First attempt of the new year by Dad - how to handle.

[lkdrymom]

Here is your first step. The next time you do actually go and get groceries with him TELL him he needs to buy enough for TWO weeks because you cannot be back the following week.  If he complains or refuses remind him again that you are not available next week so he either prepares now or goes without.....and you don't want to hear any phone calls complaining he needs to go shopping next week.....he has been warned.  Then it is up to him.  Either he gets enough or he doesn't but it is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Then after the trip stop answering his calls for the next two weeks.  If it is an emergency he will call your brother.

I took my father shopping every other week.  And there were times I truly felt I did not have the emotional energy to deal with him.  Every time he'd want to go to dinner afterwards.  I couldn't take being around him that long so I learned to say no to dinner.  Maybe yes once every 4th visit or so.  I know you feel bad when you say no.  I learned to remember the times he was crappy to me and it made it a lot easier to refuse.

And I get that trying to tell him straight up how it is (wife doesn't like you because you are a jerk so NO she doesn't have to see you) will never sink it.  My father only heard what he wanted to hear.  Actually they do hear what you say, they just won't ever acknowledge it as being true.

[p123]

Here is your first step. The next time you do actually go and get groceries with him TELL him he needs to buy enough for TWO weeks because you cannot be back the following week.  If he complains or refuses remind him again that you are not available next week so he either prepares now or goes without.....and you don't want to hear any phone calls complaining he needs to go shopping next week.....he has been warned.  Then it is up to him.  Either he gets enough or he doesn't but it is NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Then after the trip stop answering his calls for the next two weeks.  If it is an emergency he will call your brother.

I took my father shopping every other week.  And there were times I truly felt I did not have the emotional energy to deal with him.  Every time he'd want to go to dinner afterwards.  I couldn't take being around him that long so I learned to say no to dinner.  Maybe yes once every 4th visit or so.  I know you feel bad when you say no.  I learned to remember the times he was crappy to me and it made it a lot easier to refuse.

And I get that trying to tell him straight up how it is (wife doesn't like you because you are a jerk so NO she doesn't have to see you) will never sink it.  My father only heard what he wanted to hear.  Actually they do hear what you say, they just won't ever acknowledge it as being true.

At the moment, if I say I'm busy he tries then to ask what I'm doing. No not telling you. I'm bad at this - need to work on this because I give him too much info.

He doesnt come shopping with me. Gives me a list. I do often buy 2x what he wants - most of it goes in the freezer anyway. In the past he tried to say "but it wont keep that long". In the freezer for two weeks? Nice try but noone  believes that. He moans and moan but hard luck.

Oh yes, its getting to that with my wife. I told him last week that he needs to drop this now that she is an adult and can as she pleases and its not even my place to tell her how to think. He mumbled and moaned and said something like "need to tell her what she should be doing" which is DAD-speak for "husband needs to MAKE wife do as he says however it is done". Scary....

He doesn't listen. In his head, he has never done anything wrong to anyone and so unfair that hes so old, can't cope and no-one has the time to help him. (all untrue of course)

[nanotech]

You can repeat ' just busy' and if he presses as to what , ' this and that' then he tries again, ' oh you know, this and that and the other' or ' modern living dad'  it's really hard at first because we've been programmed to explain ourselves in detail.
Then you get off the phone.' Dad, I'm on the run, bye. ' If he re rings,  don't pick up.
The minute you give details of why he will tell you why in his view you have no need to do that task and also out you down in the process. Tasks you do are not up for discussion.
I feels really weird at first and it feels uncomfortable. Then you will see how freeing it is and you'll wish you had done me this this years ago. It's like putting on a suit of armour.
They want to hear reasons in order to question them to the ends of the earth and  so wipe them from your life. 
They are never going to say, ' oh I see and I understand. '
Re your dads attitude to women. You keep saying it's 'scary' . I think it's abusive too, He clearly enjoys suggesting  to you that you should abuse your wife. He certainly talks about her as she's less than a man. That's  what it boils down to. 
Don't let him do that. If you get comments like that ask him politely and calmly to speak respectfully about her. She's the mother of his grandchildren and she looks after his son.
If he doesn't then say you've got to end the call as you are not happy with listening to that. We are not compelled to listen to  that.

[Orangeblossom77]

I wonder if this might help you. I have a neighbour who had a stroke and she gets ready meals delivered. She doesn't use the internet but there is a phone like. They sent her all the info and a catalogue after an email. It's quite reasonable.

I will give you a link. So if he gets demanding you could say he could get his meals from there. They even put the meals away for them.

https://www.wiltshirefarmfoods.com

[NumbLotus]

"Busy with what?"
"Same stuff as always, Dad."
"But what could be so important?"
"Lots of stuff. I'll see you week after next."
"But can't you-"
"Gotta go."

[Borntosurvive178]

I've got a very similar situation with my uNPD M. She has always shopped at one particular supermarket, that is overpriced and the store not particularly welcoming or nice to shop in. Yet she insists on going there.
When my D was alive he would take her there on their weekly jaunt. Since his passing she found a little old lady up the road who was also a widow. She then was tasked with taking her weekly. Then this lady gets unwell, and cant take her. So she's guilting one of us to take her.
We discussed deliveries, and my BIN arranged a mobility scooter to enable her to he independent. This has now turned into the latest fiasco  as she managed to get stuck between two bollards, and had to push the scooter out, to free herself, and has launched herself of a steep pavement!😂🤭
I'm half expecting a clip of her escapades to show up on 'caught on camera' or something!
But essentially what we've learnt is, if we solve a problem like shopping etc, she has nothing to lord over others, and essentially she loves getting people doing her bidding!
So I'm with everyone here, and agree, arrange a weekly shopping delivery. Or alternatively just step back and say, as you've said  option 1 or option 2!
Keep strong, and don't allow yourself to get brow beaten or hovered! Although I'm more than aware that's easier said than done!
All good wishes to you!

[lkdrymom]

So I guess the next time the insists on finding out why you can't visit ...blurting out "I just don't enjoy your company" would not work?

[WomanInterrupted]

Practice saying non-JADE non-answers about being busy until they roll off your lips naturally.   

There's no shame in practicing, especially if it doesn't feel or sound natural, and goes against all your programming. 

I was SO bad at this stuff, I used to walk around the house saying Medium Chill and, "I'm busy" statements to the point our parrot picked them up and stared saying them back to us and the cats! 

When asked, "Busy with what?" or "What has you so busy?" (AKA, "I don't believe you!") 

1.  "Oh, you know, the usual.  I don't want to bore you."

2.  "Oh, you know how it is.  Never a dull moment around here."

3.  "Same shit, different day."

4.  "Oh, the same old rat race, but the rats are winning."

5.  "What are you, like, my parole officer?" (said while you're laughing, to bring levity to the convo.)

6.  "If I tell you, I have to kill you." (again, while laughing)

If he *insists* and wants specific examples, you've got a couple of choices:

1.  "Dad, I just told you, I'm busy and can't do it."

2.  LIE!  "Dad, I'm swamped at work."

You have one of those kinds of jobs you can perpetually be swamped, slammed, or completely overwhelmed by the amount of work coming in.  I'm a writer and didn't have that option.   

Personally, I used to double-down on, "I just told you I'm busy and can't do it." 

You WILL get this  stuff!  I promise!   

It won't seem natural, because you were trained to overshare and allow yourself to have your priorities over-ridden or ignored, in favor of your dad, but it DOES get easier each time you stick to, "Dad, I can't - I'm busy." 

[p123]

I wonder if this might help you. I have a neighbour who had a stroke and she gets ready meals delivered. She doesn't use the internet but there is a phone like. They sent her all the info and a catalogue after an email. It's quite reasonable.

I will give you a link. So if he gets demanding you could say he could get his meals from there. They even put the meals away for them.

https://www.wiltshirefarmfoods.com

Thanks OB. He already has meals on wheels. Only 4 days a week though for some reason. He could have for 7 but he declines. Don;t want to manage too well on his own because he'd lose his power.

I'll have a look at that. One of his excuses is either "delivery is too expensive" or "minimum order is way too much"

[nanotech]

Practice saying non-JADE non-answers about being busy until they roll off your lips naturally.   

There's no shame in practicing, especially if it doesn't feel or sound natural, and goes against all your programming. 

I was SO bad at this stuff, I used to walk around the house saying Medium Chill and, "I'm busy" statements to the point our parrot picked them up and stared saying them back to us and the cats! 

When asked, "Busy with what?" or "What has you so busy?" (AKA, "I don't believe you!") 

1.  "Oh, you know, the usual.  I don't want to bore you."

2.  "Oh, you know how it is.  Never a dull moment around here."

3.  "Same shit, different day."

4.  "Oh, the same old rat race, but the rats are winning."

5.  "What are you, like, my parole officer?" (said while you're laughing, to bring levity to the convo.)

6.  "If I tell you, I have to kill you." (again, while laughing)

If he *insists* and wants specific examples, you've got a couple of choices:

1.  "Dad, I just told you, I'm busy and can't do it."

2.  LIE!  "Dad, I'm swamped at work."

You have one of those kinds of jobs you can perpetually be swamped, slammed, or completely overwhelmed by the amount of work coming in.  I'm a writer and didn't have that option.   

Personally, I used to double-down on, "I just told you I'm busy and can't do it." 

You WILL get this  stuff!  I promise!   

It won't seem natural, because you were trained to overshare and allow yourself to have your priorities over-ridden or ignored, in favor of your dad, but it DOES get easier each time you stick to, "Dad, I can't - I'm busy." 

WI I love the parrot story!
P123 this does work. When I started this 9 years ago, I used to write assertive and medium chill phrases down and refer to them when I was on the phone to him! 
One just said,  ' I am a grown up.'
Yep I needed that written down so it could burn into my eyeballs and his tone wouldn't cause me to slip into child mode and I'd metaphorically start emptying my pockets for him while he examined all the contents! 😊

[p123]

Thanks WI/Nano - I do try to do things like this.

He did it recently. Basically wanted a run down of exactly what I'd done that weekend. I used to tell him and he'd go "OK then" as if I had to pass it through him that it was all OK to do that.

Now I do try but hes persistent. If I push back I get "Didn't know it was a secret". Eh? Its not a secret but we're not discussing exact details of where I've been.
He gets offended as if its his right to know this information.

His classic is when I tell him I've been busy in work. "Doing what?". Thats just crazy. He has no idea what I do so why is he asking that? In the past, its been so funny you could honestly write a sit com. He asked "So have you explained to your boss what you've done to fix the issue?" . Should have just ignored him but I said "No Dad there is no need I'm a consultant".  (Im an IT consultant not very interesting - but I've been doing it 30 years)

He kept on and I had to have a whole conversation about how my boss had no idea what I do because they pay me for my knowledge and thats how it worked. It was like talking to the wall. He couldnt work out how someone who was my boss didnt know more than me. But why did he have to know how the IT industry works.

[Orangeblossom77]

Well that one is free delivery and I think no minimum order.   

[NumbLotus]

"Didn't know it was a secret."
"Didn't know it was an interrogation."

[p123]

Well that one is free delivery and I think no minimum order.   

Thanks OB. Sounds ideal for Dad. Just having a look at website.

Brilliant for the "normal" elderly person. However, not kidding myself here, the food thing is a scam to get me there - nothing more. He'll freak out if I suggest this again because, in his head, this means, I'm outsourcing visiting and never to be seen again. He loses his power.

I'm just thinking now of the excuses that hes going to make for NOT doing it:-

1. Delivery charge - No delivery charge.
2. Minimum order - No minimum order (2 for 2 so far).
3. Don't want strangers knocking my door (yep he'll try this one!)
4. Cost (Ready meals are £1-£1.50 in supermarkets). So bearing in mind his tightness is legendary hes going to use this :-(

BUT thanks OK, cracking idea for one day.... We'll see how it goes.

[NumbLotus]

From his end it's going to go the way it goes for Dad. Don't expect that he will change. He won't change, and so that is not the goal.

It's you that is changing, and the power and control he has over you is slipping. Not because he is changing but because you are changing.

So when you implement a new routine, let go of the hope that he will accept it. He won't. He'll try everything.

Pin your hopes on yourself - that you will no longer feel the way you were programmed to. That your dad can fuss and you can shrug and say, hey, at least that's sorted.

Your dad will take and take and take and it will never be enough. You don't owe him - hell, he owes you. Part of you feels that way (and part of you still feels guilty). The part of you that feels like you owe nothing is growing and that is the change. Not your father.

So when you say you'll see how it goes, the only question about it is how YOU will feel about your father's standard, unchanged tactics. Still guilty? Or like you've done your part and YOU (not he) feel satisfied?

[tob-ler-one]

Well that one is free delivery and I think no minimum order.   

Thanks OB. Sounds ideal for Dad. Just having a look at website.

Then suggest it to him? 

[p123]

Well that one is free delivery and I think no minimum order.   

Thanks OB. Sounds ideal for Dad. Just having a look at website.

Yes I will. As NumLotus says hes not going to change.

If I arranged free fillet steak delivered by topless waitresses he'd still moan about it lol.

Then suggest it to him? 

[nanotech]

He won't change, but this is what I've noticed about my dad, they eventually accept change.  They do relent.,We actually hold all the cards and if we stop doing something their only tool is their previous power over us. That's why they get so loud and obnoxious. It's intimidation.After a LONG, long time of you continually medium chilling his varied attempts at resistance, he will just be forced to give in.,Then, a slow process this, but he will begin to get used to it.
Then the  complaining could well gradually reduce. He may start to get friendly with the deliverers etc. Despite his own best efforts to hate it, he'll  hopefully start looking out for the van when it's due.
Think back to when your children were teething or you were potty- training them.
Lots of sleepless nights and mess goes on for months and months, but we keep going. It's the same sort of thing. They kick against it like mad, but we need to not budge on it. Not on any of it.,

[WomanInterrupted]

"Didn't know it was a secret."

"Didn't know it was an interrogation." 



Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! 

Personally, if he goes with it being a SECRET, I'd just IGNORE him and move on to the next subject.  If he brings it up again, ignore.  And keep ignoring.  He's *trying* to make you justify the use of your time and you're an adult - you don't answer to him.   

If he asks again why you won't tell him what you've been up to, or mentions your doings being a secret, I'd tell him, "Dad, it's really none of your concern..." - and change the subject. 

Your dad seems to think he's the Ultimate Authority and must APPROVE of what you're doing, how you're doing it, how long it takes, whom you talk to, how to talk to them, and what you should and shouldn't say, and that's NOT true.

Your dad isn't going to change his mindset - but you can change your responses to him by NOT giving him what he wants.

Just because he asks (demands), doesn't mean he's OWED an explanation.

[p123]

"Didn't know it was a secret."

"Didn't know it was an interrogation." 



Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! 

Personally, if he goes with it being a SECRET, I'd just IGNORE him and move on to the next subject.  If he brings it up again, ignore.  And keep ignoring.  He's *trying* to make you justify the use of your time and you're an adult - you don't answer to him.   

If he asks again why you won't tell him what you've been up to, or mentions your doings being a secret, I'd tell him, "Dad, it's really none of your concern..." - and change the subject. 

Your dad seems to think he's the Ultimate Authority and must APPROVE of what you're doing, how you're doing it, how long it takes, whom you talk to, how to talk to them, and what you should and shouldn't say, and that's NOT true.

Your dad isn't going to change his mindset - but you can change your responses to him by NOT giving him what he wants.

Just because he asks (demands), doesn't mean he's OWED an explanation.

Yes trying to do this now......

Oh yes he does not seem to compute why he can't have all this information or why his opinion on the world is the one I need to listen to.

I'm sure I've mentioned before his MOST ANNOYING HABIT is asking a question, for instance, "so why are you booking another holiday and spending more money this year?" I'll give a short answer or change the subject.

HE WILL NOT LET IT GO. Then he'll say something like "Say? Say? Say?". Its a weird turn of phrase (think its a local dialect thing). Drives me up the wall!!!!

Its not so easy face to face but many times when I'm in the car on hands free I just put the phone down. Punch the steering wheel, take some deep breaths then call him back in 5 mins. Then say "oh sorry mobile signal". A lot of the time he will have forgotten and move onto something else.

My record is 6 cut-offs on one call. Then I phoned back and said "sorry I'm in a traffic jam and we're going through the tunnel I'll call you tomorrow".