Have I been played by my husband?

[Spirit in the sky]

Hello again,

I find it strange being back here again because I honestly believed when my narcissistic father died I was free and completely Out of the FOG.  Now I am not so sure, although I have been vvvvl contact with my narcissistic mother in law, my husband seems to be creeping back into her company again. He was no contact for nearly a year but she has been gradually working her way back in, using the virus as an excuse to resume contact and 'look after him'.

None of her behaviour surprises me but I have had my eyes opened by my husband's behaviour. I had therapy when my father died in April and now I am beginning to see similar personality traits in my husband and my deceased father. I see myself as my mother co-dependant and being grateful for the crumbles of approval he throws at me.

Really this should be no surprise to me, he has always been controlling in his own way and as I have been conditioned by my father to constantly seek approval, I would put up with a lot of unkind behaviour because occasionally he would be kind and I focused on what I believed to be genuine. Now I think he knows he has to at least be civil to keep the mask in place. Sometimes it slips and he's rude and aggressive and I see how my father treated my mother and I can't believe I'm in the same situation.

Part of me hopes I'm wrong and the past 20 years haven't been a lie but deep down I don't feel any genuine love or affection. I believe maybe he thinks he cares but truthfully I think I'm the means to an end and if a better offer appeared he'd run. Not that that's likely I don't think there's anyone else stupid enough to allow someone to emotionally bully them and be grateful because even negative attention is better than nothing.   

[SparkStillLit]

Hey. Don't smack yourself around. I think a lot of us unknowingly jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. We just didn't know what normal looked like, never having seen it.
I'm a long timer myself, trying to figure out how to conduct my life henceforth with a updmum and a updh. Now that I've noticed, so to speak.

[Pepin]

Sadly, I am also dealing with this except that my father is still alive but I've been no contact for a very long time.  I was misinformed about what I was getting into when I married DH because he was a different man at the beginning.  Life circumstance has changed us both and we are not the same people anymore after 20 years of marriage.  I certainly don't want to be who I was but I ache for the man DH used to be.

What happened has created a ripple effect in my case.  FIL passed away and his death revealed the real PDmil.  The brunt of her shortcomings has landed all on DH's shoulders and as a man who has been brainwashed into loyalty over the grief of his father, DH has become someone that isn't always fun to be around in his FOC.  This has become increasingly painful for not only me, but especially for our teens. 

Last year the straw was broken after an incident of DH's mishandled behavior toward them and he has still not apologized for it.  DH's behavior was the result of some health news DH received about PDmil that he was unable to do anything about since we were vacationing far away.  It was extremely unfair of him to behave the way that he did and we let him know!  While he snapped out of it, he didn't show remorse and therefore the teens have more or less blacklisted him.

As you can guess, PDmil is the fuel behind this fire...DH's continued enmeshment with her as her GC select is causing all sorts of divisions throughout the extended family and now within ours.

Like you, I am at a loss for words.  I don't even know how to approach DH about this because he could easily take offense, pack and go.  He is unable to see the damage that is going on and it is he who actually has the power to diffuse everything.  I wish I had better words to offer other than to say that I can relate...

[bloomie]

Hi Spirit in the sky thankful you reached out as you think things through. 

The passing of a PD parent can create room in our lives to better examine our primary relationships and patterns that are not working for us I have found.  I agree with Spark.. we go toward what we know and what has been normalized for us. And often our marriages and relationships with in laws were established when we were young and eager to please and to love and be loved.

Redrawing the boundaries and establishing new and healthy ways of relationship and relating with our partners as we become more self aware, recognize disordered behaviors, and become empowered - in other words as we grow in health and shrink in willingness to allow any kind of disrespectful or abusive behaviors toward us - is a difficult journey. Further complicated by how to handle unhealthy and divisive people edging back into your lives.

It is especially difficult when only one of you is actively working on recovery from the wounds of your FOO and toward loving and supporting one another. I'm really sorry if this is the case with you and your H.

A book that started me on my own recovery journey after having been groomed to be practically perfect in every way and to please everyone at all times, especially my troubled parents who were rarely pleased with anything, much less their children, is: The Disease to Please by Harriet B. Braiker, Ph.D.

The very best thing I have ever done for my marriage which was fraught with power struggles and an underlying spirit of opposition from my H has been to determine my core values and begin to live in the boundaries that flow from those values. One of those core values is that I do not allow myself to be disrepected or abused. By anyone. Ever.

I also continue to learn and grow in having internal boundaries that work to keep me from placating and pleasing - which I have learned is a trauma response for me, and what I learned to do to survive in a harsh and tumultuous family growing up. I would freeze or fawn.

I needed to understand and work through those responses because I was unwittingly making myself open to further exploitation when I coped with perceived disapproval or what seemed like danger of any kind. And this was especially important as I worked to gain balance in my marriage after the deaths of my parents when, for the first time, there was room to do this deep inner work.

I found the work of Pete Walker to be another great help in understanding this within myself. All of the free articles on his website have been significant for me, but especially the Trauma Typology article: http://www.pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

You are dealing with a lot. Keep coming back and sharing and seeking encouragment. We are here for you and will support you as you continue your journey Out of the FOG!

[GettingOOTF]

It’s good to see you back here. Our healing is never really finished there is always room for growth and always a need for some understanding ears (eyes).

I am the opposite of most in that I didn’t see my family as abusive until after I recognized the abuse in my marriage.

When I met my ex I thought he was everything I’d always wanted. I remember thinking how happy I was that I’d get to have a family. The marriage was a nightmare. I look back at all the red flags I missed and it’s shocking. But I also see that they weren’t red flags to me as they were things I grew up with and considered “normal”.

My experience has been that when I come to terms with abuse in one area of my life it’s easier to recognize abuse in others.

The one thing everything I’ve read about dysfunctional families agrees on is that no child comes out of it unscathed. Some of us are more resilient but we all carry with us what we were taught by our families. It’s natural that if we grew up in a PD home we’d gravitate to PD or PD-like behavior in a partner.

I was listening to the Inner Integration podcasts someone here recommended and she had an episode about children growing up on PD homes. She said they grow up to be the abuser or the abused as that is what they are modeled. This rang true for me.

My sister and I swore we wouldn’t be like our parents when we grew up. We both married men exactly like our father.

Coming Out of the FOG is a lot to deal with. Most people don’t even attempt it. It’s incredibly painful and difficult work. It forces us to look at every relationship we have. I found that many of the friends I had weren’t good friends, they simply treated me better than my ex. Much like my ex treated me better than my family.

You are not stupid. You have been conditioned to dance for approval and be grateful for any scraps that are thrown your way.

Look at you, coming back here working on another difficult area of your life. You are a brave, strong, resilient m, self-aware and curious person. You deserve only love, support and kindness. You are the opposite of stupid and undeserving.

I had to learn to forgive myself. It meant really working to interstate that I did my absolute best with what I knew at the time. Now I know more so I do a bit better, but it’s a process.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Spark,

Things had been improving when my hubby reduced contact with his mother. But the lockdown situation brought a lot of fear based issues to the core for him and while I focused on trying to support him to work on himself, NMIL swans in as the 'saviour' and he became a lost little boy again. So difficult to watch as he had made real progress when he was nc with her, but she played on all his weaknesses to worm her way back. 

Hey. Don't smack yourself around. I think a lot of us unknowingly jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. We just didn't know what normal looked like, never having seen it.
I'm a long timer myself, trying to figure out how to conduct my life henceforth with a updmum and a updh. Now that I've noticed, so to speak.

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Pepin, I'm sorry to hear you are dealing with this too. I can imagine it would be more challenging with children, thankfully I don't have that problem.

Looking back I can see I am also part of the problem, I knew what I was getting into when my met my hubby and I foolishly thought I could change him. Now I realise that's what my mother spent 50 years doing with my father. At the end he ended up hating and resenting her and it was only when he was dying she seen his true colours.

There's glimmers of hope with my hubby but I have noticed the more time he spends with his mother more he falls into the old behaviour patterns. And really shouldn't be surprised he was raised in that environment and the damage was done many years ago.

I find it difficult to bite my tongue when he tells me how great she is and how much she has changed. And then I hear from a friend that she verbally assaulted someone in a shop because she was asked to wear a mask.

Sadly, I am also dealing with this except that my father is still alive but I've been no contact for a very long time.  I was misinformed about what I was getting into when I married DH because he was a different man at the beginning.  Life circumstance has changed us both and we are not the same people anymore after 20 years of marriage.  I certainly don't want to be who I was but I ache for the man DH used to be.

What happened has created a ripple effect in my case.  FIL passed away and his death revealed the real PDmil.  The brunt of her shortcomings has landed all on DH's shoulders and as a man who has been brainwashed into loyalty over the grief of his father, DH has become someone that isn't always fun to be around in his FOC.  This has become increasingly painful for not only me, but especially for our teens. 

Last year the straw was broken after an incident of DH's mishandled behavior toward them and he has still not apologized for it.  DH's behavior was the result of some health news DH received about PDmil that he was unable to do anything about since we were vacationing far away.  It was extremely unfair of him to behave the way that he did and we let him know!  While he snapped out of it, he didn't show remorse and therefore the teens have more or less blacklisted him.

As you can guess, PDmil is the fuel behind this fire...DH's continued enmeshment with her as her GC select is causing all sorts of divisions throughout the extended family and now within ours.

Like you, I am at a loss for words.  I don't even know how to approach DH about this because he could easily take offense, pack and go.  He is unable to see the damage that is going on and it is he who actually has the power to diffuse everything.  I wish I had better words to offer other than to say that I can relate...

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks Bloomie,

I thought when my father died all the problems would go with him. On a positive note I have a great relationship with my mother now because I don't feel I constantly have to protect her from my father. I don't think she will ever full understand the damage he did to her self esteem or the damage witnessing their dysfunctional relationship caused me, but I live with that.

I can understand the relationship between my hubby and his mother, I spent years believing my father would change and put up with a lot of abusive behaviour in the hope of gaining his approval.

I think that what's my hubby wants, he wants his mother to love and accept him unconditionally and in truth she isn't capable. She not capable of accepting herself and protects all her issues onto other people. The last time I had contact with her she told me the only person I cared about was myself, how ironic is that!

The thing is I know I have to accept I can't change anyone else but myself, and I'm repeating the same pattern of behaviour trying to rescue my hubby from his mother, just as I tried my whole life trying to rescue my mother from my father. My hubby has learnt behavioural patterns from his mother and treating people badly seems to be one of them. There's also a fear of losing control, I seen this with my father also.

Obviously I need to reset some boundaries, I have no intention of resuming contact with nMIL, even though hubby thinks she changed. She may have fooled him but I'm not called for the love bombing, I can't be bought. I think that annoys her, she needs to feel needed and I'm a very independent person, I had to be growing up with my dysfunctional parents. I learnt to really only on myself. The only person I could trust was myself, everyone else let me down.

Hi Spirit in the sky thankful you reached out as you think things through. 

The passing of a PD parent can create room in our lives to better examine our primary relationships and patterns that are not working for us I have found.  I agree with Spark.. we go toward what we know and what has been normalized for us. And often our marriages and relationships with in laws were established when we were young and eager to please and to love and be loved.

Redrawing the boundaries and establishing new and healthy ways of relationship and relating with our partners as we become more self aware, recognize disordered behaviors, and become empowered - in other words as we grow in health and shrink in willingness to allow any kind of disrespectful or abusive behaviors toward us - is a difficult journey. Further complicated by how to handle unhealthy and divisive people edging back into your lives.

It is especially difficult when only one of you is actively working on recovery from the wounds of your FOO and toward loving and supporting one another. I'm really sorry if this is the case with you and your H.

A book that started me on my own recovery journey after having been groomed to be practically perfect in every way and to please everyone at all times, especially my troubled parents who were rarely pleased with anything, much less their children, is: The Disease to Please by Harriet B. Braiker, Ph.D.

The very best thing I have ever done for my marriage which was fraught with power struggles and an underlying spirit of opposition from my H has been to determine my core values and begin to live in the boundaries that flow from those values. One of those core values is that I do not allow myself to be disrepected or abused. By anyone. Ever.

I also continue to learn and grow in having internal boundaries that work to keep me from placating and pleasing - which I have learned is a trauma response for me, and what I learned to do to survive in a harsh and tumultuous family growing up. I would freeze or fawn.

I needed to understand and work through those responses because I was unwittingly making myself open to further exploitation when I coped with perceived disapproval or what seemed like danger of any kind. And this was especially important as I worked to gain balance in my marriage after the deaths of my parents when, for the first time, there was room to do this deep inner work.

I found the work of Pete Walker to be another great help in understanding this within myself. All of the free articles on his website have been significant for me, but especially the Trauma Typology article: http://www.pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

You are dealing with a lot. Keep coming back and sharing and seeking encouragment. We are here for you and will support you as you continue your journey Out of the FOG!

[Spirit in the sky]

Thanks GettingOOTF,

I think once I started seeing things clearly there was no going back for me. I'm not prepared to put up with bad behaviour and I need to understand how my relationships have shaped me as a person.

I thought hubby and I were on this journey together, he had made insights into his mother's behaviour and was able to see through her lies. But the trauma of lockdown sent him spiralling backwards and he became a lost little boy again. I seen the situation as a challenge and there was no way I was going let it bring me down, it happened to coincide with my father's death and seen it as a rebirth for me.

It's sad to see a grown man run to his mother when faced with a challenge, she has always used challenging times in his life to control him. Instead of educating and supporting him to be proactive and face his problems head on, she's always preferred to fix it for him. Making him emotionally and financially dependent on him, yes financially can you believe she continues to have him money, a 59 year old man getting handouts?

It's a long and complicated story but whatever is lacking in her as a person she feeds off other people's trauma and she actually believes she's a good person. But I know I need to just let go of all that and work on me and leave them to it.

It's good to see you back here. Our healing is never really finished there is always room for growth and always a need for some understanding ears (eyes).

I am the opposite of most in that I didn't see my family as abusive until after I recognized the abuse in my marriage.

When I met my ex I thought he was everything I'd always wanted. I remember thinking how happy I was that I'd get to have a family. The marriage was a nightmare. I look back at all the red flags I missed and it's shocking. But I also see that they weren't red flags to me as they were things I grew up with and considered "normal".

My experience has been that when I come to terms with abuse in one area of my life it's easier to recognize abuse in others.

The one thing everything I've read about dysfunctional families agrees on is that no child comes out of it unscathed. Some of us are more resilient but we all carry with us what we were taught by our families. It's natural that if we grew up in a PD home we'd gravitate to PD or PD-like behavior in a partner.

I was listening to the Inner Integration podcasts someone here recommended and she had an episode about children growing up on PD homes. She said they grow up to be the abuser or the abused as that is what they are modeled. This rang true for me.

My sister and I swore we wouldn't be like our parents when we grew up. We both married men exactly like our father.

Coming Out of the FOG is a lot to deal with. Most people don't even attempt it. It's incredibly painful and difficult work. It forces us to look at every relationship we have. I found that many of the friends I had weren't good friends, they simply treated me better than my ex. Much like my ex treated me better than my family.

You are not stupid. You have been conditioned to dance for approval and be grateful for any scraps that are thrown your way.

Look at you, coming back here working on another difficult area of your life. You are a brave, strong, resilient m, self-aware and curious person. You deserve only love, support and kindness. You are the opposite of stupid and undeserving.

I had to learn to forgive myself. It meant really working to interstate that I did my absolute best with what I knew at the time. Now I know more so I do a bit better, but it's a process.