Going NC with Covert NPD Mother & Siblings - Thoughts On Shifting Gears?

[Kozywolf]

I wanted to discuss a few things here but i'll make the context concise. I've already started the process of going NC with my family, I currently live at home with my covert NPD mother, im the youngest child, my older sister and brother are already in the flying monkey category so they cannot be trusted, im the black sheep in this dynamic and my sister is the golden child who refuses to get out of her perpetual victim stage.

- technically in this dynamic we are all victims of some form of abuse but with my sister specifically, shes self destructive and still blames the world for all of her problems, resents me due to my mothers triangulation tactics - which in turn makes her susceptible to my mother's manipulation, she still holds out hope instead of seeing my mom for who she really is
- My brothers case is a bit more mild but still harmful for my mental health cause again nobody in this can be trusted, he still accepts help from my mom from time to time and confides in her about his current marriage (which is toxic within itself) which is a bad move in my opinion, so because of that he gave my mom all the supply she needs to guilt trip him at will, even if that means trying to get information out of me (which never works because its too obvious)

So how did I start this process?

Ever since the pandemic I had a bit of setbacks especially living in a competitive state like NY. Im leaving exactly a week from today. Ive been planning with my best friend for MONTHS! to move out, NOBODY knows about this except my therapist and obviously my best friend (Lmao and now you guys if youre reading), I already packed bags, i have a lock for my room door and in the event even if she wants to find anything she wont cause its all shredded and gone, basically im leaving without a trace, I changed my number and NOBODY in my family has that number and im feeling really good about this move, like i feel all the burdens being lifted, my life will finally reset, like instead of just surviving ill be able to live again. I dont even feel any ounce of guilt in my body ... except ONE THING

I think my mother knows something

She has no idea of my plans like I stated, she probably saw signs of a few things (im probably in my head) but im still confident in her not knowing anything because i use the grey rock method. in a poor attempt to reel me back in somehow as a last ditch effort she told me a about a week ago "did you know that your aunt has breast cancer?" ... what gave her away was she didnt mention which aunt of mine it was and I have 5 aunts. I could probably guess who but that was her way of throwing me off my game, because the aunt that I think thats in question is the one who raised me through most of my childhood, that was her way of guilt tripping me along with a bunch of bullshit

So whats the ultimate question{s} here?

Has anyone else tried dealt with this kind of thing before? and what was your life like after you went NC? that can include anything from relationships, to social life, work, etc.

Honorable Mention

I also want to welcome the discussion around estrangement, about 7 years ago i lost my father and that side of the family basically said "we are done with you and your siblings", they wiped their hands of us and that was that, my mother side as i explained earlier is just toxic all around, untrustworthy, etc. I dont have a safety net and dont have much to fall back on, my mother is a control freak so any possible bond i couldve had got sabotaged by her. not to mention a failed relationship. being surrounded by "family" and still being alone was one of the biggest struggles I had to face, after 4 years of therapy I got most of my confidence back - was this the case for any of you? what are some tips or things you learned as being an estranged adult.

[Starboard Song]

So whats the ultimate question{s} here?

Has anyone else tried dealt with this kind of thing before? and what was your life like after you went NC? that can include anything from relationships, to social life, work, etc.

Honorable Mention

I also want to welcome the discussion around estrangement, about 7 years ago i lost my father and that side of the family basically said "we are done with you and your siblings", they wiped their hands of us and that was that, my mother side as i explained earlier is just toxic all around, untrustworthy, etc. I dont have a safety net and dont have much to fall back on, my mother is a control freak so any possible bond i couldve had got sabotaged by her. not to mention a failed relationship. being surrounded by "family" and still being alone was one of the biggest struggles I had to face, after 4 years of therapy I got most of my confidence back - was this the case for any of you? what are some tips or things you learned as being an estranged adult.

Welcome to Out of the FOG.

We are 8 1/2 years NC from my in-laws. Me, my wife, and our son. He was 12 when this happened, so he remembers them well but they wouldn't recognize the young man he is now. I was the last to see either of them, early in 2018. Each of us lived this differently. My wife's experience is the relevant one: they were her own parents, right?

She describes the feeling as having been freed from a cage. The topic actually came up a couple days ago, and she said she simply hasn't looked back. An important part of the processing is to address one's own feelings of loss, and the very real failure to understand you'll get from most people.

We like to say it this way. A loving parent or grandparent is a real treasure, and is terrible to lose. My wife did not lose loving parents in 2015. My son didn't lose loving grandparents. We cut loose two people who were not reliably kind and decent. The loss happened long before, and we could never prevent it. The loss occurred when my MIL was improvidently cast in the role of Loving Mother. Accepting that this miscasting had already occurred and was beyond our control was essential.

"But she's your mother!" People will say that. A lot. They aren't being flying monkeys and they aren't wrong: it is ALMOST always right to grant special privileges to family. Weird Uncle Harry who curses at Thanksgiving in front of the kids. Granny that uses racial slurs and we all just hope doesn't mean it. There is a reason we put up with all sorts of stuff from family. You don't need to persuade the kindly but ill-informed people who say "But she's your mother!" I encourage you to calmly and matter-of-factly make it clear that you agree, and estrangement was the correct course. I am a nerd and speak kind of formally. I've said it "Yes, and we took the decision very seriously. For reasons I don't need to explain, we found that estrangement was necessary for our family."... and move on. Unless they really keep prodding and prodding, please try not to be angry at them for not understanding. I am glad most people haven't experienced this. We had one old friend write us a letter that was very much shaming us for making an immoral decision and begging us to reconsider and stop causing our in-laws so much pain. That one did upset us, but even there we tried to remember how hard it is to understand, and we tried to not feel anger. After all, we didn't go NC for 40 years or so: it is weird to expect others to suddenly arrive at our conclusion the same time we did.

We have lost a couple of aunts/uncles over this. Because of a large geographic spread, these were folks we'd only have seen once a year or so, but that is still sad. Others in the family have stood by our side: they tell us they completely understand. We bear no ill will to those who don't.

My wife has had to work to rebuild her confidence. I commend to you Radical Acceptance (by Brach) and Self-Compassion (by Neff). These books were very important to my wife's journey. It's been a good journey. She feels way better now. You are embarking on a tough road. But it can be the best decision you ever made.

Be ever so strong. Be ever so good.

[NarcKiddo]

I wish you luck. I am still in contact with FOO so have no experiences to share. I wanted to reply because of your statement

"I think my mother knows something"

I sometimes think my mother has a sixth sense. Although she can be very perceptive and certainly notices changes to the supply she expects from me, I think in reality if I am making changes I become very sensitive to those areas and notice facets of her behaviour that might otherwise pass me by. I can't remember the term but it is a known psychological effect. It is easy to over-compensate and I have in the past shot myself in the foot because of this. Yes, you may be giving off different signals, and yes, she may be picking up on something. But I think your best bet is to believe in yourself and your conviction that she does not actually know anything even if she senses something.

[Kozywolf]

"But she's your mother!" People will say that. A lot.

@Starboard Song thank you for the kind words and solid insight. this section really resonated with me because all throughout my childhood, this is all that ive heard, no matter how abusive my NPD mom was, everybody around me invalidated my experience, gaslit me, and made me question every single decision ive made. even as a full grown adult, they still say this and since then ive been cuttin them off one by one, it started slowly of not showing up to family events, shoot; even showing to funerals i stopped doing cause it brought me so much anxiety around how much my actions and opinions will be policed. when it was times for people to get together, they chose those times to argue over petty stuff, basically they were just straight up being fake and only worried about "the family image" - toxic behind doors, big loving family to the rest of the world.

please try not to be angry at them for not understanding. I am glad most people haven't experienced this. We had one old friend write us a letter that was very much shaming us for making an immoral decision and begging us to reconsider and stop causing our in-laws so much pain. That one did upset us, but even there we tried to remember how hard it is to understand, and we tried to not feel anger.

Thankfully I grew up near a library so i spent most of my days there as a kid, just reading and being productive, that was my escape from home. Self improvement and seeking answers was important to me, as i used to obsess over it as a kid and formed some unhealthy habits cause i never got any honest answers from my family, im much better at managing stress and anger for people not understanding BUT sometimes I do have my days where i would speak and sometimes regret even saying anything in that moment, which I found keeping it short and sweet works.

I will check out those books you mentioned also! Im ready to face this head on and be able to look back and say im glad I did this for me

[Kozywolf]

Yes, you may be giving off different signals, and yes, she may be picking up on something. But I think your best bet is to believe in yourself and your conviction that she does not actually know anything even if she senses something.

Yeah. this right here is MAJOR key! thank you for wishing me luck on my journey, I appreciate the vote of confidence. I can relate to the feeling of my NM having a sixth sense, thats because she still expects me to the play the role that she forced on me and when she doesnt get the supply she becomes very passive aggressive and try to do any and everything to get a reaction. Best thing ive done was just say "F*** off" in my head and move on, when shedding old layers sometimes i get a little paranoid always looking for the manipulative tactics or when the other shoe will drop. but like you stated it is wise to just continue doing what i have been doing, now that i think about it, if she DID know something she wouldve done something by now to try to sabotage my situation

[sunshine702]

You are so brave.

It can be lonely and sometimes tough to do things on your own sometimes but is toxic soup or quiet worse?!  For most of us toxic soup is way worse!!

Write letters in a journal to yourself.  Re read them from time to time.  Letters now as to the why.  Letters later with hope/fears/ challenges— like taking pictures of a puppy each and every day.  The growth is so subtle but you will see it. 

[Believer]

Kozywolf I applaud your bravery and ability to be resourceful, educate yourself and secure peace and safety.

I have struggled with my uNM my entire life and the relationship was already falling apart over 30 years ago. When her behavior began to affect my children, I had to draw the line and was minimal contact for many many years. About 7 years ago events occurred that forced no contact. She bounced around staying with people until they couldn't stand it anymore and ultimately she found a place to live by the grace of god. She never told me her exact location and I only knew from another family member. She was essentially giving me the silent treatment and I was ok with it. But even still, the first year I wasn't communicating with her I struggled with guilt to the point of nauseousness. Some of my extended family and I grew farther apart and I felt really sad about it but the fallout from her actions caused tremendous fracturing. Occassionally close friends would ask me how she was doing and if I felt comfortable I might say something like "I haven't been in contact with her" and just leave it at that. With people outside of my closest circle, I say nothing about my mother. My guilt started to lift and I felt free and I was able to function in the world trusting myself and feeling in my element. My work improved, my life felt great. I had been on this site during that difficult time and I was (and am) so grateful.

Well, I recently posted that I'm back here again. I got suckered into minimal communication over time with my uNM and wouldn't you know it, 6 months ago I didn't realize I had been hoovered. This past week her situation escalated to very serious but there is nothing I can do. It is very painful. I now wish I had totally and absolutely blocked every single form of communication but the truth is, she still may have found a way to reach out via flying monkeys as she recently did, and I might still be in the same place I am now - my mind is tortured by thoughts of what is going on with her. She is now homeless and being sheltered temporarily at a hotel.

I cannot possibly begin to write out the whole lifetime of events that lead to her situation. But the support I do have from very close family fully understands and are not surprised, terribly sad and tragic as it may be. This is only a few people in my life, but it means everything to me.

Trust yourself. Be kind to yourself. Eat and rest. Be your best self for you and those you love and trust. The likelihood of a PD changing is very, very low in my experience.

I have found writing to be very therapeutic throughout my life and it sounds like that is true for you as well. Continue to nurture your own soul. You are evolving and that is a wonderful thing. Not everyone is capable of it.

[Kozywolf]

Sorry for the late reply, I have been adjusting to my new living situation and settling in a bit, I feel so much lighter since moving and i appreciate you all for sharing your stories and kind words, it brings me joy knowing their are others who experienced the same or similar situation as me. I have been in therapy for 4 years, im not officially there but i still keep in contact with my therapist and writing was definitely a game changer

[moglow]

Be prepared for flying monkeys or the everso vague mentions of serious health issues as already seen. Were this actually to provide information, said information would have been given. Mine used to like to use "your brother said/did/asked ..." as a dramatic lead in. You gonna need to narrow that down - I have three.

A few of my internal mantras: 

Other peoples' expectations are not mine to provide; their opinions are just that - Opinions, no more no less. They don't know and don't need to know my stuff. Along with [when dealing with any difficult people, not specifically just mommie dearest]: Be brief, be polite, and be gone.

With time it'll be easier to cut off supposed well-meant commentary or advice. Those who haven't lived what you lived with her will remain determined to speak for her, and ultimately tell you where your supposed duty lies. You don't have to tell them anything but my personal favorite is a very pointed and well placed, "I appreciate your concern but I'd rather not discuss her behind her back. That feels an awful lot like gossip to me. I'm sure you understand."

[Starboard Song]

"I appreciate your concern but I'd rather not discuss her behind her back."

I've been reading suggestions for this for years but have never seen this. That's outstanding.

[moglow]

I rather like it, Starboard. It points everso politely that's what they're doing and we call it out for what it is. Md had a mini meltdown when it got back to her what I'd said, said she felt insulted. I told her, most people would be insulted that someone is obviously picking for gossip. I know I would. (While basically she confirmed that's *exactly* what they were doing, just in the reverse.)

[NarcKiddo]

Thanks for the update, Kozywolf. I'm glad you got out and are settling in to your new life.