Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?

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truthseeker4life

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Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« on: July 12, 2018, 01:40:58 PM »
Just wondering how common this is. I know it is neglect at the very least.

My mom never taught me about my menstrual cycle and basically threw a book at my older sister who gave it to me. I remember reading the instructions for a tampon and just figuring it out myself.

She also never bought me a razor. I had to sneak my dad's and would get in trouble if I forgot to return it. Which was often! (As a mom of 2 daughters if my daughter did this i would think - gee - she has a need for a razor I should get her one.)

She never talked to me about sex. Would just flip the tv channel if some scene come on and mumble about garbage being on tv. And oh she would say "be good" when I left to go out as a teen and older which in her mind was supposed to cover everything i suppose.

I also had to buy most of my own clothes. We moved in 6th grade and I went to a public school for the first time. I babysat and had a paper route. I was responsible for all my spending money and any clothes I wanted to buy beyond a few outfits in the beginning of the school year.

When is this sort of thing generational ignornance (just how things were done back in the day and passed on) and when is neglect and part of pd?

Is it a denial of the fact that their child is growing up and as long as they deny it they can keep them dependent?

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coweringRecluse

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2018, 02:33:38 PM »
This sounds like the PD mindset that you don't exist apart from them, so you don't have needs, wants or emotions.  In their mind you aren't important -- they are.  You are only there to fulfill the desires of the PD.  It is not generational ignorance.  It's merely the fact that the PD is not responsible for you -- you are responsible for providing for them.  That's my experience anyways.

As for teaching you things, my parents didn't give me instructions about anything.  Not about social etiquette, proper behavior, their expectations, my education, nothing.  They thought that was someone else's responsibility and I was expected to already know this stuff.  I only heard about these things from uBPDm afterwards in the form of blistering attacks and those weren't even consistent so I didn't know what to do.  Thus my current sig line.  I survived by hiding from the world, hiding in my room, hiding from everything.

As for age, my uBPDm doesn't have a picture of me around her house of when I was older than 11.  I guess I became too hard for her to control after that.  I'm pushing 60 and my parent's still refer to me as the kid.  This from someone who emotionally is still a 2 year old.
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Starboard_Song

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2018, 02:47:03 PM »
Stemming from the same underlying cause, you can find each of these in the 100 Traits section of the toolbox.

Infantilization - Treating a child as if they are much younger than their actual age.

This may be because of an unspent energy for nurturing, or an inability to relinquish a role of so much importance and meaning. Who knows? I'm not a psychiatrist. But we saw this a lot. Our son continued getting gifts way below his age. And my wife was chastised for making independent decisions at the age of 47.

Parentification - A form of role reversal, in which a child is inappropriately given the role of meeting the emotional or physical needs of the parent or of the family’s other children.

This happens to young children, usually, when the PD person shares inappropriate information or solicits inappropriate advice from a child, unaware of normal standards and boundaries.

Both seem to share the attribute that the world is treated as though it is how they currently need it to be, and not how it is.

In any case, you are not alone.
Healing From Family Rifts, by Mark Sichel
Stop Walking on Egshells, by Paul Mason
Self-Compassion: the Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, by Kristen Neff
Mindful Self-Compassion classes (look them up)
Mindfulness, by Mark Williams
Life on the Mississippi, by Mark Twain

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all4peace

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2018, 03:39:40 PM »
I also think that some parents, PD or not, just can't be bothered to pay attention to the needs of their children for many reasons. I'm sorry that you didn't have parents who were able/willing to understand your needs and meet them.

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Amadahy

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 04:07:49 PM »
I could have written your post! I thanked my wise body for having my very first period at a friend's house, where I could receive support and appropriate guidance.
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Thru the Rain

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 04:11:50 PM »
truthseeker - I too could have written your post word for word. Right down to getting a paper route and baby sitting so I could buy my own clothes and anything needed in the bathroom. Including shampoo, sanitary products. Anything beyond a basic bar of soap and I was on my own.

I've always thought of my uPDM as being stuck at 12 years old. Even before learning anything about PDs. So I think taking care of any items that might be needed by a girl older than 12 was out of her comfort zone. Although she certainly took care of those same needs for herself.

I also have nieces that uPDM suddenly just couldn't relate to and didn't want to spend time with after they got to about age 12.

I'm always amazed that so many of us have had similar experiences and I'm so grateful for this site.

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11JB68

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 05:04:14 PM »
IMHO I feel like some is pd, some generational, and some just personal opinions or lack of comfort level dealing with things...(like sex ed etc). Whatever the cause, the result is the patent putting their own need ahead of their son/daughters needs. My uOCPDh had 'the talk' with ds. I have no idea what he told him. However as Ds got older I had a couple of very frank/honest conversations with ds that I didn't feel h would be able/willing to have with him. Not sure if this was 'weird' as I'm the mom talking to my son....he seemed comfortable so I'm going to assume it was ok.

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Iguanagos

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2018, 06:46:04 PM »
I never even got a book!  When I excitedly told her my first period had arrived, my N/B M just let out a heavy sigh (because I was now going to cost her more money), went and got a pad and a belt (yes, that dates me), and just handed them to me without a word.  When I looked back at her, confused (because I had no idea what to do with them), she just said, "Oh, here!" and grabbed them out of my hand, tore the boxes open, took the ends of the pad and threaded them through the belt, and threw the whole thing back at me.  Thanks, mom.

Like you, I had to figure tampons out myself by reading the instructions in the box.  And same on social etiquette.  I too had no clue about basic things and had to learn those the hard way, making many embarrassing mistakes along the way.

Same too with clothes.  I wore a school uniform, so she bought that, but everything else was pretty much on me. I became very industrious, first babysitting, then working in fast food as soon as I was old enough to apply.  I got my drivers' license on my 16th birthday.  I wanted to grow up, and fast.

Unlike many of you, my mom exhibited a sort of reverse aging relationship.  She had NO interest in me as a child, but somewhere midway through high school, when I was becoming accomplished and interesting in spite of her, she tried to establish a "new" relationship, suddenly being interested in what I was doing.  But it was icky and weird.  By then I had learned to keep a safe distance and to not trust her, so I was not interested.  Plus, I simply didn't really need a mother by then.  I had somehow managed to raise myself.

I moved to the other side of the country and over the last 5-10 years went more and more LC and MC.  In her mid-80s, she is now ramping back up the love bombing, I think due to awareness of her own fragility and mortality.  See, now I can do for her.

Sorry to threadjack.  I think in general, parents with PDs are unable and/or unwilling to put their child first and foremost on anything, at any time.  We are allowed to exist, but our needs can never take more precedence than the needs and wants of the PD.


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daughter

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2018, 07:02:21 PM »
I had same experiences re: puberty, hygiene products, clothes, sex ed, no allowance/early jobs, and financial obligations to maintain to provide teen self with all necessary items, etc.  Seems this is a common trait of our pd moms.  My 1st period was a shock to me, NBM's sum-total of "instruction" was handing me a used belt and pointed-out the Kotex box in the bathroom cabinet.  Mine was an upper-middle class housewife with social pretensions and keen sense of competition with their social set; so I get lots of flak for failing to meet her standards re: clothes, hair-styling, etc.  Go figure.  Apparently she thought I'd pull myself together from thin air.

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all4peace

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2018, 08:44:47 PM »
Mine demonstrated how to use tampons on her own unclothed body, not a memory I treasure. I hope I found middle ground with my own daughter.

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BentNotBroken

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2018, 07:58:03 AM »
Stealing sanitary products which in turn created shame for being a thief, yep my story too, all of it. I'm pretty sure it's a pd thing, not too sure it's a keeping you young thing so much as your needs just didnt matter. I stole my bras and underwear too, borrowed clothes constantly, used other peoples razors. I always blamed it as being a lack of money thing but with adult eyes looking back, it was neglect. Being house broke myself atm hasn't hindered me buying my kids what they need.

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elly87

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2018, 08:53:10 AM »
in my house, my uNPD and enabling mother kept me informed of things if and only if they were relevant to her as well. For example, anything having to do with menstruation, she taught me about in terms of what she did. She only used pads, never tampons, so she explained pads to me but if I wanted tampons, I was totally on my own. She never taught me about shaving or tweezing her eyebrows because she never did those activities so if I wanted to do those, I was on my own. She made fun of me for the way I pronounced 'menstruation' and repeated the story of how I said the word for at least 10 years after, even to my exhusband when we were engaged. She taught me nothing about dating and liking boys because my father was her only boyfriend ever and she didnt approve of dating. you were somehow supposed to go from single to married, anything in between was bad.when I wanted to get my nails done, my mother criticized me for being 'too fancy'. she would call me 'rockefeller' and laugh like a hyena. until my late 20s, I was under the impression that women who went to the hair salon and nail salon were vain and materialistic, and the best women, the superior ones, did everything at home themselves because they understand the value of a dollar.

sorry to hijack the thread but back to the topic at hand. If SHE cared about it, she taught it to me. If not, I was on my own. I started working at 9 years old as a babysitter (back then mothers let 9 year olds babysit lol) and paid for any clothes and toiletries i needed aside from a school uniform (bought from goodwill only) and basic clothing (only from goodwill. if I wanted from the store, I was to buy it myself). this had nothing to do with a lack of money, My father is an executive at a fortune 500 company and was earning well into the 6 figures. Thank god for good girlfriends and other girls' mothers who taught me some of the things my mother wouldnt.

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Summer Sun

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2018, 09:41:23 AM »
Wow.  Ditto.  Could have written it too.  Given a used belt, no instructions.  Had to ask for money to buy supplies.  Used hand-me-down bras from older sister which did not fit.  My first new bra I stole.  Learned about sex from older sibling, won’t discuss how.  Babysat, worked, provided for self.  Not sure of anything other than it was certainly blatant neglect.  And I wonder where the feelings of unworthiness stem from???

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KeepONKeepingON

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2018, 11:35:19 AM »
Hi Truthseeker4life, your experiences sound familiar!

My mother gave me a book about sex when I approached puberty. She gave me leaflets on STDs and that was really it. She never talked to me sex or about the emotional aspects of sex or relationships. Or about self respect and waiting until you are ready to have sex with someone who respects and loves you.

I had very painful periods, they were so bad that I had to take time off school or college. I had very painful cramps and would spend at least the first day of my period vomiting and having hot flushes. One day when I was having my period,  I was writhing on my bed in agony.  My mother casually asked me whether I was having a miscarriage! I was only 14 and not sexually active.  :stars: She said that so casually, if I thought that my daughter was having a miscarriage at 14, I would be very worried about her and her welfare and I would get medical assistance!  I remember her getting a doctor for me once, she did this grudgingly and complained about how much hassle this was for her. She also gave out about the messiness of my room and what the doctor would think!  She never brought me to a gynecologist, even though she had suffered from endometriosis. I guess what I am saying is, I had had a disease like endometriosis I would want to make sure my daughter didn't have it.

She had tampons so I got tampons. I remember having my first period and she told me to go ride my bike as it would help with the cramps. That was it, no explanations or comforting me, just me riding around and around on my bike! I didn't know what was happening to me either as she had never prepared me for periods...

When I asked for deodorant and a trainer bra, she mocked me, but she did buy these things for me. She did eventually get me one bra. She really encouraged me to wear quite revealing clothes. She also encouraged me to wear quite a lot of make up, like Kat Slater (a character from a British soap). Needless to say I had to figure out how to apply make up myself and which clothes suited my shape. I had a Trinny and Susannah book that was my fashion Bible. I think I have taught myself so much from books, I am so glad I was able to do that.  I also remember we walked past some builders together, I was about 12 or 14 and they said hello or made some comments to us. I wasn't comfortable with their attention and must have looked a bit shocked as my mother told me not to look so grumpy and to smile at them!  :blink:

I had to figure out washing/ showering every day myself and changing my underwear every day myself. I remember kneeling down to pet an injured cat and then realizing  the bad smell came from me not the cat! Then I washed or showered every day. I also remember my mother's friend telling me that I had to change my underwear every day, my mother didn't tell me this! My mother gave out if I tried to change my bedclothes weekly as it made more work for her.  I did buy a lot of my clothes myself with money from summer jobs. I remember being proud of a vintage suede coat I bought and my mother telling me that my father and her thought that this knee-length coat along with my new sandals made my legs look fat. She regularly made these kind of comments about any new clothes I bought.

CoweringRecluse - this also sounds familiar.

This sounds like the PD mindset that you don't exist apart from them, so you don't have needs, wants or emotions.  In their mind you aren't important -- they are.  You are only there to fulfill the desires of the PD.  It is not generational ignorance.  It's merely the fact that the PD is not responsible for you -- you are responsible for providing for them.  That's my experience anyways.

As for teaching you things, my parents didn't give me instructions about anything.  Not about social etiquette, proper behavior, their expectations, my education, nothing.  They thought that was someone else's responsibility and I was expected to already know this stuff.  I only heard about these things from uBPDm afterwards in the form of blistering attacks and those weren't even consistent so I didn't know what to do.  Thus my current sig line.  I survived by hiding from the world, hiding in my room, hiding from everything.

As for age, my uBPDm doesn't have a picture of me around her house of when I was older than 11.  I guess I became too hard for her to control after that.  I'm pushing 60 and my parent's still refer to me as the kid.  This from someone who emotionally is still a 2 year old.

 :yeahthat:

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daughterofbpd

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2018, 12:24:00 PM »
Mine demonstrated how to use tampons on her own unclothed body, not a memory I treasure. I hope I found middle ground with my own daughter.
:aaauuugh: How inappropriate and traumatizing. I am so so sorry you experienced that. I now quite prefer that I had the opposite experience.

I was lucky in the BPDm provided me with the basics, although she did seem quite resentful about it. I didn't get any instructions re tampons yet she got angry when I couldn't go swimming because I couldn't figure them out. It was a total annoyance with me having any needs at all. As for birth control, she just told me to keep a quarter between my knees.
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JustKathy

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2018, 01:13:32 PM »
Oh my gosh. I, too, could have written this post. My Nmother did ALL of these things.

I was also not told about my period. The morning I got mine, she opened the bathroom door, threw a maxi-pad at me, and told me to shut up and go to school. I had very painful periods and had a really tough time making it through class. I also had extremely heavy periods and was often humiliated by breakthrough bleeding on my clothes while at school. No matter how bad it got, she made me go to class.

I was also not allowed to shave and snuck my father's razor. It didn't end well for me when I got caught.

When I went into puberty she didn't buy me a bra and made me go to school without one. She also continued to buy clothing styled for a child. If I wanted to wear what the other girls were wearing I had to buy the clothes myself. I took a part-time job when I was 15 so I could pay for my clothes.

This is all very common. They can't bear losing control. I think most children of PD parents will tell you that things got really bad when puberty started. Once you show signs of maturing and begin to gain autonomous thoughts, they will do what they can to stop it.

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Mug

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 01:31:59 PM »
My mom was the opposite. She was way more involved in our lives than she should have been. We weren't allowed to have friends she didn't like. It was not that there was anything wrong with these people or she disapproved of them, SHE just didn't like them. She picked out our clothes until I was around 14 or so. She did my hair and when she finally decided I was old enough to do it myself, she wouldn't help me or teach me how to do it. She picked out what I ate, and when I ate it. She was a complete control freak. I think that's why I have problems making decisions without her approval. I know that if I don't make the *right* choice, I'll hear about for the rest of my life.

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JustKathy

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 02:17:34 PM »
Quote
As for teaching you things, my parents didn't give me instructions about anything.  Not about social etiquette, proper behavior, their expectations, my education, nothing.  They thought that was someone else's responsibility and I was expected to already know this stuff.  I only heard about these things from uBPDm afterwards in the form of blistering attacks and those weren't even consistent so I didn't know what to do.  Thus my current sig line.  I survived by hiding from the world, hiding in my room, hiding from everything.
:yeahthat:

Same here, CoweringRecluse, exactly. I went out into the world with NO social skills. I'm also pushing 60 and still have problems in social settings. I'd much rather hide in the house than go outside. I feel that I'm simply not worthy of being around adults, and at my age, probably always will. My mother tried VERY hard to keep me in a childlike state. In many ways, she succeeded.

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Starboard_Song

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2018, 03:20:48 PM »
I'd much rather hide in the house than go outside. I feel that I'm simply not worthy of being around adults, and at my age, probably always will.

I am so sorry for that.

 :bighug:

But I am glad you shared that experience so bluntly. In my personal experience, the BPD person and her husband have slowly clipped their social circle until they have none. They moved from their home of 35 years with not a soul to say goodbye to. Their daughter, meanwhile, has some social anxiety issues, but is high-performing.

I recently made the gaffe of suggesting this was sort of "how it is." That is not how it is. I have learned how so many disordered people can be social butterflies, and admired, while leaving in their wake destroyed children. This is a new phenomenon in my world, and it is such a shame: such an inequitable distribution of long-term issues.

Again, your brave sharing helps similarly situated people, but also helps those with other experience patterns better understand. You just did something very good and helpful. Go be kind to yourself!
Healing From Family Rifts, by Mark Sichel
Stop Walking on Egshells, by Paul Mason
Self-Compassion: the Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, by Kristen Neff
Mindful Self-Compassion classes (look them up)
Mindfulness, by Mark Williams
Life on the Mississippi, by Mark Twain

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JustKathy

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Re: Do pd moms like to deny their kids are growing up?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 04:43:22 PM »
Quote
You just did something very good and helpful. Go be kind to yourself!

Awwww ... thank you, Starboard.
 :hug: