Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?

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all4peace

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2018, 12:14:00 PM »
From what I understand, successful family therapy is for "normal" families who are struggling, not a family with a PD or otherwise-disordered parent. The very things that make them so very difficult in our lives--lying, no empathy, thought distortions--would make therapy imo extremely upsetting and a huge time, energy and money drain. I'd support my PD family members getting therapy on their own, and would provide input to their therapist if helpful, but I doubt that will happen. I suggested that to one PD parent, but I didn't hear back. I think in this parent's mind, therapy will be a stage, and the therapist her audience of one. Who knows? I'm in no position personally to go there right now.

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Gaining Clarity

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2018, 12:36:28 PM »
GettingOOTF: Thanks for your support and insight. Just to clarify: My DH is supportive from the perspective of recognizing how dysfunctional my FOO is and he has actually been very candid with my FOO about their behavior towards me/us. He has some dysfunction in his own FOO and is working through it. However, as has been the case with many of us before going NC, he is still holding out hope that things can actually be different. That's why he was suggesting I consider FOO family therapy. But at some point, a lightbulb goes off where we say to ourselves, "There is no hope that the situation will improve." or "They really don't see or care how they are affecting the dynamic." Once I explained that to him as well as read some of the wonderful responses from all of you, he got it. Also our adult DS strongly discouraged me from going to family therapy. Once my DH heard that, he agreed with my decision.

Starboard: ITA with you! Therapy doesn't help anyone if all parties are not truly open and committed to working on their own issues as well as being willing to hear out/consider the other parties' positions. In my situation, none of my FOO have ever acknowledged their own shortcomings nor have they ever apologized for anything they've done. Those are things that they want to hold me accountable for rather than themselves.

All4peace: That's what worries me about family therapy--that we'll enter the room and it will turn into a laundry list of all the things wrong with me as they all nod their heads in agreement. What's the point? The work I'm doing for myself has been immensely helpful but won't get me far with them if they're resistant to doing the same for themselves.

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KeepingMyBlue

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2018, 01:39:33 AM »
Clarity, it really was validating! T said she sounded do much like her dad, he was almost triggered. Probably the reason she stopped making appts with me, and I get it, but I would've appreciated a referral first...

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EnglishLady

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2018, 05:44:57 AM »
I would not.  I share the opinion of all those who say to trust your gut on this, but I, personally, would not even consider it.

My mother is an N, as is one of my sisters.  The other sister is barely OK away from the family, but a chameleon when exposed to those whom she perceives to have power. My sense of self is still precarious, 3 years NC, so stepping into that situation would be akin to lighting my hand on fire. I had a minor anxiety reaction just reading this scenario.

I hope you have a lovely birthday, though, and eat much cake!!!  :) :phoot:

Hi Fuzzydog

I couldn't agree more.   The very thought of being in the same room as my Flying Monkey Sisters plus my Narc Mother and Enabler Father absolutely freaks me out.     I am happy being NC and will absolutely stay this way as nothing would change .  If we went to a therapy session it would all be about my Narc Mother and how badly she is treated.  Personally I would rather stick pins in my eyes.   :stars:

But I wish you all well in your choices and hope your therapy sessions are helpful .

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daughter

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2018, 02:35:38 PM »
Proposing family therapy, where a group of pd-disordered grown-ups discuss issues with their designated SG adult-child/sibling?  Nope.  I'd respond that family therapy seems like a wonderful idea for your mother and siblings, you wish them best outcome of that endeavor, but sorry, no, you won't be attending too.  Me, I wouldn't participate in therapy session with your mother and siblings until there's demonstrated consistent consideration and polite interaction already occurring outside of that therapy environment.  And nope, that's not yet occurring, and isn't likely to occur. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 02:38:24 PM by daughter »

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Gaining Clarity

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2018, 06:54:06 PM »
KeepingMyBlue: I'm glad your therapist was validating. Your comment about the therapist almost being triggered was interesting too.

EnglishLady: I can relate. I have no illusions that uNPDm, GCsis and FMsis intentions are coming from a place of sincerity and love.

daughter: You're correct. No demonstration from any of them that they genuinely want to address their own shortcomings/exhibit any introspection or actually consider my point-of-view.

I'm committed to NC but did tell my mother I'd get back her. I texted her. Didn't want to hear any pushback or more reasons why I so desperately need their help  :doh:  I said that I had thought about family therapy and since there was a serious breach of trust between us that it wasn't in my best interests to go. Crickets.

Fine by me. My life is so much happier, calmer and fuller.  Thanks again for everyone's support and terrific insight  :bighug:

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Psuedonym

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2018, 01:30:18 PM »
Hi there,

I went to my uBPD M's therapist with her last year, after she was hospitalized for Xanax toxicity (eye roll). M invited me in. T read her the riot act, told her that her behavior was awful, she was acting like a toddler throwing a tantrum and making everybody else be the adults, told her she was acting like her mother (who my M hated with a vengeance.) I just sat there eating candy and said nothing; it was glorious. However, this is not an endorsement of going to family therapy, it's quite the opposite. My M liked and trusted this T that she had been seeing for years. Did she take any of her advice to heart? Absolutely not. Did she change her behavior? Absolutely not. If you brought up that incident today she would deny that her T said any of what she did. There is no self reflection there, and no desire to change. I guarantee you that your family wants you to go because they're so convinced of their version of reality that they think the T will tell you it's all your fault. Regardless of what is said, it won't change anything. It's kind of you to consider going, but its the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall.

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blacksheep7

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2018, 02:38:36 PM »
Happy belated birthday Gaining Clarity.
You listened to your gut, something very important to us Acons.  We know who we are dealing with.
My NM couldn't accept the fact that her doctor told her to lose weight, denial, denial, denial saying "I've been maintaining it, it's not so bad".  I couldn't imagine therapy.

I am in a more peaceful place now, since nc with FOO.
I may be the black sheep of the family, but some of the white sheep are not as white as they try to appear.

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One

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2018, 04:53:07 PM »
Maybe if they were in their own individual therapy or family therapy for some time and then asked me to participate...that would be one thing.  I doubt that's what your family has in mind.  There was a period of time before I went NC with my mother that she suggested therapy, but it was to work on my issues.  She didn't think she had any.  She didn't come right out and say this at first.  It wasn't until I was fed up with her and then told her that I would only attend therapy with her after she was in therapy for some time and then we would go to therapy together to which she responded, "Why would I go to therapy?  I don't have any problems."  They want to get you in therapy to get another person to join them in ganging up on you and I'm sure you've suffered enough of that your whole life that you don't need to pay someone to subject you to the same shit treatment your family has.



Enjoy the silence.

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Gaining Clarity

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2018, 09:21:55 PM »
Psuedonym: Thank you for sharing your experience. It only reinforces the futility of the situation. Very sad.

Thank you so much, blacksheep7! I'm familiar with much of your backstory from previous posts and am so glad that you've been able to find peace. It's encouraging. I just want them to leave me alone. I think I'll always feel slightly on edge that they'll show up on my doorstep as my uNPDm did recently. Both my DH and I are regretting moving back near FOO, knowing what we know now.

One: You are absolutely correct when you said: "Maybe if they were in their own individual therapy or family therapy for some time and then asked me to participate...that would be one thing.  I doubt that's what your family has in mind."  Your m sounds very much like mine (and everyone else's on this forum), beyond reproach and completely devoid of introspection.

They went through this same exercise when my FMsib was estranged from them some time ago. uNPDm and GCsib would rail against FMsib's perceived transgressions and tell me how FMsib wouldn't go to therapy with them but "their" therapist (same one they want me to see) said FMsib is the problem (without ever meeting FMsib!). uNPDm told my DH on multiple occasions that I'm the problem and that's why I need therapy. Guess she forgot she told that to me when FMsib was the target. Maybe she's just so convicted in her belief that she and others are fine. GCsib also once publicly announced in front of about 40 people that if I went and got help for MY issues that THEY would support me  :doh: :doh: You are so right that they want the therapist to confirm I'm the problem. Even my DH said, "Three against one isn't a fair fight, even if the therapist is impartial." Again I know I'm in good company here, this treatment has been going on more than 50 years. I don't feel anything for them. Just want to live my life.

On a follow up note: uNPDm texted me: just the letter "I" tonight. I don't know if it's her lack of technical expertise or whether she was hoping the cryptic "I" would elicit a dialogue with me. Nope...

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One

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2018, 11:25:12 AM »
They went through this same exercise when my FMsib was estranged from them some time ago. uNPDm and GCsib would rail against FMsib's perceived transgressions and tell me how FMsib wouldn't go to therapy with them but "their" therapist (same one they want me to see)

That's shocking...your unNPDm and GCsib are in therapy?  Regardless, if you were to consider this another thing I would keep in mind is to not see their therapist or even your therapist as the family therapist you all see together.  Pick a new therapist that will be impartial to all of you and then each of you can go back to your individual therapists to discuss the family therapy sessions themselves.  I would be leery of any therapist that's seeing multiple family members and adding another, because that therapist is already in their corner just like your therapist is already in yours.  When my mother suggested this I was in therapy and my therapist told me she wouldn't see us both, not that this was something I was considering anyway.  My mother, not being as smart as some of the other PD moms put all of the leg work in my hands, so of course I was looking for a therapist trained in family therapy, trauma and personality disorders. 
Enjoy the silence.

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all4peace

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2018, 11:28:46 AM »
What I told my uNBPDparent was that since I hadn't seen self reflection or honesty in any of my other conversations with this parent, I didn't see how therapy could work. That's still my view and something that hopefully your DH would understand. Therapy isn't magic. It has to have a few ingredients for it to work. ;)

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Psuedonym

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2018, 12:38:30 PM »
One, you make a really good point I hadn't caught.  I had seen my therapist I think once or twice when I asked if I could bring my BF sometime. She said: nope, I've already seen just you, so it would be unprofessional. On top of everything else, that therapist sounds a bit sketchy now.

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Gaining Clarity

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Re: Would you go to family therapy w/your Narc M and sibs?
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2018, 12:49:32 PM »
One and Psuedonym: unNPDm said that she and GCsib went to family therapy because of FMsib. However, unNPDm greatly exaggerates and blatantly lies on a regular basis. So I have no idea if they have legitimately sought therapy. Based on their behavior over the years, I highly doubt it. By the way, several mutual longtime friends have told me over the years that they consider me to be the only normal one in my family. One of my friends was seeing a therapist regarding marital problems. She told her therapist that she wanted her husband to sit in on sessions. Her therapist said no, that she couldn't because she was already biased regarding my friend's perspective on things. Even if we found a completely impartial therapist, it wouldn't work because my unNPDm is telling flat out lies about me and what has happened. My sibs will back her, w/GC jumping on the bandwagon and FM staying silent so she isn't in the line of fire.

All4peace: Last night, unNPDm sent me multiple, long and rambling diatribes about everything that's wrong with me and what I've "done" to her. Quite frankly, I was stunned as most of what she said was either grossly distorted or flat out never happened. They were filled with rage, resentment and false accusations. Most of what she was accusing me of is what she actually did to me  :stars:

18 months ago, I started writing down every interaction with them-dates, times, names, quotes, details. I realize that recounting details will never be 100% accurate because they're often based on our own perceptions. However, I would write them down as soon as they happened so that they were fresh in mind and as close to accurate as possible.

For just about my whole life, they gaslighted me. Many times, I have questioned my own perceptions. More times than I care to admit, I asked myself, "Am I crazy like they say I am?" or "Did I do these things and simply don't remember or don't want to remember how they happened?" I am certainly not beyond reproach. I have admitted when I wasn't available to help out, when I have raised my voice to defend myself and I have apologized in those instances. None of them have ever acknowledged any wrongdoings or shortcomings, and certainly haven't apologized for anything. She actually said in one of her texts last night that her neighbor came over to see if she was okay the last time I was over there and that her neighbor told her that she was worried about my mother's safety and that I might try to come back to my unNPDm's house to hurt her! I don't believe the neighbor did or said any of this as I kept my cool then. If anything, the neighbor was likely worried about my safety. My mother was screaming in my face, actually locked me in her garage so I couldn't leave while she yelled at me, and then kicked me off of her property. All of I went to help her in dangerous weather conditions. Yeah, I'm evil and dangerous because I want to help my mother  :doh:

I have witnesses as well as voicemails, texts and emails that substantiate the details of many of these interactions. I told unNPDm twice last night that her texts are further proof that there isn't a genuine, open effort to resolve things and to please stop. I showed the texts to my husband. He said, "Wow. She is beyond help." I finally just texted back to her, "Hopeless." and blocked her.

It's my fault. I should have kept my NC and not even answered the door or given her a response to family therapy. Now I know better. There is absolutely no hope of resolution. I cried to my husband that I couldn't imagine saying those things or treating our DS like that.

Thanks for listening and supporting me. I don't know where I'd be without all of the wonderful people here.