Why do people lie to me? Is it me?

[Sneezy]

You know, when something keeps happening to you, you have to wonder if it's you, not the people around you.  At the risk of sounding like I'm throwing myself a great big pity party, I have to ask why people keep lying to me?  Is it me?  Is there something I'm doing to cause this?

As I mentioned in another post, Dramatic Auntie is in town.  She and BIL2 went to visit MIL in memory care.  Then they came to our house and were "so concerned" about the conditions in memory care.  They want on and on about how MIL smelled bad, and her room smelled like urine, and there was another resident crying for help the whole time they were there.  DH and I got concerned and rushed over there first thing this morning.  Everything is fine.  I sat on MIL's bed right next to her and she doesn't smell at all.  Her room doesn't smell.  There was a very nice bible study going on in the common area.  No one was crying for help.  It was exactly the opposite of what Dramatic Auntie and BIL2 had reported.

I also called my mom this morning.  For 30 minutes she cried about how lonely she is and how she has nothing to do.  She is just sitting all alone in her apartment.  My sister called her a little later and then called to tell me that mom had been to a concert in her senior complex after lunch and was currently at a friend's apartment having a very nice time.  So obviously Mom was lying when she told me she was all alone and had nothing to do and was just going to sit in her apartment all alone all day.

Why do I feel like I'm surrounded by people who are lying to me?  And what do I do about it?  Ignore them, confront them, question them?  I actually feel like I might be the problem, like I'm going insane and I just don't know it.   

[notrightinthehead]

What an interesting thought. My first impulse was, how could one make another person lie? Is that possible at all? But then I could imagine scenarios, when someone is particularly sensitive or easily enraged. Or when a person tends to be highly emphatic- maybe one could exaggerate ones suffering?
As to your auntie and her observation of non existent smells- I have often observed that people experience what they have determined they will. I would make a mental note about auntie- highly exaggerates.
And your mom? Do you give her something your sister doesn't? Are you her confidante in a way?

[Tribe16]

My first thought is you are having a perfectly normal reaction to being gaslit (is it me? Is there something wrong with me?) You are being played. Trust your gut on this one - the boy who keeps crying wolf is not to be believed. Auntie and BIL have blown their trust with you. I would "ok, uh-huh, thanks for letting me know" their comments in the future and consider the source. If you look back at the things they've told you, my guess is that it isn't as bad as they are leading you to believe. They want you to do something - what is it? Whether they want you to pick up slack that they don't want to deal with, or they're just manipulative and enjoy watching you jump, why are they doing this? Do they crave drama? What do they get out of it?  From past things you've posted, you know Mom is making stuff up too. Is she bored? Not getting enough narc supply?

I just got off the phone with my sister - we have totally switched golden child and scapegoat roles (we are ok, we see what is going on). She has to call me and ask, did Mom tell you this, because she just said XYZ. Fabrications. Totally made up or "rewritten badly". Mischaracterizing, revising history. It would almost be funny if it wasn't funny, YKWIM? I have to see my mom in a new light now, which is she's dishonest... or delusional. I will forever take everything she ever says to me with a grain of salt now.

I read a book coming home on the plane yesterday after leaving my parents. It's so good, I want to buy the world a copy. It's not a book about PDs or anything like that, but it left me feeling so much more lighthearted after I read it. Like, it will be so much easier for me to give myself permission to detach from the stupid s*it that my mother is doing/saying. The book is called "Let it Be Easy" by Susie Moore. I am all about being easy with myself these days - this book has all these mini essays on how to do that.

I don't think you are the problem, you just have some kooky people in your family like the rest of us on this board who don't have our best interests at heart. I think this keeps happening to us because we're nice, we're normal, we've been groomed to be caretakers and deed-doers and don't-arguers and setting boundaries feels unnatural, but setting boundaries and getting used to those boundaries improves our lives in leaps and bounds.

Why do I feel like I'm surrounded by people who are lying to me?  And what do I do about it?  Ignore them, confront them, question them?

What does your gut tell you to do? You've got this! 

[Fiasco]

Sneezy let's break it down and look at the facts. Start with your mom, who's got two issues: cognitive impairment and PD. We've talked in the past about how to identify when they're yanking our chains versus showing their decline and I never did figure that out but they come out the same in the end. They're either lies for attention (I still err on that side with my BPDm) or confabulations but either way they're not true. We already know what they say is extremely unlikely to be true so there's no reason to take it personally when they act according to type.

You've been calling Dramatic Auntie that name way before she came to you all spun up about urine and smells. Eyeroll. Did she do it to spin you up because that's fun for her? Was it because she's an adrenaline/drama junkie? Certainly could be. Can I assume BIL2 is DA's son? That indicates that he has his own issues,  none of which are caused by you. And again, these are people acting how you would expect them to act.

Yeah, it's easy for me to sometimes have a little pity party about WHY do all these awful people have to be in MY life. And yes there's something to be said for patterns, like how I used to always have unstable boyfriends who I had to caretake when I was young. That was me, I picked them because I was recreating the only pattern I knew from what passed for my childhood. But you don't get to pick your relatives and therefor their issues are no reflection on you. You're doing great. You can whine with me any time.

[Sneezy]

You're doing great. You can whine with me any time.

Whine or wine?     Just kidding, I'm actually finding herbal tea is more my jam these days.  At least I sleep better when I have a cup of tea before bedtime.

Dramatic Auntie is very upset because she wanted FIL to end up living near her, rather than living near his children.  FIL wisely chose to move near his kids, rather than his sister, and she is going to make us all pay for that diss.  As Tribe16 says I need to give her the "uh-huh, thanks for letting me know" line.  BIL2 is my DH's brother, so he is Dramatic Auntie's nephew.  He wanted both parents living closer to him, but they ended up closer to us (15 minutes away from us, versus about 30 minutes away from him).  It was nothing DH and I pushed - we were perfectly happy to have the in-laws closer to BIL2.  But with any senior living, it depends where there are openings and what the prices are, etc. and FIL chose a facility closer to us.  So BIL2's feeling are a little hurt and he does love a little drama, too, so he is being difficult.  He needs to grow up and get over it!

Finally, my mom. Yep, it's all about attention, with some cognitive decline thrown in.  I just have to laugh or I'd cry.  Mom has been seeing the widower downstairs for a few months and yesterday his family came over to visit him and she wasn't invited to do whatever it was they were doing.  Oh my, the tears!  She was soooooooo upset and she actually said "I feel like our relationship is in the closet."  Which is absolutely not the correct term to use but it did give me a good laugh.  I mean, the drama over not being invited to have takeout food with her friend and his kids.  Ridiculous!

I am back to my happy place today.  As Tribe16 also mentioned, there are dysfunctional people in every family.  It can get tough when several of them are erupting at the same time, but this too shall pass.  And notrightinthehead is correct in noting that some people are very sensitive.  That would be me - I do tend to take things too personally, but I'm working on it.

[lkdrymom]

Do you tend to swoop in and try to solve everyone's problems?  Next time someone complains ask them what THEY plan on doing about it.

[Sneezy]

Do you tend to swoop in and try to solve everyone's problems? 

Guilty as charged 

Yeah, I know, I need to work on my co-dependency.

[1footouttadefog]

My guess is that it's attention seeking behavior.  Like a jack in the box, you give a desired response.


With the nursing home I will add that I did alot if nursing home ministry when I was young.  I also have had relatives and such I visited regularly.  The conditions at a nursing home can vary dramatically from one time to another.  I saw this pattern and times my visits around it. 

After lunch and dinner everyone eliminates a little while later.  The places can go from pleasant to unpleasant very quickly.  It seems to take about 90 120 minutes for the staff to process this and get everyone cleaned back up. 

They also do bed changes and give baths so this takes a while.  Some folks will continuously cry out when soiled as a baby would. 

Despite this, your Aunt and BIL may have exaggerated to get a reaction from you.

As to you mom, perhaps this is a feelings as facts situation.  Many pds create facts to match how they feel.  People omwith ods often feel lonely when they are about to have social interactions because of the deep felt feelings if negativity and shame, guilt or inadequacy.  That they are going to a party or event reminds them that the rest of the time they have no real friend or that the relationships are based on a fake self.

[Happypants]

Sneezy, I know it can feel like there's something in you to cause such behaviour, and its easy to cast a negative light on it. But that something is your empathy, which is a superpower when you're surrounded by nons, and a curse when surrounded by toxic family dynamics. The point of it all is to keep you in that reliable role, and the exaggerating and lying ensures that the grooves get deeper, keeping you fully entrenched. A reaction from you is a comfort to them that you're where they need you to be. I completely sympathise with you as my father pulled the waif moves when my mother came out of hospital- distressed voicemails, then on top of the world party mood when I called back concerned. Keep focusing on staying aware during these interactions x

[Sneezy]

With the nursing home I will add that I did alot if nursing home ministry when I was young.  I also have had relatives and such I visited regularly.  The conditions at a nursing home can vary dramatically from one time to another.  I saw this pattern and times my visits around it. 

After lunch and dinner everyone eliminates a little while later.  The places can go from pleasant to unpleasant very quickly.  It seems to take about 90 120 minutes for the staff to process this and get everyone cleaned back up. 

They also do bed changes and give baths so this takes a while.  Some folks will continuously cry out when soiled as a baby would. 

Thank you, this is good information to have.  DH and I tend to visit in the late mornings, as MIL seems to be better earlier in the day.  We should probably switch up our visiting days/times a little and see how things are.

The point of it all is to keep you in that reliable role, and the exaggerating and lying ensures that the grooves get deeper, keeping you fully entrenched. A reaction from you is a comfort to them that you're where they need you to be. I completely sympathise with you as my father pulled the waif moves when my mother came out of hospital- distressed voicemails, then on top of the world party mood when I called back concerned. Keep focusing on staying aware during these interactions x

Yeah, I was raised to be the dutiful child.  As I'm getting older, I'm getting tired of it.  And the only person who can change that is me.  I need to learn how not to ask "how high" every time my mom says "jump."  And when I don't do everything she wants me to do, the minute she wants me to do it, I need to be ok with her reaction and not beat myself up over it.  It's ok if she's mad at me, especially if she is mad because I'm maintaining my boundaries in the face of her unreasonableness.  Mom has been very curt and cool with me lately because I hurt my shoulder (and need to go to PT) and this means I can't take her shopping and lug cases of water and soda up to her apartment.  She has no concern about my how I'm feeling, it's all about how it inconveniences her.  I've even offered to order groceries, pay the $5 delivery fee for her, and have them delivered to her, and she's still ticked off at me.  This is obviously all about her (as usual).

[Cat of the Canals]

It's ok if she's mad at me, especially if she is mad because I'm maintaining my boundaries in the face of her unreasonableness. 

I'm going to tattoo this on my forehead. 

[1footouttadefog]

I believe lying is wrong. I am at times week or lazy or cowardly or whatever and lie as a path of least resistance.

I feel bad when I like because it's part of my character and morality system to believe it's wrong.  If I like it's about me and who I am. 

I don't find myself intentionally lying to certain people because of who they are.  I am who I am regardless of who they are, with the exception of a pd or other person who might be putting my in a flight/fright mode wherein lying is the path of least resistance, ie it's seems safer than confronting the person with truth. 

If you are being lied to alot it likely indicates you are hanging out with liers.  But to be sure of things you might reflect personally if you are creating a circumstance where others feel the need to safely disengage with a lie.

If not, then you might over time change who you are hanging out until you are surrounded with people who have a closer character and morality to your own.  In the mean time adjust or delete relationships that are not a match and do t work for you.

[Sneezy]

If you are being lied to alot it likely indicates you are hanging out with liers.  But to be sure of things you might reflect personally if you are creating a circumstance where others feel the need to safely disengage with a lie.

If not, then you might over time change who you are hanging out until you are surrounded with people who have a closer character and morality to your own.  In the mean time adjust or delete relationships that are not a match and do t work for you.

An interesting thought - am I creating a circumstance where others feel the need to lie?  I think the answer is yes (sort of).  In the case of Dramatic Auntie and BIL2, they are currently unhappy with the situation.  They don't like uHMIL being in memory care, especially as she is located close to us.  Rather than coming right out and saying "hey, we're sad and we aren't sure that mom should be in memory care and in any case we'd like her to be closer to us," it is easier to put down the place where she is and make it out to be our fault.  If they would be honest about their feelings, it would also involve work on their side.  For example, if BIL2 doesn't believe his mom needs to be in memory care, he needs to make some appointments with specialists and pursue this. DH and I are 100% convinced that she is exactly where she needs to be and that it is a wonderful facility.  BIL2 has medical power of attorney.  He can change things if he wants to.  But it is easier for him to criticize and exaggerate and lie than to actually do any work to change things.

In the case of my covert NPD mom, the stronger my boundaries become, the more she throws at me.  It would be funny if it didn't irritate me so much.  One minute she brags about a friend who she ordered groceries with (see, I have friends who love me more than my daughter and they want to make sure I have what I need) and the next minute no one she knows orders groceries and her computer is broken so she can't order them anyway (see, I am so alone and neglected and no one cares if I starve).  It is mind-boggling.

I am limiting time spent with BIL2 and Dramatic Auntie.  It is tougher to limit time with my mom, but I have cut back on telephone calls and when I see her I limit the time we spend together to just two or three hours.  Any longer and it gets tough to maintain my medium chill and boundaries.

[moglow]

Sneezy, for what it's worth I don't think it's just you. It may be that over time certain people's circles have shrunk [possibly due to their treatment of others?] and they're possibly seeing you as more of a target. Plus you have this ...

In the case of Dramatic Auntie and BIL2, they are currently unhappy with the situation.  They don't like uHMIL being in memory care, especially as she is located close to us.  Rather than coming right out and saying "hey, we're sad and we aren't sure that mom should be in memory care and in any case we'd like her to be closer to us," it is easier to put down the place where she is and make it out to be our fault.  If they would be honest about their feelings, it would also involve work on their side.  For example, if BIL2 doesn't believe his mom needs to be in memory care, he needs to make some appointments with specialists and pursue this. DH and I are 100% convinced that she is exactly where she needs to be and that it is a wonderful facility.  BIL2 has medical power of attorney.  He can change things if he wants to.  But it is easier for him to criticize and exaggerate and lie than to actually do any work to change things.

I tend to believe this is more the case - they're upset with the situation and see you as a obvious recipient of their disappointments rather than addressing the actual problem.