Husband wants to visit his uPD parents

[Call Me Cordelia]

Sigh. I knew this would probably happen sooner or later. But you know, his enabling/avoidant/uN dad is getting older, showing signs of early dementia or something. DH had regrets about not seeing his uPD grandfather before his death (partly because he was in a nursing home in early COVID) and doesn't want to be in that position with his dad. He still harbors positive memories toward him, though I do readily concede that my DH has much more emotional maturity than even a few years ago.

I'm not super worried about this visit in itself. We are agreed that only he would  go, for a very limited time. Having own accommodations and transportation. It does feel like an act of charity on my part to hold the fort and spend from our budget so he can do this for his and his father's benefit. I fear the possibility of rug-sweeping expectation for further steps toward a larger reconciliation. Not so much from him, but I dread having to hold my boundaries after having such blessed peace of NC for several years now. I fear a Pandora's box sort of situation, letting all the flying monkeys out. I just would rather not deal with any of it. I would love to be able to say this is just one visit, and we can make this decision in a vacuum and nothing else needs to change.

It would be a change. DH has been down to 1-2 superficial phone calls with them a year, and now he wants to fly across the country for them. It all just sucks.

[notrightinthehead]

Oh well. Seems like the universe wants to throw a learning opportunity your way. Looking forward to your posts on how you handle it and grow in the process.
Sending you a big hug! We are here for you.

[Srcyu]

Hello,

It does suck, very much so. I would share your thoughts on this too if were to happen to me. He's flying straight into the dragon's den, deliberately.

You were both in a very comfortable position regarding contact and now . .
You're only too aware of what could go wrong here. It probably won't be, 'just one visit.'

As you say, your husband has gained a lot of emotional intelligence during the vlc stage. I hope it helps him to navigate this extremely tricky situation.

[NarcKiddo]

I would react in a similar way to you. But then, I tend to catastrophise and any changes tend to fill me with dread and foreboding. That attitude has never served me well, however, and I spend a lot of emotional energy working through scenarios "just in case".

You strike me as a strong and emotionally aware person (even if you do not always feel that way). I know how hard it is when boundaries are tested but maybe it would be good to see if you can trust yourself to deal with whatever happens as it happens. Or at least plan one step ahead rather than ten. I am glad your DH has more emotional maturity, so maybe that will serve you both well. And although I would not wish a ghastly visit on anyone, it is conceivable that his visit on his own will be  unpleasant enough that he does not want a repeat any time soon.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm anticipating lovebombing, but I guess time will tell. I don't plan to ask for a whole lot of details after the fact. I still feel threatened when my DH has any kind of positive association with his FOO. Them more or less discarding him suited me just fine.

And thanks, everyone. I certainly don't feel emotionally strong. I hate how reactive my emotions still are. I needed to go for the Unisom last night because I was plunged right into flashbacks of the time I went NC and all the crappy stuff that went on with my IL's. None of which affects my DH nearly as much. Just making me feel like I'm the crazy one. Maybe I will grow through this but I'd just rather stay safe and comfortable, you know?

[bloomie]

Call Me Cordelia - as our in laws age and decline we live with what I call 'the threat of the familiar' that is a sneaky risk to our hard won distance and boundaries.

One of the vulnerabilities and possibly reasons we do have to go vlc or nc with in laws is (at least in my own case) my DH is STILL somewhat naive about the potential and actual harm his FOO poses to us and can easily settle in to an environment and interactions that are familiar and nostalgic in many ways. For the most part, if it is also toxic, well... he swam around in that water for a long time and is somewhat acclimated to it, even though he has grown more aware.

It is so often us that marry into that family who recognize the toxic water everyone is swimming around in and we want none of it. 

My own DH from young adulthood (long before he even met me)  pulled away and was distant, but it was tacit and he didn't even acknowledge it to himself until much later in life. He didn't want to spend time with his FOO. He withheld personal info, he evaded intrusion into his life by playing pranks and acting silly and he showed up when he was 'supposed' to and played his part and all was well... And they had their 'boy back'!


And honestly, when I watch and listen to it all I am shocked at how immature and odd it all is between them.

So, when health declines necessitate more involvement for my DH I have this nagging sense that I am going to see him diminish and reduce himself to that caricature person again. It is the potential damage to my esteem and view of my DH and his esteem and view of himself that I wrestled with more than anything else.

The boundary stuff... we've got that by now, but the difficulty of those of us who have been raised in murky waters to stay with ourselves and hold onto who we truly are when back in a toxic environment for a period of time is painful to navigate or see our DH's navigate.

He may navigate it well or well in some ways and not in others. Hold loving space for yourself and him as you go forward is my best thoughts. This is the deep, hard, reality of living with unhealthy elders as part of our life package. We are here! Let us know how you are!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Sigh. DH's perspective is he has never been at peace with the way his relationship is with his parents. He never wanted NC/VVVLC. So he's going to be proactive and "man up" and try to reconcile things in some fashion. He prayed about it and this is what seems like the right thing. This hurts because through all the boundary busting my main argument with HIM has been his passivity. So you man up for your hope for your parents. Great just what I always hoped for. His parents have been expressing this hope too. And he's prayed about it so God is on his side too.

Ugh. I did ask that maybe just try talking on the phone more often first before you commit to traveling thousands of miles. I'm still hurt that even after all they have done to me and all the time that's passed and all the turns of the hoovering/boundary busting attempts that I have shut down/periods of silent treatment he hasn't been inclined to lose that hope. That he wants THEM after all.

I talked to a friend who mostly gets it but she is firmly on his side that this is a good thing. (Point: she reconciled with her own parents after a time of NC.) And maybe I'm not ready for reconciliation myself okay but lean into the pain and God will heal me in that place. Ouch ouch ouch. I hate that there is this expectation on me to have charity and be forgiving to those who have abused me and be supportive of my DH's wish for a relationship here. Every couple of years there's some kind of hoover/longing/attempt that comes around again. I just want to be done with this. I would be relieved if they just died. But that makes me bad, too.

[notrightinthehead]

Dear Cordelia, could it be that you are working against yourself now? Could you just let your husband make his own mistakes? Practice a bit of stoicism? Btw an excellent philosophy to study when you want to move your mind into a calm, strong space. Accept the things you cannot change dear Cordelia. Work on your own boundaries. Observe what this stress does to you. How you become upset and maybe a little bit angry, so that the friend you turned to seems to side with your husband. You believe in god. This might be a moment where you could let go and let god take over, all the while working on your serenity. You are a mother. You can role model being kind, serene, generous, and very very good to yourself. Paint something, grab a book on stoicism, go out and find new friends you can have fun with, but please don't waste your energy on a fight you have already lost. These are his parents. They know how to pull strings that you never knew about. It's his battle. Not yours. You can only stand by and limit the damage to yourself and your kids.

[Call Me Cordelia]

No. Certain critical details had been misrepresented to me. FIL has actually been giving DH the silent treatment for over a year. This is an old pattern of FOG. Darned if I'm just going to roll over and take it while DH runs back toward his (my) abusers while I hold his home life together for him. They are his parents, but I am his wife. They've proven over and over they have no real love for us. DH gets a firm, "Snap out of it!" from me.

If he chooses to pursue that delusional relationship anyway, so be it, but he will have a mess with me to clean up. Darn right I'm angry.

[mustard_seed]

Cordelia- I'm so sorry you're going through this. I can relate to so much of how you're feeling.

I also feel threatened when my husband expresses positivity about his parents, who've been abusive to me. It's hard for my emotional brain to accept that he can be warm with people who have chosen to hurt me. 

Even though your husband is more emotionally mature than he used to be, could he still be dealing with the trauma bond? That's what I wonder with my own husband when he seems to willingly slip into abuse amnesia, putting on those rose colored glasses.

In my husband's case, maybe something his mother said--a tone of voice or a phrase that I can't even detect--has triggered trauma wounds and now he's back there, a little child trying to get his needs met. In your case, maybe the health changes in your husband's father? Just my best armchair analysis.

Not that it really makes it any easier on you. Like you said, you're having flashbacks, having trouble sleeping, dealing with anger and the emotional whirlwind of this. *big sigh*

I hope your husband's clarity re-emerges as he navigates this--it sounds like he's hell-bent on this visit and possibly a larger reconciliation. I think that's where I'd agree stoicism might be helpful, because if your husband is going to do this no matter what you say or do in protest, then the best way to limit the damage to yourself is to turn your energy away from that situation and onto what you can control. (Not saying that's easy to do)

You're one of the first people to tell me this advice, so I know you know this, but just in case you need a reminder: you don't have to have a relationship with his parents. No one can make you reconcile with your abusers. You are the authority in your own life and you can and will hold your boundaries as needed to keep yourself safe.

As far as the fallout between you and your husband--like you said, he'll have a mess to clean up--of course you have every right to express your emotions and thoughts to him and I hope you guys are able to have those conversations in a way that heals and strengthens, rather than harms your bond. If venting anger on here helps, then know that we are all ears... and most of us have very much been there before.

 

[bloomie]

No. Certain critical details had been misrepresented to me. FIL has actually been giving DH the silent treatment for over a year. This is an old pattern of FOG. Darned if I'm just going to roll over and take it while DH runs back toward his (my) abusers while I hold his home life together for him. They are his parents, but I am his wife. They've proven over and over they have no real love for us. DH gets a firm, "Snap out of it!" from me.

If he chooses to pursue that delusional relationship anyway, so be it, but he will have a mess with me to clean up. Darn right I'm angry.

The marital relationship and FOC take priority. The. End. 

One of the most important aspects of intimate, committed, devoted relationship aka marriage, imv is the wisdom and insights we bring to each other within the knowing, the experiencing of every day life with our partners.

It is folly - to use on old turn of phrase that is so helpful in situations like this - for a husband or wife to ignore the warning and wisdom of their partner. You have all systems shouting 'high alert' as you get a clear picture of what is going on. And you are sounding the alarm and refusing to cooperate with your DH's plan to try and woo back a father who has cruelly discarded him and a host of other damaging behaviors toward both of you.

What you and I, and all of us here, have had to learn is we don't go toward those who are mistreating us. We don't keep knocking on doors that are firmly slammed in our face. We do not use precious time and resources in an attempt to cajole an emotionally manipulative immature person (a parent, no less) into talking with us.

In all of the complex mess of disordered family systems, sometimes the only thing standing between us compromising ourselves and making a big mess even messier is our spouse/partner. When our loved one simply cannot see clearly the risk of reentering the shark tank we sound the alarm.

And we sound the alarm so that... they can clearly consider the cost before they reengage because the cost is to you, too. And when DH makes a decision on this he will do it eyes wide open that to ignore the wisdom and insights of a spouse who loves him and is for him is folly and will bring harm to his foundational, primary relationships. You and your family together. And he does so at his own risk.

[Pepin]

I'm anticipating lovebombing, but I guess time will tell. I don't plan to ask for a whole lot of details after the fact. I still feel threatened when my DH has any kind of positive association with his FOO.

This is something that (looking back) my DH went through as well.  As soon as DH moved us back near his childhood home, the lovebombing began.  The in-laws were on their very best behavior because their favorite son and child was within grasp!  They wanted to spend all their free time with us (ahem, DH) to make up for not having seen him after DH had moved away for many years.  And the food nonstop at every visit (their home or ours) was insane.  While it seemed caring, it was absolutely their way of getting DH to comply.  And because he couldn't resist all the food....they snagged him.  He was rewarded with food AND money for fulfilling their to do list.  And because DH grew up really poor, he cannot resist money being dangled in front of him.  Too much more to talk about...bottom line, food and money are positive lures for him and it worked.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Thank you Mustard Seed, Bloomie, and Pepin. I know at least my MIL can turn on the charm when she wants to, and DH has a pattern of seeing what he wants to see whereas I see manipulation. Then I'm the object of his anger because I'm always determined to see the worst. For me, the trust is gone and the ship has sailed. I know there is communication with MIL at least, how much I don't know, but historically, MIL has only to snap her fingers or send a text and the tiny violin starts working on DH.  Although he has improved, and I want to give credit where credit is due, my opinion is still definitely trauma bond. Especially since the way he at first represented this newest wave was that it was a mutual desire, and in fact FIL has still maintained that silence. I don't like how reactive I am, true. It sucks. But I don't necessarily think that it means I'm wrong lol. I've really had to fight to maintain the distance I've had and when that threat comes up again it seems like just the most efficient to just hit back hard? It just gets it over with faster. Until the next time. 

DH is meeting with our counselor today on his own. I have no idea what the outcome there will be. In the past we've gone specifically to work on our marriage and rekindling relationship with the ILs was not up for discussion.

[Rebel13]

About nine months ago I visited my family after nine years of VLC.  And the experience was eye-opening, to say the least.  My mother behaved terribly and I was completely blindsided and shocked -- BECAUSE I had learned healthy behaviors and boundaries and surrounded myself with similarly inclined people, in the time that I had been VLC with her.  Her behavior on that visit convinced me to go NC since then.  Maybe your husband will have a similar experience, having become unaccustomed to nonsense and bad behavior in his time away from them.

And I hope you are able to take care of yourself in whatever way makes sense to you while you are struggling with this.  I definitely feel for you.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hey, a bit of an update: I got to check in with both our marriage counselor and my husband again after the initial emotional flashback sucker punch. I received both validation and encouragement from the counselor that I can trust my insights and grow in confidence in having based my NC decisions firmly in reality. It is very true that this is a lonely place to be, and there is still the niggling doubt that pops up because I cut off two complete family systems, so it would appear that I am the common denominator here. It's so easy for my DH to appear to be the reasonable one and me the identified patient (my words, not the counselor's) because I'm the one reacting emotionally.

We also were encouraged to talk about my husband's feelings some more together, in the interest of moving past this pattern of his woundedness pulling at my woundedness in this way every so often and I blow up to just shut it all back down.

Summing up, I'm even more comfortable believing he's got one heck of a trauma bond going on there. Not sure what's next. I'm feeling a bit worn out, but less fearful of just getting worn down. I really just want a good night's sleep.