Altruistic Covert Narcissist

[M0009803]

Does this even make sense?

That's essentially what I have come up with after analysing my uPDM's behavior over my lifetime (and after lots of reading! in regards to the psychology of PDs)

To summarise:

She has a public and private face.  While most people operate like this to some extent, the difference in her case is very significant.  Treats her friends and peers very well, but she is incredibly emotionally abusive to her own direct family in private.

She also complains to her friends and extended family how difficult we are, so that she projects the impression that she sacrifices a lot for her children.  This an important aspect of her psychology from what I could discern.  The need for others to see her as a martyr who always makes  sacrifices for her kids is important for her.

That covers the narcissistic and covert part.

For the altruistic part(is this even altruism?):

She is financially very well-off, and she is a big gift giver.  For a long time I thought this was a good thing, but when I examined how she sometimes used these "gifts" to extract the behaviors she desired from us (when we don't do what she expected is to do), the pattern emerges.   It was difficult for me to see this because it makes you feel guilty (ultimately that is what she wants, to bind you to her with guilt and obligation), and it becomes very hard to see your mother as an emotionally manipulative person.

My impression is that she likes to give gifts (sometimes even without any agenda), but in her case it is also about indebting you to her, as well as possibly controlling your actions via his mechanism.   A normal person would give a gift to a person out of a desire to make the other person happy, but in this case, I don't think this describes my mothers actions.

Has anybody else had a parent like this?

[Psuedonym]

Hi M0009803,

Yep, yep, yep. It's funny, I almost wrote a post this morning called 'Super Covert PD'. I think of my uBPDm as having practiced Emotional Munchausen by Proxy. She is full of self-loathing and extremely pessimistic, which of course she dumped all over me growing up. I'm an only child, which didn't help. So surprise, I was a depressed, self-loathing kid. I also heard things from her like 'if at first you don't succeed, give up' and life is something 'you just have to try to struggle through'. To cheer me up from all this misery and woe, she would buy me nice things (hence the Munchausen part, as in: you're so miserable (I have no idea why!) look at all the wonderful things I do to cheer you up. I am 'the best mother in the world!'

Of course these things, in her mind, can never ever be paid back. It's like getting a loan from Tony Soprano. I have been NC with her for about two months; when its necessary to deal with her my brave BF does it. Every time he sees her she goes on a rant about all the wonderful things she's done for me and how I am the crazy, lying one.

I think every type of PD does their own type of damage, but I would say the really covert ones' super power is gaslighting. I often think (although I know the experience would be different) that it would be easier to grow up with someone who was physically abusive, because at least it's obvious. The gaslighting and the generosity with infinite debt and guilt trips attached are just as damaging but much more subtle.

It makes perfect sense to me and, unfortunately, to a lot of us here.

[Groundhog Day]

Yepper!  Rings a bell.

My BPDm gave her wedding rings to my daughter 2 years ago. She is now leaving messages to my daughter who is NC with, she wants her rings back! The reason? She gained weight now and they would fit again and also in June, it will be her 60th wedding anniversary and she would like to wear them. (My F passed away 3 yrs ago). I told my daughter you are not to give them back, she will give them to a neighbourg in order to befriend them. That is the only thing we have left from my parents and she desinherited myself and my siblings.

My F gave a delco to my brother 7 years ago. M wants it back because my B will not break up with girlfriend so to get back at him, she called the cops on him. Nothing came out of it but still when your M involve police in her revenge!

She loves people who will be indebted to her as well.

[Danden]

"I often think (although I know the experience would be different) that it would be easier to grow up with someone who was physically abusive, because at least it's obvious."

I have had this thought too.  Physical abuse is obvious.  It is also recognized as being against the law.  I also think it is harder to stay in a relationship where you are being physically abused and to not recognize it as something that hurts you.  And when one becomes an adult, the physical abuse will probably stop.  Whereas the emotional harm is not against the law, no-one recognizes it as being anything at all  (people even blame you for it), and it is easy to tell oneself "it's not that bad, it's my fault," etc.  It takes a lot for the victim to see it for what it is.  As for other people, it is highly probable they will never see it at all.

[RavenLady]

Yes, also, emotional abuse can cripple a person just as surely as physical abuse can. I consider myself an example of this. I believe my family's emotional and psychological abuse was a primary cause of an illness that cost me 5 YEARS of my life. 5 years of disabling pain. And a few years of less-than-disabling pain on top of that.

Also, emotional abuse is a direct hit to the essence of us. When a parent tells a child they are no good and they should shut up and disappear, the child is often unable to even contemplate any other course of action. We become frozen, silenced, immobilized, somewhere deep inside, hidden from the world. It changes who we are and how we relate to others. It isolates us. It impairs our ability to heal from that very wound. It's like a double-whammy. A broken arm doesn't impair its own ability to heal. Emotional abuse plants parasites in our heads that undermine us the rest of our lives, until we find our way into healing, somehow, maybe against the odds.

I want to add, though, that 1) most physical abuse is typically accompanied by emotional abuse, in my understanding. 2) I don't think it makes much sense to minimize ANYONE's pain, emotional or physical, that results from abuse -- there is no meaningful metric for such things and also it serve's nobody's healing. (Not that minimizing is what's going on here.) 3) I was just talking with someone IRL this week who was minimizing their own physical abuse, saying things like, "Mom didn't usually leave marks." I think this happens a lot because even with physical abuse, it's not something we want to believe our parents really did to us, even when we know all the facts there are to know. And, 4) Maybe it's true that physical abuse usually stops once the child matures, but certainly not always. (Especially combined with emotional abuse. Tiny frail parents still can wield outsized power in the minds of their hale, hearty young children.)

[Psuedonym]

Very true, RavenLady. Just wanted to point out in case anyone did misinterpret it that physical abuse is horrendous and usually comes alongside emotional and psychological abuse. It's my irrational belief that it would have been easier to process because it would have been more provable to myself and more clear cut, but I know that's not based in reality and am in no way trying to minimize anyone's experience.

Speaking of, M called my BF today and left a message asking if I was coming over to visit. Er, last few times he spoke with her she accused me of being crazy, abnormal, oversensitive, a liar, and having perpetrated all the big bad behaviors that were in fact, her own. Sooooo....nooo? I swear she's like the guy in Memento whose memory resets every 5 minutes. Yeesh.

[Danden]

RavenLady,  you are certainly right .  I certainly didn't want to minimize physical abuse vs. emotional abuse.  I was just thinking that the two are different.  While a physical injury is seen and known more easily, it is probably more terrifying to be afraid of being hurt, most especially for a child.  With emotional abuse, one can simply withdraw and stay out of sight or go to someone else's house.  When you sleep you are safe, whereas with physical or sexual abuse you are not.  It is interesting what your friend said IRL, that just illustrates how powerful denial is.  I have read that for victims of sexual abuse, they often say that the emotional abuse, loss of trust in adults, was the hardest part of it.  I am perhaps having wishful thinking that there is a type of abuse that is "easier" somehow, when really there is not.  It is all bad and all very difficult to overcome.

[BettyGray]

OMG, YES!!
I find these super covert moms to be the most vile, including my mother. Until I moved far away from her and the rest of my brainwashed family, I thought she was a good mom. I bought into the victim/martyr thing she so expertly embraced after my father cheated on her. More than once. She was a “saint” who took him back. She “sacrificed “ so much to help us go to college, get braces, what have you. The guilt was enormous, engulfing. The gaslighting so calculated, the envy not so well disguised.

To the outside: perfect family. She was always perfectly made-up and dressed. My achievements were her bragging rights. In private: pitted 4 children against her so we had no real trust for each other, just her. All the “relationships” happened through HER.

One difference between my mom and yours - she was cheap. Sure, she would go buy expensive jewelry for herself, but my gifts were cheap, sometimes thoughtless and often passive-aggressive. And of course we had to make a big deal out of gift-giving to her.

So I saw through this sham the longer I was away from her. Until I finally couldn’t handle the hypocrisy and BS anymore and cut the cord. I also began to see more clearly the same type of behavior in other people. I work with mainly mothers and daughters in a wedding-related business and have been absolutely disgusted watching multitudes of mothers gaslight their daughters right in front of me. I know exactly what they are doing, but sadly the daughters do not. It is downright painful to watch, but I know how to handle these malicious women now, which gives me a modicum of satisfaction. But I know these poor girls are in for a lifetime of hell once they leave. Their marriages will be marred by petty motherly jealousy. What is worse, they often get it from both sides, mother-in-laws to be. It is crazy-making. 

One favorite of the woe-is-me Nmom is the constant complaining about the daughters when they’re not around. Like when they think I am buying their story, feeling sorry for them because of these awful children, for whom they bear no responsibility in raising.

I feel especially sorry for the meeker, people-pleasing types. They are built up, then torn down. And then, the mothers feign niceness or generosity (almost like taking them out for ice cream after embarrassing and controlling them). The moms answer questions for their daughters, treat them like children, incapable of making their own choices, then berate the choices they do make. Or even worse, agreeing with that choice and then sowing doubt within minutes. A person could get whiplash trying to make sense of this harshly manipulated behavior. No wonder we are all so screwed up. They know EXACTLY  what they are doing. And they do it alarmingly well.

But it’s hilarious when the mothers figure out I’ve got their number- the jig is up - and their tactics will not work with me. The moms become like children... or puppies.... desperately wanting my approval. How could someone NOT agree with them? They think they can treat everyone the way they treat their kids, and it works on most people. They don’t expect you to stand up to them. It is almost entertaining, if it weren’t so damaging to their children.

[blues_cruise]

My impression is that she likes to give gifts (sometimes even without any agenda), but in her case it is also about indebting you to her, as well as possibly controlling your actions via his mechanism.   A normal person would give a gift to a person out of a desire to make the other person happy, but in this case, I don't think this describes my mothers actions.

I relate to your post so much. NF has always been cruel and ignoring on the whole, but has interspersed it with expensive gifts. For a long time it left me feeling like I was ungrateful for distancing myself from him because he had been so 'generous' on and off. So many strings attached to it all though. Plus he also added in a few blatantly cheap, tacky gifts just to keep me in my place if I dared displease him.

Ultimately I would always have taken genuine kindness and care over money any day.  He assumes that others are driven by power, money and status the way that he is, so I think it was like a manipulative reward system to keep me dutiful.

[daughter]

My NBM and enNF are quite concerned about their "public image" displayed to friends and acquaintances.  They can be quite generous to those friends and acquaintances, but it's to fulfill that image-portrayal, and not sincere generosity.  They actively solicit their friends' compliments and regards, often shared those accolades with me, in a sort of "see, we're great people, everyone likes us, even if we're not nice to you" manner.  And at same time, my parents could be simultaneously incredibly mean and cheap to other people, even their immediate relatives, those folks they felt were inferior to their own self-defined exalted social status.  Pure prejudice and malice displayed.  It was/is weird, their split-personality regarding how they interact with folks.  My parents are definition of altruistic covert narcissism, in regards to their esteemed friends and acquaintances, with their dark-side, their pathological sociopathic tendencies well-hidden from public view.

They've always been quite parsimonious and weirdly withholding towards me, for no good reason, given that I was a consistently obedient and compliant dutiful daughter (albeit the designated SG) who was a high-achiever good girl.  My parents would even bill me, demand immediate cash-payment from me, for every small item purchased (or procured for free by them) for me, as if I was a client rather than their child, whether a case of bottled water, or a can of paint, or an ice cream cone.  (Not so for GC "pampered princess" nsis, my only sibling, my NBM's blatantly-favored mini-me.)  My parents would also often chastise me with "after EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE FOR YOU", if I dared to ever so slightly deviate from their expectations and demands, to which I finally began to respond with "sorry, wrong daughter, you mean nsis, not ME".

Before my NC decision, enNF had already accidentally disclosed my parents' plans to partially disinherit me.  Post-NC, legal documents were issued to me, to confirm my full disinheritance.  Likewise, NBM has told my DS that I'm disinherited, and my quite wealthy parents apparently have also now disinherited my children, to leave their entire estate to nsis and her family.  Oh well, to be free of these folks, the price must be paid.