Out of the FOG

*** Trigger warning ***

Update.

My uBPD/NPD sister called me yesterday. I didn't answer the phone. She left a message on the answerphone. We've not had any contact since our elderly mother passed away nearly two years ago. I had cared for her for years.

I heard my sister sobbing saying that she's ill and wanted me to contact her adult daughter. I put my fingers in my ears so that I couldn't hear the rest of her message and I've not played it back yet.

I was in a panic state sending me right back to all the dramas and crisis situations that I've witnessed over decades. She sounded so pathetic and in need.

I'm telling myself that I don't do "idiot compassion" any more. My inner child wants to talk to her but my adult voice says that I've done enough and can't take any more abuse.

Her daughter obviously doesn't want to talk to her. It's between them to sort out, not me. My sister used to frequently get me to intervene to get other family members to talk to her, that was before I realised what I was doing being trapped in the FOG.

I'm not doing well myself. I'm very depressed and have been taking antidepressants for a year. Coping with the pandemic alone has been difficult psychologically. Coping with bereavement has been difficult as well.

She sounded SO pathetic and helpless. It's her usual tactic for getting money out of me. I'm such a sucker. She eventually threatens suicide if she doesn't get what she wants. Then I give in and give her what she wants for a quiet life. She can loudly rage hysterically as well for hours.

I thought I was doing well until this phone call. Now I'm a gibbering wreck. My mind goes into overdrive trying to protect me from harm. Panic stations. Make sure the front door is secure. It is. Make sure all the windows are closed. They are. Don't answer the door if she visits. I won't.

This is ridiculous. I now seem so pathetic myself. My mind is saying "What if? What if? What if?" all the time.

I've endured decades of abuse from her. I've told myself that I'm not going back to that ever again. I've had enough.

Adrenaline was surging around my body. My heart was beating fast. Fight, flight, faint, fawn or freeze may all happen. I've experienced all of those situations in the past.

Yesterday I thought I was going to have a normal boring, quiet day until she phoned me.

I have support from my siblings, they are not PD. None of us want to have her back in our lives. We are done.

She can appear to be SO loving and kind. Then she can change and be SO cruel and abusive, swearing, shouting and raging.

Her tactic is to love bomb people into submission. So often I've fallen for that tactic. Now I'm wise to that. It's an easy trap for me to fall into, only to get hurt again time after time. Then will come the devalue and discard phase then the love bombing will start all over again. I've educated myself about what happens. I can recognise all the behaviours for what they really are. She can appear to be so sad and lonely. I can get hoovered in.

No doubt she's found some other suckers to help her over the previous months. She's very good at finding new best friends whom she can pour her troubles onto, saying that she's been a victim to get their sympathy and support. They don't know what she's really like.

I'm telling myself that there is NOT going to be a new start of our relationship. I don't want to see or hear from her ever again. I'm trying to be strong and not relent but it's so difficult.

I'm so surprised that she's not been on the phone to me every day during the pandemic complaining about all her physical health issues. Before the pandemic she would frequently complain about her lungs, saying that she couldn't breathe and coughing up blood. Every month she would have a new fatal illness.

I've not been active on the forum for nearly two years because I get triggered by all sorts of things. So I decided not to be so involved. I haven't been able to get to any mental health carers groups because they weren't meeting in person. I occasionally participated in a few Zoom meetings when I was capable.

I've not watched terrestrial television for nearly two years. I am careful about what I watch online. I get triggered by any sad news sending me into a spiral of outrage and uselessness. Any humanitarian atrocity upsets me greatly. I don't listen to the radio in case they talk about the news. It's been difficult to avoid.

I'm so grateful about being double vaccinated but I am hypersensitive to coming across any people not wearing masks. I can get terrified. Not only of me getting infected by them but by me possibly passing anything onto them.

I had a restless night. I didn't get much sleep worrying about my sister. I'm a kind, loving, compassionate person. I tell myself that I need to be compassionate towards myself first. I need to put my needs first and not get abused over and over ever again.

I need to stay calm, strong and resilient. I need a whole army on my side to protect me from my sister. How sad am I?!

I recognise the symptoms of CPTSD. Ongoing turmoil and trauma over decades have taken their toll of my equilibrium. Now is the time to let her go but I can't forget what has happened. The body keeps score. I am living every day with pain from sciatica. It often flares up during stressful situations. I have to be so careful about what I do. Simple physical tasks can set it all off. It can be excruciatingly painful like sharp knives stabbing me in my lower back.

I've booked up to attend a couple of mental health support group meetings held online later today. I recognise that I need support.

Apologies for the long rant. It helps me to write things down. I know you all understand.

Best wishes to you all.

X

I'm so sorry that you are going through this Guitarman.  It's been two years already, wow.  It's just normal behavior that she triggered you. Don't beat yourself up for that reaction after having been through that for years.  You worked so hard to go nc and did well, do not forget that. :yes:

I understand that the pandemic was hard cause I'm in the same boat.  I also got vaccinated but am afraid to socially do things, especially being 65 yrs old.  I lost friendships and the ones I have left hardly ever call or even less visit in my backyard when they live close by.  I am very anxious these days because of several factors, having been through difficult times in the past year. I used to self-medicate and do not anymore so it's another hill to climb.  All this just to say that I get what you are saying and feeling.   It's tough when we haven't learned our coping skills early in life.  Work in progress

Best wishes, take care of yourself and thanks for sharing :)

Hi guitarman - I am so thankful you reached out and shared what you are experiencing. You are already past the first step of realizing this is a trauma response and actively speaking back to the inner critic and reclaiming the truth about who you are in this world.

Quote from: guitarmanHer tactic is to love bomb people into submission. So often I've fallen for that tactic. Now I'm wise to that. It's an easy trap for me to fall into, only to get hurt again time after time. Then will come the devalue and discard phase then the love bombing will start all over again. I've educated myself about what happens. I can recognise all the behaviours for what they really are. She can appear to be so sad and lonely. I can get hoovered in.

You know the tactics. You recognize them and have done all you can to keep your sister, who is not a safe person for you, out and away from the balance and peace you are working to achieve in your life and relationships. That takes strength and determination. You are not going to be lured in again. You are safe! You are in full control of who does and does not have access to your life. It just may take your body and mind and a bit to begin to believe and cooperate with that truth.

We are here and understand this is very hard. Sending strength to you!

Hi Guitarman - I think what you are feeling is very understandable. Please don't be hard on yourself. I think writing about it here or in personal journals is very helpful to sort it out. 

Certainly hearing from a sister you have been NC with for two years would likely stir up some feelings. Even seeing their phone number on caller ID makes my stomach clench, and the sound of their voice in a message echoes in my head. I always feel like my FOO puts out so much negative energy and it must land somewhere. I agree, the body keeps score. Your health and wellbeing are important.           
         
What comes across to me is how much clarity you have about this. You know how you feel. You know where your boundaries are. Great for you. Please be kind to yourself. I think perhaps the key aspect is not so much in what they have done, but rather how we choose to respond after such an event. You matter. 

I'm sorry you are going through all this.  After being NC for 2 years I can understand how traumatic it would be to out of the blue receive a phone call and message and on top of that its a message filled with drama.

The thing I got about the message is that she didn't call asking you to call her, which would be semi normal.  She called asking you to call her adult daughter, so your thoughts about this are correct.  She is trying to use you as a flying monkey to get her adult daughter to call her.  This is the drama and negativity you walked away from.

Even a friendly phone message would have been unsettling after all that time.  That's the thing these relationships trigger us and stir up all that negativity and it takes time to come back down from that.  Be gentle with yourself and be kind.

The thing is you already understand that the adrenaline is rushing through your body. You recognise the symptoms of CPTSD.  That is pretty awesome to have that awareness.  This means you can start to work on relaxing your body.  Its a start, what things have you done in the past that worked to relax that physical stress, start there.

It will take time but you have strong boundaries in place.  Watch out for that negative self talk because you were rattled by the phone call, I know I would have been rattled with a phone call like that, especially one that is out of the blue like this one was.  Its unsettling and does take time to return to feeling ok again.  Just remember that its ok to take that time for yourself.

Wow Guitarman, you are so strong and have so much wisdom and self -awareness in this situation.  I know you don't feel strong as many of us don't when we get a rogue phone call like that, but you are able to see it and call it for what it is.  I came across a quote not too long ago that said, "When the past comes calling, let it go to voicemail. It has nothing new to say."    Isn't that so true?

Maybe it would help to go for a walk or literally stand up and shake it off, spray the room with some good air freshener to change the vibe in the house. Anything, to get your body to come back down from the shock. 

Be patient and kind with yourself.  There is nothing wrong with how you reacted. That is normal under such a hard situation.   It sounds like you''ve got the worst of it behind you because you can clearly see it for what it is. It may just be time to learn some new self care strategies moving forward to ward off some of the effects as best you can.  Albeit easier said than done. It is definitely something we have to practice as they can be good at catching us off guard.  Hang in there and take care. :hug:

My heart goes out to you guitarman.
Self -care is all important now. Keep strong.
Well done not getting into the triangulation. That's her stuff, not yours.

It's the trauma bonding that makes us feel like reaching out whenever they get like this. We think we can 'fix' things, then all will be better and our family will function., But it's a poisoned and rotten apple- don't take a bite.
Jerry Wise says to try and move away from feeling our reactions. He advocates not to respond emotionally, and to think of our family member as just an acquaintance. It helps to release the hold of years of enmeshment to think this way.

We're not obliged, to do anything, say anything, or even to feel upset and worry for that family member. We're also not obliged to feel any guilt or shame. Nope. Nada.
It took me a long time to get to this place. You've choices here, remember that.
I'm so sorry you've not been on the site due to being triggered- me too sometimes! Take care and here are some hugs🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗

Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm feeling better today. I've taken part in several online mental health support groups and shared what has happened. We also did some Mindfulness meditations.

One person suggested that I block my sister on my landline. It hadn't even occurred to me to do that. So that's an option I have. I never did it in the past because it would have ended up with her visiting me and her getting angry with me that I had blocked her. Sometimes there are simple options that we don't ever consider because we have been trained to accept the abuse. We dare not put in boundaries to protect ourselves in case that upsets the abuser!

Thank you for the quote "When the past comes calling. Let it go to voicemail. It has nothing new to say". It really sums up what has happened and how I reacted. I'm pleased that I didn't respond.

I realise that I still have a long way to go in my recovery journey. I can get so easily triggered by seemingly innocuous things.

Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome needs to be more widely recognised and talked about. I'm glad to do what I can to raise awareness about it and will continue to do so.

I've been listening to a narcissistic abuse recovery podcast and it all makes sense. I'm not able to follow everything as I have such a bad memory and poor concentration but certain things really helped me. I need to listen and follow several mentors as maintenance to continue my NC with my uBPD/NPD sister and not feel guilty about it. No wonder I'm so depressed as I'm also coping with bereavement and the pandemic doesn't help either!

The podcast explains why my body is trying to stay safe. It's doing what it can to keep me away from any more danger. That explains a lot. It's a trauma response. I've shut down. I can't take any more abuse. I've gone NC but my sister still rages in my head. I can barely function day to day. I may appear to others to be OK but I'm not. I put on a brave coping face, even laughing and joking. I keep a smile in my pocket and put it on around others.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Be safe. X

That resonates with me. It's my own experience too.
Abuse plants a toxic voice in our heads. I've got one too.
I can hear and feel their anger ( my Nbro and Nsis and various enablers and flying monkeys) at the NC. My actions are shocking to them.
It's a formidable feeling.
But I'm stronger. 
I tell it to pipe down. I tell it it's got no power here, never did have, if I'd only realised sooner.
Work in progress of course. I forgive myself if I lapse, and believe the things it says about me. But I do this less and less, and it's a wonderful feeling to shake off all of that unfair pressure, the guilt and shame they need to smear us with in order for them to feel better about themselves.

Guitarman, counter that raging with a smart,  'Shut up!'
Then laugh, and ignore it.

It's just a leftover aroma of a painful time, which you have now left.
I'm sending warm hugs and warm wishes.

Thanks.

X

Now is the time to practise lots of self care.
Everyone on here respects you so much. You've helped us with your advice  over and over.
But that's not the  only reason people on here care - they care because you matter, and you don't deserve to feel like this. 

GM:

Reading your post... it almost seems like.... you're not sure you believe you're done witih "idiot" compassion.

Maybe you have unconscious beliefs...... requiring tending to...... with a good trauma informed T who can lead you through it with economy of motion?

It almost seems like you're worried your sister's presense and loud disordered opinions count more than the lessons you've learned, the truth you've accepted and thoughtful plans, you've put in place, for dealing with your pd sister.

The panic is reactivity, btw.  You body and brain pathways' default setttings when anything PD sis pops up.

It's a biochemical hijack.... nothing you can control.  It only gets worse when one attemtps to think their way out of it, IME.

There are ways to sneak up underneath the biochemical hijack and unhook it.....to activate your parasympathetic nervous system (PNS) so your fight or flight mode can be turned off.

Deep breathing...
4 seconds in...
hold 4 seconds....
out 4 seconds is a good start, IME.

You can push on doorjambs with all your might while thinking about your breathing.  The body wants to ACT when in fight or flight.... sometimes we can't even breathe our way out, so this can be very helpful.

Noticing the neutral feeling places in your body and breathing into them... focused on them.

Noticing the pain/pressure/tension in the body and breathing into it.  Put adjectives to it..... burning?  Throbbing?  Give it a number from 1 to 10, 10 being unbearable.  Breathe into it for 10 breaths, while focusing on the pain...... then check it. If it's getting better, continue breathing into it and checking it till it's gone or stops improving.

If it stops improving, focus on a neutral part of your body for a while...... then check your surroudings.  Notice the colors and shapes arond you.  Notice the sounds and scents.  Notice the space above, beside and below you. 

I always felt better when I breathed that spaciousness INTO the pain in my body.... usually chest, throat or back area, in my case.

With practice, the ability to be SO very KIND to yourself....
by dropping all judgment and replacing it with curiosity.....one can learn to create a moment or 2 BEFORE the reactivity takes us into fight or flight.

it creates a small space where choice lives.

Learning to create those few seconds to choose is about shifting from reactivity and fight or flight and changing it into the ability to be more responsive..... avoiding the chemical hijack and distress...... finding there's joy in those spaces and it's been there all the time.

We just forgot it was there.

Keep breathing, GM.

You deserve to put up healthy boundaries and you're obligated to enforce them, IMO.

You don't need anyone's permission and approval
but
your
own.

It's going to be OK.

I promise.

Guitarman,

This is a super great video from Jerry wise called "Stopping Reactions with Emotional Circuit Breakers." I've listened to it several times and every time, I hear something new and profoundly helpful. It is a video I have to listen to periodically to keep myself in check. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxt4OwbF2Fk

So sorry you are experiencing this. You have so much awareness that your trauma/ CPSTD has been  triggered and yet we all know how horrid it is to be right in the middle of that place .

Your body has an intelligence which is speaking to you in the form of the physical discomfort/ panic response....it is an internal warning system and it is trying to keep you safe. I think it is so hard when stuck in that place to hear what my body is trying to communicate ..coz I'm am so focused on getting rid of these horrible sensations.  What helps me is to honour it in some way and thank it for showing up and doing its job trying to protect me. The reason it is shouting so loud is because the threat is REAL. After that period of NC and this episode of hoovering your body is quite rightly going into full on all out emergency mode.

You spoke about you sister seeming sad and lonely, and how you thought you were done with  idiot compassion. Thats always the hook right there, the appeal to our compassion. I used to think of this in black and white ways - she is sounding sad and lonely ( evokes compassion in me ...leads to feelings of guilt , sadness , general FOG) or she is sounding sad and lonely ( is she putting this on as a trick / a hoover etc etc ). Either way , my approach now is more " yes she may be sad and lonely " BUT. As in this may also be true that she feels sad sad lonely but it is still 1) not my responsibility to take it on and 2) not my responsibility to fix.
So I do not need to feel guilty about it. I also don't need to overthink it. Sure I can feel sad for her that her choices about her life have lead her to the feelings she has - but leave it there. It can be a very subtle way of sliding back into that headspace of FOG otherwise.
And you know where that leads.
The trauma from these relationships causes us to experience these periods of self doubt from time to time. Catch it and send it on its way. Sometimes I find it necessary to look back over journals to remember just how bad it was. The passage of time sometimes puts a hazy glow on things especially when your compassion is being triggered.
To be fully compassionate in this situation IMO means being compassionate to yourself first and foremost. No more. I read somewhere recently that sometimes the kindest , most spiritual thing we can do for everyone is a fearless " no". That is true compassion for both of you. An abusive relationship is an abusive relationship. You have got great advice from others here already.
Sending strength.

**** Trigger warning ****

Thanks everyone. I really value your experiences, support and opinions. We are not alone.

I'm doing OK(ish). I get triggered by lots of things. I suppose it will take a long time not to be, if ever. NOT being in contact and NOT hearing all about my uBPD/NPD sister's constant pleas for help, her imagined fatal illnesses and death dramas is my new normal. It's taking time to adjust. She still has the potential to be in contact or appear suddenly so I'm not fully detached yet. I still am very wary.

Being around my sister was like being next to someone who could jump off a cliff at any time. I could never relax in case she tried to or threatened to. It still feels like that although she's not here. It's the FOG ties that still bind me to her. Its the remnants of her that still remain to haunt me.

Being the rescuer, the problem solver, the calm consoler all my life takes time to change. I'm conscious about NOT doing that with other people. I'd rather be a lighthouse than a lifeboat ever again. Others may perceive that as not caring but they don't always know my history. It's about putting in boundaries to care for myself.

I have visions of my sister shouting and screaming. She would visit shaking with fear and anxiety about her financial problems. She would collapse in a foetal position wailing and sobbing until she got what she wanted. If she didn't she would shout about how she was going to end her life as she said she had no one who cared for her and so what's the point of living. I live with those memories constantly. It's all trauma.

No one else really understands what it has been like, unless they have experienced this for themselves. All the time I was trying to protect our elderly, frail parents from her abusive behaviour. They have both since passed away. More trauma.

I keep saying to myself that I never want to see or hear from my sister ever again and that she is just someone that I used to know. It gets easier every time I say it out loud.

I feel compassion for her. I'm glad that I still do but I have to remind myself that I have to be compassionate for my own mental and physical wellbeing first and honour that. I matter too. I remind myself that you don't have to set yourself on fire in order to keep someone else warm. I learnt that from this forum.

I have learnt to replace "should", "could", "must" or "need to" with "want to". What do I "want to" do? The answer is usually "don't do anything, you've already done enough".

I could go on and on so I'll stop here. I have support and talk about my feelings more that I ever did years ago. It's good to talk.

X

So glad that you are breaking the silence. And so good to read that you are taking care of yourself.

 Your words;

"I feel compassion for her. I'm glad that I still do but I have to remind myself that I have to be compassionate for my own mental and physical wellbeing first and honour that. I matter too. I remind myself that you don't have to set yourself on fire in order to keep someone else warm. I learnt that from this forum."

Yes. 100per cent.
And when we withdraw the darn idiot compassion, that's when we are actually showing true compassion both for ourselves,and actually for the abusive  sibling too.  We stop enabling their behaviour.
It's true that they may search for someone else to fill the gap we leave, but there's a chance we stop it, either partially or entirely. Then they must look to their own responsibilities at least a little bit.

In my view it simply helps everybody, even though it doesn't feel good AT ALL and can feel very VERY painful.
BUT it does get easier!
As Jerry Wise says, we need always to stay on our side of the tennis net. 😎

Thanks for your reply.

I can remember my uBPD/NPD sister shouting "WE ARE FAMILY!". In other words we are supposed to take all her abuse over and over again because she is related to me. No! Not any more. I wouldn't accept it from anyone else.

I accidentally deleted her answer phone message she left last week. I hadn't played it back. I don't know why I was keeping it. So I've done myself a favour by getting rid of it. Well done me!

I've been for a long walk down by the river near me with one other non PD sibling and their small children. We didn't mention our sister ONCE! Usually what she has recently said or done dominates our conversation. I purposely didn't mentioned that she had rang me recently.

It does feel like the elephant in the room that we don't talk about but we know how each of us feels about her.

I suppose I shall be free of her torment when I realise that I no longer think about her.

I saw this online today and I can identify with it.

"When you cut off someone from your life, they will never tell people the full story, they will only tell them the part that makes you look bad and them innocent."

It seems the problem is......

we care what other people think, IME.

It's easier to put this down when we realize people deserving of our care won't automatically believe the PD story and will come to us for clarification before jumping to conclusions,IME.

Anyone who falls for the PD's chaos/confusion manufacture is likely not someone who likes us or can be trusted, IME.

Sometimes they're just people who enjoy gossip and drama, so aren't people I need in my life upon reflection anyway.

My T said upset and anxiety are usually tied to my struggle with my struggle to accept something going on in my life.  I find she's usually spot on, upon reflection.

After decades of guilt and shame and obligation that had me over functioning for the borderlines and narcissists in my FOO, I discovered that all the helpfulness in the world, ultimately wouldn't 'help' or  win their approval.

For years I believed I was responsible for the happiness of every member of my FOO. This was the role I was given.  My efforts ranged far and wide, and the pressure was heavy and constant.

What I got for my efforts, was their  continual criticism, their contempt and their disdain.

Let that soak in
What I got was their contempt and disdain. I wasn't respected. I wasn't appreciated. I often got told I had made the situation worse. I was frequently ostracised for months for perceived slights.

We are set up to fail.

So there isn't really any point.

They don't want a solution. They want drama, emotional supply though the 'poor me' syndrome. Then later on they again get emotional supply through pointing the finger at us.
It's cyclical and it's toxic. That's why it can feel as if we are spiralling downward and we can't breathe.

It's all so they don't have to deal with their own stuff in any sort of mature way.

My parents would say that about family all the time, that family was so important, that weddings, funerals etc are the moments that are really important to be there for one another and yet it was those times when they acted the most atrocious, did things that were unlike what a family should be.  Your sister throws out the family line because that's what brings on our guilt because we want family, nice family however it seems to be a one way street.  You give your sister the family that she wants a normal loving family and yet you yourself don't get one in return.

Self compassion is so important.  It took me a long time to realise that I was thinking about everyone else's thoughts and feelings and I didn't really think about my own.  Of course I thought that I was hurt or upset but I didn't really think underneath that, that I was worthy of having my family act loving toward me.  Self compassion is knowing that you need to take care of yourself.

Thanks for all the replies and support.

My sister just called me but I didn't answer the phone. She didn't leave a message.

I know what she's after.

Now I'm all on edge wondering if she'll visit. The anticipatory dread, hyper vigilance and flashbacks have started. I won't let her in or speak to her if she does visit. I'll ignore her and pretend I'm not here. 

I've got a mental health support group online meeting booked for later in a few hours which will be good, if I'm up to it. They are a lovely group of people.

It will soon be the two year anniversary of our mother passing away. I still can't believe that it's happened. I miss her so much. I've had hardly any contact with my sister since then and I don't want to have any further contact with her. I'm adamant about that.

I'm OK just ruminating, as ever. I'll do some Mindfulness meditations and distract myself but that's sometimes difficult to do when in panic mode.

I've done so well for setting boundaries and not contacting my sister for so long. I thought I had made progress but apparently not as much as I thought. I need to be gentle with myself and do as much as I can. I'm doing the best I can do.

This is what decades of trauma and abuse does. One unanswered phone call and I freak out.

At least you're aware of you're reactivity, gm.

Now you have the opportunity to breathe and perhaps cultivate more choice.....outside the reactivity, creating ability to respond and be responsive...to yourself and everyone around you.

Keep breathing.

Its really hard not to react though, one phone call and it can just bring it all back.  I would be exactly the same if my sister called me, I would be out of sorts for a few weeks over it.  Give yourself time, you will work through it.

@nanotech what you wrote really impacted with me 'What I got for my efforts, was their  continual criticism, their contempt and their disdain'.  It is so true, it doesn't matter what I do I have always had criticism, contempt and disdain. 

As I read it I really felt that I'm happy to move on because that's freedom, understanding that nothing I do matters, it will be criticised no matter what. 

Thanks everyone.

I'm having vivid nightmares about my uBPD/NPD sister. It's not surprising after all the decades of abuse I've endured from her.

I've not been in contact with her for two years but she still torments me in my head.

Do you talk to your abuser? In her absence I calmly talk to my sister. I state why I'm not in contact with her. I talk about my feelings. She shouts back at me that I don't care about her. It's what she used to do when I didn't do what she wanted.

I'm trying to look after myself. I am living with depression so every day is different and mostly difficult to do the most simplest of tasks. I'm taking antidepressants, when I remember to take them.

I have joined a daily mental health support group online. We begin by doing Mindfulness meditations then we talk about our feelings. It's very supportive.

Today I'm SO tired. Most days are like this. Yesterday I went for a walk around a local park. I take photos on my iPhone whenever I go out. It's the only thing at the moment that brings me any joy. I have severe negative thinking about everything so I think that the photos aren't very good even though I get good comments about them online.

I can't seem to shift this negative thinking pattern. It's all part of depression and CPTSD.

I learned a new phrase "Depressed equals deep rest" so that's what I'm doing.

Quote from: guitarman on September 05, 2021, 08:32:29 AM
I saw this online today and I can identify with it.

"When you cut off someone from your life, they will never tell people the full story, they will only tell them the part that makes you look bad and them innocent."

Yes this is so true. This is happened in my life too.
It's a big step, when you decide to stop worrying about all of that nonsense. The threat of damaging my reputation through smearing, was their biggest and last hold on me.
For a long time after I had become enlightened to the dysfunction in my family, I carried on humouring them, even flattering them.
I thought I was 'being the bigger person', but really I was still playing the same old game, and further enabling them to eventually attack me again.
I realised that though I'd stopped fighting,  I was still 'fawning'. (fight, flight, freeze, fawn). In this way, I was still clinging  my ascribed role of fixer/ scapegoat. I was still giving them narcissistic supply.
I'm sending my best and most positive thoughts to you.
We are not born thinking negatively. Newborns  only have  two fears, loud noises and a fear of falling. All other fears are learned. Some are healthy, but many fearful thoughts are implanted and embedded  by toxic people. Toxic narcissists have no self worth deep down themselves. They've created a false self, which feeds off others putting them down in order to try to raise their own fragile self esteem.  This is why they can't stop.

Negative thoughts are not you. They've been placed there through past abuse. When we stop the ongoing  abuse it's a major step, but then the past abuse can become horrific negative self -criticism.

When I get like this, (it's work in progress and sometimes I still allow it to rent space in my head), I always challenge it as the imposter it is. It isn't easy to do this, and sometimes it can take time. But I keep on keeping on.
I know I'm   competent, caring, calm, empathic, honest and very loving. I'm not having anyone else convince  me otherwise! Not no more.

That voice is literally not you. It's them. 

I love that you walk and take photos. Believe the people that are telling you they like them!  They SEE you and they appreciate you.
 
Sometimes when I interact with a family member I sort of deem 'ok' ( she's not really)  I spot footprints of my brother's gossip in her replies. - that's how I know it''s happening.  When I see it I take it as reassurance that I've done the right thing in stepping back. Its nice when I can I can spot his reactivity and his emotion- led  criticism of me. I  have a chuckle at the absurd spin he's clearly put on my decision to calmly and with love, tell him I wasn't going to converse through texting any more, unless my dad was seriously ill. (no more awful finger pointing drama texts, followed by his then ghosting me).
In the past I would have worried and been very upset and self critical. Not now.

I have some extended family members who aren't toxic- so this is where I go now.
I don't discuss the issues with them - and so far they haven't been enlisted as flying monkeys. When I went NC and VLC  with FOO I was prepared to lose them too. But I haven't.
It's this unsaid stuff that is a validation that they  may realise some things too, about my FOO.

I'm glad you are resting. I like to rest too, and  I meditate.
When I do that, I know I'm loved, just as I am. I clear my mind by breathing deeply, and looking for the space between the thoughts. That's me, that space. It's you too.  If thoughts jump up, try to view them without emotion- observe don't  absorb, then move away back into your true self, detach, and  just breathe. All the best, Guitarman

Thank you.

I'm too tired right now to post any more than that. X

Guitarman, please take a little time to read over your posts to others. You have it within you, so maybe find a way to start applying that care and compassion to yourself, understand that you need it as much as they do.

Depression is an ugly big black dog to carry - it's exhausting even when it's not "as bad" some days as others. Triggers find us out of nowhere and we learn yet again that the only way out is through. We work through it, pray through it, even sleep when we can. Then there's a glimmer of something brighter, some laughter or at least a smile. And it's still hard.

Years ago a friend on a similar board reached out to me during a really dark time, asked me to think through what I can do [take the focus off my ruminating]. Her advice to get me through: Get out of bed and make that bed, every day. Take a shower or bath and put on clean clothes, every day. Put on shoes too [I don't wear shoes inside, so I declined this one!]. Eat something nutritious, even something small, every day. While chores pile up around you and you don't have the energy or will to attack them, pick one thing and commit yourself to that for one hour - clean the bathroom or kitchen, start on the laundry, vacuum a room, etc. At the end of that hour, decide either to continue and finish the job or do something else. Either way, look a the progress you made in that one hour! Take a break or take a nap up to an hour, then pick a new chore. Maybe turn on some music you like. Go outside, even if only to carry out that bag of garbage from the kitchen - take a walk if/when the spirit moves you. The thing is to focus on progress, doing good things for yourself and your surroundings.

"Do not let the behaviour of others destroy your inner peace." - Dalai Lama

Peace, friend. :hug:

I agree with moglow on everything.
Guitarman, please don't feel the need to reply at length each time.
Rest and recuperate, and feel well soon. 
Thinking of you, and sending you my best heartfelt wishes.  :bighug: :banaaana: :Monsta: :elephant: :party:

X

Guitarman, you have been a beacon of light and a source of solidarity and comfort to me so many times.   I don't have advice, just a wish for peace and serenity for you.    :bighug:

Thank you all so much. I really appreciate this community.

I have good energy at the moment so I'm able to reply. It's how I am.

I have joined an online Zoom support group and visit most days. It's helped me a lot just to be able to talk to others facing similar situations.

My negative thinking has really got a grip and it's sometimes so difficult to counteract it's control. Mindfulness guided meditations help me to disengage and obverse my thoughts non judgementally and calmly. I surf the thought waves.

I'm so drained of energy most of the time. I don't want to do anything. It's not like me.

I've been taking antidepressants and I notice if I miss taking them, which I often do as I have such a bad memory.

It's been two years since my mother passed away. My father passed away thirteen years ago. To me it seems like yesterday.

Bereavement, coping with my parent's health issues including caring for my mother 24/7 who was living with Alzheimer's disease and being consumed by my uBPD/NPD sister's abusive behaviour for decades have all taken their toll on my mental and physical health.

"Be gentle with yourself. You are doing the best that you can" I tell myself. It helps but it's difficult to change long held habits and thought patterns. Letting go and letting be are difficult.

My sister's adult children seem to be thriving. Their welfare was always my main concern when they were younger. They aren't in contact with me often these days but I presume the best. They are both in loving relationships and in work.

I live on my own. I have very supportive siblings, other than my sister whom I've not had contact with for two years and never want to see again.

I keep ruminating about the past but that's all part of grief, depression and CPTSD. I'm trying to live more in the present by doing Mindfulness meditations, walking and taking photos and reminding myself that I'm safe.

I wish you all well on your own journey of recovery. It's not easy, just keep sharing.

Thank you all.

X

Guitarman,
I'm so glad you are feeling better. I'm sending lots of hugs-and best wishes too. 
It's a lot to deal with, and you're doing it well.
Yes, I'll keep posting too- I wouldn't be without this website and this forum.

This is beautiful.

Quote from: hhaw on August 28, 2021, 07:13:14 PM
GM:

Reading your post... it almost seems like.... you're not sure you believe you're done witih "idiot" compassion.

Maybe you have unconscious beliefs...... requiring tending to...... with a good trauma informed T who can lead you through it with economy of motion?

It almost seems like you're worried your sister's presense and loud disordered opinions count more than the lessons you've learned, the truth you've accepted and thoughtful plans, you've put in place, for dealing with your pd sister.

The panic is reactivity, btw.  You body and brain pathways' default setttings when anything PD sis pops up.

It's a biochemical hijack.... nothing you can control.  It only gets worse when one attemtps to think their way out of it, IME.

There are ways to sneak up underneath the biochemical hijack and unhook it.....to activate your parasympathetic nervous system (PNS) so your fight or flight mode can be turned off.

Deep breathing...
4 seconds in...
hold 4 seconds....
out 4 seconds is a good start, IME.

You can push on doorjambs with all your might while thinking about your breathing.  The body wants to ACT when in fight or flight.... sometimes we can't even breathe our way out, so this can be very helpful.

Noticing the neutral feeling places in your body and breathing into them... focused on them.

Noticing the pain/pressure/tension in the body and breathing into it.  Put adjectives to it..... burning?  Throbbing?  Give it a number from 1 to 10, 10 being unbearable.  Breathe into it for 10 breaths, while focusing on the pain...... then check it. If it's getting better, continue breathing into it and checking it till it's gone or stops improving.

If it stops improving, focus on a neutral part of your body for a while...... then check your surroudings.  Notice the colors and shapes arond you.  Notice the sounds and scents.  Notice the space above, beside and below you. 

I always felt better when I breathed that spaciousness INTO the pain in my body.... usually chest, throat or back area, in my case.

With practice, the ability to be SO very KIND to yourself....
by dropping all judgment and replacing it with curiosity.....one can learn to create a moment or 2 BEFORE the reactivity takes us into fight or flight.

it creates a small space where choice lives.

Learning to create those few seconds to choose is about shifting from reactivity and fight or flight and changing it into the ability to be more responsive..... avoiding the chemical hijack and distress...... finding there's joy in those spaces and it's been there all the time.

We just forgot it was there.

Keep breathing, GM.

You deserve to put up healthy boundaries and you're obligated to enforce them, IMO.

You don't need anyone's permission and approval
but
your
own.

It's going to be OK.

I promise.

Guitarman I read your post and really related to it.  I think there are times when it creeps up on us and its simply too much.  The stress from the past suddenly comes rushing in.  The exhaustion for me is the worst. I am glad you are feeling better.  I would say it helps to eat nutritionally at this time.  I also find getting outside helps, even if just to sit in the sun, even just for a bit.  Keep telling yourself that you are safe.  Remind yourself that you never have to see your PD sister again.  I have found telling myself that I am safe helps calm me.  I suppose find those small things that work for you and keep at them.

Be compassionate towards yourself.  Our bodies just need a little rest and then we keep putting one foot in front of the other and get to the other side. 

Its ok if you are too tired today or tomorrow, it won't last.  Don't feel the need to have to do everything if you need to rest, rest.  I sometimes find I have so much negative self talk when I am too exhausted to do anything and this is where I need self compassion the most.

One thing that helps me a lot is reminding myself that I don't have to put up with any of it anymore, its done.  Just keep reminding yourself that you will no longer be seeing your sister, its done and over.  She can't hurt you again.

I hope you continue feeling better, its rough when we have days like this, you aren't alone. 

Thanks everyone.

I've taken a break from being online. It can become overwhelming and triggering. I haven't watched much television for two years for that reason.

I went food shopping yesterday. For me that's a major achievement at the moment. I didn't buy too much as I have a painful back and I had to walk home carrying it.

Everything is such an effort. Even thinking and doing simple tasks.

Keep calm. Keep strong. Stay safe.

X

Yep I have really stopped reading a lot of news because the negativity was too much.  Online I have stopped reading numerous sites and given up on social media.  I am trying to be more aware of doing things that make me feel better.  I love Xmas holiday movies so at the moment I am watching a ton. I like to zone out and just enjoy watching them.  Are you still taking photographs? 

Glad you are feeling better.  I'm sure a sore back won't be helping with your fatigue either.

As others have said pick one thing you need to do, just shower and do that.  No matter how much you fight against doing it just do that one thing.  You will feel better after. 

Keep telling yourself you are safe.  You may feel like you will be in this forever but you aren't going to be, you can't see it now but you are going to come through this, you really are.  You may not believe this now or feel like it is even possible but at some point a crack of light will come in and that crack will get bigger.  Just keep putting one foot in front of the other, you will get there. 

I am sending virtual hugs your way.

Thank you. That really helps.

X

I want to thank everyone here for your support over the time I have been posting on the forum.

I have gone no contact with my uBPD/NPD sister for two years. I will not be contacting her over Christmas. I have not sent her a card or a present or any messages. I no longer wish to see her ever again. She is never going to change and I can't change her.

I will be spending the time with my other supportive siblings and their families. Our sister has not been invited.

Our parents have passed away so Christmases are different now. At least we shall not have the constant fear of our sister disrupting our time together. We never knew how she was going to behave.

She's still in my thoughts constantly. I have nightmares about her decades of abusive behaviour and get triggered easily. I feel guilty about not contacting her but I have to look after my own well-being first. I wish her well from afar.

I am still living with depression and have had some setbacks recently. The Covid-19 situation is very worrying here in the UK, as everywhere else. I've had my booster and am so glad that I have.

I hope that you all have a safe and peaceful time whatever you are doing, if you are celebrating Christmas or not. Please keep calm, set boundaries and have a joyful time if you can. It's OK to be happy even when someone else isn't. Get help if you need to.

Abuse thrives in the darkness. We all need to shine a light on it wherever it occurs.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe.

My best wishes to you all.

X

Hi Guitarman. You say 'I hope that you all have a safe and peaceful time whatever you are doing, if you are celebrating Christmas or not. Please keep calm, set boundaries and have a joyful time if you can. It's OK to be happy even when someone else isn't. Get help if you need to.'

Very well said. Thank you. Same to you. Hope you enjoy the holiday with your supportive siblings. 

 

 

Thank you for your comment.

I'm staying with one of my siblings and their family at their house. Our uBPD/NPD sister hasn't been invited. It's been such a different atmosphere here than ever it used to be being with our sister. There was always tension being in her company, never knowing if she would explode in a tirade of abuse at any time or not or being lectured to and listening to her talk incessantly, being careful not to disagree or criticise some of her conspiracy theories and whacky ideas or listening to how physically ill she is and that none of us care about her.

My supportive sibling has a loving, respectful and caring relationship with their partner and adult children. I can relax knowing that there won't be any emotional outbursts. There has been so much laughter. I can relax here. 

None of us has mentioned our sister. I am going to see if I can go all Christmas without mentioning her. I usually talk about her a lot. It's been difficult not to as she's always in my thoughts. So that's my secret task during this time. It's a little game I'm going to play to test myself to see how long I can go without talking about her. Talking about her would only reignite all the abuse that we've all endured for decades and re-traumatise everyone over again, including myself. I'm aware of my part in this process. There has been no current news about her that I'm aware of so there is no real reason to discuss her present situation. Usually I need to discuss what she has done to upset me.

So not discussing my sister is another step in my recovery journey. It's difficult not to mention her as we talk about past times and some of the fun times we had growing up together.

This is all a learning process and a new way of living. I have to learn to let her go by not mentioning her so much. There are other people in this world beside my uBPD/NPD sister.

If you've gone no contact with your abuser how do you cope talking about their past behaviour with other people?

Perhaps in the future I will only discuss my sister with the support groups I'm involved with and not my family. Maybe that is the way forward?

It's all a bit weird not discussing her. It feels like the elephant in the room that we aren't talking about but I think we've all had enough of her and are exhausted.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. 

X

I've posted this in the Other Media section of the forum as well.

How To Cope With A Dysfunctional Family During The Christmas Period

17 Dec 2021

Advice that may help you to cope during Christmas time from Khiron Clinics.


https://khironclinics.com/blog/dysfunctional-family-at-christmas/

I'm back home now after a few days away with my sibling's family and visiting our other sibling's family.

I didn't start any conversations about our sister but someone else did and I briefly joined in. One sibling mentioned about what we are going to do if or when our sister's adult children get married. They were wondering whether to attend or not. It has been something that's been on my mind a lot as well, but that's future thinking for another time.

We had a lovely time together without the trauma of our sister being involved.

Because of Covid-19 we didn't mix with any other people so we had quite a subdued time. There were no visits to the pub but we had a good time together instead.

We tested ourselves before mixing with our other sibling's family and were all negative.

I hope you have had a relaxing and peaceful time if you were celebrating.

May you have a happy new year.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe.

X

I am so happy to read the update and read that you had a nice peaceful Christmas with your supportive siblings.  That's great.  It also sounds really good that you managed not to bring up your NC sibling and managed to focus on staying in the moment during the visit.

What's really positive though is that your supportive sibling did bring up the topic on how to manage future events with your NC sibling.  This I would imagine would be a nice feeling to know you have that support there.  It would seem your other siblings are also stressed by your NC sibling and it's great that you have each other for support to navigate future events such as weddings etc.

I'm glad you had a lovely visit and I'm hoping the New Year will continue to bring more peace and inner strength.

I'm so glad you had a peaceful and loving and stress free Christmas. We did too- no PDs either!
:applause:

Thank you for your replies.

I just woke up from a nightmare about my uBPD/NPD sister. I've been two years no contact with her. Will the nightmares ever end?

I know I have a lot to process after decades of her abusive behaviour but the torment continues. I am grieving our non PD elderly parents as well so it all gets mixed up.

The flashbacks and nightmares are so real. Incidents from decades ago pop up at any time. I get triggered by so many things. I haven't watched television for that reason for two years. I limit what I watch online. I rarely watch the news as it's all usually very bad, especially about Covid-19.

I think I'm regressing not progressing. I know I'm being so negative. I am living with depression which makes me feel so negative. I try and be kind to myself but it can be so difficult.

I replay times when my sister was pleading for help, shaking and whimpering on the floor in a foetal position, or raging, shouting, screaming and suicidal. We never knew as a family what we could do to console her. Whatever we did was never right. We tried everything. It was never enough.

I feel so guilty about going no contact but I couldn't cope any more with her. It's as though my brain and body crave all the adrenaline again of the past traumatic times. It doesn't make any logical sense to me.

I know this is all CPTSD and trauma bonding. I understand a bit about that. I was fearful about going no contact. My sister hasn't contacted me so that has made my decision easier. I'm adamant not to contact her. She would only eventually love bomb me into submission and hoover me back into her pathetic waif life with all it's extremes.

Just venting and trying to make sense of everything.

Hi guitarman, 

I get this. I get flashbacks and random nightmares plus nostalgic dreams alot. You say you fear you are regressing but to me it sounds like healing. In my experience I have often gone through phases which are so painful that it feels like I must be going backwards.  Yet often someone on this forum has pointed out that at these very moments I am healing,  through the pain.

I am sorry it is so difficult right now. You talk about guilt and PTSD and trauma bonding. I heard somewhere once that when I feel guilt it is akin to faulty satnav . In other words it is not to be trusted. It is what was instilled from a dysfunctional background.

The brain and body craves the adrenaline of the chaos because it is what is most familiar. 

It sounds to me you are in a very painful place, but I hope it is a place of healing at the same time 

Stay strong

I am so sorry you have had a nightmare about your sister. Suffering in this way must be hard.  I think that it might be be the trauma bonding trying to fill in the 'gaps' your non contact has caused. We get accustomed to the drama and the pain. Sometimes, even when we put a stop to it, we then 'miss' it. I guess it can come out in dreams at first. I'm sure once time has passed, this will  begin to diminish.

Just my opinion of course, and I'm no therapist.
I just think you are on the right path, your own path.

Thank you for your responses.

One of my siblings and their partner have been tested positive for Covid-19. They are both non PD. Their young children have tested negative. I'm surprised that the children are still going to school but they get tested every day. Everyone is doing well and the parents are fully vaccinated.

I have more important things to worry about than my UBPD/NPD sister. This news has triggered a response in me. She still invades my thoughts. Now I'm imagining what I would do if she became seriously ill with Covid-19. This is all rumination and future thinking about nothing that hasn't even happened yet. It's how my mind works. "What if" thinking.

I'm so surprised that my sister has not been in contact during the pandemic worrying me with all her fears about it. When there is a genuine global health crisis there hasn't been a word from her for two years.

I've told myself that I don't want to see her ever again so I would have to stick to that boundary. I would let her adult children take responsibility for her, if they are in contact with her. I tell myself that she is not my responsibility.

I relive crisis times when she believed that she had life threatening illnesses. I frequently called for ambulances when she said that she couldn't breathe.

She had so many illnesses. She believed they were all serious. She would be very convincing. Heart disease, cancer, lung problems, stomach ulcers she was a walking miracle. She was always complaining about something new that she had self diagnosed herself with. I am in pain most days with sciatica but I rarely complain about it.

My non PD sibling has a good local support network of friends who will be helping take care of the children should they need them. I don't live nearby so I can't be there. It's all very worrying but they are fit and fully vaccinated so hopefully they should all be fine.

Just venting.

**** Trigger Warning ****

It's been over two years since I went no contact with my uBPD/NPD sister. I'm still having nightmares about her decades of abusive behaviour and feeling guilty about not contacting her.

I'm not at peace and keep having to remind myself why I don't want to have her back in my life. I can't cope with her extreme emotional rollercoaster ranging from being so kind, loving and happy to being so abusive, cruel and sad.

I got so used to the extreme mood swings and abuse. Then I would wait for the calm times to return knowing that she was then safe from self destructive threats which she had said she would carry out during the previous loud alarming tumultuous period.

I'm living with depression, probably CPTSD as well. I can't do much. I lack energy and motivation to do almost anything. I'm finding it difficult to do the most simplest of tasks. I find it difficult to plan and organise or to make decisions. I can't concentrate. I have negative thinking. I think I'm a terrible person and a complete failure.

I try not to blame my sister for me feeling this way. I used to feel like I was her constant rescuer, trying to save her from her life threatening behaviour and deflecting her abuse from the rest of her family. I felt I was a calming influence that would be with her to bring her back from the edge of despair. That was my role. To calmly listen, encourage, validate and placate.

I know now that I can't ever change her. Only she can do that.

I ask myself how am I going to feel if she ultimately carries out her threats to harm herself. I would feel so guilty about not doing more to help and support her. I know now that she used that guilt to control me. Abusers are all about power and control. Threatening to frequently harm oneself is abuse.

I feel that my body and mind have shut down, given up and given in. Memories of all the emotional trauma are just too much for me to cope with at times.

Often it is difficult for me to know what reality is and what is fiction, made up by my anxious, fearful mind.

I know I need to look after myself. No one else is going to do that for me. I say that I've done enough and that it's OK to not get involved any more. I need to be kinder to myself.

I get so confused at times. I don't know if this post even makes any sense.

I feel that something very bad is going to happen to me and the whole world. Impending doom. Anticipatory dread. I know this is anxiety.

I tell myself that thoughts aren't facts. They are only thoughts. I've learnt that from many years of regular Mindfulness meditation practice.

It helps me to write my thoughts down. I calm down eventually and feel less anxious. I live on my own so my thoughts can perpetuate and echo about unchallenged.

This is what decades of abuse and trauma does. It messes up your mind. It attacks your body. It makes you unable to function properly. It discombobulates you. I love that word.

Today was a good day. One non PD sibling visited me and we went out for a coffee together. We never mentioned our abusive sister. There are other things going on in the world.

Just rambling and venting.

Glad to hear you had a nice coffee with your non PD sibling.  Having those connections is so important.  I was watching a You Tube video the other day Brain Fog and Exhaustion after Narcissistic Abuse by Caroline Strawson and she went through the changes in the brain when you have suffered abuse over a period of time and how it affects your body.  I had read books about complex PTSD and the effects as well.

She says that NC is the only way to bring the body back from that constant source of cortisol that is released in these abusive relationships and how we need to give ourselves a break because what we are feeling with the brain fog and the exhaustion is normal and it simply needs time for our bodies to heal to get back to normal levels. She explains it more in depth and the different parts of the brain we end up utilising during abuse, I am not doing it justice however I found this video really interesting as I have been really exhausted the past couple of years and recently have been contemplating NC with my parents.  After watching this video it really cemented in my mind how important NC is and stopping that abuse from continuing.  As she explains, you can't heal if you continue with the contact, the brain needs to rest and not have that stress continuing ie stop the continual release of cortisol, to stop being in a continual state of fight/flight.  I really am seeing how damaging these types of relationships are and I am starting to see that I don't want to tolerate anyone in my life who seems to be PD.  It simply isn't worth it regarding our health.

The exhaustion that we are left with, is completely normal and her message is that we shouldn't beat ourselves up about it.  We are exhausted and have brain fog, yep we do, however we can heal that, it will be reversed with NC when the source of the stress is removed.

I am sure you have looked into this however as you say, you are exhausted, you lack motivation and as you say you sometimes feel guilty for not doing more.  I really hope you can see that NC is healing you.  That the exhaustion now is one of the effects of narcissistic abuse.  When we finally are out of that constant fight/flight then we finally get a chance to not only emotionally heal but physically heal as well.  I hope this helps a little with the guilt, to see that going NC is helping your healing process.  I think too often I do beat myself up over my lack of motivation and exhaustion, however it's good to remember that this isn't anything about me, it's a natural response to constant stress.  It has helped me in turning down the guilt a little about NC about shutting those people out of my life.  I also read about EMDR being particularly useful with PTSD and I am thinking about looking into this as well.

Yes your body has shut down but over time with healing, there will be more light.  Keep going, you'll get there. 

Thank you for your reply. You make a lot of sense.

I follow Caroline Strawson on Instagram and several other narcissistic abuse support places there as well. They are all useful for me to help with my recovery. They remind me what I have experienced.

I can't just "get over it". I naively thought that I would by now. I still get triggered so often. I frequently wake up in the middle of the night waking up from a nightmare about my uBPD/NPD sister.

I noticed that it used to take me at least three days to come back to normal after a chaotic incident. Then the cycle would continue again. I never knew when my sister would visit or listen to her frequent desperate phone calls.

I remind myself that I am now safe and there is peace. My mind is still living as though it is under attack and in danger or has to be ready to rescue her from danger at any moment. I can't relax. This is what trauma does to the body and mind.

I shouldn't be surprised really. I've experienced trauma for decades. I need to be kinder to myself and have more self compassion.

It's useful to know about cortisol and physiology and how the body and mind works. It's all fascinating to me. I reason with myself and explain why I am feeling a certain way.

I practice box breathing which helps to calm and slow down my breathing. I plan to learn more about breath work.

I am interested also in nutrition and mood and food. I read about how certain foods contain GABA and how it helps to calm the mind. I have been eating a plant based diet for two years. I'm surprised that I have persisted this long but I have no interest in eating meat. It's all about showing loving kindness to all living beings.

I have been watching many YouTube videos during the pandemic about animal rescues and seeing them recover from abuse. Maybe my mind is needing to see that recovery is possible with the appropriate treatment and care. I need to be rescued and care more for myself. It's just occurred to me why I have been drawn to watching these videos. It fills me with joy to see the abused animals thrive after they have been treated with love and kindness.

Recovery is a process that takes time. However long is different for everybody. Maybe I'll never fully recover but learn to manage and live better knowing I did my best with what I knew at the time.

My sister needed professional help but never accepted that help when it was offered. She believed everyone else needed the help. We did, to cope with her extreme behaviour.

I reached my limit. There comes a time when you need to put your own needs first for your own survival and wellbeing. I reached that point. I needed to go no contact otherwise we could be on this same emotional rollercoaster for the rest of our lives.

I'm listening to calming and relaxing Mozart music on YouTube. It lasts for over two hours. It helps to distract me from my troubled thinking.

Yeah my PDmother would say "Get over it", it's so dismissive and invalidating.  It takes time and it's different for everyone.  I was really surprised by what I have learned about the effects on the body, I had no idea and learning about it has helped to lessen the guilt for me.  Like you say the recovery time when in contact seems to get longer and longer and then I hit a point where I didn't feel like I was completely getting back to normal.  I had some things happen where they were stressful and I didn't cope that well, I think the combination of being in continual stress over my parents simply took a massive toll so that when something else happened, as it does in life, I simply didn't have much left in the tank to deal with it.  I ended up losing my patience, getting frustrated, reacting in anger and I came to see that something had to change.  I think the NC sometimes is what we need.  It's simply not healthy being around that abuse. 

I so relate to a lot of what you say.  I am in the process of going plant based.  I do struggle sometimes, however I am building up recipes and I usually only eat seafood at this point.  Ethically it's how I want to live, as like you have said kindness to all living beings.  I also love the video's of the animal rescues and seeing the changes after they have healed.  I think as well it's seeing kindness in people that is lovely, the fact that people do care.  I love seeing the actual expression on the animals face go from being sad and fearful to almost seeing a smile on their face and light in their eyes.  It's beautiful.

As you say your sister needed professional help and it was refused.  She is on her own journey and you are on yours.  I'm glad you have also watched the video's about the body and how it takes time to heal.  It took a long time to reach a point of reaching your limits, it will take some time to heal from that. 

Thank you.

I realised that I can't ever trust my uBPD/NPD sister not to abuse me ever again. She's never going to change. I've been no contact with her for two years. I can't go back to hearing about all her self diagnosed life threatening physical illnesses and how she can't cope with living because no one cares about her.

I'm having a peaceful time listening to some calming piano music. I'm enjoying the peace just observing my thoughts and breathing.

I'm listening to
Einaudi - Waves
The Piano Collection Vol. 2
played by Jeroen van Veen on YouTube

https://youtu.be/KjGcpAZHAHw

It was a suggestion made by YouTube. I've not heard the composer's work before.

Before going no contact quiet times were not enjoyable because my sister would often disrupt them with all her worries and death dramas. I would have to listen to her for hours. During the silences I would be thinking about the last traumatic time and how she would be coping. It was a constant emotional rollercoaster for decades.

Now I say that I've done enough. I wish her well from afar.

I want to enjoy the peace, the peace I've created by setting boundaries.

Sometimes, letting go with love is all we can do. You Guitarman could not have done more. Remember the three C's. They helped me immensely when I was in a bad place because of PD madness. Enjoy your peace, you deserve it.

Thank you. Yes I know about the three Cs. I found them very helpful. It was very freeing to realise my limitations and what I am NOT responsible for.

I also say to myself "I care but can't cope". That is how I honestly acknowledge what I have experienced.

I am kinder to myself. I have experienced extreme trauma and stress for decades. I have done all that I can.

Very good point about thoughts not being facts. Mindfulness is something I also practice, and I frequently watch similar videos you mention. I never knew about these things until a couple years ago and seeing what others share on this site has been so helpful.   

I only have one sibling who can also be cheerful and fun-loving and in the same conversation end up hurling personal insults, yell, and be vindictive. To be in contact with her is to ride her emotional rollercoaster and constantly re-direct her narrative, or rescue her from some new drama. I am 3 years NC, but had a phone call recently about our parent's health issues. She has not changed and it took a few weeks to recover from our interaction. I believe our bodies retain the impacts of what feels like an
assault to me (even if a verbal one). I felt scorched, burned somehow. It was a very familiar feeling and one I believe is not sustainable if I am going to have a healthy life. I let go with love, and think I need to continue on my path even though it will be a solo journey.   

I think you are doing many good things, and using the "tools" well. Just wanted to lend my support to you and let you know you are not alone.   

Thank you. That really helps.

It's 5am and I've just woken up from another nightmare about my uBPD/NPD sister. Now my body is full of adrenaline. It will take some time to relax and self soothe.

Adrenaline can induce automatic responses such as fight, flight, faint, freeze or fawn. I've experienced all of those before. I can get so easily triggered.

I will do some box breathing. That's a simple and effective new way I've learnt to calm myself.

Recovery is a process that takes time. I use my experiences in a positive way to help others both here and elsewhere. We all need to share our stories and help raise awareness about Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome.

There is a book called "The Body Keeps The Score" by Bessel van der Kolk that has been recommended but I have yet to read. It is about the effect of trauma and forms of healing.

https://www.besselvanderkolk.com

I am trying to be kinder to myself. It's not easy to turn around my inner critic to becoming my inner encouraging coach instead. I need a constant kind cheer leader that quells my negative thinking.

I have been posting recently in the Other Media Resources section of the forum about things that have helped me. You may like to check them out. I hope they help you as well.

I'm sending my thoughts and sympathy guitarman.
Box breathing is great. I do it too.
Have you also tried the longer exhalation breath?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-athletes-way/201905/longer-exhalations-are-easy-way-hack-your-vagus-nerve
I hope the link works! I'm not great at links.
I find it really soothing and calming. It's meant to engage the vagus nerve, counteracting fight or flight and moving us into 'rest and digest' .
Extended exhalation sends a message to the brain that it can relax. I found it through yoga. That and the box breathing. Both are so so helpful to me. I hope this is useful, sending my thoughts out to you. It isn't easy for you. We're here for you.

Thank you. I'm going to explore more about breath work.

I woke up feeling good this morning. I hope it lasts.

Hi Guitarman,

I'm sorry about the nightmares--it's so hard (!) to wake up when we have been in one of their grips.

The breathing really does help, when we can focus on that.

I read the Body Keeps the Score and it explained a lot. I had to put it down at times because some of it was very heavy. But I'm glad I kept going back to it.

I just wanted to say hello to you, you are doing a great job!...  :yourock:

Thank you.

I'm still reliving past traumas. It never leaves me. I don't suppose that it ever will but I will learn to cope and manage it all. Over time it will lessen, I hope. Thoughts aren't facts.

I've read somewhere that because of the trauma bonding, once we are safe, we may dream quite vividly about the traumas. But they are in the past now. Hold onto that. I'm not an expert, but I'm feeling that even if you keep having these dreams, that their  intensity and their effect  will begin, with time, to lessen. Xx

Thank you. There have been many other traumatic events I have experienced over the last decade or more, apart from my uBPD/NPD sister, including both our parents passing away, living with chronic sciatica and overwhelming fear about the pandemic. They all seem to be mixed up in my thinking.

I have some good, peaceful times but then I can get easily triggered and everything comes flooding back again.

I'm learning to be kinder to myself.

"With self-compassion we give ourselves the same kindness and care we'd give to a good friend" - Dr. Kristin Neff.

https://self-compassion.org

I realise now how much trauma and stress I have been experiencing for a long time. I didn't realise so much at the time as I was living on adrenaline through some very serious life threatening emergency situations. I was often having to cope with them alone. I have learnt now not to minimise what has happened.

I can identify with a diagnosis of living with CPTSD for myself. That explains a lot about what I am experiencing.

Self compassion- yes it's something I practise now too.
You're doing well. I so understand about the cptsd.
Xx take care

I'm beginning to doubt what happened to me at times. Was the abuse as bad as I think? Then I look back on my posts here and remember events so vividly.

I know if I get back in contact with my uBPD/NPD sister she wouldn't have changed. I would only be back on her emotional rollercoaster coaster with her.

I mustn't minimise what happened or make excuses for it. I mustn't excuse her behaviour as mental illness or her having no insight. She knew exactly what she was doing.

I feel huge sympathy for her but that shouldn't be any excuse for her behaviour.

I mustn't feel guilty for her behaviour. That is the tactic of the abuser to make you feel responsible for their behaviour. I've felt responsible for her all my life thinking I could and should do more to help her. I feared the consequences if I didn't.

I need to be kinder to myself. I need to show more self compassion for myself. Abusers shame targets of abuse into thinking that their feelings don't matter, when they of course should.

These are all the twisted mind games they can play. It takes courage and determination to break away. No wonder I feel so messed up. I've endured decades of brain washing and abusive behaviour.

One day I won't feel so guilty. One day I will feel free.

Just having a doubtful day of fear and negativity.

Hi guitarman,

I'm glad to see your affirmations. I hope you will keep returning to them in your time of doubt. You are a kind person, and you deserve to be treated kindly.

I've read many of your posts and they have been a source of help and validation to me, and I am sure many many others, although I am sad to think of what you have been through.

That you are here to tell about it shows the brightness of your spirit.

Please continue to focus on you and give yourself credit for all the work you have done!  :git:

Thank you.

Just having a rough day.

X

I am getting badly triggered by the news from Ukraine. I haven't watched television for two years. I am careful about what I watch online on YouTube and Facebook. I follow the news sometimes but have to limit what I look at. I limit what I listen to on the radio for the the same reason.

It's so easy to get sucked into watching live news reports online for hours and hours. I realise that I have to protect myself.

Any animal abuse or human injustice stories get me so inflamed. It's as though I am experiencing the events myself. My body releases adrenaline and it takes me time to self soothe and calm down to realising that I am safe.

I have experienced decades of abusive behaviour from my uBPD/NPD sister. I explain to people that it's been like living in a war zone waiting for the next bomb to drop. I have never lived in an actual war zone, just an emotional war zone where my mental and physical health were repeatedly under attack. As a family we became used to it all. It all became normal.

I'll probably have bad dreams about the news tonight. I should have been more careful and not watched so much about it all today. It's going to be the main news story for a long time.

I didn't really realise all the trauma I have been experiencing for years, well decades. I got so used to it. It became normal and I expected it. That's how ongoing abuse becomes ingrained and accepted.

I would expect my uBPD/NPD sister to act out screaming and shouting. She trained us not to criticise or upset her in case she carried out her histrionic threats of suicide. That's coercive control, isn't it?

Even now I find it difficult to fully accept what has happened as abuse. I used to explain and excuse her behaviour as a mental health issue so I felt I had to be subdued around her in case my behaviour set her off in an extreme emotional landslide.

I'm getting triggered badly about the news from Ukraine. It's all so terrible. My mind is going into "What if? What if? What if?" mode. I have to say to myself "What is. What is. What is" instead. That grounds me in the present and reminds me I'm not there and I'm safe.

My inner critical voice is so loud. I am trying to be kinder to myself. I have negative thoughts about most things. I should be doing so many things but I just can't any more. I feel a complete failure. I am living with depression.

If I were in contact with my sister she would be telling me off. She would be boasting about all she has achieved and able to do things even though she claims to have life threatening illnesses. My inner critic is her voice shouting at me.

That's what abuse does. It destroys you from within.

I attended a family day yesterday. All my close family except my uBPD/NPD sister were there.

We haven't met up with my sister's adult children for a long time. It was good to catch up with them. They don't have much contact with their mother so like me they don't know much about what's happening with her. I thought they were in more frequent contact with her but they aren't, which surprised me.

I was determined not to talk about my sister but others started talking about her and I joined in.

It brought up a lot of memories of past traumatic incidents and all the chaos and dramas we've all endured.

Thankfully we didn't talk about my sister all the time. We have other people in the family to talk and care about.

I keep thinking that my sister's children are still very small and vulnerable but they aren't. They are adults in their thirties.

They seems to be thriving and happy in their lives living away from their mother. They have firm boundaries with her and keep to them. That is how they stay safe and well.

All the talk about my uBPD/NPD sister made me have a nightmare about her. This trauma will never leave me. I keep reliving all that has happened years ago.

I know I am safe but it's difficult to convince my mind that I am.

You do not want to get stuck in the past. The nightmare might be a sign that you are strong enough to process it and put it behind you. You have learned so many techniques and you have become an expert in c-ptsd by now, take back control over your own life now.  Do not allow her control over your life from now on. As long as you let the past control your now, she has control over you. These might be unpleasant feelings, but you have the skills and the help you need to go through them and come out your own man on the end of that tunnel! You are not a victim anymore. You are a survivor.

Hey Guitarman I am sorry you had more nightmares.  Perhaps the talking within the family is not helping to relieve the stress, our brains from what I read don't know the difference between thoughts or reality, so our thoughts can affect the body as it feels the stress and responds to it even though it's just a thought or conversation.  It's like reliving it I guess. 

I do a lot of rumination and watched something recently that said people do this because they are trying to make sense of it or understand it, in a way it's how we are wired, we want to understand however in these types of relationships understanding is pretty much impossible.  I agree with this, I ruminate so much because I keep thinking that if I just go over it one more time something will become clear to me and I'll understand it.  However ruminating keeps you locked in, keeps your body reacting, it isn't healthy for us.  I would think conversations would have the same effect.

So recently I have been practising being in the moment more.  Just switching off.  I think it has really helped me to be away from my parents and not having any new trauma coming my way.  The more I concentrate on doing things during the day I enjoy, focusing on my now the rest seems to slip away and I am finding I am not ruminating or thinking about it as much.  As a result along with meditation I am feeling more calm and centered.  I feel more relaxed.  My healing needs to be about me now, not focused on them.

I say this as perhaps the conversations are not helping at this stage.  Perhaps your body needs to unwind from the stress.  Telling yourself that you are safe is one step however switch the mind off from thinking about your sister, meditate, do things which you enjoy, do tasks which you get engrossed in, do vagus nerve exercises etc.  Find the things that work for you.

I'm glad you enjoyed the family dinner etc and hopefully in time people will be happy not talking about your sister and you'll simply be able to relax and enjoy the evening.

I was just reading a list of terms relating to narcissistic abuse and got triggered. I had flashbacks, was sweating and noticed my heartbeat racing.

I used to feel compelled to sort everything out for my uBPD/NPD sister so that she would stop raging or feel suicidal. It was such a relief when she eventually calmed down.

I realise now that I took on a lot myself and wasn't equipped to handle such an ongoing responsibility without any professional help for her. She wouldn't accept any as she didn't believe that she had any issues. Now I have to look after my owns needs first and I can't cope with her continuing extreme distress. So I decided over two years ago not to have any more contact with her. This has left me thinking that she is in a constant crisis state because I have had no resolution, wondering how she is. Like before she's most probably emotionally up and down, as ever, going from extreme to extreme. I need to realise that she's never going to change and that I can't change her, no matter how much I want to.

I am living with depression. I have extreme negative thinking. I can't do much at the moment. It's early in the morning. I feel calm and well. I went out yesterday. I posted a letter and did some food shopping. For me those are major achievements. It sounds ridiculous to write that down and admit that but that is how my life is. I find it difficult to imagine my life any differently but I know things will change. Little by little things will change. For now I will let things be. I will be gentle with myself.

Life is a teacher. I have learnt to let go and let be. I have learnt to stay calm. I have learnt that I matter too.

Thank you everyone for your continued support. Only we know what it is like to care for someone in your life living with BPD/EUPD/NPD etc. What matters most is how you care for yourself as no one else is going to do that for you.

It's a lovely sunny day here.

X

 :sunny:
Guitarman I'm sending you lots of kind support, hugs and caring thoughts.

Thank you.

X

I had a really good day yesterday. I was able to have a carers support group meeting online and discuss my issues with people I've known for years and new members as well.

We've not been able to meet face to face because of the pandemic but hopefully we will meet again sometime in the future.

I really miss going to regular meetings, having a hug and sharing all the laughter that we used to have all together.

It's good to talk with people who really understand what it's been like to cope with an uBPD/NPD sister who has been so abusive for decades.

I hope that you all can get support yourselves.

Here's a big virtual hug for you guitarman!  Your heart shines clearly through all the pain you have been through! I am glad you had a good day yesterday and that you got good support!  :)

Thank you.

X

This post will be closed down as it's reached the five page limit. I shall start another.

Looks like this has been a productive conversation. Going to have to lock this for length, but as guitarman says... he will start another to carry on the conversation.