I think she needs more [Plot twist]

[moglow]

Thx, redshoes! Therein lies the rub, I think - nobody in that scenario has any boundaries and, until Bro stepped in, every one of them failed to divert appointments back to business. I have concerns about insurance fraud at this point - Bro says she's received "something" that indicates she's supposedly maxed benefits. Really?? Really.

I asked if we can backtrack what's been paid and for what [since that's what I do in *our* office every day!]. She claims to never get any of that information, says it's none of her or our business. I call bs. Insurance companies absolutely send that to the patients, usually the patient gets it before the provider and it details exactly what's been billed and paid, what the patient's responsibility is. Yet she just got "something" saying she's maxed benefits? He has apparently pointed this out to her, and as expected, I don't know what I'm talking about and her case is somehow different. Hooker no.   That's a doctor's office and you can bet your ass they're billing for the time she spends visiting. If they've somehow maxed her benefits by July after several months of NO visits, I want to know why and so should she. If there are billing errors, fine, it happens. They can correct them and we'll readdress. But threatening to bill her because they somehow maxed benefits? Yeah no. I have questions first.

But yes there's some sad validation in hearing his side of the interactions. Same, brother man, same. I told him flat out that's why I stopped calling. She wants to pick fights and be a big ole bully? She can do that elsewhere. Time for that I do not have.

[Cat of the Canals]

NP told him in no uncertain terms that he considers her a non-compliant patient since she cancelled the home health yet he STILL didn't answer any of Bro's questions, and she'll need to find another provider. Bro asked for a copy of her chart and the NP declined, said her new doctor would have to set all that up.

Yeah... something is rotten in the state of Denmark. I'd say maybe it's as simple as the NP allowing this little charade of "mom comes in for a visit in which NOTHING happens" to continue for who knows how long, and then feeling guilty/uncomfortable once your brother is there to ask WTF is going on. But then why suddenly insist she get a new primary? Bizarre.

Your comment about the boxed brownies made me LOL because my MIL does this exact thing. She makes a big fuss about how they're going to her in-laws for dinner, and she forgot to make brownies! They requested her brownies! They are expecting her to bring brownies! She needs to make the brownies! Meanwhile they are boxed brownies and her in-laws "requested" them because she asked, "What can I bring?" And hey, I'm a big fan of boxed brownies myself, but I highly doubt these people have a desperate NEED for her to bring her "very special," "top secret recipe" Duncan Hines brownies.

[moglow]

Right? What's that all about ? I'm all for simplicity but wth, to center and continue entire conversations over them? The world must cease to turn while she ponders the possibilities? Make them, don't make them, but why did no one move along to -I don't know- her actual appt with the doctor?? 

Irony as my brother pointed out, she didn't  bake when we were kids. We weren't allowed cookies or brownies, no soft drinks or candies. Everything would "spoil our supper" or rot our teeth, exception was birthday cake or holiday desserts. When there were extended family gatherings, I dont remember her providing anything or doing anything once there - I was dispatched for kitchen cleaning duty. We probably ate them out of house and home, finally having opportunity and no one stopping us. 

[moglow]

Cat, I guarantee she's non-compliant, including with her meds. She'll take everything they prescribe and plenty of OTC meds depending on her need of the moment, even when they're specifically stated to be in conflict with known health conditions. Does she need it? We don't know. Is she taking as prescribed? We don't know. Did MAYBE she eat something that didn't agree with her and just needs to work through it instead of yet another prescription? Who knows. I don't get the impression any of that's been reviewed - her labs are supposedly "within acceptable ranges" and they continue on. I found it interesting she's just now deemed non compliant, because brother has brought to their attention how senseless and useless all these appointments are? Or because insurance denied something and they didn't get paid? Hmmmmm. That'll throw up a red flag all by itself.

Mother's big issue there is, once something's in her head she'll fight like hell to get it out. Random shit pings off the walls in her mind and there it is. She can't/won't talk about anything else until she says what she has to say, gets very agitated when anyone tries to redirect. I have this vision of deep sigh and they settle in to listen to her until time runs out. I'm not sure that it's unintentional on her part and she sees it all as somehow normal, or she just does not care.

Given my experience with her and the limited input elsewhere, she's the queen of that show and there she stays. Bro said he's now sat through several appointments where she cooed and babbled and twittered like a little girl who has the big strong man's attention. He attempted to redirect to why they are there, she got all offended and talked over him, this is HER appointment so she gets to dictate the terms!!! I'm just praying the next doctor is female and not bowled over my her charms.

[Andeza]

I swear Mo, on the medical front our Ms are twins, separated at birth. Sheesh. I'll admit there's a piece of me that would love to barge into the doctor's office and put him on notice that M is most likely BPD and has been stringing him along for almost 20 years, and that I want ALL the labs to peruse at my leisure and we need a hard convo about meds and what is and is not necessary. But I'm NC, and I'm sure he's put a kid through college on the profits off of her alone at this point. She's quite happy to be "sick" all the time. Her whole life she's gotten nothing but attention and well wishes from everybody. Not to mention all that juicy sympathy, and those listening ears that stand to and listen to be polite but don't realize what exactly they've been roped into.

It's so frustrating. Especially since more than half of these "supposed" illnesses are generally controllable and treatable by lifestyle changes. But I said the blasphemous word. Change.

Big hugs to you, and to your brother.

[moglow]

Change, sister - it ain't happening. Bro is trying to implement several and getting hard push back - he's very well versed in nutrition and not fond of western medicine at all. "You don't have a prescription deficiency!!" is one of his favorites, but she demands instant results/relief to every twinge or inconvenience. The whole hypochondriac mentality is exhausting and she's oblivious, caught up in labels and treatments and prescriptions, while she's steadily undoing it all the instant she gets home.

I've no doubt our mothers have people convinced poor old widow all alone, her children have abandoned her and life is sooooooo hard. No recognition of all they actually do [God love my brother, he's sure paying for it these days!] or have done over the years, or how those women painted themselves into those corners by their own behavior. She's lonely? No one calls or visits? Four children, five grandchildren and only one is around with any regularity? Honey. There's a reason and we all know what it is.  SHE is the reason.

[feralcat]

Moglow. Your last post made me laugh. Spot on for my unPdM now.
Since her fall a couple of months ago , and subsequent hospitalisation for two weeks, she's revelling in it. Carers in 4 times a day, throwing money at the most dysfunctional and money grabbing family member to sleep in. Loads of visitors but she 'never sees anybody'. Refuses to do anything to help herself.
Since my fact finding mission visit a couple of days ago to see what's what I've decided I just don't want to know. The most knowledgable and organised sister also now doesn't want to know.

Maybe your Bro will also get burned out enough to ultimately bow out. And regain his equilibrium
Not his circus, not his monkeys .......

[moglow]

Feralcat, Bro made a deathbed promise to our stepfather that he'd look out for her and he's said he will honor that promise until the end. He doesn't tend to kowtow to her, but will stand up to her bs and walk out whenever needed; that seems to be happening on a more frequent basis now. He does what's needed, not necessarily to her whims. 

For decades my brothers more or less assumed/insisted that I be the one because I'm the girl, then eventually faced head on how that affected me. I've told them, I served my time. In coming together the past several years, they get it. They see her for who she is and how abusive and indifferent she is not just to me but everyone. The world centers around her, her wants and supposed needs of the moment. Everyone exists to serve in whatever capacity she demands. Damned near everyone of her meltdowns have been about control, her expectations of what control looks like. There's truckloads of take and little to no give with her. I still fail to see why she became a mother at all, much less the mother of four.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Somebody wrote on these boards recently something like this: "This is not my problem. If you insist on making it my problem, I will resolve it in the way that works best for me. You may or may not like the solution, but that is definitely not my problem." I think that's fabulous.

I agree that doctor's office seems super shady. Yikes. That's a heavy deathbed burden for your brother.

[Andeza]

I posit the theory that they were walking around feeling empty inside because they don't know how to emotionally regulate, then saw a woman with a baby that adored it and cooed over it and saw how happy she was and said "I want to be that happy! I'll have a baby!" Which as we well know is not the right reason to have children.

[Rose1]

If I have a baby, I'll have someone to play with who will do what I want.
Tends to last till they're 2. So have another one.

[Call Me Cordelia]

If that was the thought process, Rose, you'd think they'd learn it doesn't work like that after the first baby or two! Babies do what you want lol that's a good one.

[Rose1]

If that was the thought process, Rose, you'd think they'd learn it doesn't work like that after the first baby or two! Babies do what you want lol that's a good one.

You'd think so wouldn't you? But I can't think of another reason why they have multiple kids and palm them off to others to look after. DH's ex kept having him do the cleaning, feeding etc and just come out as moty when required

[moglow]

I posit the theory that they were walking around feeling empty inside because they don't know how to emotionally regulate, then saw a woman with a baby that adored it and cooed over it and saw how happy she was and said "I want to be that happy! I'll have a baby!" Which as we well know is not the right reason to have children.

My guess is, mother saw the attention her siblings/their children got and needed to redirect all back to her. I genuinely don't believe she ever thought it through, that said children would be hers to raise. Plus back then it seems fewer people chose to *not* be parents, it just wasn't done. You were pushed to produce offspring as soon as ink was dry in the family Bible. I don't know what if any birth control she used, just that we could pretty much look back and calendar when Daddy's ship was in port and he was around for any period of time [he traveled a great deal as a profession, gone months at the time]. The four of us are fairly close in age and they divorced when I was around 8-10 so ... somewhere around time of the divorce she had to have hysterectomy [or did she?]. At any rate, childbearing was over for her.

What I think happened is that attention she needed/demanded backfired on her - it went to the little ones she produced. At family gatherings her family pulled us in, made efforts to be with us, we took up their time and attention. After a while those gatherings became more rare as her siblings scattered out, married and built their lives elsewhere. Her resentments of us, of being a parent, was much more obvious as we grew older, and honestly I think her siblings wanted as little to do with her as possible. They were aware of the abuse but admittedly there was little they or anyone else could do - she saw to it we were pretty isolated other than school.

Looking back at that - more than anything I see neglect and abuse, near abandonment. Children were to be seen and not heard, be her version of presentable at all times and there's hell to pay when we weren't. We were allowed, knew no boundaries - mother could and did barge in and go through our rooms at will, shutting down any and all activity, flipping on lights and yelling from the time we woke up in the morning. None of us have happy loving memories of her, there's a lot of trauma whether our own or witnessing what she did to others. We were deeply entrenched in that surface "all is well you don't tell what goes on at home" mentality.

Wow. I wonder how we survived her with any sanity intact. It's no wonder I'm avoidant, near hermit at times. I don't have social anxiety or fear, but just really want to be left alone so much of the time outside of work. I get antsy and resentful when pushed beyond my inner activity limits. I can and do regularly turn off and ignore any and all attempts to reach me unless needing to assure someone I'm all right. 

What's really unfortunate and sad really, is that we're all four in our 60s now seeing all the time wasted with her. Trying to reach her on some reasonable level, trying to have any kind of decent relationship - and she never was interested in that. That's depressing. I've been at *this* here at Out of the FOG and other previous support communities for a large chunk of that, trying to find solid ground. Rereading some of my own posts is an exercise in futility itself, trying to grasp what the hell made me ever believe I could be a part of her life, that she wanted me there. It's a gut punch, y'all, I don't mind saying.