The devalue stage

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CoffeeCup

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The devalue stage
« on: September 13, 2017, 05:34:23 AM »
After reading up on this, I know I'm very much so in the devalue stage of this relationship.

When H actions have got me angry, I stood up for myself and did not accept his poor behaviour. This lead to fights where I was blamed for being distant and having others influence me to act this way.

As I was reading about this stage, a lot hit home with me. He has criticized my family. He has criticized my friends. He has criticized my company.  He has criticized my style. Everything. He likes to scream and yell over things he gets angry at (mainly his ex wife) but I don't dare get mad at him for keeping his ex alive and well in our relationship. Sorry, I must simply accept she is here to stay and he must keep getting mad at her and fighting with her over the sake of the children.

The thing is, I know what he's doing right now. He has, once again, stopped telling me he loves me. He wants me to say it to show how much I love him. With others in his family, and his children, he will say that to them over and over again when I'm listening.

When I don't do this, he will blame me for not wanting this relationship, for wanting to leave, for being a horrible person for dragging this on for so long, etc. Sick sick sick game. That's what it is. My thought is, if you don't love me, that's fine. Let me go. But he doesn't. He has said multiple times he cannot imagine me out of his life, yet he treats me like he cannot stand me?

How do I handle this stage?  Do I just give him what he wants?  Just to keep the waters calm?

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Bre71

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 06:10:18 AM »
I'm going to start using this when she gets back you might try it now read it and see if it'll work for you.

http://www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com

" When you said that it seemed that you thought I did something wrong"

Read the page. It was enlightening. I downloaded the pdf.

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Associate of Daniel

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 07:11:25 AM »
I hope her sentences work for you.

But, at the risk of being discouraging, I know exactly how my u/npd ex H and his Nwife would respond:

"You did do something wrong. It's part of your m.o.. You only think of yourself.. etc."

All the best.

AOD

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CoffeeCup

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 07:18:41 AM »
I'm sort of confused.

I looked up that website, seemed to focus a lot on female behaviour wrt PD and emotions. I would hazard to guess dealing with a man is slightly different.

I will read through it when I have time. I'm not sure what I can do in the interim though. I know I'm going through devalue, I know I'm going around in circles with this man, I know he's going to eventually bring forth the - "you aren't interested. You want to leave. You are dragging this on" when he clearly isn't putting an ounce of effort into this relationship either.

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Shell92127

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 08:18:26 AM »
Sorry if you explained this before but have to given him a list in writing of what your needs are?
Stating what YOU need and want is always ok. Being accusatory is not.
Have you read any of Harville Hendricks work? He and his wife are couples therapists and have many
good suggestions. I know these mostly do not work with a PD person but you can try before giving up.
Then at least you know you tried. Will he go to see a therapist with you?

A definition of love I like is this: when your partner's needs rise to the level of your own needs.
and you would not do anything to intentionally hurt them.

In a good relationship you're supposed to get along, be happy, feel safe with them, have interesting conversations, minimal fighting, respect for each other, enjoy each other's company, deeply care about the other person, can see
sharing your life with them, enjoy being with them, want to travel with them, would stand up for them in times of conflict, can trust them, support them in times of sickness and need, can defy the odds with each other and believe problems can be resolved and all will turn out ok.

I think that these are necessary to have a very good, healthy relationship.

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CoffeeCup

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 08:33:09 AM »
Understood. However, this is beyond repair. I have recognized what I'm dealing with.  I am in the devalue stage. This is no longer about going to couples therapy and working through our issues. I believe I've mentioned before what H does - how when I try and explain my needs, I get shot down as selfish and making everything about me.

I have tried. I have told him when his words/actions have hurt me. He apologized during the beginning stages of our relationship but always made a comment - "well I do this because I feel this way or that way". Now there are zero apologies.

As I mentioned, I've tried, and I've recognized what I'm dealing with. I need advice on how to work through the devalue stage.

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Samuel S.

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 09:16:23 AM »
I am so very sorry that you are going through the devalue stage with him. He sounds like a very angry, very confused person. He is angry at his ex-wife. He is angry about others. Then, he says he loves people, but he intentionally does not say it to you. It seems like he wants his cake and eat it too. If anyone were to act and to say things to him like what he does and says, I suspect he would not like it.

All I hope is that you are taking care of yourself by doing those things that give you comfort and joy and to just hope and to pray that he will realize that you have loving feelings for him, although he is proving by his actions that he obviously is very angry and very confused. In a manner of speaking, a person whom you are with is like a salesperson. If he or she is selling a product (in this case, himself!)to you, then, he needs to prove that he is worthy to be bought, to be kept, and consistently and genuinely.

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Shell92127

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 09:28:10 AM »
Understood. However, this is beyond repair. I have recognized what I'm dealing with.  I am in the devalue stage. This is no longer about going to couples therapy and working through our issues. I believe I've mentioned before what H does - how when I try and explain my needs, I get shot down as selfish and making everything about me.

I have tried. I have told him when his words/actions have hurt me. He apologized during the beginning stages of our relationship but always made a comment - "well I do this because I feel this way or that way". Now there are zero apologies.

As I mentioned, I've tried, and I've recognized what I'm dealing with. I need advice on how to work through the devalue stage.

Ok thanks for explaining. This is the chosen relationships section so I take it you are choosing to stay?
You are not leaving him? Or you have not decided? I broke it off with my ex narc because everything was always my fault and he invalidated me repeatedly and I asked him many times to consider my feelings and point of view and he was incapable. To cope with being devalued I made lists of my good qualities and tried to find things to do that helped me feel good. Tried to spend time with normal people! I learned to meditate and I began taking Zoloft.
I took dance classes and did more volunteer work. I increased my exercise program. All these things added pleasure and joy and balance to my life. What are you doing to take care of yourself?

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Skippyd

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 09:30:59 AM »
Coffeecup, one of the concepts you should also look into is "I hate you.  Don't leave me"   there is a book by that title.   It is a known trait for PDs to give us every indication they don't love us and even hate us  but then express that they don't want us to leave them.  I lived with that push-pull for awhile.  In my case, she is like a toddler and wants all of my benefits but none of the associated downsides, commitments, reciprocation, etc. 

Also, look into narc supply / sources.   When I was in the idealized stage in the initial part of our relationship, I was her supply.  All seemed good.  When she devalued and discarded me, she picked up other supply sources / men for that role.   

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Shell92127

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2017, 09:44:37 AM »
Coffeecup, one of the concepts you should also look into is "I hate you.  Don't leave me"   there is a book by that title.   It is a known trait for PDs to give us every indication they don't love us and even hate us  but then express that they don't want us to leave them.  I lived with that push-pull for awhile.  In my case, she is like a toddler and wants all of my benefits but none of the associated downsides, commitments, reciprocation, etc. 

Also, look into narc supply / sources.   When I was in the idealized stage in the initial part of our relationship, I was her supply.  All seemed good.  When she devalued and discarded me, she picked up other supply sources / men for that role.

Excellent Skippyd! Yes these PD people are like toddlers. They love you when you please them and hate you when
you don't.

 THIS IS WHAT I SAID TO my now ex narc bf one time right after he yelled at me
about something very minor
.......................................
Now-here is a behavior change request i have for YOU:

When you speak to me about a problem or a concern, I want to always be able to FEEL the
love you have for me in your tone of voice. If I detect a tone of contempt or
criticism in your voice, I might react by becoming defensive to hide my fear of being
abandoned by you. I want your love and I want to feel heard and valued by you.
Please always talk to me as if I am someone you care about...I care about you and
I love you and I want YOU
to feel secure in my love for you too so please let me know what I can do to STRETCH for YOU.
.....................
Unfortunately he was not able to control himself and that's why he and I are no longer having a relationship.
I still love him but can't deal with his behavior. Prisons are full of people
who can not control their anger.
MY GUT told me my ex was dangerous and I had to save myself.  More about my now my ex bf and me - he was not a constructive element in my life he was a destructive one. He was draining me- not adding to my life in positive ways. oh well sometimes he did--that was the hook that kept me it in for so long. he COULD-AT TIMES- be sweet and caring and helpful and tender. when? here is when:

when all was going his way
when i had no needs of my own
when i was catering to his needs
when i was agreeing with him

but i am a person with needs and preferences of my own. i need to be heard and seen and treated with respect. he could not do that
except AT TIMES. and that was not good enough for me. I got out and am staying out and I have my life back again.
 :thumbup:

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CoffeeCup

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2017, 02:03:05 PM »
Understood. However, this is beyond repair. I have recognized what I'm dealing with.  I am in the devalue stage. This is no longer about going to couples therapy and working through our issues. I believe I've mentioned before what H does - how when I try and explain my needs, I get shot down as selfish and making everything about me.

I have tried. I have told him when his words/actions have hurt me. He apologized during the beginning stages of our relationship but always made a comment - "well I do this because I feel this way or that way". Now there are zero apologies.

As I mentioned, I've tried, and I've recognized what I'm dealing with. I need advice on how to work through the devalue stage.

Ok thanks for explaining. This is the chosen relationships section so I take it you are choosing to stay?
You are not leaving him? Or you have not decided? I broke it off with my ex narc because everything was always my fault and he invalidated me repeatedly and I asked him many times to consider my feelings and point of view and he was incapable. To cope with being devalued I made lists of my good qualities and tried to find things to do that helped me feel good. Tried to spend time with normal people! I learned to meditate and I began taking Zoloft.
I took dance classes and did more volunteer work. I increased my exercise program. All these things added pleasure and joy and balance to my life. What are you doing to take care of yourself?

I'm not planning on staying, but I didn't think my post belonged in the divorce/separation heading because I'm not there yet. Also, I didn't think it fit in the heading which deals with working through it, because I am not.

I'm doing some things to make me feel better about myself. I'm working out more, talking to friends, trying to see the beauty in every little thing. I don't know what else to do although I'll find ways I'm sure.

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Hattie

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2017, 04:53:00 PM »
Hey coffee cup, I'm in a similar stage to you tho I'm still not sure what I intend to do.  One big thing is just to accept where you are now.  It's ok to be unresolved.  It's ok not to be ready.  Stuff will inevitably work it's way out in time. I think you have the right idea-spend more time with friends,do your own thing,maybe take up a new hobby? get your affairs in order etc. Shahida Arabi has some good books on recovering from narcissistic abuse with tons of links to different websites, resources etc.  Check those out xx

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Shell92127

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2017, 05:12:12 PM »
coffeecup- Hattie's advice is good--it is ok to be undecided. And it's great you are working on yourself.
Take care of yourself! Nurture yourself. Try journaling. lean to meditate, walk, cry, dance, swim, breathe deep!
All of that will help you feel better !
 :)

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Skippyd

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2017, 06:08:52 PM »
 :yeahthat:
And sometimes they or other circumstances make the decision for you while you ponder things and wait.   So yes, take care of yourself until things get sorted out. 

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CoffeeCup

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Re: The devalue stage
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2017, 09:30:17 PM »
Thank you  :)

Unfortunately what I used to do for comfort doesn't feel right anymore. I'd be gardening, doing things around the house. Now I don't want to be here. This was my dream house too...oh well, more dream homes will come along.

I'm loving exercise right now.  Thinking of joining a book club. I'm sure that will make DH angry that I'm not spending time with him. That's the thing though. It's not like we do anything together. It's just sitting and watching him do his thing (drink, watch tv, listen to music).