What happens when the scapegoat leaves

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One

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2018, 12:11:15 PM »
All I  can add is my personal experience.  All of my FOO is messed up.  Mainly on my dad's side, but also on mom's. So, after being the SG since birth, (and this Thanksgiving thing was when I was in my late 50's...
 Can you say long suffering, hoping for a family that cared?
I went NC after mom told me they were all having a Thanksgiving meal,  but it was ONLY for them... meaning GCsib, their family, and her and dad.
And she said it with glee. In front of dad.
So, i didn't go to my "families" Thanksgiving get together because I was bluntly told to 'not bother showing up'.
Ok.  That Christmas,  I made other plans, figuring if I wasn't welcome at Thanksgiving, it'd be the same for Christmas.  And this didn't just involve me, but also my son, (their grandchild), his wife, and his children.
So I decide to go NC. Why not? Not wanted anyway. My life story. Mom despised me and it showed.

I went through something similar with my father.  I was still in contact with my father and GCBro when I had been NC with my NMother for about 4 years.  I used to think my father was the good parent, but after being NC with my mother it was clearly evident that this was far from the truth.  He was just as bad as my mother and more so in other ways that I won't go into here.  Anyways, it's November and Thanksgiving rolls around and I think to myself while I'm out to lunch with him that I haven't heard anything about Thanksgiving plans.  So I ask him, what's going on with Thanksgiving, do we know what we are doing?  He says to me in this mocking and ignorant tone, "WE are going up to GCBro's house for Thanksgiving."  "We" as in him, his gf, her daughter, his sister, GCBro and my enSIL.  I just sat there shocked and hurt.  I didn't know how to react as I realized these 6 people, 3 of which are blood relatives of mine, sat and made plans behind my back and not ONE OF THEM thought to step up and suggest including me in it.  I almost burst into tears at the restaurant and you know what I did that Thanksgiving?  Nothing.  You would not believe the look he shot me when he said it to me too.  He had this "F*ck you" look on his face.  I just remember thinking, "What is this about?"  It was then that I realized he hates me JUST LIKE MY MOTHER DOES.  It's true.  There is no place for me in this family.  There never has been and there never will be.  I stuck around in his life for a couple more months before I abruptly changed my phone number one day while I was still in contact with him.  He found out by trying to contact me and finding out the text wouldn't go through, so he emails me at work and I tell him, "Yes, that's right.  I changed my phone number.  It's not like you need it.  I am on the bottom of the list of priorities in this family.  Your own daughter."  Then I sent him an email telling him what a worthless piece of shit I thought he was and I've never heard from him since.  My previous therapist used to tell me how as a parent it upsets her that my father has never tried to contact me, unlike the incessant pestering I receive from my mother regardless of how I try to block her out of my life, but I told her that he should never dare try to contact me. 

Sorry...a little off topic there!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 12:46:57 PM by One »
Enjoy the silence.

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M0009803

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2018, 11:48:09 AM »
I'm in this situation right now.

I was the scapegoat for many years.  When I decided to get married, the abuse ramped up to greater heights, which is why I decided to go NC.

Since then, there have been many attempted hoovers.  Lots of flying monkeys, and attempted gift giving.

What helps me is that I wrote everything down to remind myself of just how terrible their behavior made me feel when it happened.  I found this to be helpful because the cycle of abuse, which in my family was: big bad behavior --> Silent Period --> gift bombing me --> Repeat;  had to be stopped so that I could grow beyond the confines of the emotional trap my family had put me in as the scapegoat. After a year or so NC, I can see the difference already. It honestly feels like an emotional clamp has been removed from your head.    It really is amazing how much energy they suck from you.

But to your original question, it would seem that if they can't target the scapegoat, they will target exterior (to the direct family at least) parties rather than each other. At least in the short-term.    Hard to say how things will re-align in the longer-term.  This will depend on how good their lives are. If things are going reasonably well for them, they will tend to not ramp up the abuse.  But if things don't go well, they will start lashing out at whomever is the easiest target (and that could be each other).

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rosalieaprile

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2018, 07:35:26 PM »
I've been NC for two years. Narcmom tried to contact me a few times the first month. Then that was it. Crickets. I had a relationship with sdad up until about a year ago. But then we had a conversation where he implied my mother's crazy was my fault. I dropped the rope and haven't talked to anyone (2 sisters and parents) since. In my mind I'm sure she needs someone to unleash all of the venom so I imagine it's destabilizing.

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RoseWater

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2018, 08:25:52 PM »
" They haven't missed a beat. From what little I hear, they are still the same ruthless pack of dogs they were years ago and functioning just fine."
 :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :yeahthat:

Adria,

This made me laugh, in a good way. This just feels very validating,,,,,Like, yup, any lingering FOG I had evaporated, I was right about you people. Onwards and upwards.




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DaisyGirl77

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2018, 08:55:26 PM »
All I  can add is my personal experience.  All of my FOO is messed up.  Mainly on my dad's side, but also on mom's. So, after being the SG since birth, (and this Thanksgiving thing was when I was in my late 50's...
 Can you say long suffering, hoping for a family that cared?
I went NC after mom told me they were all having a Thanksgiving meal,  but it was ONLY for them... meaning GCsib, their family, and her and dad.
And she said it with glee. In front of dad.
So, i didn't go to my "families" Thanksgiving get together because I was bluntly told to 'not bother showing up'.
Ok.  That Christmas,  I made other plans, figuring if I wasn't welcome at Thanksgiving, it'd be the same for Christmas.  And this didn't just involve me, but also my son, (their grandchild), his wife, and his children.
So I decide to go NC. Why not? Not wanted anyway. My life story. Mom despised me and it showed.

I went through something similar with my father.  I was still in contact with my father and GCBro when I had been NC with my NMother for about 4 years.  I used to think my father was the good parent, but after being NC with my mother it was clearly evident that this was far from the truth.  He was just as bad as my mother and more so in other ways that I won't go into here.  Anyways, it's November and Thanksgiving rolls around and I think to myself while I'm out to lunch with him that I haven't heard anything about Thanksgiving plans.  So I ask him, what's going on with Thanksgiving, do we know what we are doing?  He says to me in this mocking and ignorant tone, "WE are going up to GCBro's house for Thanksgiving."  "We" as in him, his gf, her daughter, his sister, GCBro and my enSIL.  I just sat there shocked and hurt.  I didn't know how to react as I realized these 6 people, 3 of which are blood relatives of mine, sat and made plans behind my back and not ONE OF THEM thought to step up and suggest including me in it.  I almost burst into tears at the restaurant and you know what I did that Thanksgiving?  Nothing.  You would not believe the look he shot me when he said it to me too.  He had this "F*ck you" look on his face.  I just remember thinking, "What is this about?"  It was then that I realized he hates me JUST LIKE MY MOTHER DOES.  It's true.  There is no place for me in this family.  There never has been and there never will be.  I stuck around in his life for a couple more months before I abruptly changed my phone number one day while I was still in contact with him.  He found out by trying to contact me and finding out the text wouldn't go through, so he emails me at work and I tell him, "Yes, that's right.  I changed my phone number.  It's not like you need it.  I am on the bottom of the list of priorities in this family.  Your own daughter."  Then I sent him an email telling him what a worthless piece of shit I thought he was and I've never heard from him since.  My previous therapist used to tell me how as a parent it upsets her that my father has never tried to contact me, unlike the incessant pestering I receive from my mother regardless of how I try to block her out of my life, but I told her that he should never dare try to contact me. 

Sorry...a little off topic there!

I have a similar story as well.  Dad's brother (I refuse to call him uncle) planned a Thanksgiving dinner/party & invited everyone else but me.  He said he was taking his mother out for a mom/son day that day.  I spent that whole day alone, making & eating my first turkey, stuffing, & mashed potatoes, & watching Hallmark Christmas movies back to back.

9 PM rolls around.  Dad shows up with his mom in tow.  So of course I'm like, WTF?  That's when the whole thing comes out.  Meanwhile, his mom is off to the side looking quite smug.

The kicker?  I spent an entire MONTH leading up to Thanksgiving asking for family to come spend the day with us (Dad's mom & me).  It was a huge sucker punch, & I'm still angry about it.

Oh:  Their reasoning for excluding me & ONLY me?  Dad says they wanted to "give me a break from Grandma."  I told him I didn't care; I'm his daughter & he should've told me.

After calling his brother & ripping him a new one, I spent the night crying in my bed.
I lived with my dad's uPD mom for 3.5 years.  This is my story:  http://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=59780.0  (TW for abuse descriptions.)

"You are not required to set yourself on fire to keep others warm." - Anonymous

NC with uNM since December 2016.  VLC with uPDF.

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UsedUp

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2018, 02:30:33 AM »
Daisy and One, I'm so sorry that y'all had to deal with that also. It hurt me to my core, but it also was like a slap in the face that helped me to wake up.

I didn't immediately go NC, but it wasn't long. At Christmas,  after that, I didn't even attempt to be around them. Went to see them to take their gifts right before Christmas . Before I could say a word, or even get sat down, mom was interrupting everyone, blurting out, 'GC saw on Facebook, that you're going out of town for Christmas '. Over and over. I went there to take them their gifts, and to tell them I wouldn't be there at Christmas because I had other plans.

Mom acted like a 6 year old child when I gave her gift to her. Couldn't rip it open fast enough. 

Even after this, I still went one more time.  For a gathering for my 'wonderful, great, better than anyone else, dad's birthday.  Partly to see a couple of nephews and wifes that I liked.

After that it was full blown NC with all of them. There wasn't a choice in that 'family', it was all or nothing.

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One

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2018, 02:32:30 PM »
Daisy and One, I'm so sorry that y'all had to deal with that also. It hurt me to my core, but it also was like a slap in the face that helped me to wake up.


I agree..but .more like a sledgehammer to the face!

I could not imagine celebrating a holiday and excluding my own child, but including everyone else.  I just feel as the SG the family is only talking to you out of obligation.  As you get older they will opt out of that obligation more and more, because they aren't invested in you.  Once they realize they can exclude you, they will and they won't apologize for it, because they haven't wanted you there all along.   This behavior will be more bold depending on how many enablers are around.  I know that sounds really negative, but that was my experience in my family and it was devastating.  They will be fine without you.  If they want another SG they will manufacture one.  You will be fine too.
Enjoy the silence.

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makarios_tonikos

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2018, 10:20:24 PM »
I realize I'm a bit late to this discussion, but in my experience, it depends on the specific family member.

The first relative I went NC with in my PD-ridden family was my uNPD aunt, who tried "anti-apology" hoovering that fell silent as soon as I reiterated I wanted nothing more to do with her. (The magic words were, "anymore e-mails you send will automatically route to my TRASH folder.) My guess is that she either saw the futility of additional contact, or she had enough assurance from the enablers in my family that I'm just an "angry, unforgiving person".

Borderlines and histrionics are a different beast as they tend to suffer from bizarre abandonment issues in addition to narcissism. As such, the effects of NC are a double-edge sword: first, the ego-damage to their "done nothing wrong" character, and second, the extreme feelings of isolation for reasons that seem unknown/unfathomable. There's a phenomenon known as "wound collecting" which describes individuals who internalize various wrongs and eventually see the whole world as slighting or conspiring against them; I'd surmise that these feelings could be similar to BPDers and HPDers who have been repeatedly NC'd. (My PDM, FWIW, has become a raging conspiracy theorist.)

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WomanInterrupted

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2018, 04:30:49 AM »
This Scapegoat  escaped when unBPD Didi and unNPD Ray were old, and expected me, as the only child, to be their full-time CAREGIVER, slave and perfect subhuman.  They'd alienated everyone in their lives, had *one* unNPD hoarder friend who used to take in elderly relatives, but knew she wasn't going to cash in this time, so was MIA - and the whole thing imploded, spectacularly.

The LAST thing Didi and Ray wanted - the medical system they relied on - was now working *against them* - and they'd have to rely on STRANGERS, because I'll be dipped if I was getting involved.   :roll:

Didi kept having herself hospitalized, in the hope I'd realize I'd need to bring her here, install a hospital bed in the living room and treat her like an infant.   :aaauuugh:

Instead she got Medium Chill, "Gosh...what did your doctor say about that?  You haven't talked to him?   Well, you need to.  I can't help you.  Why?  I'm NOT A DOCTOR."  "Call an AMBULANCE." and, "Wow...I don't know what to tell you.  I don't know what to say.  You need to call your doctor..."

And nothing but me not getting involved.  I wouldn't even visit - and they lived 3 miles away.  I was always "busy."   :ninja:

After months and months and months of, "It's caaaaancer!"  "They don't know what's wrong with me!"  "It's caaaaaaaancer!"  "They STILL don't know what's wrong with me!" - and Didi *refusing* to let them do any tests beyond blood work, with a DNR in place - she told me she had a whole room of people working on her, to get her back after she died.

Rope, she is dropped.

A doctor finally insisted on an X-Ray  of her chest  - which she *could not do*  :dramaqueen:  - but did once the doctor told her to never come back to that hospital if she refused (I don't know if that's legal, or it's even the truth), but Didi got her X-ray and yup - lung cancer.  Advanced.  You have a DNR.  Go home or phone Hospice - or revoke the DNR.

She chose to keep going back to the ER, every single night, with her oxygen unit and unNPD Ray in tow, crying that she didn't want to die tonight, she had nobody to talk to, didn't need end of life counseling, but somebody had to DO something.   :dramaqueen: :violin: :bawl:

They'd give her a Xanax and have a nurse sit with her until she was calm enough to go home - only to reappear the next night.   :roll:

I only know all of this because Ray needed her hospital records for an insurance thing.  I read them and knew I made the right decision in staying out of it.   8-)

*Finally* they told her not to come back, she had a DNR, there was nothing they could do for her - but she came back anyway (you're not going to tell Didi what to do, goddammit!) - and they gave her a choice:  Hospice at home, or a Hospice facility.

Oooh!  A facility full of people who didn't know her!  She'd decide later, after she went home and thought about it...

No, they said - NOW.  Make a decision NOW.

Ray was in his 80's and WELL past being able to take care of her, so she went to the facility by ambulance (to make sure she GOT there and didn't put it off, then turn up at the ER again), and the last thing my "loving mother" said to me  was to roar across a room, loud enough for me to hear in the cell phone Ray was holding was, "Tell her I'm BUSY!"   :roll:

She died the next day, in the company of strangers.  No great loss there. 

Ray lived in Didi's hoard and didn't want it, so I got rid of it, and endured a lot of past trauma opening itself up - including sexual abuse by Ray, when I was in my early 30's.  I did NOT want to do it, but he was willing to let the stuff go (that afore-mentioned hoarder friend wasn't, and wound up with me banning her from the house   :ninja: ), it was beyond unsafe, and I wondered if it was even possible to have a relationship with enabling, unNPD Ray.

Turns out - no.

I got the dehoarding done and went VVVVVVVVVVVLC, after suggesting he get Life Alert.

He told me that was for OLD people and he wasn't old.

Ooooookay then...

Instead of Life Alert, he'd call ME for "medical emergencies" - I had caller ID and would leave the room when his number came up, then delete the message from the machine.

THEN he got Life Alert  - it was his OWN great idea, dontcha know?    :roll: - and refused to use it.  He used to show it off, like a magic talisman.   :aaauuugh:

Ray fell a lot - and wouldn't use a cane.  And learned FAR too much from Didi on how to milk human kindness until the teat was empty - so you just keep hitting it until it gives more, and when it gives nothing, you act even crazier.

Had a heart attack - he didn't have a heart attack!  He left his chest freezer open for a month - he DIDN'T leave it open! It's those same THEM that want all his stuff, which is why he had clothespins on all the drapes.

In his final act of desperation, he fell in the bathroom the same day his Visiting Nurse was due to show up, she called me after he didn't answer the door, I told her to call the cops, APS got involved, and Ray was pulled out with a grade 4 pressure ulcer on his hip, screaming that he was FINE and didn't need to go to the hospital.

That Life Alert button was  within reach - and he didn't hit his head.  The paramedics were all wondering why the hell he didn't  use it.

Well, that wouldn't be any fun, would it?  He'd lose every chance of having a caregiver who'd let him fly his freak flag and have no boundaries.   :barfy:

I stayed here.  He WAS taken to the hospital, declared incompetent, put in a memory care unit - and I'm NC.   :ninja:

I wound down his affairs, and that's that -  I'll be notified if Ray acts up/out, needs stronger meds to control his *psychosis* - or dies.

Then he gets chucked into his marble mausoleum with Didi, with no funeral.  I dismantled his elaborate Catholic thing, because he's on Medicaid - and that money now goes back to the state.

I care  more about taxpayers I don't even know than Ray!   :)

But...this is what happens if you drop the rope and they can't find another Dutiful Scapegoat.  The Medical System takes over, and it works.   :thumbup:

People notice things.  We don't live in a vacuum - and there are protocols for people who have nobody - and could have had  somebody rather extraordinary (I will walk through the fires of hell for our pets!) - but chose to label me Scapegoat, and try to heap their shame, wrongs and garbage onto my shoulders, while insisting I fix the unfixable and be PERFECT while doing it, or *somebody will know!* - and it doesn't count, and I have to start from the bottom, all over again.   :roll:

I walked away.  I have a nest egg, thanks to a wonderful eldercare attorney, social workers at the nursing home who TOTALLY get it, and a Medicaid social worker who is only just starting to understand, "When I say I'll send the paperwork back, I mean it - and I'll even leave you a voicemail after it's in the mail."

She's used to being blown off.

I"m very nice to her (but very firm in my boundaries about meeting, or having anything to do with Ray) and do as I say - but *will not meet* her for coffee, as she seems a little too, you know - something.

She's not going to force a "family reconciliation" - or whatever thing she's got in her head.  I can't presume -  but I *won't* go to the nursing home or meet with her in person.   :ninja:

And one of these days, I just might convince myself I'm going to be okay, after a lifetime of abuse that has now STOPPED.

I never will - I'll always be a work in progress - and I'm okay with that.    :)

Don't have much of a choice, do I?   :bigwink:

 :hug:

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UsedUp

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2018, 03:10:35 AM »
We're all works in progress,  WI. And, no. You didn't really have any other choice.  None.

It seems like they adopted an innocent child, not to give them a loving, nurturing home, but to provide a caregiver for them in the future. That's just plain sick.

Nope. In my opinion,  you had no choice. And I hope you flourish.

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SnugglyHedgehog

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2018, 06:42:31 AM »
This is a really interesting question!

For us. My brother was the SG and he went no contact apart from the odd weak moment in anger around 6 years ago.
We found that when he was no longer there that the abuse was then projected onto both myself and my other brother because the SG was no longer there.

It just got worse and worse to be honest.

I confronted her in May this year and had to go NC because of her reaction and the impact on me and my mental health.

The situation still hasnít imploded. The whole family have rallied around her and view us as problem children who are hurting their mum and that she has gone through so much in life. Thereís no regard for our feelings. Thereís no wondering why 2/3 of her children now donít talk to her, complete ignorance.

She is 100% the victim. Iíve given up trying to explain and told them I wonít discuss it with anyone again. Theyíve been laying into me and urging me to fix it for months.

I do worry about my brother who is left. He will now not talk to me because of what she has said to him. She is awful to him and now the abuse towards 3 is now focussed on 1.

Both myself and my brother were flying monkeys to the SG when he went no contact. I am now repairing that relationship. At the moment the brother left isnít being a FM to me. Heís just completely ignoring all attempted contact.

I know itís not exactly the same as what youíve described. Hope itís helpful though.

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AmericanWoman

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2018, 07:14:45 PM »
My only sibling, her first SG died early.  Her second, me, went far away and NC.  I do have a relationship with a couple of family members that she has run off with her venom and do know she is going after her granddaughter and great granddaughter and slamming them.  Itís amazing how much evil can spew from one small old woman.

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JustKathy

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2018, 03:33:35 PM »
I was the scapegoat and went NC about eight years before my Nmother died. I have no idea what went on in their house after that, but I do know she did whatever she could to keep scapegoating me. I was stalked, sent letters and other things in an attempt to hoover me back in. I know I was also the victim of a smear campaign. My sister and I were never close but did email each other and exchange birthday gifts. After I went NC my sister completely turned on me, becoming Nmother's protector. I was finally disinherited is a very cruel manner. I imagine there was a lot of raging going on in that house, but I'll never know. I guess the short story is once the SG, always the SG. I moved away and they found me and keep scapegoating me.

I think she was able to continue playing the victim the entire time because I never responded to any of her hoovering attempts, so she was able to keep telling people what a monster I was because she sent me a gift and never heard back from me. When she got cancer she made sure everyone knew I wasn't coming to visit.

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SaltwareS

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Re: What happens when the scapegoat leaves
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2018, 05:14:20 PM »
We had a rotating SG. I don't even like to call people "the" SG. I think it's more accurate to say various people were "being scapegoated" at various times.

For a while in recovery I was reading the family system roles, and trying to accept that I was "the" *designated* SG and it messed me up emotionally, I was worse than before. Then I slowly realized that's not how it all was and I was able to function again.

However one sibling when I was growing up went NC for a time then reconnected. Later in life I went NC for a few years then reconnected.

I have one npdParent and one enParent. The extended family connected with me after I'd left and at first "we all have to be there for our parents" or "can you write a letter to your [npdParent] reassuring that you forgive" !!! Which was so hurtful - did anyone want to ask why I left, how they'd hurt me?? But after a while the extended family got it that I was not just going to come back right away.

And in a few years after that I heard that enParent was torn up at times I was gone.

Eventually I reconnected.

Every family is different. I think you would be missed but they would never admit that. They don't acknowledge vulnerability or mistakes or flaws.