Other individuals with Mutual connection to the estranged parents

[Zia]

Hi, just want to know other people's insights.

My dad just celebrated his birthday recently, and one common friend of mine greeted him a simple "Happy Birthday" as a comment on his facebook post.

This common friend knows some of the situation with the family, and he's made aware that I'm no-contact with my parents. He also knows I had sent a cease and desist letter through lawyer to stop their harrassment.

As a typical grandiose narcissist that my dad is, he went overboard with his reply to this particular friend. He posted his overly-dramatic-thank-you and mentioned he misses the Christian group (hypocrite!) which my friend and I belong to (which my parents do not really show interest to participate in even when we invited them). You know the drill, all the agreeable, likeable overboard dramatic comment to gain sympathy and make him look like a well put together persona and the victim. Honestly, it looks like a 1 paragraph "thank you note".

there are times when I feel this friend sympathizes with my parents (he's from the same generation as them). It's like having the feeling of, do I trust this friend or not, do I distance as well. Do I start being cautious relating with them as well, maybe. He also have said to me to do what is best for you and your family. It is also weird to me how he asked if I have reconciled with my parents. He's giving me mixed signals basically. Although I feel that his wife is more understanding of my situation.

I talked about this to my spouse. And he said that I cannot just drop off every relationships. Which in a way he has a point. I responded that yes, that is right but I also feel like I should be cautious.

Has anyone have mutual connections with the NPs and how do you maintain these other relationships and connections with other individuals while the estrangement is ongoing?

[Cat of the Canals]

I'm tempted to point out that there's very little thought in wishing someone happy birthday on Facebook. It's a meaningless pleasantry, in my mind. But the fact that he's asked if you reconciled... eh. That's potentially edging into Flying Monkey territory. At the very least, I'd say this is someone who Doesn't Get It. And without firsthand PD experience (must be nice!), I think people like this tend to never really get it.

And he said that I cannot just drop off every relationships. Which in a way he has a point. I responded that yes, that is right but I also feel like I should be cautious.

Exactly this. Being cautious and establishing new boundaries doesn't mean you're ending the relationship. If you no longer feel comfortable discussing your family (or other things) with this person, then don't. If he brings it up, tell him you'd rather talk of other things. Nothing about that is unreasonable.

[Zia]

I'm tempted to point out that there's very little thought in wishing someone happy birthday on Facebook. It's a meaningless pleasantry, in my mind. But the fact that he's asked if you reconciled... eh. That's potentially edging into Flying Monkey territory. At the very least, I'd say this is someone who Doesn't Get It. And without firsthand PD experience (must be nice!), I think people like this tend to never really get it.

I get the same feeling that he doesn't understand the situation when he asked about "reconcile". I hope and pray he does not turn into an FM because we (husband and I) value the connection with him and his family. I wonder if talking to him furthermore about the legal help that I sought recently and the cease and desist letter would give him a better understanding that this is not just a simple family-not-getting-along-with-each-other issue?

Exactly this. Being cautious and establishing new boundaries doesn't mean you're ending the relationship. If you no longer feel comfortable discussing your family (or other things) with this person, then don't. If he brings it up, tell him you'd rather talk of other things. Nothing about that is unreasonable.

Thanks for your words. I feel a little bit lifted up. I'm anxious about him turning into a FM. At the same time awful about the thought of ending my connection with him because other friendships will also be affected.

[moglow]

Sometimes we have to just agree to disagree, and that includes not having certain discussions. He may have whatever opinion he has and see things however he sees them, that doesn't mean you have to have discussions about it. With most people a polite but firmly stated: "I appreciate your concern but it's a complicated situation. It feels like talking behind their backs and I wouldn't want to do that. I'm sure you understand." Then you move on to other subjects - I would imagine this friend would understand and respect your position.

I wonder if talking to him furthermore about the legal help that I sought recently and the cease and desist letter would give him a better understanding that this is not just a simple family-not-getting-along-with-each-other issue?

To me that's need to know information and not many fall into that category. He already knows about the cease and desist, and it really doesn't require more discussion unless you were seeking his help.

[Leonor]

Well, you can give up every relationship.

I did.

I didn't intend to.

When I started healing, I was actually excited to share the good news. Yeah, that bad thing happened but look! We can talk about it and it will be ok. We can heal through this. We can think different things and have different experiences and still be a real family. Or have a real friendship. Or even a pleasant acquaintance.

That didn't exactly happen. And after a while, I got so tired of the shrugging off and parrying back and side stepping this or that.

I thought, wait. I'm not arguing their experiences. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion. I'm not even insisting that my truth be "a" truth for them.

All of this static is from them trying to change me. Well, she is your mother. Well, there are documented cases of false memories. Well, that was a long time ago. Well, there was no Oprah back then (honestly, someone said that to me.) Well, I'll invite you to the family Christmas. Well, I did talk to them and they said ...

And after a while I was just like, no #$@& thanks. This is my story. This is my truth. And if you want to be in contact with me, you have to respect that. You don't get to roll up and make digs or sad sighs or pat my hand or roll your eyes. You don't get to "point things out" to me. You don't get my stamp of approval on your relationship with a person who hurt me.

And then I looked a little farther out. How many friends did I have who were nice, and did believe me, but were just not enriching? The friends who were openly transactional, who were always in self-created crisis, who I was always counselling? I started to breathe a little freer from them, too.

And now my circle is very small. I have kids, so my social life is pretty much hanging out with the parents of my kids' friends and teammates at the after school play or weekend game or whatever. That's ok. I'm too tired to do anything else! They are nice parents. We don't have to be all up in each other's family dramas.

Now, I'm not recommending this. Many people would be terribly lonely (including some of the more sociable parents of my children's friends.) And there's no moral high ground in choosing or not to relate or not to people that you want to include or not in your life. It's very healing to be able to be in relationship with someone and hold that space for different experiences or opinions.

It's just that it's okay to recognize that someone makes you feel uncomfortable for whatever the reason, and draw the boundaries that you want to protect yourself. That's something we didn't have when we were little ("Go give Great Aunty Maude a kiss! Don't you ever lock your door! It's just the neighbor, don't be silly!")

We have that now, and you don't have to be afraid.

[Cat of the Canals]

And after a while I was just like, no #$@& thanks. This is my story. This is my truth. And if you want to be in contact with me, you have to respect that. You don't get to roll up and make digs or sad sighs or pat my hand or roll your eyes. You don't get to "point things out" to me. You don't get my stamp of approval on your relationship with a person who hurt me.

I think another thing to note is that Zia's husband is using false logic here. If she chose to cut off THIS person (or ANY person) who questioned or otherwise didn't respect her choice to be NC, she is not cutting off "every" relationship. Just the ones who don't respect particular boundaries.

Likewise, I think those of us raised in disordered families often tend to draw other disordered people into our orbit in friendships, romantic relationships, etc. So I also suspect it isn't rare to have an awakening like Leonor's, where you come Out of the FOG and realize it isn't just your family... that you are surrounded by people who aren't really interested in a reciprocal, 50/50 relationship.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

I've definitely been accused of being quick on the trigger since going NC. It's true. It doesn't make me wrong. I've changed in ways my DH hasn't quite.

My tolerance for being disrespected is way, way, less than it used to be. That's going to have broad consequences in how I manage my relationships across the board. It may look like a forest fire, but those are necessary for healthy new growth sometimes.

[My New Life]

I live in the same town, as my NPmom, with whom I have been NC for 5 years.  We have a lot of mutual connections.  For the most part, I do not discuss my decision to go NC with most people.  Every once in a while, they'll ask, "How's your mom?"  I smile and say, "I'm not sure."  And that's usually enough for them to back off without further questioning.

However, I have a close friend, with whom I shared the painful decision to go NC, because I trusted her.  A few months ago, she said, "I just pray for reconciliation for you and your mom, and that's that."

I felt like she had slapped me, and I have avoided her since.  I love her and know she means well, however, her comment did not land well.  To me, it implied I had had a mere disagreement with my mom and cast her aside, and I should just reconcile. I value our friendship but choose not to make myself vulnerable again by sharing anything, more than superficial conversations, for now. 

The truth is, just because we are NC does not mean we have not reconciled the relationship. 

"Reconciliation" is the act of coming to an understanding and putting an end to hostility; the state of being resigned to something undesirable, or the process of achieving acceptance.

I do not feel hostility toward my mom.  I am resigned the relationship is toxic, and accept that it cannot be fixed.  I tried for 50 years.  I choose to no longer participate in a relationship, that hurts so much.

Bottom line - ending a relationship with a parent is an excruciating process, and does not mean we want to end relationships with all of our mutual connections.   However, when I went NC with my mom, I understood it could mean the end of some relationships, and I accepted that, as the price of freedom from the hell I was in.

I feel your pain, literally, and wish you peace and strength.

[Zia]

Thanks My New Life.

Exactly how you described it. This friend when he asked "Have you reconciled?" Felt like a slap to me as well as if what I went through for decades on a regular basis is something I can shake off within a matter of months or years.

I feel cautious and a bit distant after these recent interactions with this person.

I understand too that although he was well-meaning about that question or maybe basically does not know how to ask the more considerate way, not everyone will understand especially if they haven't experienced or doesn't have the same kind of awareness like what I have about what I just went through for decades.

[Call Me Cordelia]

I hear you too... I have a longtime close friend who while I know she loves me she just does not and cannot get it about my family situation, despite seeing me go through the worst of the time when I went NC. She still doesn't accept that it could really be "that bad." And then when I went NC with the IL's as well that was just the "proof" that I don't know how to manage family relationships and I should "prayerfully consider" forgiveness and reconciliation. I no longer discuss these matters in any way with her.

It's definitely put some distance there, but my parents and ILs aren't even part of her life and never were. I think the takeaway is that people are going to see things through the lens of their own experiences most of the time. Having the compassion to truly put yourself into another person's shoes is actually a pretty rare gift. And when it's something outside of "normal" experience, that ability is even more stretched.

[treesgrowslowly]

 

Nodding to all that's been shared here. Someone who asks "have you reconciled" may be in the clueless category, as Cat pointed out - someone who does not understand narc / PD dynamics (has been lucky enough not to live what we've lived through). Those lucky ducks!

Dr. Ramani has been posting a lot of videos lately that have me saying to myself "gosh, I wish someone had said that to me years ago!!" about staying Out of the FOG. One gem she repeats often is that after narc abuse, we are right to be discerning about who we let into our life.   

Not everyone in our life needs to understand our NC with our parents but they need to respect the decision we made, and respect the amount of info we're giving them (or not).

I second what Moglow wrote. If it were me, I would simply tell him "I value our friendship, and the situation with my parents is complicated. I'm handling it - thanks for your concern but it's not something I want to talk about. Let's talk about other things!"

Trees

[moglow]

"Reconciliation" is the act of coming to an understanding and putting an end to hostility; the state of being resigned to something undesirable, or the process of achieving acceptance.

I do not feel hostility toward my mom.  I am resigned the relationship is toxic, and accept that it cannot be fixed.  I tried for 50 years.  I choose to no longer participate in a relationship, that hurts so much.

Very well put. My thoughts are the same: We can absolutely be reconciled to what we have, without them. There's no "reconciliation" *with* someone who's patently uninterested in us. For someone to imply otherwise is, yes, a slap in the face.

[olivegirl]

I am about 2 years NC with malignant Bpd Mom and Npd Dad.

Lots of gaslighting meant I was VLC.

Afters decades of being smeared and isolated, I reached out to relatives who FINALLY admitted their hatred of my toxic parents.

Hearing about my parents' shameless antics and explicit confirmation of their smear campaign against me sent me to No Contact.

Surprise!  These relatives all still socialize with my PD parents.

Initially, I felt validated to be Out of the FOG and eager to re-connect with relatives and family friends.

But seeing so many photos and hearing of my parents' attendance at events that I don't dare attend;

Leaves me wanting to ghost everyone and try to start fresh. 

I also dread that these relatives will pressure me to "forgive" because no one wants to be stuck caring for my broke parents.

I am firmly NC and will go off the grid if necessary because there is no way I will do anything in any capacity to caretake my parasitic parents. 

My peace is my everything. 

[Zia]

Your choice and decision is respected Olivegirl. One of the cons of cutting of toxic people is the potential of cutting off other individuals that may serve as a bridge to connect you to the main source of toxicity.

I am about 2 years NC with malignant Bpd Mom and Npd Dad.

Lots of gaslighting meant I was VLC.

Afters decades of being smeared and isolated, I reached out to relatives who FINALLY admitted their hatred of my toxic parents.

Hearing about my parents' shameless antics and explicit confirmation of their smear campaign against me sent me to No Contact.

Surprise!  These relatives all still socialize with my PD parents.

Initially, I felt validated to be Out of the FOG and eager to re-connect with relatives and family friends.

But seeing so many photos and hearing of my parents' attendance at events that I don't dare attend;

Leaves me wanting to ghost everyone and try to start fresh. 

I also dread that these relatives will pressure me to "forgive" because no one wants to be stuck caring for my broke parents.

I am firmly NC and will go off the grid if necessary because there is no way I will do anything in any capacity to caretake my parasitic parents. 

My peace is my everything.