Are there no pd DIL posts?

[Leonor]

Hi Tea Lady,

Kindness to you!

When emotions are surging this intensely, it is hard to communicate.

You don't have to "fix" anything.

You don't have to "work it out".

You don't have to "make it better".

After all, isn't that what you have been trying so desperately to do?

And nothing seems to be working.

It sounds to me like women in your family are responsible for the family's emotional and practical work.

No wonder you and your dil are struggling. You are both exhausted.

I wonder if rather than approaching your s or dil, you might talk to your supportive h.

What can h do to pitch in? Can he take some caretaking tasks? Can he help arrange some help with your child? Can he take over for you to get out of the house ... not for therapy or drs. appts. Just for you to see a movie or take a walk or a bath. Or a nap!

Let your h support you and your s support his wife.

They'll be fine. The children, young and adult, will be fine.

You, however, are deserving of a warm cuppa and quiet time.

[tea-lady]

Hi Leonor,               Thankyou for your really kind gestures. I really do love my cuppa tea. I have many of them on the run. I have been in talks with my husband over care of our daughter but he does see what I do for her as my job. I am taking myself off to a one hour massage very soon and also sitting in a salt room. I have awful sinus issues too frequently and can have a migraine for 35 or so hours. I am going to let things be with son's partner. My son is a terrific partner and father. He does more than his fare share, if he is too tired to prepare meals after his long day in labour work they have to get take out. He is more hands on with everything children and housework than anyone I know. I appreciate your supportive words.

[Moon]

Hi Tea Lady, you sound exhausted and needing some down time.  It sounds like your DIL stresses you so perhaps some time away from her might do you good.  I understand that you can't talk to your son and DIL and don't want to put any stress on them which is very thoughtful.  You seem to be taking this personally, which when you think about it, it's not your problem.  It's your DIL's problem, your DIL isn't treating you poorly because you have done something wrong, she's treating you poorly because your DIL has a problem and she's upset you aren't fixing it for her.  So it's really not about you, it's about her.  I think it would help you to leave all the anguish with DIL.  Easy said than done, I know.

After reading that your DIL has a shopping addiction and problems with money I get the feeling that maybe these negative reactions from your DIL are coming from a purely selfish place.  Your DIL has a problem and is looking to you to help her out and when you can't do that, she is lashing out.  That's not fair on you.  It's not your job or your place to fix these problems for them.  It's 100% on your son and DIL to fix their own problems.  Keep being emotionally supportive for your son but I wouldn't be helping out with your time or money that you can't afford at this stage.  You certainly don't need to feel guilty about not giving them money or free lodging.  They are adults it's on them to manage their own life.  If DIL is upset that other people aren't rescuing her then again this is DIL's problem, not yours.

I wonder if it's time to stop thinking about them so much and just stop and take a breath.  Give yourself some time.  DIL is busy with a new baby, she'll be distracted so use this time to give yourself some space (from her).  Start to think about what is going to make YOU happy.  What do you want to do for Christmas this year?  Do it.  Make your own plans.  Invite your son and DIL and don't be drawn in to whether they can come or not.  Or go away this Christmas. Don't let your DIL dictate Christmas and ruin it.  Plan something you will enjoy and if they are there then great, if they aren't, meh you'll enjoy your day regardless.  Take care, I hope you enjoy the salt bath.

[DejectedDIL]

I always had in the back of my mind when things were honeymoon phase (new grandparents), how long is this going to last?

I submit that you may have had a preconceived notion from this statement.  We all, at times, wear our emotions and feelings like a badge.  How did your behavior translate this to your DIL?  You mention that you had a honeymoon phase and everything seemed to be wonderful.  Something had to change it.  From the responses you are getting from her, I would say that she is "grayrocking" you very hard.  Grayrocking is taught in therapy and even on these boards.   Now, I'm not saying you did anything.  It could be a HUGE misunderstanding, but I feel like something happened to convey to her that you expected it to all go south.  And it was very well something that you didn't intend to do or convey.

[tea-lady]

I always had in the back of my mind when things were honeymoon phase (new grandparents), how long is this going to last?

I submit that you may have had a preconceived notion from this statement.  We all, at times, wear our emotions and feelings like a badge.  How did your behavior translate this to your DIL?  You mention that you had a honeymoon phase and everything seemed to be wonderful.  Something had to change it.  From the responses you are getting from her, I would say that she is "grayrocking" you very hard.  Grayrocking is taught in therapy and even on these boards.   Now, I'm not saying you did anything.  It could be a HUGE misunderstanding, but I feel like something happened to convey to her that you expected it to all go south.  And it was very well something that you didn't intend to do or convey.

Hi DejectedDIL

  Trying to wrangle what I need  to say and its not easy to articulate, but when her red flags were up and there were many. I  didn't like the way she would run people down and criticise.

I didn't want to be part of that, so I would get on the floor and play with the kids. There were times she would rant loudly that   her 4 year old was a retard in front of her, because she would change her clothes about 4 times a day and she would also love to try on her mothers clothes and that drove her nuts and she would scream at her.

FDIL would rant that she was sick of her rental and wanted to buy a house but couldn't save money if her life depended on it. I know that its the job of the grandparents (3 sets) to rescue her in her wants. I've heard and seen her enough to know.

She would put up photos of her children/babies with rashes, high fevers, ear infections on facebook and of course there would be loads of posts with sympathy. But when I would panic and go see them, they were fine and she said, they are good. Only in my opinion and opinions are not facts, she loves to snuggle and cuddle her babies, its when they try and have minds and wishes and wants of their own  when they are 3, 4 and beyond there can be a screaming match.

She is ignoring all my efforts to support her, I guess I have nothing more to offer her and thats why she is ignoring me. Being a grandparent comes with healthy boundaries, but these conditions I'm feeling are too invasive. It's like FDIL had a idea of what being a grandparent looks to her and its not working because it takes compromise she is not willing to work with.

Only if you want, I have an unsent letter in unsent letters forum 'we were your star but the light has dimmed'

I want to know how to proceed with her. I think I'm dealing with a fdil with a personality disorder of sorts.

Can anyone please help me move forward. I am not a narcissistic MIL. I am though affected by my past.  It may possible that she has a personality disorder.

[notrightinthehead]

I think you are already doing the right thing by using medium chill and focusing on the children. I would give the children as much love and emotional support as I could. If their mother has a PD, they will have it tough. And it always helps a child to know that there is somebody who loves them as they are.

[tea-lady]

I think you are already doing the right thing by using medium chill and focusing on the children. I would give the children as much love and emotional support as I could. If their mother has a PD, they will have it tough. And it always helps a child to know that there is somebody who loves them as they are.

Thank-you, I miss them. I can't see them if she's punishing me cause I'm not controllable.

[DejectedDIL]

It does sound like that Tea Lady..   I'm sorry for you and I'm sorry for her children.  My DH lived like that most of his childhood and it has taken a great toll on his mental health.   What I will do is pray for you, if you don't mind?

[jbtalt6]

After being the DIL of a NMil for over 30 years now, I have realized something since *I* am now an MILx2 so far...most NMils were once NDaughter-in-laws. Yes, they are most definitely out there. as I may be dealing with one now. I took everything I learned from being on the receiving end of a brutal, hateful, narcissistic woman and do the opposite. Even though I am having a tough time relating to, understanding, not feeling diminished by and spoken down to by one of the DILs (the other one I get along with beautifully), I still could never bring myself to treat her the way NMIL treated me. I am struggling, but I have learned my lesson and learned it well!  (N? BPD?) DIL will NEVER be able to say with any ounce of truth that I have treated her badly. I will bite my tongue until it bleeds before I say a cross word to her. Not to say I will not set boundaries, because I most definitely have. I actually make sure I'm not around her any more than is necessary. I will not let her speak disrespectfully to me anymore after a few sessions with my T and learning ways to stand up for myself without coming across as a "b" word    My son doesn't have any children with her at this point. She is a step-mother to my gchild and there have been issues there with her "taking over" as gate-keeper with her, despite me having a very smooth relationship with the bio-mother.

You have my sympathies, Tea-lady. It's a tough road to walk to be sure. 

[tea-lady]

It does sound like that Tea Lady..   I'm sorry for you and I'm sorry for her children.  My DH lived like that most of his childhood and it has taken a great toll on his mental health.   What I will do is pray for you, if you don't mind?

Thankyou DejectedDIL, sorry for your DH's mental health, I'll pray for him too and yourself. Thankyou for your prayers. I had the moment to  ask my son when his partner was out briefly and he said yes, she is annoyed with you tealady for not  helping out more with grandchildren. I've told her before nicely, that my daughter gets govt funding and I need to use it, its not optional and we could get less if they see we dont make use of it the next time.

[tea-lady]

After being the DIL of a NMil for over 30 years now, I have realized something since *I* am now an MILx2 so far...most NMils were once NDaughter-in-laws. Yes, they are most definitely out there. as I may be dealing with one now. I took everything I learned from being on the receiving end of a brutal, hateful, narcissistic woman and do the opposite. Even though I am having a tough time relating to, understanding, not feeling diminished by and spoken down to by one of the DILs (the other one I get along with beautifully), I still could never bring myself to treat her the way NMIL treated me. I am struggling, but I have learned my lesson and learned it well!  (N? BPD?) DIL will NEVER be able to say with any ounce of truth that I have treated her badly. I will bite my tongue until it bleeds before I say a cross word to her. Not to say I will not set boundaries, because I most definitely have. I actually make sure I'm not around her any more than is necessary. I will not let her speak disrespectfully to me anymore after a few sessions with my T and learning ways to stand up for myself without coming across as a "b" word    My son doesn't have any children with her at this point. She is a step-mother to my gchild and there have been issues there with her "taking over" as gate-keeper with her, despite me having a very smooth relationship with the bio-mother.

You have my sympathies, Tea-lady. It's a tough road to walk to be sure. 

Hi jbtalt6 Thanks for your post. I can sense the dilemma you are in with your N? DIL. She seems similar to my son's partner, they are getting married in less than 12 weeks now, She has a count down app to the day. She was on some kind of 'Hi' the other night as her mother was there and her sister and the buzz/chaos was/is son's partner's sister is having trouble getting her 12 yr old daughter back home from being with her bio father in another state, he is being the fun dad and back here they have bought her flight tickets to come home but she's not getting on the flight and staying with bio dad. The talk is about  federal police getting involved . I dont get the high these people are on with this topic, to me its tragic, but it seems to be a feeding frenzy of sorts for them. I was shocked.

Are some of what you learnt with T available in the toolbox here, trouble for me is I feel that standing up for myself comes across as uncaring and selfish. How do I stand up for myself without coming across as sounding like a 'B' I am always looking for validation and reassurance and being the nice nanna was part of it, but now my daughter really needs me. I have told son's partner all this before.

I had a chance to ask son if his partner has  with issue as I suspect by her rudeness and bluntness in her messages to my offers of  availability to help her. He said yes she is annoyed with you tea lady for not helping with the grandchildren. She had specifiic times for me  to babysit that I just couldnt do, but not willing to work with me on when I could.

I said to my son if you and your partner  had a child diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder wouldn't you be doing all you can to make sure they have all the chances to be independent for when  you are no longer able to? I get government funding and they are not too pleased if 12 months later the funds didn't get used. Just this new week coming up there is something everyday for my daughter, disability employment appointment, new meeting with a new program for full day program, drama workshop, psychologist, dentist and cooking.

I'll give you one of these jbtalt6, cant see the emoji so 'hugz' so proud of you for standing up for your boundaries.

[Rose1]

I also am a carer for my adult d. Trust me she's your responsibility and your grandchildren are your son and dil's. If you have any energy left (and this will get worse as you get older, not better) you might enjoy spending some time with your grandchildren. I don't see how a schedule of expectations is remotely polite or fair. You haven't agreed to it. If your dil takes offense than that's on her.
I would make it plain to your son that you only have so much energy in the day and you are doing your best to manage your responsibilities without having to call on his help with your daughter. You don't have time or energy for other people's responsibilities. You would be happy to see your grandchildren within your capabilities.

I get the funding thing but it's not really about that. It's about your stuff, their stuff. Would he drop everything to take your d to therapy should you be sick? Your dil might feel entitled and put that on your son but feelings are not facts. I would just say you have too much on your plate already and they need to make other arrangements for baby sitting.

Take care

[jbtalt6]

The poster above is right, tea-lady. You don't "owe" baby-sitting to your son and his partner.  I'm sorry they're not more understanding. It's a fine line to walk.

I did let N? DIL get the better of me this past week at my son's bday dinner. She sat right across from me at the restaurant (mistake number one...I had vowed to never sit so close as to HAVE to speak one-on-one to her. I don't yet trust myself not to get drawn in to a power play-type conversation) So, of course, we got in to a sticky conversation and it began to get "politely hostile." I was SO disappointed in myself!  She was trying to state facts pertaining to her rights as a step-mother (which I know positively to be NOT true) and I started challenging her, not in a rude way. It got a bit heated, but I backed off before it got out-of-hand. I have really, really looked for the positive traits in her, and there are a few. But she's got that "one-up you" personality and knows EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING and gives her opinion, stated as FACT, on EVERYTHING!

I'm still learning...clearly. I am an emotional person, and "grey-rocking" is proving to be difficult for me!  In my head, I know that arguing and trying to prove DIL wrong is a losing battle. I will just continue to mind my own business, and only see her when I have to.

I wish I had better advice for you. It's hard when you're dealing with someone who doesn't seem to have any empathy or understanding for what you're challenges are.  You'll have to tell them you're happy to help, when it's convenient for you since you have other commitments and responsibilities. You know, if they get mad, they just do. We have to stop feeling so responsible for everyone else's feelings and pay a bit of attention to our own. I can only guess how many years the NMIL situation has taken off my life due to the guilt, c-ptsd, etc. that I dealt with. I'm just sorry it's cropped up again with a DIL. 

Anyway, thanks for the    One right back to you!

[Malini]

I've been following this thread, because I believe my SiL to be an N, she was just out-narced by her own MiL. Enough people post about NSiLaws so many of them must be NDiLs too. I'm really sorry you're going through this tea lady and think Rose1 has an excellent response for you.

I tried so hard to be a good SiL, was available for a ton of help and support and in the end my uNSiL accused me of being too much like my NM for her to want to be around me. I believe she wants to isolate and alienate my B from the only family he has and finally found the most drastic way to do so, but any pretext would have been good enough. Perhaps you can still maintain a bond with your son whilst protecting yourself from NDiL. It's clear he will choose her over you if push comes to shove, and as crazy at it may sound, that is the way it should be. He can't fight your battles with NDiL for you, and these battles lead to nowhere anyway. I've made myself unavailable for any more help and support to uNSiL. Luckily B still wants to maintain a relationship with me and my family, so we don't speak of SiL and focus on more positive stuff.

You don't have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm (helpful quote from this forum) and your first duty is to your FOC and daughter. If your son and DiL can't see this for themselves, you'll just have to show them by your actions, which speak louder than words. You've done your best to be a supportive MiL, but it isn't good enough, and nothing probably would be. Your D's needs supersede everything, apart from your own wellbeing and you owe it to her to be well enough in order to care and support her.

Take care of yourself.

[fkpp]

I'm with ya.  Surprised there are not more posts.  I could really use some information on this myself.

[relief1925]

Hi! Stepping in on a daughter in law perspective...
I can garentee you that my in laws see me as an abusive and bullying witch. I too have sent abrupt messages to them..like you've been asked though, are the abusive? I've never been rude, merely expressed my frustration to certain situations and disregard to my rules and boundaries.  In their eyes that is rude...so they tell my husband. Seems I must keep quiet whilst I'm being trampled on. I text becuase I am quite deaf, I can't talk on the phone and I quite simply cannot talk to their face as it's just inpossible to communicate with these people. I'm not saying that she is innocent and you're in the wrong...just speaking from the other side.

Occasions, we used to donit all, it did stop when I had my first child..why? Becuase they took over and I wanted myself and my husband to find our way. Come, say hi, have a cuppa, give your gift but we are off out! We want to spend it as a family 🤷‍♀️
You sound as though you're doing what I've done for years, trying to fix things or put it right, but whonis that for? Unfortunately for you your daughter in law has decided on the time slot for visit, that is her prerogative! It may seem unfair to you but she is mum and they have plans, I get that. But oh can't change that, while you're trying your aggravating the situation maybe? Enjoy the time you're offered.
My in-laws have never offered to help, nothifng, I'm not thankful of that. But also, they are never satisfied with the time they are given they push and push...but this is my turn right? My turn to do they occasions.  Maybe it's a matter of control from her part?

[tea-lady]

My thought is pd DILs become that MIL that most people are more familiar with, hence there not being that many posts on difficult DILs.

I have given  updDIL and sons family a 3month break and its bitten me severely .I've had novel sized text from her and many of them of blame shifting and guilt. All because we asked son to drop by with the kids for  easter jammies and chocolate. In the past when we've visited she sits in her room, or another room or takes off to the shops.. I thought I was doing her a favour by staying away, but no I'm an awful, selfish grandparent along with my husband.

She has compared me with her other 2 sets of parents and belittled us , we messaged her and explained  her inaccuracies and that messenger history kept a record of all our conversations and I told her of the inaccuracies, assumptions and things that didnt add up. She  said I could not buy their love and the kids were not getting our easter gift. She said I could not watch her kids grow  up on facebook and deleted us from fb. She also says that if we want to see them its  has to be at their place. Of course coming from that  past abusive household myself as a child.  I am falling for the guilt.

I've come from a household, of narcs so I am aware of the tactics and have become heightened. I feel like I could be baited for more of the same. I know how this turns out. Very noisy background, lots of guilt ridden yelling and accusations and from me a complete loss of focus.   DIL is reminding me of my past. Why do these people find me?

My messages to her were of the schedule I have for my daughter (autism spectrum) and how busy that is, her assumptions being not right and that messenger was proof. Also us stating that compromise is good for everyone and thats how most families do it best and hoping to sort things out, so that we could be in the grandkids lives.

I said to her in the past that trying to talk in her place with lots of noise is really difficult and at best impossible and this is where she wants me and my husband. So my hyper ness to pd folks ,is she wants me out of focus and  clarity to attack. I've heard the way she talks to her mother and I just want the ground to swallow me up and that fact haunts me now. My husband and I  feel like I've had my guts ripped out this past week. We are drained.

[Starlightgirl]

I am sensing a power struggle between both of you.

My advice is to teach your dil how to treat you by maintaining firm boundaries while dropping the rope.

Give your dil some space.

My in-laws suggested family counseling with the statement that this way there would be no superior positioning.  But I'm the parent.  Grandparents are not second parents.

  I understand grandparents' desire to be involved but that is a privilege, not a right.  I refuse to compromise my fundamental beliefs on parenting to "get along" with my in-laws.  They had their turn in raising their kids.  This is my family and it is my turn to do so with my husband and their quest to be "involved" is a ploy to justify their intrusion and meddling in my marriage and parenting. 

My in-laws call me selfish and declared that I'm breaking up "the family."

This is bc my in-laws see themselves as the head of the family and they out-rank my dh and me.  They call for "compromise" and "communication" in how my dh and I raise our children, spend our vacations and holidays, educate our children, celebrate milestones.

But dh and I have expressed in many ways that we run the show, we are united and the co-heads of our family, and we do not need to share or ask permission on how to live our lives. 

Just because they feel like we are shutting them out, does not mean we are doing something wrong. 

I'm in my 40s and I don't need to be mothered by my mil regardless if it hurts her feelings to be sidelined. 

If/when she talks to you disrespectfully, tell her she must do so respectfully.  If she is rude to you, do not respond but disengage.  Drop the rope.  Do not engage in circular arguments bc that just fuels the problem.

If she chooses to punish you by withholding her kids, that's up to her husband (your son) to address.

If she is emotionally abusive to her husband, again, that is up to her husband to address.

So just drop the rope.

And let your son manage his household.

Good luck.  Wishing you the best!

[tea-lady]

 Starlighgirl,   Thankyou for your story and insight. I'm not one of those MIL wanting to assert my place in family. You and your husband are head and front of yours rightly so. My own mother thought I was 'snotty b****' for wanting to do things my way when my kids were little, we had power type disagreements.

She always told me I was doing it wrong.  I did demand feeds with my babies, she told me I should do it the way  they did  back in the 60's  4 hourly by the clock, she got angry when I had a baby when she was on holiday. She enjoyed making me feel insecure as a mother. She passed away late August last year at 83.

I gave no signals to DIL that I'm that MIL other than beginning to say 'No' I can't do that, sorry . I was not out socialising or getting my nails done. I was doing what I always do for my daughter driving and making sure she got to those appointments and programs. DIL started to get blunt and rude, she'd sit in another room or not come out of her room, go to kmart,etc  she knew we were coming, because I would never myself just turn up. I'm not a fan of unexpected visitors so I think others could feel the same.

I helped DIL a lot, when first child was grown to year and a half. But the way it was then can't be like that now. I can help, but the way Ive offered is not good enough for her. DIL is a spoilt person from her own parents, her father was an absent partner when DIL was 2 but then he'd turn up again when DIL was 13, the things he offered her was not from good parenting, (alcohol and credit cards).

For me I am having trouble letting go of the smear campaign against my husband and me. She has assumed so many things in the last few months. I gave them a break and gave us a break and it turned into something more hateful against us.

I was not going to enquire after them at all. I needed a full no contact break. She is rude and blunt. I'm extremely sensitive to criticism, a by product I believe from having narcissistic family in my past. I want to drop that rope and just let things be but I also fear the rejection. I am waiting for things to feel better.

I am now doing the assuming thing but I see and notice my son and his wife completely ignore my daughter, like she is not even in their space when we visit. She is a tough one to engage socially, but its not impossible, a hello wouldn't hurt them.

It a really tense space to be in and one we've  been blackmailed into if we want to see the grandchildren. It's on us.

You are doing a really good job of being in control of your situation and family. Its unbelievable the entitlement your inlaws feel is their right. Are they narcissistic?  it seems that way. Have you gone no contact?  I went no contact  with my raging mother and her precious daughter  10/11 years ago,  the pressure that comes off is such a relief and things become even clearer, though I still have some scars that aren't done healing, but it was  better than the alternative.  Hang in there, your family will be all the more better for it. 

[Thru the Rain]

TeaLady (I love your screen name!) - the reason for fewer DIL posts may be simple math.

I think of my own situation. I've been married for 30+ years, and I didn't have children. So while I've had MIL and FIL for 30+ years, I've never had a DIL or SIL. And never will.

And if I had children, I wouldn't have had a DIL until a son reached marrying age. Which would be 20-30 years if ever, depending on his life choices, etc.

You may be looking at this as every DIL has an MIL, so there should be just as many MILs posting here.

But if you look at it the other way around, most of us spend decades as DILs, but a significantly smaller number of us become MILs ourselves, if ever.

I think you should continue to post and seek support here. You may be a light in the darkness for someone else who is too shy or beaten down to post.