I think she needs more but what? and what to do?

[moglow]

And through it all she's [also] mad that her house is a disaster and she can't manage cleaning herself, claims to be so embarrassed about the condition it's now in. There is admittedly a part of me that wants to show up at her house, push her to the side and clean until I can't anymore. Headphones with great music, gas mask, whatever I need to remove myself, just do the job that needs doing and leave. Follow me around with instruction or complaints or mess with me in any way and I leave. No casual chatter, no frivolity, not there to entertain her. I'd honestly almost like to have her face me and let her be who she is while I stonewall it.

But ... that's the only need she has of me, all she sees in me, as a maid. Perhaps better to simply anonymously contact elder care and let them deal with it.

[Srcyu]

It probably wouldn't make you feel good cleaning her house. Your sense of duty might be fulfilled but she would have the chance to make you feel bad simply by being there. Whether she was rude or pretended to be nice, she would still have the capacity to wreck your week.

Since she is prone to making accusations you would need to protect yourself against any claims of items going missing and so forth.
The cost to yourself health wise needs careful consideration imo.


milly

[moglow]

You're right, and thank you. Massive debriefing with GC last night reminded me again how debilitating it all is, how relentless she is. Being in that space would drag me down into it and i'd feel slimy all over again.


She unloaded on everyone this round - not to me but about me. In their shared experiences I felt my own, heard her voice and saw her face. Plus she's not above claims of elder abuse - she's done that before too. Whatever it takes and whoever it takes out.


GC also gets points, called her on her behavior and how she treats people. The volatility, baiting/setting people up to fail, the explosive anger over trivia, the sneering insulting way she talks to and about others, the backstabbing, pitting against each other, laughing and lack of compassion over others pain ... and that she's always done it. Pointed out that she has four children, barely speaks to one. Has cut the others out and [no doubt] says truly nasty things behind our backs. I know what she said to me over the years, I have no doubt she does the same about me.


I dont know if GC words will take root or if she'll shut down but she's been seen now. She may try to go quiet then the good fairy emerges all fresh in a few months, asking why we're not calling and what's she done. So she can try to ramp it up again. It's what she does.


It's like a big ole PD hangover now, trying to rest and let go of pieces as they come up. Being kinder to myself and others, grateful for my brothers. And y'all, so much.

[bloomie]

It's like a big ole PD hangover now, trying to rest and let go of pieces as they come up. Being kinder to myself and others, grateful for my brothers. And y'all, so much.

This is such a perfect description of the aftermath from a PD attack. I hope you are able to reset and rest. And I am so very grateful you are too wise to go out on the spider web despite the attempts to lure you there. 🕸

[moglow]

She sent another text to brother yesterday - the treatment he tried made her pain even more excruciating. If she'd known this was possible there'd have been NO treatment, what is she supposed to do now etc. Im sure in her mind it'll soon be turned to, he harmed her deliberately. He checked meter on the machine - over 4500 treatments [including on himself for very similar issues!] one complaint of excruciating pain after. Noted.

I told him, so I guess you're fired?! [Not that he was planning to go back] My take on it: She knows she also owes *him* an apology and she can't do it. She doesn't want to face him after her refusal to do as he asked and her most recent meltdown.

She just can't let it be.

But me and him? It's so good y'all. We're talking like we never have, on a host of subjects. I offer an opinion or question and it's not sneered at or pushed aside. I see his eyes light up and "thats a good point, i hadnt thought of it that way!" I pregame something on his schedule, exactly what he needed. He overhears me on the phone, really liked the way I handled a situation. We have laughter and dad jokes, and the music I'm playing in the office reminds him of Daddy so we smile some more. I'm almost grateful for her meltdown - Far from driving the wedges she intended, it's shoved us closer together.

[Sneezy]

But me and him? It's so good y'all. We're talking like we never have, on a host of subjects. I offer an opinion or question and it's not sneered at or pushed aside. I see his eyes light up and "thats a good point, i hadnt thought of it that way!" I pregame something on his schedule, exactly what he needed. He overhears me on the phone, really liked the way I handled a situation. We have laughter and dad jokes, and the music I'm playing in the office reminds him of Daddy so we smile some more. I'm almost grateful for her meltdown - Far from driving the wedges she intended, it's shoved us closer together.

This makes me smile ❤️ Good for you and I'm happy for this silver lining.

[Boat Babe]

I'm being horrible here but she would just hate it if she knew you and your brother were connecting so authentically and enjoyably!  I'm really glad for you Moglow.

[moglow]

You're not horrible at all, just speaking what we see. I thought the same as do my brothers and a lifetime friend who's been around through all this. She'd see it as me manipulating all of them somehow, not the freedom and peace of letting it go.

[moglow]

FYI - we appear to have entered the oozy gooey stage of md's delusions. I answered her phone call a little while ago, acknowledged that I got her recent text and didn't know what to think or what the correct response might be, so I had made none. She acknowledged that it must have come out of the blue and she's sure it caught me off guard. But again (paraphrased) "things happened when y'all were growing up, I mean when you were little." No no, not just when we were little kids, you were right the first time. [that was brushed off, pish tosh who remembers such things] But she was caught off-guard when big brother brought it up, she doesn't remember any of that [if only we didn't], such crazy times and so much going on... All of it brushed off with the industrial broom, never directly stated or apologized, because those things were so long ago.

She just "wants us to be okay," me and her. Okay is about as good as I've got left, polite and pleasant when I have to be. I'm "her only little girl"??! Never has she ever used that terminology with me, not sure what to do with that either. Still not her friend, not up for visits, not her housekeeper or therapist. And I still don't trust or  believe in her. I know she's old and may or may not have many years left, but this is all a bit much given where we've been.

I kinda feel sorry for her, that she thinks this supposed change of heart at 85 makes it all okay. Maybe she is looking back, not liking what she sees. Or maybe it's all a front, with a treble hook hidden in there somewhere. Who knows.

Cynical mo, present and accounted for.

[Poison Ivy]

Moglow, I think this is more than enough: "Okay is about as good as I've got left, polite and pleasant when I have to be." It's an accomplishment to be polite and pleasant to a person significant in your life who has done you wrong, many times and for many years.

[moglow]

Thx, Poison Ivy. It sounded kinda cold and heartless in my head but other than that, no. I dont feel angry at least, so there's that. For her to so blithely flick away abuse of her children, abuse that was confirmed and expanded in some detail by no less than three people other than me? And STILL not actually addressing what she was told? I don't know how she lives with herself.

She also claimed she was so glad to have bro and his wife there recently. Wait - Is that the same couple you told to get the hell out of your house two weeks ago?? THAT brother?


Is she that medicated? Or being coached for now? I'm guessing yes.

[moglow]

It hit me around 4am - three different people confirmed the abuse, the beatings and how we were treated when we were growing up. She danced around it, never acknowledged any of it for what was. That huge apology she referred to in her txt to me? Didnt happen.

She doesn't remember any of it, even after being reminded, so I suppose no apology is needed. I didn't expect one so i'm not disappointed, just kinda flat still. Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

[bloomie]

Moglow - there is true mental decline where we see that someone is struggling to cognitively process new information and retrieve old info, and there is selective memory that claims that they have no recollection of abuse, neglect, cruelty or the recent text that said they owe you an apology. 🤔

I think it is possible to discern which one we are dealing with in a person we know so well.

This sounds like an entrenched, prideful, haughty heart posture in someone whose life has become completely isolated due to their inability to love, respect, and honor others, much less take responsibility for their failures.

I don't see it as cynical to view MD's words and behaviors as most likely self serving and not trustworthy. I see that as wisdom and discernment.

She doesn't remember any of it, even after being reminded, so I suppose no apology is needed. I didn't expect one so i'm not disappointed, just kinda flat still. Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Dare I say it... even if she truly didn't remember, if all of her children are attesting to her poor treatment of them and bearing witness to the abuse of you in particular, that should be enough to humble a person and bring a wave of remorse and regret that leads to change right now in the time she has left. The relationships are distant and fractured and she hasn't taken the time to cast her mind back to where she failed and what may be the cause? No. 

I don't know how she lives with herself either. Thank you God, that you have created a safe space from her around yourself and that you and your brother are building trust and friendship out of the ashes of all of this.

[moglow]

This sounds like an entrenched, prideful, haughty heart posture in someone whose life has become completely isolated due to their inability to love, respect, and honor others, much less take responsibility for their failures.

I don't see it as cynical to view MD's words and behaviors as most likely self serving and not trustworthy. I see that as wisdom and discernment.

She doesn't remember any of it, even after being reminded, so I suppose no apology is needed. I didn't expect one so i'm not disappointed, just kinda flat still. Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Dare I say it... even if she truly didn't remember, if all of her children are attesting to her poor treatment of them and bearing witness to the abuse of you in particular, that should be enough to humble a person and bring a wave of remorse and regret that leads to change right now in the time she has left. The relationships are distant and fractured and she hasn't taken the time to cast her mind back to where she failed and what may be the cause? No.  (https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/Smileys/default/no.gif)

Yes ma'am, all of that. I hate the sound of it in my head, but dammit I have been here before with her many times over a variety of issues. This really isn't new for her. She claims no knowledge or memory, fine. But she's had people tell her, repeatedly and in some detail, so now she DOES know - and nothing. Not a glimmer of connection, compassion or remorse?

Simply put: She can't possibly be the source here. She has already rewritten history and someone somewhere must be blamed for these "misunderstandings." You and I both know, it ain't over. She will bring it up again when it suits her, and be stunned anew at all these "revelations" that no one has ever mentioned to her before. 

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and bringing clarity to mine. Any day now I'm sure it'll be turned around how cold hearted and distant I am - gosh, ya THINK?!! 

[moglow]

Dare I say it... even if she truly didn't remember, if all of her children are attesting to her poor treatment of them and bearing witness to the abuse of you in particular, that should be enough to humble a person and bring a wave of remorse and regret that leads to change right now in the time she has left. The relationships are distant and fractured and she hasn't taken the time to cast her mind back to where she failed and what may be the cause? No.  (https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/Smileys/default/no.gif)

I don't know how she lives with herself either. Thank you God, that you have created a safe space from her around yourself and that you and your brother are building trust and friendship out of the ashes of all of this.

Fighting waves of resentment and frustration today. Mothers day looms and while I'm sure md has some vision of what "should be" and I know she's going to feel hurt, I'm fighting my own. She doesn't -refuses to- see her role in any of this. I don't know why I picked all that back up but here I am today.

My one bright spot is I just booked myself a getaway for the weekend, to one of my happy places. Nothing extravagant or requiring a lot of travel, but enough to break my routine and hopefully clear my head. and yes, I'm daring to do this on HER day!!

[NarcKiddo]

I hope you enjoy your trip away. Make sure she can't get at you in your happy place, especially on 'that' day. You deserve a treat.

[Starboard Song]

I guess what I'm asking - am I being unreasonably selfish in wanting no part of this situation? Is it wrong for me to tsk tsk poor lady, she could call a housekeeping service? To be clear, she's told me none of this. She's hinted -to one of my cousins- that she wishes someone would clean her house, but she's said not one word to me. Not about that or anything else actually, phone calls are brief and impersonal.
It feels wrong somehow, leaving this helpless sick old woman on her own and making no effort to help her. I don't wish her ill - I just want no part of it or her.

It may be good to talk about what you WOULD do for her. You know your brother is doing stuff in person for her. If you could help him, so you lighten his load, without ever seeing her, would you be OK with that? There are big things to be done as a silent partner:

Research solutions to problems, like shopping for handicap accessories or medications or old-people phones.
Help with banking, investments, and taxes.
Application for government support, if applicable.
Chipping in to defer costs he may face as he helps.
Offering your emotional support to him.

These are all things you can do for your brother without ever being subjected to her: she doesn't need to know you are involved. And all those sorts of things seem like a good idea. I think they'd be good for your heart. And your brother, bless his heart, if he is doing this and is also kind to you, then it's great to help him be strong.

That said...

There are tons of old folks alone today, dying without assistance, and you and I never ask how we can help them: hundreds within 100 miles of you, probably (unless you're, like, in the middle of the wilderness). The reason is simple: they are not OUR old people. My in-laws are no longer MY old people. They will need to find or purchase friends to support them. That's my hard truth. I don't encourage anyone to go NC or completely cut things off, but when one does then I truly believe the people so cut off are no longer yours, and it is OK to be frank about that and it is not at all immoral.

Don't injure your heart: if you feel she is not yours, accept that with grace and resolution. But don't let it metastasize: if your brother remains your ally then you can find ways to be his without lowering yourself.

I wish you the strength of gods.

[Poison Ivy]

This: "if your brother remains your ally then you can find ways to be his without lowering yourself."

[moglow]

She's not my person, true enough. I'd not thought of it that way but yes. Md has gone to great lengths over the years to emphasize I'm not hers either. Facing the isn't necessarily easy, but still necessary.

My path of least resistance has become - listening to brother, talking it through as he needs an ear, providing insight where I can, his support buddy. He no longer suggests stopping in to see her or asking her to join us, when I've been to his place (he's within 10-15min drive of her house). He knows, both that I'm not interested and whatever she may have had to say on the subject. The silence is deafening at times, confirms she's had plenty to say and I don't need to hear it.

The "pressure" I feel is all self imposed, the "you shoulds" and "why don't yous" are all mine. When I'm honest with myself, I know I've shut down quite a lot. Guess I'm still sweeping out corners, bringing older stuff into the light and seeing that it didn't age well.

Talking it out does help clear the cobwebs. Y'all always seem to have that flip side perspective that straightens me back up.