Hypocrisy and projection

[11JB68]

...and controlling...
Where to begin?
First, one pd ocpd 'rule' is that I can't go to bed before Updh. He doesn't sleep well. So stays up later and later and then i'have to' stay up too. I'm exhausted.
Also by his choice our evenings are spent in front of the TV, from about 6 till about 11 or midnight. Updh often falls asleep at some point, usually quite early, then wakes up. Around 10 I start to fall asleep (having been up since 5 this seems like a reasonable time to be tired).
Recently a new ocpd 'rule' was made which is that I'm not supposed to sleep on the couch while watching TV because I'm "cranky" when I wake up (i.e. when he wakes me up).
Double bind... If I could just go to bed...
So I've been really struggling to stay awake, when I do drift off he gives me a hard time about it.
Another ocpd rule is that if he falls asleep watching a Netflix show I must wake him up when it's over because it upsets him if the next episode starts and he misses it. 
So this evening we're watching Netflix, he falls asleep, I try to wake him up to no avail. Show ends and I pretty loudly tell him to wake up shows over! His cranky sleepy response is a loud so what?? I repeat myself, shows over next one is starting. He says yeah so aren't we gonna watch it?? I say I thought you wanted to watch the game? Finally he wakes up.
So, on so many levels, this illustrates his pattern of the 'rules' (HIS rules) apply to everyone but him!

[Andeza]

Yes, hypocrisy and projection seem to span much of the pd spectrum. We, the non, must abide by all the rules.

Welp if your h wanted a robot, maybe he ought to have married one.

11 I forget whether you've got kids or not, but I know for me if I were getting up at five with ds, my butt would be in bed by ten, at the latest. I'd be passing out where I sat otherwise.

Can you say screw the rules and go to bed anyway? What would happen?

[notrightinthehead]

11B I feel so sorry for you with all these crazy rules that you submit to. He seems quite creative with what displeases him.

[SparkStillLit]

Nobody effs with my sleep unless they want to face the dragon. I'd say SCREW IT and go to bed. Let him have a cow, and if he has too big of a cow, enforce your own damn rules and call the police/leave the house/leave the room/what have you.
At some point we have to draw lines at the crazy or they're literally going to kill us with ill health or ramifications of no sleep or something else.

[NumbLotus]

Sleep is a BASIC NECESSITY OF LIFE and needs to be seen just as seriously as if he were denying you FOOD.

Believe me, I have compromised on lots of stuff so I know how it is. But SLEEP is A HILL TO DIE ON for me.

I would go to bed when *I* wanted.
If needed, I would set up a sleeping spot elsewhere, such as moving into the guest room.
I'd put a LOCK on the guest room door if he pulled crap waking me up.
If he banged on the door I'd go to a HOTEL. Doesn't matter if it took more bother or if I didn't exactly have bundles of money for it, I'd make the point loud and clear that I WILL LEAVE if I don't get my sleep.

I will NOT let a PD in the way of food, water, shelter, or sleep.

[Poison Ivy]

11JB68, you are being abused.  In 2020, I hope for you that you are able to escape this abuse.

[StayWithMe]

Yes, hypocrisy and projection seem to span much of the pd spectrum. We, the non, must abide by all the rules.

Welp if your h wanted a robot, maybe he ought to have married one.

11 I forget whether you've got kids or not, but I know for me if I were getting up at five with ds, my butt would be in bed by ten, at the latest. I'd be passing out where I sat otherwise.

Can you say screw the rules and go to bed anyway? What would happen?

<<sigh>> ..... and they do it so naturally.....

[11JB68]

Yeah and then this morning, Sunday, he wakes me up at 7. Why

[11JB68]

Andeza ds is 22.
The sleep thing is more recent. Want an issue when ds was younger. The 'rules' change over time... They are entirely arbitrary.

[11JB68]

Thx all for your support.
I struggle with the term abuse.
And yes I could respond differently...ime if I argue or fight, it just makes everything miserable... Lots of circular arguments, increased rage and emotional/verbal abuse, etc.
I feel like if I committed to that, basically if be committing to working my way out via divorce.
Divorce scares me. I've read on here about people spending YEARS (12+??) and tens of thousands of dollars on divorce!! Also I make more and may have to pay him support, etc.

[Jsinjin]

I hate "rules" !    I so completely detest the long list of ways and complex systems that are used to ensure nothing gets done or that nothing is ever easy.    Laundry has a complex set of rules that make it impossible to quicky fold and put stuff away.   Dishwasher has some really arbitrary ones about direction and locations of various dishes and a deep need for it to be 100 percent full before running.   

I feel for you on the sleep issue.    My uOCPDw likes to read and comment on political blogs late at night sometimes until past midnight for us.    Asking her to stop results in an anger and indignation associated with the importance of what she is doing and corrrecting someone who is clearly wrong in their thoughts and beliefs.

I don't have issues with her telling me when to go to sleep or how to stay awake though.    That would cross the line even further than the current one for me and I would have to make changes more than I already need to.

Thoughts and prayers to you.

[Poison Ivy]

I too struggle with the term "abuse." In this situation, your husband is asking you to deprive yourself of a basic human need and you feel unable to say no to him.  To me, his behavior thus qualifies as abuse. 

See this for more information about power and control and their relationship to abuse and domestic violence:  http://www.ncdsv.org/images/PowerControlwheelNOSHADING.pdf

I just found this blog.  There is some great information here:  https://speakoutloud.net/intimate-partner-abuse/new-power-and-control-wheel

[SparkStillLit]

What if you didn't SAY anything, though? I absolutely don't advocate talking at all. What if you just DID STUFF, like went to bed when you needed to, and silently held that boundary, and silently reinforce it by leaving the space if he has tantrums and whatnot? How about that?

[Poison Ivy]

 

[SparkStillLit]

Or, if I'm being unreasonable and you HAVE to talk, saying broken record statements "it's time for me to go to bed" over and over and OVER and if it gets nutty "I can't have conversation when I'm upset" *even if you aren't the one who's upset* and just repeat ad nauseam.
Learned these in therapy. They worked. Behavior gets worse before it gets better, they pull out all the stops trying to make you go back to how you were before, but then, thank everything you hold dear, PEACE. At least from that.

[11JB68]

Ivy and spark, thx. I've seen the wheel. I've of the first concepts I read about when I started to come Out of the FOG was coercive control and it definitely gotta my situation.
Jsinjin, I see many similarities between my h and your w.

[SparkStillLit]

I've never read about coercive control. Should I? Is there a recommendation? ARE THERE TOOLS?????

[Poison Ivy]

SparkStillLit, please see this webpage:  https://speakoutloud.net/articles

[SparkStillLit]

Stars. This makes me wonder if I'm in more danger than I realize.

[Free2Bme]

11JB68,
I would say 'unbelievable' to your quandary, but I have experienced it also.  It is a double bind. 

Maslow describe the Hierarchy of needs https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-maslows-hierarchy-of-needs-4136760.  The most fundamental are things like sleep.  IME with my updxh, he started at the top of Maslow's pyramid and worked his way down eventually trying to strip me of the most basic human needs. 

I too was uncomfortable with the word 'abuse', mostly because of some people's misappropriation.  However, when I stopped to think of how I would teach my children about abuse, I had to admit that I (we) were being abused.  So, maybe if you could imagine a close friend/loved one coming to you describing a similar situation.  What would you tell them?  (this helped me with perspective).


My updxh had different rules.  I was required to go to be at the same time as him.  If I stayed up for some much needed decompression/quite time, it was a problem.  The first thing in the morning he would ask me "sooooo... what time did you come to bed last night?"  So I would threaten to put a time-card machine next to our bed so I could punch in/out to give accountability for my sleep/wake hours.


Post-partum, he would call during the day to make sure I was not taking a nap with the babies (had a 1 yo and a newborn).  His position was that if he had to be at work, I could not take a nap when exhausted/sick.     Later on, when we had 4 under six years old, he'd call home EVERY DAY  from work to ask me what time I woke up in the morning, with little ones I was always up early!

Sleep is a human need, depriving one of sleep for arbitrary/selfish reasons is unacceptable.  I understand your predicament and that nothing is simple with PD's, but I agree with Spark, go to bed when you need to.  He will likely give you grief, but I would be prepared to put it back on him.  "So... you mean you don't want me to get rest so I can hold your hand while you watch Netflix...huh?"

It seems like you will have to choose between what you have now and what it would be if you take initiative to get your own basic needs met.

You have value.  Your needs/wants should matter. 

Sorry you are dealing with this .