Out of the FOG

Hi everyone

All NPD parents are at various places along the spectrum and I wonder where in the range mine is. Sometimes its hard to see the big picture and you find yourself questioning if its really happening and how bad. I decided it'd help if I made a summary list of the slights/digs/behaviours as far as I can, to help me see it in one place. I'll probably have to edit this as more come back to me. Maybe you'd like to add your own lists, it'd be interesting to compare notes.

Here goes... in no particular order

Always being introduced as the unplanned child
Telling everyone I'm a worrier
Being reminded, as a child, that I was a weak baby and inference a weak child
Comparison to friends/neighbours children
what would her friends/neighbours think
What would her brother think
My first day of uni, "you won't join any of these gay clubs will you?"
Monologues not conversations
My W wearing red shoes
My W coming from London, those funny London people
My W's father being a lorry driver
My W coming from a terraced house
My W coming from a council house
My W not being christened
Not putting my W 'inner city' birthplace onto the family tree research hobby
Wedding expectations (our wedding)
Upset that her desired person was not our bridesmaid
Wedding food choice
Only memory of our wedding was it was cold
Our choice of honeymoon
Checking our oven cleanliness
Reminding my W of every anniversary of her fathers death
If we have difficulty with others, first question is what did we do
Lecture W on contributing to marriage
Lecture W on running a home
No empathy for W difficult pregnancy, all in your head
Comments about our son being born very early
Saying she didn't like our sons name, repeatedly
Not using our sons name for first six months, nickname instead
Present giving competition outdoing ours to our son
Terrible gift giving to us, not knowing us
Choosing most minimum bland food if out at dinner with us
Changing subject halfway through my news
Glowing reports of brother/grandchildren/time spent with them
Being the news/communication controller
Sending passive dad to anger management
Commenting on me having a stock of alcoholic drink
At/during dad's death, sad that retirement time hadn't been happier because of him
Saying more upset about brothers divorce than dads cancer death
My W not included in the first draft of Dad's funeral eulogy
Me being described as the third extra surprise child in my Dad's funeral eulogy
Major upset when finally gently told of our hurt and discomfort due to her comments criticism opinions, how could I be so horrible
Giving W flowers with a written non-apology note, "l'm sorry for whatever you think I said".
Saying she'll sort it out one day when she finds out what she's meant to have done wrong
Hijacking MILs holiday
Saying we are always negative, too sensitive, fussy
Saying I don't visit enough, but excuses for brother 'so busy'

So basically that's my list, for now. What's yours?
:yeahthat:

Sheesh. I don't have the energy to write my list at the moment, but that is a LOONG list. None of it good. : (

Hello,

I am wondering about red shoes. I have probably half a dozen, maybe more.  Is wearing red shoes odd?

How dare W come from a terraced house. So scandalous.

I feel like we have the same mother, cakeman!
It's uncanny.

Hi CakeManUK,

Based on what I've read about people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), your mother is pretty far on the spectrum and seems to me like full-blown NPD, though I can't diagnose.

Are you reading any literature on narcissistic parents and how they treat their children? Many of the behaviors you list are in line with the literature on NPD.

footprint

Quote from: needfixing on December 19, 2019, 09:39:43 PM
Hello,

I am wondering about red shoes. I have probably half a dozen, maybe more.  Is wearing red shoes odd?

I think his mother was criticizing his W because W wore red shoes. In addition to coming from a terraced house. (eye roll)

Appaloosa
Yes its long, but spread over about 35 years.

Needfixing
My W (girlfriend at the time) had red shoes one day. Nothing was said but M stared intently and disapprovingly at them. I  *think* way back in the uk, some people regarded the wearing of red shoes as a sign the owner was touting for 'business'. Either that or its just disapproval - wearing bright red lipstick or a short skirt would have got the same reaction, according to M's 'standards'.

Footprint
Yes, the more I read, the more clicks into place. I suddenly go "Oh that's what that was"! Sometimes when not reading or even thinking about it, those jigsaw pieces land.

Now come on, I need your lists!

I'll make one after I finish giggling about the SCANDALOUS red shoes!!!! I have several pair, one is stilettos, maybe W could borrow those and really send your M into the heliopause??
Ok here goes: (tee hee snicker)

Always asking what I'm doing.  The correct answers are: baking, cooking, or cleaning. Any other answers not related to housekeeping/homemaking of some sort are met with major disapproval.

Snarkily asking how/what H is doing, if working, or if "keeping busy".

Making up job titles for me whenever she feels that mine aren't sufficiently fancy (they never are). She tells her friends and associates these made up titles.

Meddling through my house whenever she comes over, reads cards, notices, anything she can find.

Mines the kids for info. This is harder to do now that they are older (19 & 15)

Makes nasty digs about our employment/financial status/how we spend money/on what.

Says we never smile, never go anywhere, never have any fun, never do anything with the kids. (Gee, but we make a point to pay bills n shit first, crazy, I know. And that's a lie about the kids. Well, all of it is. We just don't do what SHE wants us to do.)

Bitches about our animals and what we choose to have and how we choose to keep them.

Bitches about our parenting and what we do and do not do w/ kids. Constantly trying to guilt into/play the kids into doing stuff she wants us to do. Again, this is more difficult with older kids, but NOT impossible.

I'm sure this list goes on forever, but that's all I can think of.
I jumped out of the frying pan (FOO) into the fire (FOC). Sizzle, sizzle.

Thats a Borderline Queen i reckon, dont know what others think. Image/status is everything. Control through shame and guilt.  "Understanding the Borderline Mother" by Christine Lawson should be an eye opener.

My list is not complete.  I have jotted down a few though.  I might add some later when they come to me. 

Always introduced as the baby of the family

Tells everyone that I'm bi-polar.  That wouldn't bother me if I was actually bi-polar

Makes a bee-line to anyone I make an acquaintance with (I'm very careful who I make acquaintances with).  First thing out of her mouth to the new acquaintance is "Don't tell K. that I contacted you".  Then smear campaign starts.

Ignored me in a group.  In groups, she had to make sure people were aware she is in the room by her very loud laughter.

When I was alone with her (I'm NC now), it was best to keep conversation on safe topics.  To talk about the past, only invited hearing her own re-configuring of the past.  She completely changed history to the way she wants people to see things, esp. about me.  It was difficult to even have a conversation with her about anything.

She threw hissy-fit any time that I stood up for myself, and she acted like I had a problem when I tried to set any boundaries with her.

Didn't give support any time I would tell her how I was setting healthy boundaries with others.  This would really upset her and she would, once again, act like there was something wrong with me and never the other person.

When I was still in unhealthy, dangerous marriage, she would exclaim "What did you do?" with a tone that it was my fault, anytime my husband hit me.

In all the years that I was growing up, she had 3 large closet-full of nice clothing at all times, while all her children made do with old clothing that people  brought to our home.  Very humiliating in a small town where all the kids could recognize their own old clothing.  It was awful.  Weird thing was I never contemplated the obvious, that m. had new, nice clothing while her children were lucky to get one pair of new shoes each school year.  (I remember one year she bought me a too small pair and I had to wear those the whole year.  I wound up with in-grown toe nails that I suffered from for years after that.)

Constant spread of disinformation behind my back designed to keep people from friending me.  This I found out she spent a major amount of time and focus on.  It feels like her life's goal, in fact.

That's the end of my list.  I agree with another member that your list shows that your m. is on the high end of the scale.  (I believe my nm is too).  Your list gave me chills, in fact.

Oh gosh, I forgot on my list the most obnoxious part:
All support and admiration goes to my bro. My alcoholic not job holding down not keeping it together multiple DUI, jail stints, never paid child support, nephew now going down same bad road, brother.
THAT guy. She tells glowing stories about how much money he's making (oh yeah? Well no one in the family that he owes zillions has seen a red cent) and how successful he is (oh? Then why is he crashing in your spare bedroom again?), etc ETC AD NAUSEAM all the while taking digs at us.
Everyone else in family is either NC or VLC with bro. He never talks to us but to ask for money, and we've all learned hard lessons there, ages ago. M pushes and pushes everyone to establish contact, and fabricates these little stories where we have warm relations, but it's not true.

Ok:

Friends are assessed on suitability based on parent's jobs and location of home.

Friends from a non-suitable home are pooh pooed  :aaauuugh: and dismissed or scorn poured upon when referred to.

If unsuitable friends dared to 'call for' SG child at Tea Time, a bollocking of unsuitable friend, referencing a violation of etiquette) would ensue on doorstep along with a firm semi-slam of front door.  :mad: :mad:

SG's bedroom to be thorougly searched daily for evidence of drug-taking, smoking, sexual activity, affairs with married men, incomplete homework etc. Child to be challenged vociferously upon triumphant production of evidence, citing *cleaning* as reason for search.

All potential husbands must be a) upper middle class, privately educated with good breeding or/

Of good financial standing and utterly sycophantic to Mothership.

ON NO ACCOUNTS must potential husband have mind of his own and call mother 'pet'; this is deeply disrespectful and offensive.

Prospective partner MUST NOT utilise poor grammar.

TBC....

I am loving these lists, in a horrified way.
:aaauuugh:
They are making me feel less crazy and giving me some confidence that my own assessment of what is happening really is what is happening. The trouble with PD is that you are left questioning yourself. The penalty you imposed of LC or NC is a terrible one and if unsure, FOG will eat you up. I am amazed by how the common themes and behaviours align with textbooks and web resources on the subject, but also by the variety of methods, angles, levers used - quite ingenious really.

Keep those lists coming!

 a lot of this list rings true with my Dad. I see a lot concern your W. Dad does this too. He seems to have some very strange views on how a wife should behave (Lets just say I know why hes been divored twice)

- Always asks where she is. If shes doing something like playing Netball he tuts.
- Tell me to ask her to do his laundry (too bone ideal to buy a washing machine)
- Tells me to tell her to tell her employer shes not working over xmas because hes coming up (shes a district nurse and no you're not coming up!)
- Went nuts when wife didnt phone him specially on his birthday. (shes never done this)
- Says its her fault that we had another kid late in life (ha ha nope I played a small part here!)
- Says she spends too much money (mind your own business)


The list goes on. Mrs can't stand him and I can see why but he doesnt think hes done a thing wrong.

Oh wow. Here is a partial list, because I don't even think I can remember all of them (some of this is uPDM and some if it is uPDF and some is both):

When someone did something bad to me, asking me what I did to cause it
Counseling me never to try something I might fail at, and discouraging risk taking
Interfering with relationships if she didn't like the person, telling them I didn't want to speak to them if they called, etc.
Disdaining my taste as a child and not letting me dress as "girly" as I wanted to
Criticizing my anger as a teenager
Telling me repeatedly she disliked my first husband, yet pushing me to get married because who else would have me?
Telling my then-fiance "she's your problem now".
Taking over wedding planning for my first wedding and when I disagreed with her choices, telling me I have no taste
Disliking my chosen name for my son and declaring she was going to call him a completely different name
Insisting on being the only grandmother (of 3) to be called "grandma". The others had to have their name attached ("Grandma Sue").
Hassling me to have kids and then to move closer to them when my kids were small but then literally ignoring them for their entire lives.
Dismissing my kids from the room if they made noise.
Being upset that my baby son hit his head on a precious piece of furniture, asking if the table is OK, as he's bleeding/screaming
Freaking out if my small children dropped food, like individual peas, on their WHITE carpet
Taking hapless guests on a "tour" of their art collection, complete with tedious lectures on the "meanings" of the various pieces
Generally lording their intellectual superiority and better taste over everyone
Being personally offended by differing taste/choices, even in small things
Saying, often, literally, "I see you as an extension of myself"  :aaauuugh:
Saying often how like her I am, "you get that from me"  :aaauuugh:
Criticizing my hair, makeup, clothes, body, as a teenager
Criticizing all boys/men I chose to date/marry
Criticizing my kids, house, decoration, housekeeping, ad infinitum
Failing to understand my dissatisfaction with my "fancy" career and never understanding who I really am - saying often they expected me to be a Supreme Court Justice when I hated law from the get go.
Humiliating me in front of others with critical remarks about my appearance
Fighting like demons with each other in front of others and refusing to acknowledge anyone's feelings about it
Finally liking my current husband and suddenly changing her tune and being nice because I've done something she approves of.
Pumping me for information about my adult kids so that she can criticize and also brag to her friends, when she has no relationship with them.
Being jealous when I spend time with others in the family without her, worrying we were talking about her (we are, tbh)
Smear campaigns against me (telling my bro "I don't HAVE a daughter" now that I've gone VLC).

Yeeeaaahh. Like you, I don't always believe that they're THAT bad. Writing it out  - and there's lots more I could add - is an interesting exercise. What do you all think?

Oh, I have more:

Bringing up embarrassing things I did 40 years ago in front of others ("remember that terrible blush you wore in junior high? Remember that awful boyfriend you had when you were 15? OH, what was that BABY BLUE EYESHADOW about? Teehee"). I am not kidding about this.
Assaulting things they don't understand, even/especially when they're positive changes ("yoga is a CULT", "what do you mean you aren't DRINKING?")
Asking if my daughter's recent breakup "was her idea" (not her business, and what is she doing, implying she got dumped?).
Rolling her eyes when I say my kids were delightful when they were little (they were! She just never cared to interact with them)
Failing to understand my first husband, who she hated, was the only reason I spent as much time with them as I did, as he was also sort of NPD-ish and very "family" oriented. Conversely, failing to understand my now-husband, who she loves, is the reason I'm VLC with them now, because he understands and supports me!

I'm just "getting over" another bout of severe hoover-itis. I have gone over the items in my list so many times in my head, and then promptly fall back into the fog... maybe writing this out here will help to make it more real (and protect it from my excellent skills of avoiding and tolerating cognitive dissonance going forward):

[this list is in no particular order, just free-writing here...]

- telling me that she doesn't like babies, with a smile on her face
- at the train station (in public, not at home) on the way for a family hike, telling me that my sweater is covering up my shorts, and that I look like I'm not wearing pants and then giving me a face of utter disgust
- i have not one memory of her holding me or proving any sort of physical comfort
- after my younger sister "successfully" sells rocks to neighbours (she's about 6yrs old, of course people are going to respond to her little booth), telling me that I'm not good with money
- sending me (~12yrs) to get an assortment of toothbrushes (for a creative gift idea), and then reacting with exasperation and ridicule when I spend "too much" money on the supplies: again, I'm not good with money (there is never any follow-up to teach me any financial skills)
- telling me repeatedly that I'm hysteric when I show any sort of "uncontrolled" emotions
- as a teenager telling me point blank that the reason why I'm struggling is that I don't have any self-confidence, in a tone that insinuates that this is my own fault
- repeatedly responding with "are you sure?" / "really?" when I provide an answer to her asking what I want, to the point that I'm unable to say what I want
- ridiculing me for "not knowing what I want"
- after my father dies in an accident (I was 17, my sister 13), not sharing any of the condolence cards and letters sent to "us" unless they were explicitly addressed to me and/or my sister
- never speaking about my father again, or sharing any information about the ongoing court case
- blaming me for not providing any support to her after my father died
- "acknowledging" that we were never close - like it's the same as both agreeing that grass is green -, but not showing any empathy over how this might have been difficult for me growing up and instead pointing out that she got along with my sister (so she couldn't have been the problem)
- telling me at various points how much she likes some of my friends from my childhood, and that they have a special connection (unlike she and I)
- I felt utterly lonely as a child and through my teenage years. At some point, when I was about 12 yrs, I shared some of these feelings with my one of my gf with whom I had this fun pen-palship, even though we were in the same city at the time and also spent time together hanging out. My friend was upset reading how I felt and shared her concerns with her mom. Her mom, like any normal adult, went to my mother to alert her. My mother then tore a strip off of me, and how dare I make her look bad in front of others. There was never any follow-up on the content of my letter.
- My father died while we were on vacation abroad and so we had to notify family. My mother shoved the phone in front of me and said, call your god-mother (her sister). I was 17 and in shock, and asked, what should I say? She just looked at me. I dialed the number, and my god-mother picked up. I stumbled out the words "dad died" - before she could respond, my mother took the phone out of my hand and from there on I was not involved in any way in the handling of the passing of my dad.
- Repeated silent treatments
- Ongoing triangulation between her, my sister and I
- Not providing any information about how to use sanitary products, when I was finally able to tell her I got my period (I was hiding it for several months, it was too embarrassing), but simply telling me where her products are in the bathroom
- Leaving it to me to figure out that her products were not right for a teenager and leaving it to me to figure out how to use tampons (her reaction was disgust when I asked if I could buy some and "well, you need to know if you really want to use them")
- I broke up with my first boyfriend because I couldn't get myself to let my parents - i.e. my mother - find out; it was not save to feel joy and happiness around her
- Making my first serious boyfriend feel unwelcome in HER house, the entire time we dated (this was the motivator for me to move out)
- Re-purposing my old bedroom within days after I moved out, to let me know that I was gone
- Always, always handing out money and making generous gifts - insisting on continuing to give me money even now, as I somehow still need her financial support (I'm not good with money, remember)
- Trying to split me and my husband and when that didn't work, ignoring him for years (his name not included in Xmas cards, calling on my cell rather than our shared landline)
- telling me "oh, you're so smart" like it's something I should be embarrassed about (at least I'm smart, because I'm certainly not practical or good with money)
- after going to a medium (she was into esoterics for a while), coming proudly to me showing off the drawing that was given to her: it had two brown spots on it, one lighter and one darker spot. She tells me "guess what, these dark spots are you and your sister; she's the darker one (cue splitting) and you're the lighter one. It was really interesting, you should go too" - how the fuck do you respond to something like that?
- always asking what I did for my birthday, other events, and sadly nodding that I don't do much socially - and then letting me know that she has so many friends and that she really likes spending time with them, and oh well, not all of us can be like that (i.e. socially "successful").

A whole bunch of other shit, but those are the "highlights" that come to mind... and I need to take a break now before I get nauseous.

She is a successful, energetic, vibrant, creative, social woman - and I have always and my inner child continues to be completely terrified of her - I recall being stunned, speechless, when I realized as a teenager that other girls actually confided into their mothers and had close (trusting and loving) relationships with them.

Quote from: samtosha on December 24, 2019, 09:47:57 AM
Criticizing my anger as a teenager

One of the things I do remember about being a teen is that my mother particularly seemed to dislike when I expressed anger or frustration. She was allowed to do it, because it was her house and she was the adult, the perfectly wronged party in the Never Ending Divorce Story.

Tob-ler-one, yes! Their anger was always appropriate. Mine would often be greeted with mock surprised faces and laughing (uPDF) or criticism of my "behavior " - when my anger was usually a reaction to something one of them said/did (see list, above). Grr!!

I'm feeling a lot of guilt lately so this might be helpful.
-always left us to our grandparents care whenever possible as young kids.
-don't remember her doing anything with me- playing or reading bedtime stories.
-when parents divorced (age 7) my brother (5) told me about it. Mum didn't tell me because she was 'worried about my reaction'.
-obviously struggling with the divorce and attachment issues and she refused to spend time with me. She accused me of being ott when I cried about it.
-looked down on all of my friends
-didn't explain periods to me so when I got mine I thought I was dying. Never kept sanitary products topped up and the constant complaints about having no money made me too scared to ask for any.
-kept me too up to date and too in the know about her love life/boyfriends/breakups.
-treated sibling and I like we were awful kids who were a bane on her life.
-how much time she spent with us always depended on whether she had a boyfriend or not.
-came out to her as bisexual (pressured by a friend) and she looked at me in disgust and said 'why are you telling me?' (She is not homophobic). She hasn't acknowledged that conversation in 20 years.
-guilted me in to giving her a lot of money as a teenager and instead of paying it back would buy me clothes to a lesser value. When I complained she said 'well you'd only spend it on clothes anyway'. Not true I was saving to get out of there.
-guilted me in to leaving my job to babysit my youngest brother because she hadn't arranged childcare.
-ignored the fact that I was self harming, starving myself and suicidal as a teenager. She read my diary and knew everything
-moved house without telling me while I was still living with her. My brother told me before the packing started. There was no room for me in the new house (I was 17). She didn't tell me because she was worried about my reaction.
-once I moved out had very minimal contact with me. If she had no man in her life she would call more often but if there was a man I would get a few calls at the beginning of the relationship telling me everything. Then radio silence until they broke up.
-when my partner and I decided to get married, so did she. When we had to post pone our wedding because my ptnr lost his job she cried down the phone to me about how she had to postpone her wedding because of money issues.
-frequently ignores my phone calls/messages. When she calls it's at a time when she knows I won't be available.
-when I told her I was pregnant she changed the subject about the husband of a lady she worked with dripping dead. Same convo she mentions to me that she is getting married in 4 months and will I be able to come  (I live abroad now and flights at that time of year are a months wages. Not to mention I'd be heavily pregnant). She guilted me about not making it and how she wanted me to be her maid of honour (but hadn't told me?)
-came to stay with me for 2months after baby was born to be a 'good grandmother' but did literally nothing. Not even make me coffee. Did nothing but stress me out and make me wait on her hand and foot.
-has little to do with my little one. Doesn't send cards or presents. Doesn't call. Just posts stuff on social media to make it look like she has a relationship.

Ugh. I think that's long enough. Sorry guys.

- Randomly told me about that time a sex worker approached my father for business.
- Heavy focus on men and relationships and confusing messages about men and relationships. No contraceptive talk.
- She did not sit down once with me as a teen to talk about what was going on with me.
- Blindsided by the divorce and clearly regretful, she used me as her unpaid therapist and comfort.
- Involved me in her anger against my Dad
- When I had a panic attack because there was an insect in my room, I was screamed at. "Stop screaming! Stop it! STOP IT. STOP IT."
- Insisted on washing my hair up until I'm not going to tell you how old :blush:
- Occasionally looked at me like I'd landed from another planet.
- Told me I needed plastic surgery.

I forgot the time M projected her utter disapproval of alcohol onto my W and used it to  kill a party and embarrass/blame my W. At a family BBQ, first time W had met many of them, a few drinks around nothing crazy, M suddenly announces "W doesn't approve of alcohol". My W felt the whole party went silent and looked at her, as if my W had told them all off.
You know the more of these I recall, the thinner that fog gets.  ;)

All you posting your lists...
:bighug:
Keep em coming
:heythere:

I'm sorry I'm not able to put them all in one list.

- Parental alienation, but I didn't know she was doing it ("He doesn't care about YOU!")
- Announced my exam results, then stalked out of the room
- Told me to say something to a school bully that was inappropriate and wildly off-base
- Told me what kind of wedding dress I needed to wear
- Intimated how much better things would have been if she'd just "married someone else"

Quote from: CakeManUK on December 19, 2019, 05:35:34 PM
Comparison to friends/neighbours children

I was told on more than one occasion that I needed to "grow up". Other girls were "so far ahead" of me. I think it was obvious to other people as well, and yet my mother just used to take the p!ss or patronise me.

@JonesMalone I am reading all of everyone's input and am stunned by one where your Mom bought a new home without a room for you !  !   and didn't tell you until they were moving.

What did you do?  As much as I wished I lived on another planet when I was growing up, the lack of support and the shame I would feel at not being wanted and not being told about the move, would floor me.

My Parents
-Told me I expressed too much emotion because I cried easily
-Called me "Little Miss Sara Bernhardt" because I modeled the same explosive behaviour my parents had (i.e. wait, wait, wait until the thing is too annoying to be endured apparently, then scream and insult
-Mom yelled at me for not smiling "correctly" in photos - my mother told me she wasn't going to buy my school photos until I learned to smile right. I had a twin sister about whom this was never said
-Called me a drama queen for crying so hard I hyperventilated because my dad screamed at me for spilling orange juice
-Got mad at me for "embarrassing the family" - aka wanting to talk about my special interests in public and not having an understanding of time and place
-Told me I was lazy for having bad grades
-Yelled at me for having a messy room - Dad threatened to take me to juvenile court over it. In high school. The day I won a big award is forever ruined because of that.
-Told me I needed to accept my grandfather's alcoholism and ill - treatment because "that's how he is." No, I don't *need* to do anything that makes me a lesser being and a further abuse victim.
-Dad mocked me for not being able to talk right and then got screamed at for running away in tears and slamming the door because OH NO NOT SLAMMING THE DOOR! CLEARLY THIS IS THE REAL CRIME HERE!
-Told me constantly the dyed hair I loved and made me feel pretty was ugly because I should be happy with the hair God gave me.
-Told me I didn't remember the day my mom told me my grandma died correctly because "I wouldn't do [a call late at night]." Welp, you did. And screaming at me insinuating I'm calling you a terrible mother and gaslighting me isn't helping.
-Dad insisted I pretend to be my dead mother to change the cable, etc. into his name because he "didn't feel up to doing it" Oh, and traumatising me is better?
-Dad expecting me to be his therapist in the wake of Mom's death and telling me about his suicide attempts and his belief in past lives and all this other stuff I was just...not prepared to handle at any time, never mind when I'm trying to process the deepest loss and grief I have ever experienced.

My Grandparents
-Ruined Halloween for me by screaming at my mom because I wanted to be a vampire
-Excused my grandpa's bad behaviour always on the booze (yet he never made any moves to kick the habit...how odd...)
-Told me my professors should slap me for having verbal tics such as "like"
-Grandma paraded around my mom's ring that dad gave her after mom's death, saying "Look at the ring my son - in - law got me!" as if she wasn't there the Christmas Dad gave it to Mom for their 20th anniversary.
-Told me I betrayed my grandfather who baptised me by converting to Catholicism, that I broke vows to God by doing the same, and that I now served a man who served Satan
-Were apoplectic that I fell in love and started dating a man without telling them, and were further angry that he would not travel 7 hours one way so that grandfather could approve of him (as if I didn't know my own mind, or my dad was now dead)
-Got angry that I let them know the wedding would be a Catholic Mass so they could decide whether to attend or not, because "I don't know why you would think that would be a problem" ....Oh really now??

...So yeah, my family is not as messed up as some, but...it has its entertaining moments.

OMG, after reading your post, I just started typing in a Google Doc. Sorry this is crazy long, but honestly, reading these lists is so comforting to me, so I hope mine is helpful for others too.

She has always been jealous of my success
She wishes I would fail
She has never liked my husband
She has emotionally manipulated my daughters
She has done potentially physically harmful things to my daughters when they were little
She has stolen money from me
She helped ruin my relationship with my MIL by lying to her about me
She shared confidences with my MIL
I have had to be the parent for most of my life
She has told family lies about me
She lied to her hubby about me before he died
She put a lot of stress on her DH (not really married and too young to be considered my step dad)
Her DH died trying to pay off debt for her material stuff she demanded
She treated her DH like a slave
She manipulated her DH
She has ruined some of my friendships
I struggle with mental health issues as a result of her "parenting"
She only loves me when she is getting something material out of me
Every time she texts, she finds a way to lay a guilt trip and try to shame me
She is emotionally and physically exhausting to be around
She has stolen from my DDs
She tried to steal from DH when we were dating
She physically abused my brother
She always plays the victim
She is good at manipulating others against me
She is incapable of real love
She views my girls as an extension of me and pokes at them to get to me
She spies on me and my family through social media
She guilt trips my girls
My girls are uncomfortable around her
I have no idea everything my girls experienced with her when they were little
She has stolen from my DHs family
She has given me and my family expired food on purpose
She has purposely not bought me a Christmas gift or gave me something that she knows I will not like or is expired
She always complains about not having money
She wants me to pay for everything so she can just blow her money
She has never taken responsibility for her actions
She will never get help for her mental illness
She showed up at my job unannounced and cause damage to my reputation and job
She has shown up unannounced to my home
She always blamed me for estrangement and problems in our relationship
She always guilts me over the issues in our relationship
I have had to shut off  my feelings as a coping mechanism in my life which has caused me long-term mental health issues
I am not sure if I hate her and/or still love her
She ruined my relationship with DH who was an amazing man who loved my DDs like they were his own
I didn't see her DH the last month of his life because I had to take a break from her.
She didn't contact me when her DH died. She contacted my DHs family first, so I found out from my SIL he was dead
My daughters lost their best grandparent early because of her
Her manipulation has caused stress and strain on my marriage
My daughters experience anxiety because of her
MY DD sabotages relationships because she is afraid of being abandoned or getting hurt
My other DD is afraid to get close to people because of her .
My mom always questioned my parenting and made comments to my girls when they were at her house
She was controlling of my kids when they were little and at her house
She turned on my girls as they got older
She has always been destructive to my girls, but got worse as they got older
I don't even know if she ever loved my girls or just loved what she got from them
I can see patterns with my girls that I experienced as a child growing up with my mom
My mom can be mean and cruel when she is angry
She has punished other family members before
She has spread lies about other family members
She likes to turn others against me
She loves to play innocent when I confront her
She is good at making me second guess myself
She tries to manipulate me to contact her in text by bringing up childhood stories to create nostalgia
She purposely makes comments that go against my values to poke at me
She purposely using the wrong pronouns for our pets even though she knows their sex
She zones out when I talk
She always told me I was too strict on my girls
She always criticized Girl Scouts when we had our troop
She always says I am "lucky" I have my DH to take care of me as if I have no role in how my life turned out and that he is just some dumb "knight in shining armor" with no other purpose
She always says I am "lucky" to have the life I have as if I haven't worked and paid for all of it myself
She says she is proud of me, but it is always in conjunction with a text or call to shame and guilt me. It is a sham.
She is always over interested when my financial situation changes.
She always endears herself to my new friends so they will think I am nuts if I say anything bad about her.
She friends my friends and hubby's family on social media
She unfriended and blocked me on social media but remains friends with my in laws and other family members
She likes to brag about me and my success as if it is a reflection of her parenting
She would listen to my phone calls as a teen
She would spy on me as a teen for no good reason since I didn't do drugs or anything else bad
There were so many times she would suddenly like my DH because one of us has done something she approves of.
She made me buy all my own personal care products and clothes once I got my first job as a teen
She always threatened to kill herself when her and I lived together (I was 18 and was able to move us both out of my grandma's house) to manipulate me
I had to convince Donnie to move in with her when I got married so I didn't have to support her

Windchime
Thanks for your hard work on that list. Once again it aligns with textbooks on npd. I think this is a little like writing therapy, we can have a good old rant and get it out there.
I wish you some peace and time for self care.

There have been similar topics, but they were more top five or top ten types... Not all-inclusive like this. So I'll try chronological order from earliest to most recent I guess. Trigger warnings abound... this was the behavior of my uBPDm.

Spanking me for my bad attitude or being disrespectful because I disagreed with her or was unhappy about something.
I wasn't allowed to have my own emotions, so looked to her to figure out how to outwardly react to everything around us.
She projected what she thought I was feeling onto me, so even blank expressions were dangerous.
Got mad at me for being a shy child.
Got mad at me for forgetting the names of people I hadn't seen in years as a child and informed me I was being rude.
Complained when my girlish figure started showing because I could no longer wear handmedowns from my boy cousins.
Got very angry about buying shoes, church shoes in paticular. You know the little hard, shiny black dress shoes that eat the skin off your heels. I said they hurt, she kept trying to get me to wear them. She had a meltdown in Walmart.
Told me I read too fast because she insisted on screening all the books I read up until I was fourteen or so, when she finally gave up because I was bored to death waiting for her to hurry up and finish.
Shared all her stories of growing up with me, including age inappropriate ones.
Continued to threaten to spank me regularly into my teens.
Never facilitated the ability to make friends, and in the rare case that I actually managed to make a friend she would insinuate that their parents weren't "nice people" or some such nonsense. Because she was totally perfect, you know.
Failed miserably at preparing me to go out into the world, in fact, trained me to be terrified of any and all people. Because everybody has to be a pedophile or a rapist.
At the age of eighteen, when I got my first boyfriend at college, said to me something along the lines of "Well we hadn't decided when you'd be allowed to date..." Guess she didn't entertain the idea that I might meet someone nice in my first year out of the nest. Regardless, I was eighteen, she no longer got a say.
Constantly implied I was not a good daughter because I was NEVER homesick. Not once. Never have been, gee.... wonder why?
Constantly questioned me as to whether my husband and I slept together before marriage. We didn't, and she refused to believe it. That was a projection as I later found out she was quite promiscuous in her early twenties.
Never taught me how to dress myself, except it was virtually a sin to show a bra strap, and baggy clothes were the only okay clothes. As a married adult woman she later implied I was improperly dressed for wearing a tank top.
She went topless in the house in front of me well into my teens. Ew. That is all.
More recently... Was weird about my pregnancy. She kept asking if everything was all right, almost like she wanted something to not be.
Stated she couldn't wait to see me breastfeed. Um. No.

Never stopped talking. Ever. Everything had to be about her.

There's more, I could sit here most of the day, but this will do.

@Dear Abby by the time she was moved I was 18 and moved far far away.
It was really very hurtful but while looking back it's theme throughout my life.

I thought this list was good idea. So far mine's seven pages long.  :blink:

I didn't want to make a topic specifically about this:

- I used to share a bed with her, and it happened when I was an adult.

...
I can't believe I'm typing this. I feel so embarrassed. If you're wondering why I did it, the answer is because she used to cajole me into doing it. I can feel the embarrassment on my face as I'm sitting here. I was never to tell anyone. Isn't that laughable? She didn't want anyone to know.

I walked into her room one night and she smirked at me. I'll never forget the look on her face. She mocked me for "wanting" to do it, when the truth is that, if I remember rightly, she was always the one who asked.

There. I might just delete my account now.

Sending all of you so much love.
Horrible, horrible things they said and did. Yet here we are sharing our stories with clarity and compassion, seeking to end this intergenerational trauma and pathology and live and love healthily.

A very Happy New Year to all of us.
:fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks: :thewave: :thewave: :thewave:

Aww Tob-ler-one
No embarrassment here, you are with peeps who understand.
PD parents train us. They condition us. They drip feed. They normalise. Keep us thinking we are dependent and giving them supply. They keep us as children.
When I think how closed down I was, how childish I was kept, I am so embarrassed and sad at opportunities lost, life experiences that were limited and relationships ruined. How must I have appeared to everyone else! I lose hours daydreaming about how life would have been if I'd woken up earlier. I can only try to understand what happened and gradually file it and move forward.

******trigger warning for sexual abuse******






There's too much for me to actually list. So instead I'm gonna list things that I'm not usually able to.

-she claimed me and my younger sister were having sex when we'd shut the door to our shared room to block out her loud partying at night (I was 10)
-she claimed I was having sex with stuffed animals  :aaauuugh: at random times
-had a meltdown when she had to buy me my own bra at 14 because I couldn't fit hers
-forced me to show her how to use a tampon with my own body (I half remember this, it's like the top of my vision where the faces would be is blacked out, but I still remember our bottom halves very clearly  :aaauuugh:)
-woke me up one night to tell me I was a whore and a slut when my sis was pregnant (I was 17 and still a virgin)
-made me and my 3 younger siblings pray for her cancer to go away (she never had cancer) when I was 12 and then pulled me aside to force me to promise to die a virgin so she'll go to heaven
-actually tried to get me arrested for raping her!  :aaauuugh:
-got mad at me for not stopping her from beating me during a drunken rage
-allowed our 40something? male neighbour to grab my ass because he was helping us move on my 11th birthday
-told me I was trying to steal her 50yo boyfriend (bro2's dad) by letting him feel me up and look down my shirt when he'd do tickle attacks on me and my sis (I was 11-14, begging, and crying didn't make him stop)
-would spank me if I tried to defend or protect myself from her or my younger siblings
-screamed at me when I had my first period, accused me of making a mess on purpose and should have known it was going to happen
-got made at me for a week for having a secret baby (she saw stretch marks from a growth spurt on my back, I was still a virgin)
-bought me a bike for my 7th birthday that only my sis was allowed to ride (GC)
-would allow adult men to literally kick my ass when I would wet myself (I had a severe problem with bed wetting and peeing myself up to age 13, I learned at 35 that it's a sign of childhood ptsd) they got my tailbone a few times
-made fun of my peeing myself and would talk about it in public with strangers, while I stood there trying not to cry
-left me alone at home a lot, for long periods of time until age 6
-made me hold the cab alone (again up to age 6) when she'd visit her drug dealer at night (I remember it always being nighttime)
-screamed at me for running to her instead of letting her 45yo boyfriend pass out on top of me when I was 11
-she let her 45yo boyfriend climb into mine or my sis's beds to pass out after we went to sleep, he'd trap us by lying right on the blankets and pinning us to the beds (we had to help each other escape and usually ended up sharing a bed for the rest of the night, I was 10-14)
-I got a spanking for almost hitting her 50 yo boyfriend with my hockey stick to save my sis (I was 10 and that was the last time we ever got any sports equipment)

I'm gonna stop here, this is already a lot longer than I thought it'd be. None of us deserved this garbage  :grouphug:

Writing this actually felt pretty good, a bit upsetting, but also relieving. Also crazy how much stuff comes back to you when you start writing. Makes you realise that what you went through was REAL and really was as bad as you think it was  :-\

Childhood

• Telling me my father didn't love me when I was a child
  Telling me I was only born because my father was trying to hide an affair with his now current wife (my father never cheated)
  Shouting at 8 year-old me that I was the reason she had a falling out with her friend
  Making promises to buy me things or decorate my room as a child but then I would be 'bad' so lose that prospect
  Restraining me whilst I was crying and shouting against her saying my father didn't love me until I gave in and said it myself
  Constant tales of how my Father abandoned me - which weren't true (apparently I don't remember them because I was just so traumatised!)
  I would be grounded all the time for the smallest things (like trying to explain when she accused me of doing something wrong)
  I was once grounded for the whole summer - every time I tried to explain each word was an extra day of grounding
  Constantly being yelled out that I was a selfish child
  Grabbing me by the throat and leaning me back over the banister of the stairs shouting at me because me and my friend weren't cleaning my hamster cage fast enough
  Arguments that included her kicking/punching me

Teenage

• Calling me fat with back rolls (I was a slim teenager)
  When bumping into people she know at the supermarket after they left she fixed my hair and said "ow I wanted them to think you're pretty"
  Purposely making me late for School by taking a bath in our only bathroom at the exact time I needed it and not letting me in (she didn't work or have to be anywhere)
  Purposely making me late for anything and not letting me make my own way there so I could be on time
  Acting angry and hostile when I got my first boyfriend, and caused arguments to ground me when I had arranged to see him
  Got too attached to my second boyfriend and we always had to hang out with her at home playing cards etc
  She would tell me I wasn't a good girlfriend
  Telling me I'm broken because of my Father and as a result I have no empathy
  Saying I have a clothes problem and once brought down my entire wardrobe to the living room where I was with my friend and exclaimed that I had enough clothes to make an outfit for each day of the week. When she looked to my friend for back up asking "do YOU have this many clothes" she replied "I have like 4 times this amount" she acted defeated and avoidant.
  Yelling at me for coming home exactly on curfew at 10pm when I was 17. I should have come in 10 minutes earlier to show her I was responsible and making sure I was back on time.
  Telling me for years that I should learn an instrument and then when I was playing guitar she would take it away from me all the time as a punishment when she saw it was an outlet for me
  Told me I should move out with my boyfriend when I was 17 after we had been together for like a month
  Getting into an argument because she refused to let me have the train money to get to School despite saying that she would, which ended up in her kicking me on the ground. She accused me of trying to push her down the stairs to everyone we knew and wouldn't let me back home.

My cancer (age 19)

• Made me get my disability money put into her account so that it would cover my rent and upkeep (despite being in hospital most of the time and not really eating anything because I felt so sick). From this she gave me a £10 per week allowance and said I couldn't put it in my account because what if 'I went downhill' and she couldn't get hold of the money out of my account.
  Limited contact with my friends and family
  After my operation I wasn't allowed to lift anything heavy for 6 weeks - I got my brother to put my laptop on my lap whilst I was sitting in bed and she got angry and yelled at me. She went to take the laptop away and I held on as it was my only contact with the outside world and form of entertainment (I didn't have a TV or anything in my room) she fought with me for it, even though I had a healing operation wound of about 15cm long.
  During my chemotherapy she was constantly telling me that I was abusing her and taking advantage of her kindness
  She turned a support nurse against me with these claims - she was meant to support me but would only ask how I am doing then would go off with my mum to talk
  She yelled at me because I wasn't handling having cancer and wasn't dealing with it
  Wouldn't let me near people or go out because of the chemotherapy. I barely saw my friends or my father. But if she wanted to go out to eat, I had to go with her to a busy restaurant.
  Forced me to go to church with her even when I felt really sick - to parade me around for sympathy basically. She told everyone that I was being mean to her there and so many people would come up to me saying "you know you should consider your mum in all this too, this is also hard for her, have you apologised?"

Adulthood

• She opened my mail and saw my student debt, took it all into my boyfriend's place of work trying to "expose me" and told him and his coworkers/friends about my 'money problems' (she has no understanding of student debt she barely even finished School)
  Once recovering from cancer, told me that if I put my disability payments into my own bank account that I would have to move out
  Had a sit down with my boyfriend (when he went round to collect some stuff for me) trying to tell him how awful a person I am and asked "who told her she could put the money in her account?"
  When I moved in with boyf she came round one day screaming and yelling because she was still receiving mail to her house for me (it had been a couple of weeks) - I said you can't just come round to my house and scream and yell - she said "yes I can". My boyf told her to get out.
  Saying that me and my boyfriend broke up because he thought my body was disgusting (including genitals) despite me breaking up with him.
  When I moved back in with her after break-up she wouldn't let me have a key to the house. After months of this actually beginning to be inconvenient for her, she let me have a key to the back door only. This is because I lost my house key once when I was 14 at School.
  Visiting me at Uni for a weekend but bringing up all my stuff that I have ever owned, childhood photo albums, etc everything! She didn't consider me to live in her house anymore so had to get all of my stuff OUT. I was ejected from the family home where I grew up.

Of course throughout all this there was constant rages, moodswings, arguments, belittling, patronising, shouting, accusations and worst came to worst and I have been NC for a few years now. Still, feels good to get this off my chest. I had therapy last year but it definitely doesn't fix everything, things still creep back and I still have bad times but I have some tools to help cope with it all. The stuff listed isn't even the half of it.

Wow. Indi and d.dan that stuff is way off the scale. :aaauuugh:
:no:
You guys deserve such peace and happiness.

Quote from: CakeManUK on January 08, 2020, 06:08:18 PM
No embarrassment here, you are with peeps who understand.
How must I have appeared to everyone else!

Thank you for the reply. :)

I can certainly relate to that. SMH.

I had to laugh at the "being a  weak/sickly baby/child". That's SO my mom,lol For years she would remind me over and over again what a sickly, little tiny, premature baby I was and how much she sacrificed to come to the hospital every day and see me. I think she finally got the hint after much eye rolling EVERY single time she would bring this up. Thank God she's actually stopped the past couple of years.

Wow, these lists... I identify with you all, but I'm simulataneously so sad that you all went through it too.

I haven't written a list, but I did notice that for the girls among us, periods seem to be a thing that we suffer when it begins. I wonder if this is a common theme. When I was eleven we were given sanitary products at school. My mother took them all, and when it happened to me, I managed to hide it for a few days... then I told my Dad instead.

I just could not even begin to tell her. I don't know exactly why, even to this day, but I know that if I had told her, it would have been worse. She would have made it worse somehow.

This is troubling. Do our mothers resent the fact that we are women too?  :unsure:

Quote from: pipchick on January 10, 2020, 01:47:27 PM
Do our mothers resent the fact that we are women too?  :unsure:

Out of all my siblings, I'm the only one with my uPDmom's face. But I was the SG and sis was the GC.

It felt like I was my mom's doppelgänger, except instead of me being the evil twin... she was. I had come to the conclusion at age 12, that my uPDmom wanted to switch places with me and be the good twin. She wanted to be the good twin very badly.

Everything I did that proved I was me instead of her evil twin persona.... I think that is what my uPDmom resented.

I realised two things; one, that I probably didn't ever ask to talk to her about it because I just didn't want to talk to her about that stuff - and two, that she wouldn't have listened anyway. :roll:

I think confiding such a personal (and at that age, often embarrassing) thing to a person you can't trust with your feelings is part of it.

It wasn't red shoes, it was patent leather shoes that were disapproved of, but I only knew that when my friend got some. I wasn't allowed white shoes, because they would 'show the dirt'

When my sister was born she was wonderful, my dad said he wanted 6 more, when I was born, he said, 'no more' and wanted to throw me out of the window. This was said throughout my childhood.

When I was bullied, which was throughout school, 'you're shy' or your sister's friends said they didn't want to be her friend once. And? How is that helpful?

When I was bullied at work. Well, that is just what happens.

My mother didn't think my friend was suitable, especially after her Father left her mother for someone else.

Regular negative comparison to my older sister.

I fell downstairs and hurt myself but they didn't believe me, thought I was trying to get out of running an errand for them. I cried all the way back from the shop, it hurt so much.

Looking for a job for when I finished school, X has been offered several jobs, why haven't you? What are you doing wrong? Do you want me to come in the interview with you? Luckily she didn't.

If you don't get a job you could join the army.

Trying to leave home: don't take the first flat you look at.......then, a year later, why haven't you moved out yet? What are you doing? Do you want me to come with you?

Why are you going to university? Have you given up on men? (I went as a mature student, there were plenty of men there).

To my fiancé 'You will have trouble with her'

To me: 'you argue that black is white', 'you are too sensitive' 'I was on,y joking'

A mouse got in the house, I heard it scratching, they didn't believe me but did put poison down. They found it when they smelt the corpse and it became a story about how I brought a mouse home from school, which my mother would tell people, like my sister's boyfriends, who came to dinner.

Earrings and perms were 'common', although not when my sister had them. I have never had either.

When I had my 1st baby, we were invited for tea, my mother wanted him to stay, asleep, in his car seat. When he cried and I wanted to change him I was shown the bathroom where a chair had been placed so that I could feed him. She criticised my putting his carrycot on the floor, it would be too cold. She asked why I wasn't giving him bottles of boiled water. (I was breastfeeding, no need for water,  which is why I was supposed to feed him in the bathroom, obviously).

My OH gave me a spa treatment for birthday after the birth, 'you can't do that, you are a mother' also, 'you can't go out with friends, go shopping etc' for the same reason.

The city was without water for over a week but my parents had water where they lived. My sister was able to go there for a bath, to do washing, I got told, the road was still closed when it wasn't. When she couldn't put me off any longer my father rang to tell me that we could not go there.

When we were getting married my mother would not give an answer to the invitation, just made excuses, she had had an operation, she could not stand, sit etc, but she still could not say no. My dad got my sister to work on her and she finally agreed to come to the wedding but, days before my dad came to say she was in hospital with chest pains and she was diagnosed with angina.

And, when I did have contact with her she would regularly tell me how to do ironing, despite the fact I was ironing my uniform and clothes from the age of 11.

When my parents moved away it ws like my dad had died, she was the only person who rang, if I rang them he passed the phone to her or she answered. The only way I got to speak to him was by using the broken record, 'I want to speak to my dad' she always delighted in telling me he could call me whenever he wanted to but chose not to. Now they have found out one of their grandchildren is in hospital she was phoning my OH at home which I put a stop to as he is trying to work from home, I said they had to ring me, amazingly she lets my dad do that so I haven't had to speak to her.

Reading through the other lists is shocking but also reminds me of so much, I am sure there is more than what I have listed here. Minimising my injuries, opening my mail etc getting information out of whoever happened to ring when I was not at home.

G

I have new stuff to add.
So just quick, I got injured on the job, really bad sprain. I'm booted and on crutches and non weight bearing.  I have to see the ortho surgeon though it's not broken. I have the same healing time as broken, the damage is pretty bad.  Two days later my son shattered his arm at a crosscountry bike race. He absolutely has to see the surgeon, too. (What a family, eh???)
So my mom is bringing her auto transmission vehicle for me to drive. Mine is standard. She is also bringing blueberries so I can bake muffins for my son. My list addition is: refusing to understand that I have lost use of a weight bearing limb, and asking me if i need help, and then when i say i do, suggesting bizarre and scary ways i could help myself (and get injured worse in the process) and telling me stuff like "you just have to get creative!!" and pretty much trying to force me into carrying on like I'm not injured at all. Only my son's admittedly worse injury is of any consequence. Yes. He did break bones, badly. However, I am NON WEIGHT BEARING. I'm not, and I can't, stand in the effing kitchen and fiddle about with MUFFINS!!
Next list item: I'm always second, and in service to, males (in HER mind), even my own SON. We tease and call him King Henry because of how she is about him, it's so bad.
Like I always say, out of the frying pan and into the fire, that's me....

Well this is an interesting thread. Full disclosure, I wrote my list over a year ago as part of my recovery process, and have only shared it with my T. But now, here it is...

*Birthdays being made made to feel bad about wanting things (like cake)
*Being given the cold shoulder/open hostility for driving me to piano lessons that I didn't want to go to
*Not being allowed to use the bathroom after M cleaned it (and never told me she was going to, AND wouldn't let me use the guest washroom because she didn't want it to get dirtied up)  - who the F does that?
*Making me waste time each morning and tormenting me because my bedskirt (that I didn't want and no one saw) had to be perfect everyday
*Never knowing what I was coming home to, emotionally
*Having birthday / Christmas cards I got her crumpled or ripped up in my face (again, who the F does that do a kid??!!)
*Being choked on at least two occasions and being physically harmed/beaten on others, sometimes to the point of having to leave to protect myself (then having her tell my grandmother it was my fault)
*Being sworn at, belittled, told I was crazy, to "stop saying that" ( when I said I love you), to be told "good riddance" at night - WHO THE F DOES THAT TO A CHILD??!!
*Not being able to tell them if I was upset - my feelings are invalidated (Including when I was choked, "oh don't exaggerate, what's the big deal?"), being told she would lie if I called the police and they'd take me away
*Being told outright that I was resented for getting my MBA because it was money she could use - but never being allowed to have a job in high school and have my own independence
*Never having friends over - being made to feel isolated and weird
*Having to hide in my room or in the basement to feel safe and out of harms way
*Being tormented for going out with friends / having a boyfriend / getting married
*Being tormented for being in modelling or theatre out of jealousy - having my mother threaten to scratch my face
*Being tormented for dating DH (or anyone else for that matter)
*Always being told my decisions were bad and theirs were better
*Always being told that her behaviour was my fault when it clearly isn't
*Being constantly, CONSTANTLY emotionally dumped on when she was diagnosed with cancer and getting zero support or compassion when we went thru Dad's diagnosis - in fact, all she cared about was being angry with him about finances and tormenting him and me
*Wanting to leave the house as soon as I could because I hated being there
*Having to sew and re-sew ripped tights in high school
*Having to leave home to feel safe and peaceful so many times its hard to count (going to grandma's, staying in residence at Christmas, never coming home when I lived away, never coming home basically ever)
*Always wearing the same Halloween costume Every. Single. Year. and *not being allowed to eat the candy* (who does that??!!)
*Being given the cold shoulder/ ignored for interviewing abroad for a big promotion...WHEN I WAS UNEMPLOYED (and got no help financially or otherwise  from them)
*Being tormented and / or abandoned during the hardest / most important times in my life (Dad being sick, me losing my job, getting married, being pregnant) - WHO DOES THAT??????!!!
*Never being asked what I want or need for a gift for Christmas, birthdays, for my kids, wedding
*Being made to sit in the driver's side seat on a family driving vacation and having my defective car seat hit and kicked until she finally went to sleep, while my Dad drive beside and allowed it to happen
*Not being able to express my opinions openly - having to constantly coddle and compensate for them
*Not having close family relationships because they can't have people over or get along
*Being resented for going to grad school
*Being made fun of /criticized for my decisions, body type, who I spend time with, what I say, how I say it.

You know, it was good to review this again. I'm glad we are VVVLC.

Blessings and hugs to us all for having endured this abnormal behaviour from the two people that were supposed to be responsible for making us feel loved and safe.

LOL the red shoes.
Perhaps she thinks they are the same make as Dorothy's and if your W clicks her heels together twice there will be a magical puff that will spirit you both away from her....

I'm new, thought I'd post my list given how helpful and how many parallels everyone else's were. Quotes are verbatim.

I sort of can't help but find myself defining my life with my father as before/after two specific extended incidents, both when I was 15, figured I'd start with those;

- Noticing an eating disorder had made me dangerously thin, saw light headed sway; reacted by removing me from school imprisoned me in house to 'deal with this as a family'. Without warning confiscated my keys when I got back from school, only informing me when I couldn't find them and tried to leave. Left alone approx 12 hours per day while at work. Disassociated for much of the experience.
Monitored eating demanding we eat together, weighed me, squeezed bony areas to check my 'recovery process'
Sent back to school, similarly without warning. Contextual memory of school year, weather etc places duration at approx three months, during spring.
AT NO POINT TOOK ME TO THE DOCTOR.

And

- Summer break in the same year (less than a month later) informed me of a family holiday to his home country for four weeks. The first and only visit. Family home is a compound in city suburbs with high walls and electric gate.
Functioned via displacement focus (keeping hold of my passport and ticket at all times) and factual knowledge (return plane ticket, his commitments in London) indicating at least he seemed planning to fly back. Rather than be driven insane by the genuinely held fear I might not be returning home and inability to do anything about it.


Aaaand the rest of my list, interspersed with fatherly claims of how he'll always care for me, that 'I will always be his daughter' and 'I can always count on him', we have;

- Nonspecific condescension and dissatisfaction, broadly seemed to be connected by my gender led to me ask at approx. 14-15 in semi-rhetorical exasperation and disbelief
Me: God dad, did you want a boy or something?!
Him: turns from desk 'Yes, actually' looong pause, eye contact 'Your mother miscarried a/my son before you'
Then without another word turns back to desk, dismissing me. Refused to speak of it ever again.

- Explicitly stating 'I am a reflection of him. Bad behaviour and impropriety reflect badly upon him. When someone looks at or sees me, they see him and think of him' continued to do so until I moved out.

- Refers to me as a 'financial investment'. Has sent me 'how much I have cost him' - to the penny.

- Denigrated enjoyment of 'feminine subjects' at school and beyond, dismissal of interest in art and literature as 'impractical and irrelevant'.
Initial failure to achieve as high in STEM subjects as in these framed as 'only being capable of soft subjects', raising those grades to match went openly ignored.
Me: I tried my best...
Him: Demonstrably your best is not good enough

- 'I didn't send you to school to make friends'

- Unilateral expectation of high academic achievement, oblique threats of punishment for failure, told failure would 'reflect poorly on him as a teacher'.

- Achievement of solid As and a single B at pre-university (A-Levels) exams - unbearably proud, I rush home with my results reaction is sneering anger  'You got a B?'. Pride efficiently punctured.

- Frustration and inability to accept a tomboy - onset of puberty accompanied by pressure to dress and act accordingly 'Since you're a girl you should look and act like one'.
His instruction 'Stop climbing six-storey scaffolding!' (the inner city version of climbing trees, evidently) was definitely good advice, though - indistinguishable from every other barked instruction, I ignored it.

- Reflexive 'No' to any request with irregular unpredictable changes of mind made 'No' mean nothing to a developing kid. Criticism and anger at disobedience, sneering dismissal to obedience made rules/reasoning similarly irrelevant to a developing kid - only whether I was caught. Only as an adult am fully aware how unbelievably dangerous a lesson that is to teach a kid...

- Confusing presumption whenever I was allowed out I was 'just out looking for a boyfriend', any display of any physical discrepancy (illness or tiredness) prompted 'You're not pregnant like those other stupid girls, are you?'

- Refusal to consider allowing a sleepover at a friend's house until I was 17;
Me: Can I go to a sleepover X is planning?
Him: No - where did you learn that?
Me: Uh, at school.
Him: No. I didn't send you to school to make friends
Me: Wha- It's a side effect.
Him: No. I don't know these people
Me: I have her parents' number for you!
Him: No, why would I call these people? Why would you want to sleep there?
Me: My friends invited me...
Him: No. I didn't teach you that, where did you learn that?
Me AT SCHOOL.
Repeat for over an hour until I burst into frustrated tears, at which point he deploys 'See, now you've lost control - why should I even listen to anything you say?'

- Frequently opened bedroom door without warning, made it clear my bedroom was magnanimous privilege 'Giving me his roof over my head'. Privacy was met with sneering anger.

- No friend was ever been allowed to visit my house.

- Took me to open my first bank account at 13, I was very excited -  repeated punishment became opening my bag and wallet, being made to watch, confiscating the card reminding me of the trip, and I should be grateful he even allowed it. When not being punished, the card was irrelevant - lost it more than once and managed to order a new one before his next performance.

- Refusing to allow me to use the home phone without specific permission when I lived with him. Specific permission means 'No'.

-Early broadband and computer in my bedroom was only connection to friends out of school and the rest of the world (pleaded for when he replaced his own in the living room, framing it as useful for homework no extra cost, as he had planned to throw it away) disconnecting it from the router (that I set up), leaving only his own, served as a frequent punishment for 'defiance'

- Refusal to allow me a PAYG mobile phone, uncompromising resistance to me saving up and purchasing it myself, halted pocket money as a roadblock, demanded to know 'Why I even needed one', accusations I wanted to 'go and get pregnant like that other stupid girls'.
Got myself a second hand one off eBay; before it arrived I'd 'wasted my money on an internet scam', after it arrived I was 'going to lose it to a mugger' - much like the card and internet only relevance was removal as punishment.

- Active discouragement of saving pocket money and learning to manage money; 'If you still have some left, clearly you don't need any more'

- Active encouragement of financial dependence upon him;
On second day of my first weekend job at 16-ish, waitress at a local cafe - confiscates my keys not allowing me to go, or use the phone to call in. I'm absent and replaced. Justification is distrust 'I doesn't know whatever this cafe is' pleas for him to simply come and see, it is 15 minutes away by bus are met with unilateral refusal.

- Insisting that university in London meant I was living at home rather than on campus despite it being on the other side of the city, around hour's public transport away.
Refusal to entertain the possibility of me living in a shared house unless he paid my part of the rent, part time work would 'compromise my education' - uses it to leverage me visiting every Sunday, threat of 'withdrawing his support' if I refuse.

- The weekly visits extend through university waaay beyond graduation and into professional life; consisted of observations about my weight, wearing too much make-up, being too scruffily dressed, choosing an inevitable failure of career, current relationship
As visits become progressively sparser, adds accusation of cruelly neglecting him to the list - if he makes me cry £100 appears without explanation in my bank account.

- So proud of my final year dissertation he openly cited it in his PhD thesis, in adulthood so condescending he's constantly so openly taken aback that I'm not an idiot, unable to hide it, even by phone - 'huh - you know about X, do you?', 'uh huuuh, and where did you learn this from?'

-Most recent surprises; basic knowledge in the subject area of his current academic paper, given it heavily overlaps with the undergraduate dissertation he is oh so proud of - as such he gently introduces me to the topic with basic vocabulary definitons;
Him: I'm writing another thesis you know
Me: That's cool, what subject area are you focusing in?
Him: weary sigh 'Well, do you know what is meant when I use the word X?',
That a skilled proficiency in my chosen bloody profession was apparently unexpected with 'Oh, you're actually quite good at that'.

- Months into therapy and medication, only sought out 2-3 years after university - I decided to admit my looong term depression to him. Tearfully and hesitantly trying to get the words out, he interrupts with 'You're blaming me for this? Why don't you climb the stairs go and jump off the roof then!'

- When called on inexplicably cruel reaction closer to it occurring, is mortally offended that I would think that of him and tells me it's 'a joke I misunderstood',
More recently when reminded as an example why we have no goddamn relationship claims 'IF it happened at all, it's a joke I misunderstood. He is still hurt I think that of him' - how silly of me!

- Called once specifically to tell me 'You're not as successful as I would have hoped.' When I was unimpressed, unable to comprehend why and demanded detailed explanation of how this could be perceived as phoning me just to tell me that I suck - 'you should know that's not what I meant, I'm just worried about your future!'

- I am; ungrateful, rude, condescending, dismissive, hostile, vicious, racist, dismissive and cruel - despite his inability to give me any example of any occurrence, or why he expects this behaviour.
He; 'kept me under his roof', is 'just concerned for his daughter', has 'lost sleep worrying about me', is 'doing his duty as a father' and conveying 'truths as they occur to him'. He also 'stayed married to my mother to bring me up properly' - which is objectively hilarious, because 'properly' needs SO much therapy.

- Presumes he hasn't been on a low-info diet since he started using whatever I told him to better attack and is in any way qualified to predict my motives and principles or assess my personality. Predicts hidden meaning behind genuine attempts at verbal clarity, decides he is correct - irrespective of my actual input, inflection or words used.

- Strained lunch meetings with me him and my fiancé involve my fiancé struggling to keep his temper as my father openly conveys him more respect than me.

- Open dismissal of my arts-based freelance career at onset as 'not a job' or 'not a real job', seven years later, moderate success helping secure me financially independence it is now 'I assumed you would have found a proper job by now' and 'have you even bothered to think about your future?'

- Weekly visits pared down to not entering the house in 4+ years, lunch and phone contact only; now I am 'disinterested in him, cruelly neglecting him and my mother', in addition to previous criticisms. I point out how clearly I do not want to see him, showing no understanding beyond the entirely literal 'we've discussed this, you may see her when I am not here' - will never set foot back in that house.

- Recent years refuses to discuss her at all, aside from brief alarming descriptions of deteriorating physical health, piling guilt onto existing for the destabilising mental health I remember, the isolation of being stuck alone and dependant on him - which I will never unknow, and extrapolating years on top of both.
-Her mental health and diminishing hearing means we cannot speak on the phone. Attempts to blame her ailing health on my refusal to give into his demands to visit - when I ask if I could, unequivocally no.
-Accuses me of being devoid of caring, responds to concerned enquiry by intentionally withholding information and hostility at 'my judgemental demands he prove himself or his actions and justify his humanity' then pivots subject to his difficulty sleeping and how hard her health has been on him.

-Tells me of the death of his nephew; tense civility breaks for actual concern - I ask if he is alright, I'm here to listen if he thinks talking about it will help. He dismissses needing to, 'tells me he has sent money'
In a follow up email, I'm told I 'maliciously demanded details of his death in an intentionally cruel and racially insensitive' attack on him. When pressed refuses to explain why this is meaning is more plausible than the actual words I actually said.

-Tells me verbally by phone, then confirms by email 'He doesn't want someone like me in his life'

- Tells me 'my life is not impressive to him' staggering assumption it's intended to impress him, or he is even a factor in any way...

- Guilt of choosing my mental health over access to information about my mother's current condition cements decision to refer case to Adult Social Care, under family advisement and working theory that enquiry call will be more constructive if not a surprise and he's finished his tantrum first I send him brief notification about 'upcoming call to offer assistance' - first reaction at oversight is an invoice detailing items recently purchased to deal with current problem. Paid for = sorted.

- Then accuses me of caring even less and 'passing her care off to a convenient proxy' claiming it as an 'easy convenient decision'

- Claims she will have to be assessed elsewhere from his flat, telling me to collect her - less-politely told him how absurd an idea that is the importance of her living situation is clear, if he bothered to check the process.

- Claims 'They cannot enter his home if he does not open the door' - told he's incorrect again, this process will in fact be as hostile as he forces it to be.

- Has actually 'threatened' to move to East Africa with my mother in writing, something I'm fairly sure that would a) make him a priority case and b) make my life... simpler, at least.

- Dismisses the process as at all useful, he is 'unwilling to deal with the bureaucracy' - assumes it first started when he first heard about it.
Fundamentally keeps basing each assumption on it being about him at all, rather than bypassing him for HER.


Recent reactions are so scattershot, so I can only assume these reactions are intended to change my mind, they're only cementing my alarm - but it's impossible to tell what is actually true, prone to hyperbolic threats he's... a very confusing human.

...how am I still not entirely certain I'm not overreacting?

(Jesus, his greatest hits ended up longer than I thought it would be)

Quote from: CakeManUK on December 19, 2019, 05:35:34 PM


Telling everyone I'm a worrier
Comparison to friends/neighbours children
what would her friends/neighbours think
Monologues not conversations
Wedding expectations (our wedding)
Our choice of honeymoon
If we have difficulty with others, first question is what did we do
Lecture W on contributing to marriage
Lecture W on running a home
Terrible gift giving to us, not knowing us
Changing subject halfway through my news
Glowing reports of brother/grandchildren/time spent with them
Being the news/communication controller
Major upset when finally gently told of our hurt and discomfort due to her comments criticism opinions, how could I be so horrible
Saying we are always negative, too sensitive, fussy

These are the items that we have in common.  I would like to add:

As a child/teen:

-Weekly searches of my room for 'contraband'

-reading my diary, punishing me for what I wrote

-needing to approve my outfit choice for school

-never new clothes for me, only hand-me-downs...spent lavishly on themselves

-weird food rules: -no bananas or fruit, -can only eat at meals -must eat everything on my plate -forced to eat foods I did not like, while they laughed at me  -not allowed to open the refrigerator without permission

-never allowed to have friends over/ go to their houses

-not allowed to talk on the phone

-not allowed to use the computer

-forced to scrub like a scullery maid (way beyond normal, age appropriate chores)

-I was always accused of being sexually active when I wasn't..I was even taken to a Gynecologist at 13 and my PD parents asked the doctor to perform an exam on me and tell them if my hymen was intact.  Even the doctor was like, WTF?!

-wasn't allowed to wear nail polish or make up of ANY kind.  When I was 16, I painted my nails with glitter polish at school and PD parents made me remove it with a knife from the kitchen.  It took MONTHS for my nails to grow out

-sarcasm and eye-rolling if I mentioned something I was proud of ( a good grade on an exam) or something that I wanted to do (go to college)

-extreme and disproportionate responses and punishments if I did absolutely anything they did not like

-rules, standards, expectations were different for me than for siblings.  (always stricter and harsher for me)

-bizarre and cruel punishments (forced to repeat that I was stupid, dig holes and fill them back up,etc.)


As an adult:

-Posting incredibly personal (and objectively embarrassing) Facebook posts using my real name, public setting

-ignoring all of my achievements and milestones (university graduation x2, birthdays, marriage, birth of son, son's first birthday, holidays, new job, promotion)

-equating my achievements to sibling´s lesser achievements (saying my Master´s degree is the same as my sister´s diploma from an 18 month technical school)

-never initiating contact with me, not by phone, email, facebook....anything

-sending me gifts ONLY when I am visiting with extended family (to keep up the image of loving parents) and even those gifts are just horrible (e.g. clothing that is obviously too big, a XL when I am a XS)

-denying the past abuse when I mention it

-telling me not to bring up anything from the past, but they bring it up themselves

- accusing me of attacking them when I politely call them out on their abuse

-making me responsible for any issues or problems in the family



That's a good bit for now, but not nearly an exhaustive list

Gosh you guys, we share these: (I don't think I posted my kid list(
Not allowed to wear makeup, scent (not even any sort of scented lotion or any kind of deodorant not approved by her).

Not allowed to cut my hair or go to a salon. She cut my fringe straight across (disaster) and the back straight across. The back was past my waist so that wasn't as bad. Ny hair is curly, though, and she always called it my "long straight beautiful hair". It's....pretty curly. She BRUSHED it. I didn't know any better, so I always looked like a witch unless i braided it or something else. My whole life in the household.

Laid out my clothes. My whole life in the household. I refused to wear what she put out, even if she put out my favorite outfit or whatever I had been planning to wear that day.

On numerous occasions busted me in the car with mascara on, on the way to school( high school). Told me it didn't look good and i looked like a stroke victim. My brother busted out at that one and told her to come off it, but she had other digs at the ready.

Would scream at me for not having a boyfriend or "any friends". For not doing "normal things" in high school.

Never attended any sporting events because I "didn't play that much, so it wasn't worth watching". Didn't want me swimming because she didn't like it. Denied me the use of the car to get to practice. I had to drop the after school practice, because I had to walk to the pool and the bus dropped me off too late to make it. I got up at 5 am to walk to the morning practice, thank stars I even could. Coach was understanding. Pool wasn't on school campus.

Didn't believe in doctors. So many occasions when I needed one I never saw one....well once I did, and she was ripped apart by said doctor for transporting me over 100 miles and changing elevation drastically when I had raging double ear infections. Said what horrible pain I must be in and how could have perforated my eardrums. But the best was my falling from a tree, being knocked unconscious *for a long time*, and then falling in and out of consciousness for a bit after that. No doctor, no ER.

These lists are heartbreaking, yet weirdly reassuring in a sense that others' have been through the same?
Anyway, here's some of mine:

*Bragging about how she shook me when I was a baby
*Constantly mentioning what a vile, horrible baby/child/teen I was
*Telling me it was my fault my dad left her
*Trying to persuade me to commit suicide with her
*Making sexual references in front of me
*Refusing to speak to me for a week after my school contacted her because I was suicidal (she was mad because of how it made her look)
*Complaining when I was out of work for a month
*...Then complaining because the job i got wasn't good enough
*Telling me I would never leave home as I cannot look after myself
*telling me if I left home, nobody would want me
*Telling me to kill myself
*Once she bought a wardrobe she couldn't put together. She had a temper tantrum and started screaming about how she was going to find a man to do it, and f*ck him as payment "even if he has aids"
*In front of guests saying how her daughter (me) "never wears knickers so she's always ready for the next man"
*Driving erratically whilst I'm in the car and threatening to drive it into a wall. Because she got lost.
*Trying to push me out of a moving car because I weren't smiling at her
*Telling me my baby will die whilst I'm pregnant
*Screaming at the doctors in hospital that she is more important than the 'fucking boyfriend' because they wouldn't let her through to the operating room when i had a c-section
*Refusing to speak/look at me or my new baby in hospital
*TELLING ME I am not to have 'anymore kids or else'
*Snooping around the house/going through bank statements/documents
*Throwing a laptop at my kid
*Breaking into my backyard and moving stuff around as a 'I've been here' thing...

God there's loads.

I feel this list will be just what I need to rescue me from the FOG.

Here goes. I believe I have an UNPDsister, UNPDfather, both of the sinister covert sort. My mother - is something. She's sort of like a female Don Cherry, if you know anything about hockey and Canada.

Mother

Why are you so fat? (every single time I visit)

Sister
-Put a note on kitchen for Alchoholics Anonymous - directed toward me when I was 15. She found out about that I had two beers at a party that weekend and gas lighted me to think I might have an alcohol addiction.
-Looked at me (I was eight years younger) when I was a pre-teen and said, "I bet you want boys to pull your pants down" (Made me sick. I hated boys at that time.)
In my 40's I took a uni class. Sister attended the function where I read a piece of my work and afterwards said, "Wow, I don't know how you did that...having to be with a bunch of 20 year olds...didn't it make you feel old???" Blank, innocent look. (I stopped taking writing classes afterward.)
-Had piece of writing make a short list in a contest, and she looks at me as she sits on her couch and appears to be very distraught when I tell her because i am really happy, and she begins to fiddle with her hands and talk about how she wishes she had something in her life she could be proud of. I spend the next hour trying to cheer her up. It doesn't work. She has a no to everything I suggest. I leave her house feeling depressed.

Father
Tells me when I'm about seven that I am the chicken in the coop the other chickens will try to peck to death.
Cyclically tells me I'm too sensitive.
Says to me, "I wish I had done a psychology degree to try to understand you."
Tells me we had a normal family because we did family vacations every year, meanwhile the inside of that car down south, inflicted enough trauma to my brain, due to the screaming, slapping and cigarette smoke, that I'm surprised I can still stand.
Used his two evil old sisters to spread lies about me - saying I was going to be admitted to hospital and was suicidal, when I told him that this past holiday season I was having it with my immediate family, because I was taking care of my mental health.
Wrote a silly book that I self-published for my son and I gave copies to my family (for fun.) I had made my father the main character - a detective - and felt quite loving about it and happy for writing something - even if it was probably bad - just the accomplishment. He didn't read it and has no idea he is the main character - or if he did read some of it, he never mentioned one word to me about. None of my family said a world about the book and I wasn't looking for false compliments. I knew it was not great literature. It was merely a gesture to my dad and my son.

Not the whole list

Getting mad with a screwed up face and leaning in like she wanted to start a fight  when she found my book about narcissists then pretending like she didn't and saying I hope you never feel not good enough I'm so proud of you. (Twitching with the cognitive dissonance there)
•   Later bringing up the book while the kids and I were dependent on her for housing for a few days and the kids were already in bed, insisting we talk about it then dismissing everything I said.
•   Telling me 'be careful, or make one mistake and you'll lose your grandchildren too' as we were getting ready to get in the car to start our life in a new state. (Was I really so naive that I thought the words were going to be, be careful and call me when you get there?) WORSE she said it right in front of DD1, then 8.
•   Consistently neglectful of kids in situations she was either asked directly or has de facto responsibility for them, leaving them on  a dock, after I expressly asked her to watch them, wandered away after riding a ride with one of them, showing no concern for the the 9 yr old by herself in an amusement park.
•   Expecting blanket immunity for accidents with the kids that hadn't happened yet, actually said an accident isn't my fault so I can't be held responsible for it.
•   Expected to be able to take both children on a 750 mile car trip without asking us
•   Expected to be still be able to take DD1 on same trip after we told her we needed to come up as a family that year
•   Angry that I couldn't answer yes to a mythical two week trip with her alone with the kids without more information.
•   Told me to "just see what kind of house I could buy in [city I was moving to]? With a big pout and arms crossed. Just venomous tone.
•   Learned about the car accident she had with DD1 in car from DD1 not my mother
•   She formed a team with my kids so psyched them up about a vacation she never asked us if they could do. (uh, no!)
•   Insisted on professional photos- didn't include my husband
•   Dismissed legitimate parenting concerns and helicopter parenting
•   Dismissed things my kids want if she doesn't want that
•   Devaluing the work DD1 did on learning a guitar song, saying after that she then needed to o the one from last week two without planning that ahead of time.
•   Suggesting entirely unrealistic expectations like having a kid with two weeks of self teaching on a guitar should do a Disney song next week
•   As matriarch she demands everyone go to the fourth of july at her house, but won't provide drinks and always ropes someone else into cooking the burgers/sausages, and hides the silver if my cousin is coming, she claims he's a sociopath, but he's the only one that will hold a conversation with any of us for more than a minute
•   Said my grandma lives on hate
•   At my grandma's (her MIL) funeral asked for the ring off her finger (I don't care about jewelry and I just didn't want a scene so I said sure. )
•   Openly told stories about how when I got tired I put myself to bed... under my crib. (As an adult this screams of neglect to me)
•   Got an autograph jacket one Christmas. I had everyone sign it, She signed it "I'm sure glad you're not twins."
•   Told me was jealous of me because dad loved me more.
•   Told me to stop reading 'those magazines' (science magazines) and I might be able to get a boyfriend.
•   Made fun of my foster sister after she got injured her throat with a needle, then took everyone out for pizza (I mean the acidity, ouch)
•   Made fun of my uncle after he got hit by a train. Had me smash up a hot wheels car for him for a christmas present.
•   After I injured myself on a pin I hadn't realized I dropped, she walked with an exaggerated limp and looked up the sky repeating "I'm so stupid" pretending to clutch as the staircase.
•   Wanted to have my kids  SELL lemonade to the relatives at the reunion, all 5 of them  WHAT?
•   Pretending like we will be guests of honor at the 4th of july reunion but then DH has to cook the burgers and I run after the kids and don't even get to talk to anyone because no one else moves.
•   Yelling at me when I was young, nagging at Dad, then harping at dad
•   Has weird ideas she's said
o   It's the cute ones you have to look out for (What did the cute one do to her?)
o   Sometimes the only reason you don't leave in the first year of living with someone is because you're married (when I moved in with finacee, told it would be better to know before then wouldn't it, and what did that just say about my parents marriage?)
o   Took me to a lecture at a physics institute and told me she thought it would be better if it had less science in it.
o   Refuses to recycle because they don't pay her to do it
o   The accumulated storage fees of the stuff my dad had kept was enough for a face lift
o   Its more important to be interesting that to have an education (guess which one I have?)
o   If you are 3 months pregnant you can still fit into your wedding dress.
•   Mom insisting the we must go to the cabin 8 states away to experience summer properly but
•   then won't go take a short drive to the swimmable lake without the kids literally begging her to go
•   Telling me I wasn't ALLOWED to knit while I talked to the neighbors while on vacation at her house. (Yeah, thanks I can walk and chew gum at the same time.)
•   Several times in a row telling e my shirt was too revealing (started as a regular tshirt without even collar bone showing. Went progressively more revealing till she stopped mentioning it.) Do not tell me what to wear at 40 years old!
•   Huffs when the kids aren't paying her the attention she thinks she deserves. Refuses to skype if they have camp before because she wasn't getting her supply (request ignored, get serious)
•   Feels that me giving back a book that contained a few names of her distant relatives was 'stabbing her in the back and twisting the knife.'
•   Punished me to returning said book by repeatedly 'cleaning out her office' and asking if I wanted the stuff she was throwing out. It was only ever pictures of news clipping of me. (didn't know it was punishment just thought it was odd at the time)
•   Got mad my in laws were going to Disney and staying at a different hotel for the weekend than us and babysitting for us because I didn't invite her.
•   Bought meat off the back of a truck and wanted me to pay half and keep it in my chest freezer. Was flat out befuddled when I said I didn't feel comfortable buying discount meat out of a truck. But he asked me AFTER she already bought and paid for it.
•   Always angry- she had angry wrinkled between her brows in pictures where I was only two.
•   Insisted on being an hour early to a show with my five year old then made little kid bored noises while I entertained the actual child with brain teasers. Complained out $8 tickets didn't come with an orchestra and called the lead ballet dancer the sugar plum hippo cause she was above average in size.
•   Told me she would break all my fingers if she ever caught me smoking- I believed her.
•   Admitted more than once she doesn't care about anyone else, only about herself
•   While watching cinderella, and the character says if you can be anything, be kind. Mom goes 'yeah, thatll get you far in life." Real sarcastic. In front of the kids.
•   After barely talking to me offered to go to do something with the end purpose of trapping me in her car and lecturing me that I need to talk to her for her to know what she did wrong. When I told her I feel less than supported over our move, she said sorry but it was just that she was thinking of her catastrophic loss at us moving, turning it around and making it about her and putting all responsibility for her behavior on me.
•   Called her, told me I NEVER called enough, visited her I NEVER visited enough
•   Waifed/guilted at me giving me a lecture I should visit more because she could fall down the stairs and die because "no one visits her and by no one I mean you." All this while I WAS VISITING.
•   Dismissed my daughters activism
•   Gives gifts based on how she feels about me at the time. Either gifts she wanted (back lotioners, a magnifier (same kind she set her house on fire with)) or can't be bothered like a thrift store set of craft supplies with have the kit missing and half of the other half are damaged, given two months after birthday because she didn't want to pay for shipping.
•   Got huffy we were spending Easter with Catholic friends (She claims to be atheist)
•   Told me we were monopolizing the kids birthdays, that I need to prioritize her
•   My youngest started to sniffle and cry during the video chat.  My mother goes "well now we're crying. How fun is that?" And did a big eye roll.
•   Getting kids to entertain her over video chat she has them each do a song. Then mom sings her song. It's all about her being where she lives and how much fun she's having in her state. And what they could be doing if they were there. Not so subtle manipulation to try to get the kids to want to go up.
•   Constantly said Oh just let me know and I can baby sit, except for every single time I asked her to babysit she wasn't available.
•   Complained about the guy who usually put in her dock but didn't one year, because he fell and broke his back!" I know [neighbor] is paralyzed, and that's okay, but his dad [somewhat sickly and mid 70's] should have stepped up and gotten the dock in.
•   Randomly brings up people to complain about. People I didn't know, have no bearing to the conversation, and from decades before.
•   When I told her I didn't want to hear the constant complaining about people (see above) she haughtily tells me "Well I talk about the whole truth, the good and the bad. But if you want I guess I'll just lie more."
•   Silent treatment after she gave me hurtful comments for a month. No hello, no goodbye, no I love you, nothing but logistical stuff.
•   More silent treatment, solid two weeks of nothing after I said we couldn't visit over the summer.
•   Proudly proclaimed she does not have a filter so we just have to deal with what she says, because that's who she is.
•   Tried to convince me to keep a rocker that had broken because it had sentimental value. So I asked if she wanted it back. She looked offended and said no.
•   Attempted to extract promise from us before moving close to us that we would never move away.
•   Told me "we just like to move" (as we prepared our third move in 20 years, first one out of town)
•   Tried to manipulate DD2 into wanting to go skating by telling her after she told her she's play a game with her that she could just play with mom then and walked out and convinced DD1 to talk her into it. (One of the first times I really saw how she withheld love to get what she wanted)
•   Spanked my child without my permission
•   Constantly pulls the 'but I'm a widow..." and asks others to do for her for free what she should probably be paying for
•   Invites herself to/on her neighbors events/boats/dinners
•   "I'm getting older and I need someone to check on me every day. I might break a hip." bull. The woman ice skates and does Zumba classes.
•   Told me my daughters classic name was 'too ethnic' (after I wouldn't name her after her mother)
•   When daughters were 4 and 1 she proclaimed one would be promiscuous and the other would be food driven so we'd have to watch her weight.
•   Pulls passive aggressive statements out to get her way and guilt trip.
o   Oh I haven't seen them in five months
o   I just don't know what to get them I haven't seen them in so long (6 weeks, the same six weeks she's not see them because previously SHE was the one away, not me)
o   I need to visit longer because it's a long flight (4hrs) and expensive ($300) but I should take my family and visit more.
•   Would ask about DD2 birthday but demand about DD1's birthday for visits. Gave up on DD2 like she was only asking because grandma's should ask, like she didn't really want to go.
•   In order to be entertained during their video sessions she had them start a band, a book club, a drawing thing and so on.
•   Texted in middle of the night that she hasn't seen the kids in 7 months. (Learned how to use the do not disturb setting on my phone)
•   When confronted with silent treatment it was because she was 'so hurt' but she was the one who had said hurtful things!
•   Called to 'communicate' how I felt about her mocking me.  first, she couldn't remember doing anything like that. Then decided she was being 'animated' Said that's the way she talks to everyone. While she did say she was sorry if she hurt my feelings. But she continued on saying that everything she seems to do I consider mocking or condescending and it hurts my feelings and I'm just too thin skinned.
•   When started skyping she had a face that read as I'm bored/can't be bothered kind of thing after about 5 minutes with the kids but laments at having under an hour to speak with them
•   Randomly calls skype an hour to half hour early on a regular basis. I don't answer but HUH?
•   Argues with me over simple boundaries until I have to go lawyer-ese for everything
•   Next year does not argue. Instead sees loophole and books for  more days but keeps the hours to a certain count.  Does not confirm with me before booking, though that has always been part of how we do it.
•   Tells stories of other 'kids' and what they do for their parents. Recently started adding why don't you do that [name] huh, why don't you do that? (Paying for phone plan, taking on vacation, begging them to come for Christmas
•   Telling me now she couldn't get a new car because I needed braces in a tone that made needing braces my fault like I could control it. (She didn't get a new car for at least 10 years after, so she never actually intended on replacing it any time soon.) Never considered how I felt getting braces.

edit: realized I might have had names in there.