Being held hostage in my home

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2018, 11:31:34 AM »
Update.....the T recommended he immediately go to live with father (my x).  I spoke with him that day and he refused saying that I was in a better place to effect change in almost-20-yo son.

This is why I'm divorced from him....never was wiling/able to step up to the table.  Why I expected differently is beyond me.

It's been several weeks.  There is basically a stalemate.  I was on travel last week.  There is limited to no communication between us.  No other out bursts.  No other property destruction.

I've heard from several family members:  the cat made the marks on the top of the chair (impossible b/c the ledge is only and inch wide and my one cat with nails doesn't go for wooden furniture she prefers to shred the sofa), mom's bf is being "mean" by ignoring him (duh....mom's bf was at the house and heard and saw all the drama and lost respect....and duh, mom isn't going to tell bf how to "feel" about someone), and (my personal favorite) I won the battle b/c I still have my knife (duh.....you lost more than you will ever understand and the fact that weeks later you still are more interested in "winning" speaks volumes about your ability to have relationship, apologize, empathize, recognize your part in relationship restoration).

I plan to have a conversation with him today.  I'm not sure where it's going to go, but I need to confront him about his behavior. 

momnthefog
"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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SonofThunder

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2018, 11:50:47 AM »
momnthefog,
So here are the steps I'd take:

1.  I would cut off the internet and say no more net in the house no matter who pays for it.
2.I'd give him 30 days to find a job and move out.
3. After that I'd transfer the phone to his name and he can pay it or have it cut off.
4. If the car is still in your name I'd sell it.
5. If he still hasn't moved out then next I would have the bedroom door removed and everything except a bed and a blanket removed from the room.

Dr Phil has a book on parenting I like. Here is a link: https://www.drphil.com/advice/parenting-through-change/
He advocates for "Commando Parenting" when thing get to the point you are at. That means developing the attitude of doing whatever it takes to get behavior change and have kids, grown or not, to start making better choices and taking responsibility for their own lives. Just my 2 cents.

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Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in contented peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

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SonofThunder

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2018, 12:01:36 PM »
Momnthefog,

So sorry you have to deal with this and fully understand your exaustion.  I agree with Coyote on the tough love.  It seems that although he is physically handicapped, that he is able to work.  Since he is an adult, my opinion is he should be treated like one and either move out to a place alone or find a roommate (but not go live with dad which is not what is best for your son as it does not help him develop as an adult).  It sounds as if he is quite mentally and socially capable and he can hold a job (albiet PT vs FT which would best for an adult). 

You mentioned ‘spring break’ so im assuming he is in college or has friends in college, therefore another reason to assume his mental and social capacities are ok and a further reason to have him move out of YOUR house and into one of his own. 

In a mentality of love, you can explain to him that you want what is best for him and ALSO for you both, as your relatiinship is strained with him living at home and you think it may improve greatly if he lived on his own and you two got together at times to catch up and socialize, like is normal for two adult family members. That puts a positive spin into the move-out requirement as well.

Best of luck and again, i side with Coyotes advice. 

SoT
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 12:03:31 PM by SonofThunder »
Proverbs 17:1
A meal of bread and water in contented peace is better than a banquet spiced with quarrels.

2 Timothy 1:7
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

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chowder

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2018, 01:40:04 PM »
Momnthefog,

I'm so sorry you're going through this.  What a rollercoaster.  Some days you think he gets it, other days he demonstrates he does not.

As you know, I've been going through a situation with our daughter - and one option that I haven't seen mentioned in your posts, that was mentioned in ours, was perhaps getting a restraining order.  I know it may seem drastic, and we don't want to do that unless absolutely necessary, but that story with the knife and property damage is scary - especially since he's still in possession of the knife, and he could erupt with it at any moment.  The clock incident didn't seem to have anything that led up to it, rather it seemed random, with no logical explanation.

Praying for you....

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Free2Bme

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2018, 08:51:40 AM »
Mom, I have been off the forum for several months and couldn’t sleep so I logged. I am saddened to hear this update from back in April about your troubles with your son.  As in the past, you seem to have a good grip on the reality of ds situation but just need a plan of action.  I am enduring similar situation here w my 18yo son.  He spent majority of senior year in alternative school for starting conflict, then dropped out. He is reclusive, does not often engage with siblings or me, and began staying up during night gaming.  A year and half ago, I removed pocket knives due to his instability, he now regularly demands them back, claiming he is now stable.
  I was frightened to hear that your son did this to your chair and desk. I have looked into family law related to eviction in my state. It seems that it isn’t a simple process. In my state, there are tennant’s rights, squatters rights, and a 30 day notice of eviction procedure that must be followed.  I have contemplated setting him up in a econo apartment for maybe 3 months just to get him out from under my roof. However, this is expensive and I am going on the third year of divorcing my 4 children’s PD dad.  I’m a full time student, and gearing  up for a custody battle exNPDh will be launching to take younger kids from me.  Ex won’t help w his oldest (problem) son, just wants to use situation to make me look like unfit mother/home. I began unplugging WiFi router when I go to bed. Last night he came to my bedroom door and “politely “ asked me to turn back on bc he was on FaceTime w girlfriend. I believe this is a lie, but I said ok, this time, but in future it goes off when I go to bed. I imagine this will be a new battle ground for us.  Older sibling (college student) is wearing thin w brother, and I am sinking into depression.  You have been through so much with your family , I am sorry for you that you must endure once again.  I too am a believer and struggle with my faith in this situation.  I keep trying to love the unlovable, just as I believe that I am loved by God. But son seems to have renounced his faith and is given over, at least right now, to some ugly behaviors.  I constantly look for signs that he sees the grace I pour out on him, but It seems that he refuses to recognize all the good I do for him.  This is heartbreaking and feels like death to me.  I miss the son that he was before his depression. It’s like he got very sick and came out of it a deferent person.  The psychiatric nurse practitioner has suggested borderline Pd.  I will keep you in thought and prayer, update when you can.

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2018, 10:55:00 AM »
Thanks all for the feedback.

I've been somewhat silent about this issue for a number of reasons.  Mostly I've been really busy myself, mission trip, new grandbaby.

Regarding the son.  Since the last call to the police things have been very quiet from him.

He tried several times to rewrite history with family members about what happened and everyone shut  him down.  He tried to triangulate and each brother or sister basically told him to thank his lucky stars, shut up, get a job, and get on with his life.  He does not seem to respond to warm, cuddly, supportive talk, but honestly seems to thrive when he's chewed out.

in mid May he (and according to him) several others from his fast food job were fired.  He showed me the txt from the owner where it said don't take it personally.  Frankly I think the owner did him a big did-service by not telling him why he was fired.  I know of at least two instances where he showed up for work with 3-4 days of scruff without shaving.

Anyway....he's had 1.5 months, actually much longer, to find another job.  I've taken him to two appointments with vocational counselors.  He plays stupid, acts like he has no idea what to do, how to get a job.

The internet to his room will be turned off on 1 Jul and it will not be turned on until he has a full time job or a part time job and is in school full time.  He will start paying 10 rent a week in the month of Jul.  Each month that will increase by 10, until he is paying 50 per week.

We had a very calm discussion about all of this.  He complained that it will be difficult to find a job without internet and I reminded him that there's a home computer downstairs he can use or he can drive to the library.

The next item to go away will be the car (which he doesn't abuse) but is needed for his younger sister who will get her license soon and is working full time this summer.

I'm at peace with this.  It's not what many recommended, but I'm keeping notes every time we interact, and I have the support of his dad (my x), and my bf.

momnthefog

"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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Latchkey

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2018, 11:23:41 PM »
momnthefog,
Just checking in and seeing how things are going this week. I've heard so many parents of mostly boys and myself included dealing with the computer gaming obsession from a young age on.
I hope this week with all the changes that you are seeing some improvement in the situation. I would say you have to protect yourself and your other kids and your belongings as this escalation is pretty scary.
I'm wondering too, if some other things might be changing in your S's mind and his diagnosis as his behavior is changing so much from where it was in the past. It's something to consider and maybe speak with his doctors about as well if you think it is appropriate.
 :bighug:
Latchkey
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Bloomie

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2018, 11:46:33 PM »
Weighing in here a bit late to simply offer support and a :hug: Thankful you have an immediate plan in place in the coming weeks. I am just so sorry this is all unfolding in such a painful way. Stay safe dear momnthefog!
Bloomie 🌸

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Wild Lupines

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2018, 03:16:35 AM »
Hope its okay to add my thoughts, based on experience...

momnthefog, I get the impression you adopted your kids and they have special needs and disabilities. I did the same. I have adopted several from foster care and fostered others.

Adopted kids with disabilities don't always act their age and can have tons of trauma and other issues that mean the usual parenting tough love strategies won't work. It's like throwing your kid in the pool expecting them to learn how to swim. That might work for a strong, confident fearless kid, but not for one in a wheelchair.

Your son sounds very much like RAD. (Reactive Attachment Disorder) and that can definitely morph into a full blow PD as they age. The cutting of furniture, the threats and pity party, the lack of empathy for you, all sound very RADISH as we say. One of mine had RAD but thankfully I was able to parent him successfully until he developed a conscience. But he was young when I got him and it took a ton of work.

I'm sure you've explored other possible challenges like FAS and intellectual disability that can make this all harder too.

The way I deal with such issues is to have firm boundaries that are developmentally appropriate for my kids. Say I have a teenager who is 19 but really more like a 13 year old in terms of cognitive and emotional development. So I parent her like a 13 year-old, with respect, of course.

The point is to not let their disabilities mean you abandon all boundaries and expectations.

I'd be careful setting out expectations like him paying rent unless you are willing to follow through with swift and meaningful consequences. What if he doesn't pay? Then he knows he won.

If he has any intellectual disability or learning challenges he may not think at all in terms of "I better do X because if I don't mom won't do Y next month." Lots of kids with learning challenges can't think ahead like that. Instead they respond to very certain immediate rewards and consequences. I use the Carrot and Stick approach. They know if they don't follow through the consequences is immediate but if they do the reward is also immediate. The key is meaningful, swift rewards and consequences.

Perhaps you could tell your son that AS SOON as he gets a job he gets all the internet he wants. But if he loses the job the internet stops immediately.  You can add other incentives or consequences as you see fit. The idea is to frame it around immediate rewards and consequences.

If you think he is capable of driving himself to vocational, and is just acting stupid, then stop all driving and enabling. Instead, offer the reward and frame it as a treat to celebrate HIM.

It's tough to find good moments in such struggles, but the more you can mix the firm rules with genuine pleasure over him the better. He should be hearing praise for the times he acts ethically, no matter how small. If you witness him being kind to a stranger, for instance, that is a time to heap joyful praise, so your firm consequences come later, a tiny little part of him wishes he had pleased his mom so he would have heard that praise instead.

Another idea is to contact your community liaison officer, or community police officer, if you have one. Many areas do. Invite him or her out to talk to you. Tell them what is happening. Have them meet your son, tell him the expectations. Having that officer's card on the fridge with your adult child knowing Officer Friendly is ready and willing to come over can be a powerful tool. It's that village concept that some kids respond to very well.

I have several young adult kids and fosters with special needs living with me right now. I have posted house rules and very standards for interactions. Nothing harsh, all warm and friendly. For those with learning disabilities I am hands on and use respectful simple language to communicate. I don't see it is as "normal" parenting but it can be extremely rewarding.

As hard as it right now, keep your mind on the longterm goal: an independent, civil, responsible adult.

Hope its okay I offered these thoughts.

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2018, 08:53:05 AM »
wild lupines,

thank you very much.  Its wonderful to hear from other parents with adopted/fostered kids/teens/young adults.

yes, i believe there's some degree of RAD.  IME, you just don't make it out of the Soviet orphanage system without some level of adjustment/attachment issues.  On the spectrum I'd say his are mild/moderate.  Until those two outburst, he was a civil, obedient young man and we had typical teen behavior from time to time.  Compared to his non-disabled older brothers he was honestly a walk in the park in many ways.

He's finished hs as an honor graduate.  he has a car with adaptive devices and drives.  he's plugged into the local rehab vocational counseling center.  He has a counselor and can make appointments there at any time he wants.

in the past month i've had several sit down discussions with him and he's responding better.  he's keeping notes of what he does daily regarding job hunting and job training. we've discussed being a boat on the waves....do we shut down our engines and drift or continue to move forward?  what happens when we shut down our engines?

he has started paying 10 a week in rent this week which i believe to be reasonable at this point.  He has a cell phone and car insurance that i pay, this will help a little to offset that expense. 

I agree with your statement that RAD can develop into a full blown PD....I wish I'd been better prepared 25+ years ago when I completed my first adoption. 

I'm also concerned about internet and gaming.  My son's actions when the internet was shut off were not unlike an addict who was getting clean.  For that reason I am unwilling to ever go back to unlimited internet in my home. 

yes, yes....my goal is to raise an independent, civil, responsible adult!

thank you wild lupines very much and feel free any time to offer your insight!

momnthefog

"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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Wild Lupines

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2018, 04:22:46 PM »
Thank you, momnthefog!

So nice to see another adoptive momma here!

I totally hear you on the addictive nature of the gaming. I think they design those games to be addictive. I've had two sons now who got addicted. In both cases I had to remove all xboxes, controllers, etc, in order to help them with their addiction.

I'm glad to hear he's doing better!

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2018, 11:34:28 AM »
Just an update. 

A couple of weeks ago I met with him and his vocational counselor.  She (in a very nice way) called him out for dropping off in contacting her. 

He agreed to move forward with new (and better focused) efforts.  We agreed (in the meeting) that I would be cc'ed on all emails.
 
She sent him a list of 5 things to do. 

He did not cc me on the emails.  20 years old and he claimed to not understand what it means to cc someone on an email.  O.k.  I painstakingly show him cc and bcc and explain what it means, how it's used, and why I need to see the emails.  A week later, I'm still not cc'ed on the emails.

But it gets better......

I sit down with him 5 nights in a row.  Check in with him discuss what next steps are.  Listen to him talk about taking one community college class in the fall that vocational counselor will pay for.

THEN....I remind him of the deadline for tightening limits on internet.  I cut his to 6am - 6 pm.....b/c on most days, he's using his phone (interesting work around) to watch movies all night, and plays games after spending 1-2 hours "looking for a job." 

So that night I change the router to cut off internet to his computer at 6pm.

Since then, he has basically lived at a friends house.  He was home for 15 mins yesterday and got into the car to drive away.  I made him get out and told him....no job/school.....no car.  He complied.....all the better to play the victim.

But I don't care.  For the first time in a LONG time.....I'm detached.

momnthefog

P.s.  I've been listening to George Simon discuss character disorders and manipulation techniques.  I believe that has helped my resolve in letting thing play out and for him to become an adult.

"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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Bloomie

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2018, 01:29:56 PM »
momnthefog - holding him accountable to follow through on agreed upon actions is love and the very best hope to move him forward in his life. I can only imagine the frustration this must bring you when you, and others in your son's life are fighting harder for an independent and stable future than he is.

I have also found the work of Dr. George Simon to be a great help with those in my family who obfuscate and stonewall and are responsibility avoidant using a myriad of manipulative tactics.

Have you ever seen any of the youtube videos/interviews with Patrick Doyle? They cover a wide variety of subjects and are down to earth, no nonsense, straight up help. They are faith based so that is important to note, but very helpful. A list of topics/videos is found here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Veritas+counseling

Sending you strength and wisdom! :hug:
Bloomie 🌸

"You've gotta know when it's time to turn the page." Tori Amos

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2018, 05:05:46 PM »
Oh my, binging on Patrick Doyle.....I love it!

Thanks Bloomie for the suggestion.

momnthefog
"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2018, 04:01:46 PM »
Update......son is now refusing to do the few assigned chores (taking trash out, putting cans beside road for pickup and cleaning up his dishes after a meal). 

He's spent 300 on games in the past 3 weeks (he started with $800 when he lost his job in April).

When I called him on not getting his chores done. I got a response about taking away his car and internet.

SO......I have cut off the internet to his computer in his room.  Home computer is available downstairs if he wants to be in contact with his vocational counselor or look for a job.  (She hasn't heard from him since last week).

And....I moved the remainder of his money to an account that he can not access.  He hasn't figured his out yet, but I'll be damned if I'm having to dole out gas and haircut money b/c of games.  He hasn't figured this out yet.

He flat out told me he wasn't going to do any chores.  He left last night about 8 and hasn't been back since.

His buddy totaled his mother's car last Sat, drinking, cops came to the house the his friends parent's had him lie to cover it up b/c they didn't want him in trouble..  UN-BE-LIEV-ABLE.

momnthefog

"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."

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Bloomie

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2018, 07:17:41 PM »
momnthefog - so much resistence has to be incredibly frustrating and concerning. Did I understand it right that the friend's PARENTS had your son lie to the cops to cover up for their son? 😳
Bloomie 🌸

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momnthefog

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Re: Being held hostage in my home
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2018, 11:36:32 PM »
No. Thankfully my sin wasn't with him. He was home that night. And son doesn't drink or use drugs.

The other parents told their son to lie to police.

He's digging a hole for sure.


"She made broken look beautiful and strong look invincible.  She walked with the universe on her shoulders and made it look like a pair of wings."