principal and was in education for 34 years!..he now teaches it at the college level...he's been around children most of his adult life!
I sometimes think he mimics the children in other ways..like sometimes, jokingly, lulling or singing repetitive phrases as a child would do to taunt, or sometime I feel like he thinks I'm a child and talks to me as though I were one..like' Don't forget to wipe your feet!" !!! if we come in from the rain. REALLY?
The thing is he doesn't see that he is immature and is being dramatic...and I'm sure he gets validation of his feeling from his 2 closest friends who are childless also., one of them being single.I don't mean to say that childless people are immature in this way; just that parenting, the feeling of being a parent, that special bond...made stronger by years of watching the development of the child into an adult...and becoming emotionally attached and bonded...is not in their experience. It is likely hard to identify with.

We were supposed to discuss this and while he originally agreed, at my suggestion, thinking it was a good idea,...to let the weekend pass... and that we could talk on Monday night, when I texted him to see if I could call..he said I'm too busy to talk. I'm busy with plans over the next few days. I'll let you know when I can talk to you.
This is known as 'The Silent Treatment'...which he does all the time, whenever he is upset with me. Childish, you ask?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 03:09:41 PM by Cenzi »
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Shell92127

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2017, 05:09:31 PM »
"This is known as 'The Silent Treatment'...which he does all the time, whenever he is upset with me. Childish, you ask?"

yes Cenzi - it's childish and dismissive. He is distancing himself.  My ex narc would do this too. Claim he was too busy to talk. Or he would call and say "I didn't call to talk..".
 :-\
It's a way of devaluing you-making you unimportant. Well I finally had enough of it and I hope one day soon you'll get your fill of this abusive crap too!

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mdana

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2017, 07:02:13 PM »
Cenzi.....

So many people in big careers don't have much maturity or relational skills! 

So, from what I have learned ... most people don't have solid relational skills. We all develop them as we go along, usually by trial and error. PD's, are stuck because they don't believe they have any flaws, so there's nothing to fix. There is something wrong with all of us, it's just a matter of degree AND can we grow/change?. So, from what you describe, it's difficult to know if this is an issue of relational skills, or rigidity r/t PD, but it seems that is what you are trying to figure out. I have read your post (but, not sure I have read all of them, so maybe I am missing pieces of information). Nevertheless, you can find out for sure, if you can give it a test to two. 

Meeting half way is a form of 'stretching'.  Can HE stretch for you... can YOU stretch for him? There is no perfect relationship, so often we are tasked with deciding how much we can stretch (meet the other person) in order to make it work. It's a two way street.  You will know pretty quick if he is able (or even willing).

Your examples were good. Meeting someone 1/2 (or part of the way) begins w/ understanding the other person.  Where are they coming from? What was their childhood and life like (someone that has spent very little time in a family unit, may not feel comfortable being in a family unit)? What are their strengths and weaknesses? And in your case, Why does he feel this way towards your children?  We can assume it's because he is selfish and doesn't want anyone in your life but himself, and maybe you already know this.

But, if you are unsure, there's are a few ways to find out.

So your part can include asking him why?  It seems he is uncomfortable showing affection when your daughter is around..?  AND, that he prefers private, alone time w/ you? That doesn't seem too unreasonable, the question is ... is that all? What is underneath the discomfort? AND, is he willing to meet half way?

Understanding his discomfort and seeing if certain solutions can work, is the next step.  So, perhaps agree to share time together in your home when your daughter is not there (initially). Maybe you can go to his place for a bit? In return, you could ask him to get to know your daughter on NEUTRAL ground ...and slowly?  Neutral ground is the best ground to build a relationship if there is fear or animosity. See if he is willing to get to know your children, if you are willing to spend time at his place (or he come to your place when your daughter is not there)? You mentioned he doesn't have a solid family background, which tells me he may not have any idea how to function as part of a family unit.  He may feel uncomfortable in a family setting, afraid. That's all ok...if he is willing to work at it (with you).

AND, when your daughter mentioned missing your other partner, explore that w/ him too (if he is even willing).  Let him tell you how it felt and why he believes it was intentional?  Just listen.  Notice what he says...his expressions.  Don't defend, judge or say anything. Listen with curiosity.  Later on, you can process what you think about it, but often when we become defensive or reply too quickly, we don't get to see the 'real' situation.  Then, we walk away unsure what really happened because we interjected too soon.

Yes, I would think accepting that he is potentially your life partner (acknowledging that w/ him if it is appropriate) and giving him priority (in some areas of your life) is a good way to help solidify the relationship (if you decide that is what you want).  If he needs that reassurance and he is willing to give you some space related to your kids, that may work.  Boundaries are important, and they work on both ends.  See if he can learn to respect your boundaries related to your family, and see if you are willing to accommodate some of his.

I dated a wonderful man whose kids called him ALL THE TIME!!  We lived in different parts of the state, so our time together was limited to 1 weekend/month. Both of us had kids. Between the two of us, 4 were in their mid-20's, 2- teens 14 & 17 years old.  We spent time together only when both our kids were w/ the other parent (ex's).  It began to bother me that his kids would call several times a day, during our weekend together.  SO, I mentioned that given our limited time, I had asked my kids to only call me if it was important or urgent because I valued our time alone together. I asked if he would do the same. I often sat at dinner (or breakfast) watching him chat on the phone w/ either of his kids for no less than 30 minutes at a time (sometimes over an hour). It was never urgent or anything that could not wait a day or two.  Our relationship was not a priority (I was not a priority) in my mind.  We discussed it and the conclusion was (he never said it in these exact words) that after his divorce, he felt so much guilt that he failed his children, that he was trying to make up for it by being there now. His daughter at the time was 24, his son 17.  That didn't work for me. Boundaries are important (with kids too...). My children understood the boundary and waited until Sunday evening to tell me about their weekend. They wanted me to find a life partner ... and gave me that space.

I don't know if this is helpful to you or not.  If not...disregard it! You won't hurt my feelings one bit! Every situation is different, so keep that in mine. 

XOXOXO
M


Love and compassion are necessities, not luxuries. Without them humanity cannot survive. The Dalai Lama

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2017, 08:40:20 PM »
So, I appreciate your sincere response mdana.  you did say that you hadn't read all the posts, so there is a piece that is important . He has very often stayed at my house for the weekend. My Son was in Boston and my daughter had her own apartment for 3 years. We were very used to being here alone. I probably spend more weekends at his home. I do think there's an underlying fear that he isn't loved and in the end will be less important than my kids. I don't see it quite that way as though it were a competition. I do believe it is more about respecting boundaries and doing it with love, and not begrudge them, because we know it benefits the relationship. Honestly, my children don't interfere. When she is here she chats a bit with me after work, then spends time in her room and talking to friends, to her fiancé, making wedding plans, etc
I do wonder what is beneath the discomfort of being around her. Also, I don' think he feels my daughter mentioning my ex was was intentional . He has told me because I asked..that he felt compared to him and that she should have known better than to talk about him in front of him. I tried to explain to him that my daughter was well aware that he knew I still saw my ex, who is chronically i'll with interstitial lung disease..and was fine with it. I see my ex occasionally to get him out of the house...it's quite a chore with the oxygen tanks, and trying to pick up a wheelchair to put into the trunk   and being responsible for him when he's out. I do this because most of his friends and our common friends have distanced themselves a bit because he was in CA for 2 years, having been close to death and in a coma for 3 months....and now that he is back here in the east, it is too difficult for most of them to do mange this sort of thing with all the medical equipment and responsibility. We are in our 60's. My partner understands I do it to help improve the quality of his life so he he isn't lying in a recliner or bed for weeks at a time. My partner thinks it is a kindness. So, my daughter knew this and likely didn't think it was much out of line to simply mention she was excited to see him after him being away for 2 years.
So there must be something underneath of it. I guess I will just ask him.. When we got back together in April, I had dinner with my two kids and told them he felt a bit of an outsider and how he perceived the two events that happened. They felt badly and asked what they could do to help make him feel more accepted.. They have been very nice to him since then, but he doesn't engage them. I feel like he can't let it go and holds a grudge over something that was done not out of malice, but innocence and in my son's case perhaps awkwardness, perhaps not knowing how to respond to someone who goes on and on and on with a story until it is so distant from the original conversation, that they lose interest.. He does that with me . We've probably all have had that experience and been on both ends of the discomfort. You just shrug it off and know not to do it again when you're with that particular person., or don't engage someone like that too often.
The other issue is that we often have difficulty exchanging information when we have a disagreement because it turns into blaming and raising of voices..and we never get anywhere..it becomes circular.
This bothers me a great deal. As one responder said..a BPD often thinks they have no flaws so there is nothing to fix. I do think he has this attitude. He once said to me that he doesn't do anything wrong.
He' an intense type of person, but I've had the opportunity to get to know his softer side. He is kind to me and thoughtful most of the time. He says he treats me like gold...but I think it depends on your definition...because I think treating someone like gold includes emotional support, respect for their feelings and attempting to find solutions in a disagreement rather than blaming and yelling. I have to say I am also guilty of the same at times...like we do this dance. Funny, how that happens with certain people.... like my ex-wife and my oldest son...they're the only two,people that can push my buttons...and of course my present partner.  not so,with my other kids or other relationships.
I,almost just want to give up because it's too damn hard sometimes dealing with things like his silent treatment and the effort to make it work... maybe it's more telling than I want to hear.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 09:10:11 PM by Cenzi »
Cenzi

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Shell92127

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2017, 07:57:46 AM »

 insensitive behavior of the PD people actually robs us of our
loving feelings because we non pd's are loving and caring and we like feeling loving and caring, when they
mistreat us it robs us of our ability to always be loving and caring!

Erik Fromm wrote 'The Art of Loving' many years ago -  he explains the importance of :

(1) Knowledge.

The couple gives knowledge of themselves to each other, e.g., communicates, and, thus, builds intimacy and avoids misunderstandings.

(2) Caring.

They really care about each other. Since, really, they are sharing so much of their lives, they really are 'partners' in life whether they thought they wanted to be or not. So, they are in a small canoe crossing rough waters and, each, if only for their own sake, very much needs to care about the health, effectiveness, loyalty, devotion, etc. of their partner.

(3) Respect.

This means no contempt, destructive competition, silent treatment, sarcasm, sabotage, etc. permitted.

(4) Responsiveness.

They need to respond to each other. Each needs to feel needed and that their partner will have their back.

In a good relationship, really, there is no substitute for the couple needing each other and really knowing that.

lately i have been reading about the new studies on
attachment & bonding.
a basic secure connection with someone else is a BOND.
and through this bond, partners become emotionally
dependent on each other for nurturing, soothing and protection.
we have a wired in need for emotional contact and responsiveness from
significant others..it's a survival response..the need for secure attachment never disappears.
being attached to someone provides our greatest sense of security and safety. it means depending
on a partner to respond when you call or reach out, to know that you matter to him and that
you are cherished and that he will respond to your emotional needs.
emotional isolation is traumatizing for humans -  the brain actually
codes it as danger. i know how traumatized and devastated i was when my beloved husband of over 30 years
suddenly became ill and died in 2014.
 he was my MAIN long time basic secure connection.
friends, siblings, children & grandchildren all can help but NOTHING replaces that primary BOND we
once had with our long time partners for widows and widowers who had great relationships. google dr sue johnson and look at her videos on youtube. her books are
LOVE SENSE and HOLD ME TIGHT. People over age 50 are especially in need of secure attachment bonds.

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Cenzi

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Re: When the anger turns to sadness
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2017, 09:18:24 AM »
Reading this makes me feel like I've failed with him...I do want to be there for him, I do care about making him feel secure, that I will be there...but does that mean I neeed to support some of what I consider unreasonable needs?...like to be first before my children? I can't alienate my kids or abandon them...I don't see how letting her stay with me for 5 months takes anything away from out relationship...as posted earlier, since we see each other on weekends, we have plenty of opportunity on a weekend for privacy and intimacy when at my house...and we stay at his house many weekends.  If my daughter happens to come home from work at 10PM one night while we're at my place and there until 11AM the next morning...I can't see how delaying any further need for privacy...for a handful of hours..when there are other opportunities...creates a hardship.

I want those things too..support, affectionate, respect...a partner in life.. I'm so confused...do you think I let him down by having my daughter stay with me temporarily? are you saying I should have made him first? and told my daughter she can't move in?
Cenzi