Out of the FOG

Today is my birthday.  I'm taking stock and am mostly happy with what I see.  In recent years I've been sad on my birthday.  No children and considering this is my 49th birthday, I am finding acceptance with the knowledge that the only way I'll be a mother at this point is through extraordinary measures.  Measure that I won't pursue.  I KNOW my life is important but sometimes I FEEL like it's not due to my lack of family.

Last week I decided to redecorate a room.  I pinned tons of pictures of rooms that I "wished" I had.  I finally decided that I should try.  My husband was leaving for a few days so I cleared it with him.  We agreed on a budget and he told me to do whatever I wished.  Still, I found myself sinking into a funk.  I really had to work hard to talk myself through this whole thing.

It didn't make sense.  I had great design ideas that were totally do able (just a lot of work).  I had free range because my husband doesn't care one bit about surroundings.  I had plenty of money.  And I had a chunk of time that would be completely uninterrupted.  The only thing holding me back . . . was me. 

I felt guilty buying rugs and curtains - but I told myself that these are normal purchases people make to create a nice home.  Even my parents spend good money on these things.

I felt excessive for also buying other things, like lamps and bookends, that I didn't technically "need" - but I reminded myself that in the last 16 years I'd spent almost nothing on home furnishings.  It's completely okay to purchase nice things at reasonable prices.

I hesitated on picking an untraditional color - but I told myself that I loved it.  That husband wouldn't care.  That it's only wall color and I don't have to be practical.  I can live with it for a year and if I hate it I can repaint.

I felt hopeless.  I'm almost 50 and when I die it won't matter if I had a nice home or not.  Why bother with the money and hassle?  But I pointed out to myself that my shabby room just felt sad.  That I don't entertain because it's not comfortable or clean looking.  Making this effort WILL make me happier when I'm alone in my home.  It will also give me confidence to entertain.

So I purchased things.  I gathered my supplies.  I drank almost a full cup of coffee while staring at the empty room.  And then I painted.  And scrubbed, and found myself getting calmer, happier, and even excited.

The expensive cleaner DID brighten my dingy floors and I happily scrubbed.

The paint IS so very pretty.  I love it.

The new things I purchased make my vintage and cast off finds (that I actually love) look styled and nice - instead of shabby and sad.

I even learned a lesson in my process. 

I really wanted to have that gratifying feeling of new paint so I skipped the step of painting the ceiling.  Even though I knew that was not the correct way to do it - I decided that I'd do the ceiling after painting the walls.  Well, my friends, don't ever do that.  It's a nightmare to keep the walls nice.  I had to edge up the walls again after the ceiling paint dried.  It was very frustrating.  It made me think of different things in my life. 

So often I want to get to the good part.  I allow myself to get there without putting in the work.  Perfect marriage?  Great friends?  Awesome job?  I've "faked it until I made it".  And then had to backpedal to to make it so.  It's a hard, hurtful and time consuming going backwards. It's frustrating to correct life mistakes without any experience or footing.

For instance, I wanted a perfect marriage.  I married someone that sparked me.  Even if he had substance abuse problems.  I told myself I'd help him while enjoying the good parts of him that made me happy (fun person, confident, family oriented).  But I found myself in a situation where I was babysitting a man I no longer respected, while dealing with a whole collection of dysfunctional family members.  Life looked good when we dressed up and went out, but we were a mess at home.

I laughed as I corrected that damn ceiling.  Had I made myself do the boring, and more difficult, job of painting the ceiling first - that wall color would have been so much more satisfying.  And way less work.  The difficult parts would be done and I'd be happier.  Instead I was moving heavy furniture back and forth again, climbing up the ladder a lot more times.  I was using extra paint and getting way off track with my plans.

Had I done the work of therapy and created good boundaries I might have saved myself a lot of pain in my marriage.  And succeeded much more quickly.

My home renovation lesson taught me that anytime I am painting a whole room - I MUST paint the ceiling first.  No exceptions. 

My relationship experience has taught me to first see people who they are.  Get to know them.  And only then should I proceed to a relationship and friendship.

Yesterday I applied that lesson to a new friendship. 

I made plans to do something with a person I've known for a awhile.  We live very different lives (she has 3 children, an excessively beautiful home, lots of money to vacation with and pursue expensive hobbies).  But we share a common interest and we decided to make plans.  It turns out that she is a great person.  She loves her life, makes fast decisions and also happens to be generous with her time and money.  She had a messy childhood and shared a lot with me in the 2 hours we were in the car. 

But.  She is sort of judgey.  In a way that I kind of accepted because I can be judgmental too.  I think many people are and I found it refreshing that she was honest.  Another flag was that she gossiped about mutual people we know.  Once she asked me a question and I felt like she was baiting me to talk about a person.  I saw a bit of my old self in her.  I handled myself but found myself making a mental note to NOT confide in her unless it was something I was comfortable being made common knowledge.  I was feeling proud of myself for planning to cut her off before the relationship proceeded.

BUT

And I'm just now realizing that I've been wanting every single friendship in my life to be perfect.  I wanted every friendship I have to be a "ride or die" situation.  Right now I am realizing that it's simply not possible to create a life where every single person you call friend is "ride or die".  You must have one or two friends who are perfect to you.  But it's okay to have a handful of imperfect people who you can enjoy, and learn from, and have as a nice addition to your life.

It's okay to be friends with imperfect people as long as you can maintain your boundaries and standards.  My new friend can be can be a casual friend.  I can have fun with her and make great memories.  She will not be someone I should confide in.  I will have to work a little harder to not indulge in gossip.  But I can appreciate her for all the wonderful ways she behaves.  I can be inspired by her ability to grab life.  I can laugh with her. 

I just can't tell her my deepest secrets. 

For some reason - up to this point - I've wanted everyone to know everything about me.  Probably so they can be impressed with how "great" I am.  How "strong".  "Inspirational".  If they know all the terrible things about me - they will be in awe of me and THAT adoration would MADE me feel so very good.

Sometimes I felt obligated to tell my whole story.  Even with very new friendships I felt I need to let them know my patterns, my failed first marriage, my issues with my husband.  It seemed like I was living a lie unless they knew.

What a blessing today to learn that I'm just a regular person like everyone else.  That my past is private.  It's mine to share or shield as I wish.  That I do have a few trusted people who know everything and "get me".  That I have many other people who at least like me.  That I finally like me!  Even if I am still struggling to find my footing with the concept of "health" instead of the surface level aspiration to appear "good".

Quote from: user on October 24, 2023, 09:32:41 AMKudos for painting and decorating the room! I hope that you will remember, even if your husband doesn't like it, if YOU like it that is all that matters. And if he does like it that is gravy on top!

All in all, a very Hopeful message!

Thanks for this affirming message!  My husband LOVED what I did in my home decorating.

I'm praying today to find balance in my emotions.  While I know that life is wonderful - I'm feeling beaten down today.

Last year I paid a few bills late.  I paid them with the late fees and moved on.  Recently I received a collection notice.  It's a long story but I owe extra money and even thought I don't think it's fair - I've paid it. 

Today I called the government office to inquire about a few things and to make sure that my payment was logged.  I was treated with obvious annoyance and disrespect.  The woman was just so cold and unhelpful and even mocking me for, I guess, a stupid question.  She talked over me and I raised my voice.  Eventually I yelled at her.  Loudly.  I have NEVER done this.  I completely lost my cool.  She eventually allowed me to speak and was all "yes ma'am" to me.  Even that was very condescending. 

I am not angry that for how I reacted - she really was "mean girling" me.  I'm just stunned that someone could be so unhelpful and terrible to a person who is trying to fix a mistake.  I wish for myself I could have dealt with her in a more mature way.  I wish I could have listened to her give me a exasperated half answer and then I wish I would have said,

"I am unfamiliar with this sort of problem and I do not find you to be helpful.  Could you please transfer me to someone else in your office."

But I already felt embarrassed by this mess.  I am completely out of my element here.  I felt humiliated by the way she was talking to me.  And then further degraded when she wouldn't even allow me to speak.  When I know that the issue is solved I may reach out to the office with a complaint.  But maybe it's best to just move forward.  My husband was super nice and supportive when I unloaded my emotions on this.  I know that I am not alone.

Aside from that nonsense, I learned that my friend had to have an unexpected surgery and I'm worried about her and her family.  Stupidly the death of Matthew Perry is adding to my sadness.  I really enjoyed that actor.  Also, I spent the whole weekend at home and now i have a ton of work to accomplish today. Plus I have a few tasks at my house that will absolutely need to be done tonight.  I am allowing that phone conversation to alter my day and THAT is why I am praying for balance. 

I cannot control how the people at the government office behave.  The amount i had to pay was not huge.  It is not worth my time to learn how to fight it or to try to voice my concerns over a person I will (hopefully) never have to deal with again.

I cannot control my friends health.  I can think of ways to support her as she recovers but her health is in God's hands.

I certainly cannot mourn an actor I never knew.  That is not a sadness I need to take on.

I can take a walk around the block and return to my office with dedication of completing some tasks.  I can do this as many times as needed until I get the work finished.

I can go home and do those tasks at any hour.  They are pleasant tasks anyway and it will be a nice ending to this not great day.

Amen.

My mother-in-law, the perfectly lovely woman I still struggle with, has cancer.  Luckily it sounds like it is a common cancer that has been caught early.  So it's scary but not necessarily devastating. 

I am ashamed because when my husband told me I had a number of negative thoughts running through my head.

- Why did she call at such an early hour?

- How could she not know the name of the cancer?

- Why was I not included on the call?  She going to call her kids and then her siblings.  I am nothing in this family.

- I immediately thought of how this is going to stir the family up.  PD people are going to pretend they are "children of the year" and support her in ways that they've disregarded her in the past.  My SIL will be especially terrible.

- I thought, "maybe this is a good thing.  It's a "simple" cancer but it might change this family for the good."  It's not good.

- I thought negatively of my FIL and how badly he usually treats her.  Now, of course, he will use this opportunity to gather points for being a loving supportive husband - when he is completely not these things.

- I made a comment to my husband about how we needed to focus on his mother and not his dad's antics and my husband was not happy I said that.  And he's right - it didn't need to be said at this point in his processing.  It's something my mother would have said.  I was wrong to say it.

During a time when I should be softening my heart against my MIL - I am only thinking of myself and how all of this will affect me.  So I said what I wanted to say and now I'm embarrassed and again focusing on myself and how bad I feel.

I am not proud of any of this. 

I'm disappointed that I carry such negativity that these are the things I immediately think of. 

I'm at a loss on how to proceed.  I didn't know it, but I had a fake relationship with my MIL for years as I worked hard to become important in this family.  When I came Out of the FOG I saw her in a new light I realized how much I didn't respect the way she handles her family relations or her own negativity.  I've been trying to come to terms with how to love and respect a mostly nice person who is flawed in ways that DO affect me.  My husband's mother will always be in our lives and I've wanted to just handle my emotions regarding her and love her for who she is.  This illness complicates my emotions.

I want her to be well.  I sent her a short text of support.

Later I will apologize to my husband for being unnecessarily negative about his dad.

I will focus on ways to support my husband and to be kind to MIL - with my mouth shut!

And I will try to refocus these negative feelings.

I apologized to my husband and he was absolutely fine and understood where I was coming from.

Case in point.  His mother finds out tomorrow what the medical gameplan is.  She doesn't know if there will be treatment or surgery or what.  Nevertheless, FIL is planning to leave tonight to go to the fishing cabin.  Alone.  As he does every weekend.   >:(

I know this is me, still being judgmental, BUT I'd be super pissed if my husband left (when he could easily stay) prior to finding out how the medical team is going to deal with this very scary situation.  I know that my husband (or his brother who is in the medical field) will be able to sit with her.  She won't be alone unless she chooses to be.

But, wouldn't you want to be there for your spouse, even just to comfort them and keep their mind at ease?  If my husband was going to be faced with this I'd insist on being there to help him make decisions, or arrangements, or to listen to his feelings.  And then to plan a night to cheer him up.

My opinion on their marriage doesn't matter.  I know this.  I'm just baffled by this family.

Hi Hopeful Spine,

I dunno. I've been learning a lot and reminding myself of some of the things that trauma experts now know about how to get Out of the FOG - and what we need to do to stay Out of the FOG. And from what I've learned, nothing that you said you are thinking or feeling sounds wrong to think or feel.

What I've learned is that in order to stay out of the fear, obligation and guilt that we used to live with, we need to give ourselves permission to feel what we feel. Obviously we also need to know when to act on it, but just feeling what we feel, is not wrong.

All the many videos online where Dr. Gabor Mate talks about the use of healthy anger, have been reminding me of how important it is to know when I'm angry, because it will help me to stay out of FOG. So that is where I'm coming from here.

What I'm seeing in your writing is your own very healthy view of a system full of people who probably have shown you (maybe many times) that they are not always good with boundaries, caring for each other and showing up in healthy ways.

I could be off base here but when we feel what we feel, it is for a good reason. It is often tied to our (important) work to keep ourselves Out of the FOG that we know exists in one of our family systems (in your case, your DH's system, that you are a member of as well).

In-law systems that are populated by PD's are very tricky to navigate. We do ourselves a favor by staying aware of our hesitation to get involved, because there's a lot of confusion and FOG when PD's are involved.

When I read your posts here, I see a lot of clarity and insight into how this particular family system, tends to operate. You sound insightful and concerned.

FWIW, I don't think it is being 'judgemental' to know that if you were in your MIL's situation, you would not appreciate your DH going on a fishing trip at that time! He's obviously fine abandoning her while he's fishing...Someone else can take care of her emotional needs. That's not his problem. Who knows if he is even aware of any of that, or if he doesn't even think about those things.

In a healthy marriage, it is possible for a spouse to say "I need to get away for a few days to fish, so that I have the energy for supporting you when I get back". But from what you've written, it doesn't sound like that is what is going on here.

What you are describing is the emotional support that we now assume and expect as "normal" in our marriages. But not everyone offers their spouse emotional support. Would I tolerate a marriage where I'm left alone while my spouse is off fishing on the weekend I am dealing with a cancer diagnosis? Hell no! I'm with you on this. That is not acceptable to me.

But in each marriage, the level of emotional support is determined by the more narcissistic spouse. So I guess in their marriage, your FIL is the more self-centered spouse. So he dictates how much emotional support is offered. Some marriages provide high levels of support, but many do not. We both know what level of support we want to have in our marriages. It is sad that your MIL has a spouse who leaves to go fishing.

If she is ok with it, that would be one thing. Those are arrangements that are made when people both agree. But it doesn't sound like you see this as an agreement they made together. For him to flee the scene each weekend. Or maybe they did?

You can't change your FIL's behaviour. But I don't think it is wrong of us to say to ourselves 'there's something I would not put up with'. I too am baffled by the family systems I've had to try to fit into. Baffled is a good word for it.

Trees

Quote from: treesgrowslowly on November 04, 2023, 08:55:06 AMI dunno. I've been learning a lot and reminding myself of some of the things that trauma experts now know about how to get Out of the FOG - and what we need to do to stay Out of the FOG. And from what I've learned, nothing that you said you are thinking or feeling sounds wrong to think or feel.

-----

If she is ok with it, that would be one thing. Those are arrangements that are made when people both agree. But it doesn't sound like you see this as an agreement they made together. For him to flee the scene each weekend. Or maybe they did?

Trees

Thanks for your comments.  I appreciate the validation that I'm "okay" with how I've been thinking.  I want to improve and I know there are ways I can.  But I also want to have human emotions and have that "healthy anger".  I want to stay Out of the FOG and not be pulled back in!  Thanks for mentioning that.


I struggle with my MIL because she is passive and allows poor behavior by everyone.  She listens to her husband be a total ass and then mocks him behind his back. 

I'm not saying he doesn't deserve the disrespect.  But is it healthy and kind to treat someone that way?  Wouldn't it be better for your loved one, and for the family as a whole, to speak to him after the party.  "I need to tell you that the way you acted at the Thanksgiving party was unacceptable.  You were cursing. You were rough with a few of the grandchildren, you drank too much and slurred most of the night.  Your children have a drinking game with you as the butt of the joke.  You need help or this family is going to degrade."

It's frustrating to see someone living a shitty life when they could be speaking up for themselves and living a better one.  I have a friend who beat cancer.  She had young children at the time, working in a job she didn't enjoy, and living somewhere she didn't like".  After cancer she made big changes in her life.  She now has HARD boundaries and she isn't afraid to say no to anything. Her kids come first and she's not about to go with the flow when sometime challenges her peace.  She gets annoyed with people who complain about their lives.  She has been annoyed with me at times and I was hurt by how she told me to make changes.  She was right though.  I have a lot of respect for her. 

I struggled with my marriage and it was the hardest thing I ever did but I made it better.  I look at MIL and think that she needs to do the same thing.  But I'm not her.

Hi Hopeful Spine,

Thanks for sharing that.

My MIL doesn't address her husband's behavior either. He does a lot that I would never put up with, but as you said, I have had to also tell myself "I"m not her."

At this point in my staying Out of the FOG journey, I really have had to learn about the healthy anger over and over. And also tied to that, the fact that the only stuff I have some control over is how I treat myself, and how I treat other people. I have no control over my FIL and how he behaves. This fact has been shown to me over and over throughout the years.

Trees

Quote from: treesgrowslowly on November 08, 2023, 06:52:28 AMHi Hopeful Spine,

Thanks for sharing that.

My MIL doesn't address her husband's behavior either. He does a lot that I would never put up with, but as you said, I have had to also tell myself "I"m not her."

At this point in my staying Out of the FOG journey, I really have had to learn about the healthy anger over and over. And also tied to that, the fact that the only stuff I have some control over is how I treat myself, and how I treat other people. I have no control over my FIL and how he behaves. This fact has been shown to me over and over throughout the years.

Trees

Here's what bothers me though.  I'm in a house full of people having a good time (some more than most  ;) ).  She asks him a question in her soft baby voice.  Instead of turning to look at her, or simply ask her to repeat herself, he will explode with an exasperated, "Excuse me!!!  I. can't. hear. a. word. you. are. saying.  You need to SPEAK UP!"

To be fair, she uses a soft baby voice and it's annoying.  It IS her natural speaking voice, he's probably annoyed always having to strain to hear her.  But I mean, it's always been her voice - he married her voice.

But he speaks to her with disgust and in a sharp, loud, halting way of speaking.  The sort of tone you take with the jerk guy who deliberately messes up your machine at the work shop.  Not to your wife who is only trying to get dinner going.

He's loud enough to command attention and we all stop but quickly continue on with our conversations, mixing a drink, finding a coaster.  We all make lots of eye contact and eye rolls.  It's agreed that everyone thinks he a jerk.  But none of us speak up.  Someone might say to MIL, "What do you need mom, I can help."  But not always.

My husband used to argue, "what's the point in talking to him?  He won't change and it will only make him worse if you challenge him."  Recently I told him that the point of speaking isn't to change his dad's behavior.  The point is to show his mother that she matters.  She is literally at a party with 40 people and not one person can tell her bully, "Cut it out dad. We don't speak to mom that way."  How humiliating.

My husband has spoken to his dad before and let him know that if he continued to overindulge and act aggressive that we would be leaving.  MIL took that moment to pull a "Yeah!  You need to . . ."  But my husband kept that moment for himself when he quieted his mother and said, "I don't want to be in a conversation where everyone piles on Dad.  I'm just letting you know how I feel and how I'm going to react if you continue."

At the time I was proud of him for saying that (still am, actually) but clearly his mother can only stand up to her husband if someone else paves the way.

Trees, maybe I need to take your view of striving to "Staying Out" of the fog".  I mean, I know what's, what.  I know these people's pattern.  I know the timelines and the results and the whole thing.  I know the part I'm supposed to play and I know how these people change towards me when I'm authentic.  I know how to cope.  I know how to protect.  I know how to reward myself after a difficult time.  I do NOT want to get sucked back in and involve myself with any of this.

DH's family does not like in-laws to get involved.  We aren't part of voicing opinions for small things like party arrangements or gifts.  We aren't included on several text chains.  We only get details if our spouses wish to tell us.  The siblings car pool and attend things that in laws are not invited to.  There are alliances I do not understand.  There are agendas that I don't have the details for.  There are a million inside jokes that I will never be privy to.  All of that is in the fog.

So why do I want to stress and fuss about a FIL and MIL who don't really regard me as a full member of this family?  Why do I want to control how these people handle their own father?  Why do I have feelings and opinions when MIL gets treated as badly as she (and the others in the fog) allow?

Why. On. Earth. Would. I. Go. Back. INTO. the Fog?!? 

Hi Hopeful Spine,

Well...watching someone get yelled at and treated poorly is upsetting because it's upsetting. Whether he is yelling at a stranger or me or a child or his wife, I was always upset when FIL was yelling.

It's my natural reaction to his disordered behaviour.

Your FIL could have all sorts of untreated psychological / mental health issues going on for him. He could have neurological issues that have never been treated. Maybe she tried a long time ago and she has known for a long time that he's never going to change.

Trees

Quote from: treesgrowslowly on November 10, 2023, 08:33:40 AMHi Hopeful Spine,

Well...watching someone get yelled at and treated poorly is upsetting because it's upsetting. Whether he is yelling at a stranger or me or a child or his wife, I was always upset when FIL was yelling.

It's my natural reaction to his disordered behaviour.

Your FIL could have all sorts of untreated psychological / mental health issues going on for him. He could have neurological issues that have never been treated. Maybe she tried a long time ago and she has known for a long time that he's never going to change.

Trees

Thanks for all this.  I do suspect that your last sentence is true.  They will NEVER divorce so I believe she has accepted her fate with her husband.  Still, I tend to believe that people can change.  I've seen permanent change in my husband.  It's not easy but it can happen.  It took realization and commitment but my husband broke his cycle and we lived (mostly) happily ever after.  I had to accept a lot, I had to change too and I really had to establish and enforce boundaries.  All of which I needed to do to grow as a person anyway.  None of it was easy - but it was all worth it.

So I look at this situation and think that they just have to work harder to achieve what I think they need in order to be happy.  It's frustrating to see a man degrade his family (while we all allow it) and watch a woman just give up.  None of this feels good, safe or hopeful.

But I did not live her life.  It's not my place to judge.  I can only control me.

My MIL has received another blow to her health issues.  Again, nothing truly serious but it's stressful and scary, especially in addition to her other issue.  Once again he goes to the fishing cabin with almost no reaction.  She told him before a school assembly and they had ample time to discuss but he changed the subject.  They enjoyed the assembly and he left directly from the school without even saying "goodbye" to her.  MIL told my husband about it and she was crying.  He is planning to talk to his dad to make sure he realizes what is coming.  There are multiple surgeries and MIL is going to need help.  Can FIL assist on any level or is he planning to escape to the cabin? 

Once again I find myself ruminating over FIL's past behavior.  Imaging conversations I'd have to put him straight.  How I'll deal with him at the holidays - or not.  This is an unhealthy path I'm on and I need to switch gears and let others handle their own problems and work on the boundaries that I will keep in place for myself.

Hi Hopeful Spine,

Do you think your FIL is an emotionally immature person EIP - as described by Dr. Lindsay Gibson? If you suspect that he is an EIP, then maybe her advice on how to approach conversations with him will give you some ideas.

I also agree with you - it is not your job to try to educate your FIL on how to properly behave right now, in light of his wife's health issues and need for support. It's not DH's job either. 

You mentioned imagining conversations you'd have with him. I get it. I think the "unsent letters" section of this forum has helped a lot of people. Even though I have never posted my unsent letters to that area, I have found that writing letters I'll never send, is really useful. You write out what you would say to that person, and then you get it off your chest and in my experience, it helps to address the rumination about their (upsetting) behaviors. In writing a letter we'll never send, we get to say what we wish we could say, without censoring ourselves. It can be cathartic when we've got a difficult personality in our lives.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/parents-who-drive-you-cra_b_7511242

Trees

Quote from: treesgrowslowly on November 12, 2023, 10:48:58 AMhttps://www.huffpost.com/entry/parents-who-drive-you-cra_b_7511242

Trees

Thanks so much for this link and the kind words.  That link looks helpful.  I'll look forward to reading it.

Today I feel bad for other reasons.  I snapped at a person who was only trying to help me yesterday.  To be fair this person has tendencies to sort of overshadow me.  We're teammates on a committee and for various reasons she is the stronger contributor, which makes me feel insecure.  Yesterday she was micromanaging me.  I tried to "joke" about it but what I said sounded super jerky.  She is not a mean person, I really like her a lot and we usually work well together.  I feel justified for speaking up but I executed it terribly.  Her face immediately registered hurt and surprise.  I apologized immediately.  We smoothed it over but after she left I felt terrible so I sent her an apology text, which she accepted.

Learning how to speak up, be assertive, and establish boundaries continues to be hard. 

Looking back I know how I could have better handled the situation.  I know my reaction was mostly due to be overworked and overwhelmed with other things.  She was overstepping for sure.  But she did NOT deserve to be snapped at.  I'm embarrassed.  I know she will tell other people in our group (she's really good (best) friends with some of them).

It was a small, negative interaction in an otherwise excellent work and friendship relationship so I know it's not the end of the world.  But I'm just feeling bad about it all today.

I had a very annoying conversation with my mother, returned to my office to have lunch and decided to read the emotionally immature parent article.  I thought it would help with my FIL but as it turns out - it 100% applied to how I was raised.

QuoteWhile the emotionally immature parent may act like a normal adult in the outside world, their self-involved and controlling behavior comes out full force at home. They ignore their children's emotional needs because they are focused on their own consuming desires for attention and control. As a result, their children end up feeling insignificant and emotionally alone.

 :yeahthat:

This past week has been super challenging.  I'm constantly frustrated, overwhelmed and unhappy with my decisions.  Snapping at my friend was out of character and it rattled me.  I still haven't forgiven myself and keep replaying her hurt face. 

I had to go to the nearby city yesterday to pick up stuff and I found myself totally checking out and loving it.  In my small town you need to smile, wave, say hello.  I'm friendly with a lot of people.  I have a lot of things I'm involved in.  In a city you can zone out, avoid eye contact, be neutral. It was wonderful.

Today I'm back in "hometown" mode and it's not been easy.  My buttons are being pushed and I don't like how I feel.  I'm worried I'm going to say something rude again.  It took everything I had to get out of my mom's house without losing it.

My sister, who is somewhat special needs, achieved something.  She'd been estranged from us for almost 20 years and back for one year.  She's not really living her life how we think she should, but she's not doing anything illegal or morally incorrect so really, it's none of our business.  Anyway, she achieved something that we felt she should have done within the first month of being "back".  Instead of celebrating that she has finally done the good thing, my mother is pushing for her to do the next thing on "our" list for her. 

It's so annoying how she acts like she's in charge and if it wasn't for her nothing would be achieved.  Push, push, push.  And a load of judgement while doing it.  I am happy that I've learned not to engage.  So today I tried to point out the success in the matter.  I reminded her that we don't really know what it was like for my sister to live her old life and transition to a new one.  I warned her that pushing might cause her to retreat.  Mom agreed to each point but fired back with other points.  It was exhausting.

Almost every time I have a conversation with my mom she says a variation of the same thing, "I asked your sister once why she left the way she did and she never said why.  I must have done something awful to make her leave."  This is my cue to say, "Oh mom, you did everything right.  She was the one who was wrong." 

I do not indulge her anymore.  Now I just change the subject or ask her a simple question about her plants or cookies.  That is what I tried to do today.

The truth is, my mom tore down any self esteem I had and made us all emotionally unstable and wary of joy.  I was more "normal" with decent grades, friends at school and a part time job that valued me.  I became a high functioning people-pleaser.  My sister, wasn't so lucky and she landed in the first lap that would take her.  I can't even imagine the sort of situations she's been through.

Days like today I get so angry at how my mother can be.  My brother once asked my why I didn't have children.  He said, "mom wants to know and she afraid to ask you because she doesn't want you to cry."  How much more emotionally immature can a person be then to avoid a real conversation that might lead to emotions?

Anyway, Mom doesn't actually bother me all that much anymore.  It's just today everything is piling up.  Every single person who has asked something of me is just another straw.  Every person who I see behaving poorly, is another straw.  The Fed Ex guy even bothered me (another little straw). 

My husband spoke to his brother about their dad.  He spends more time with their parents than we do. It turns out that he views their parents relationship even worse than we do.  He thinks they actually hate each other. (that's a lot of straws).

The rest of this week is jam packed and I don't see relief until Monday.  I know I need to just "stop".  Stop kicking myself for snapping.  Stop feeding into mom's negativity.  Stop thinking about my in laws marriage.  Stop saying "yes" when I need to say "no" so that I'm not overwhelmed like this.  Right now I need to clean my lunch dishes, say a prayer and restart my day.  And I will. 

But that camel's back is getting real weak.

"Be where your feet are."

I've been feeling sorry for myself lately and letting the weight of the world (other people's worlds actually) drag me down.  Yesterday I spent a good portion of the day dreading a night time meeting because the gal I snapped at would be there, and I feared it would be awkward.  It was not.  It was actually very fun.

I've been stressing about my in-laws marriage.  My husband attended a little get together last night and his parents were lovely and pleasant.  His dad is newly on medication and can't drink.  For the moment things are okay and my husband was happy.  None of my stressing contributed to this positive turn of events.

I could list the many other things on my mind.  All things that I am not in charge of.  All things that don't require my assistance.  All things that are completely beyond my control.  But the better solution would be for me to take my Pinterest sourced quote and get on with my day.

"Be where your feet are."

I have a big event today and a wealth of tasks to complete.  I am overwhelmed but if I waste any more time this day will be a disaster.  It's time to focus on my own responsibilities and let other people deal with their own lives.

I'm glad it turned out fine with the interaction after you snapped at that lady. Your feelings about that were super relatable. I feel that when I make a mistake I may as well just stop existing now. I'm exposed, a failure, everyone knows it, cover blown, game over. We know in our heads that's not true but growing up in minefields like we did we were always one misstep away from disaster. It takes a lot of making mistakes and having it be, just, you know, normal and okay for our inner child to unlearn that. :hug:

Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on November 15, 2023, 09:28:38 PMI'm glad it turned out fine with the interaction after you snapped at that lady. Your feelings about that were super relatable. I feel that when I make a mistake I may as well just stop existing now. I'm exposed, a failure, everyone knows it, cover blown, game over. We know in our heads that's not true but growing up in minefields like we did we were always one misstep away from disaster. It takes a lot of making mistakes and having it be, just, you know, normal and okay for our inner child to unlearn that. :hug:

Yes.  All of this.  It's exactly, how I felt.  I know it's not true and I wish I could process it quicker.

I'm tired.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone.

Hi Hopeful spine,

Patrick Teahan (who does therapy and inner child work) says that when we start to do inner child work, we can feel worse before we start to feel better. It is depressing to realize how emotionally stunted our own parents are. And how many emotionally immature people are in our lives.

It can be hard on weeks like this, when even the Fed Ex guy is pushing our stress button.

For me it happens when I'm trying to take care of too many people who are full grown adults. People lean on us a lot sometimes, and that makes the camels back weak. In most immature family systems, there are a few people who get leaned on. But what about when we need support? I think that is what , understandably, leads to the tired feelings. I think that a lot of us end up giving from an empty bucket, I know I have done this most of my life and it is hard to course correct it. So I hear you when you describe the tired feelings you're having.

Trees

Hi Hopeful Spine,

You are a person who is in touch with her emotions, very unlike your mom! 

In your last post, you said you'd been "feeling sorry" for yourself so much lately. I see now evidence in your writing of a woman who is feeling sorry for yourself:  I see a woman who is learning to feel compassion for herself, compassion as she explores how to be in her world. 

It is hard for us who did not have good parental roll models in our world, often a world in which we were forced to think more about the other, dysfunctional people, than about ourselves. 

Hi again,

In my first post, meant to write "I see NO evidence of a woman who is feeling sorry for herself..."   My apologies for the typo, but the words are heartfelt.  I really feel that you are seeing things clearly and moving ahead accordingly.  And there is a big difference between feeling sorry for yourself, and having compassion for yourself as you work on the life you want to lead!

Not to sound trite, but if we don't have compassion for ourselves, we can't have compassion for others.  Although of course having compassion for others doesn't mean letting PDs ride roughshod over us.  We can feel compassion, while protecting ourselves from their dysfunction.

Wishing you all the best! 

Quote from: countrygirl on November 17, 2023, 07:43:05 AMIt is hard for us who did not have good parental roll models in our world, often a world in which we were forced to think more about the other, dysfunctional people, than about ourselves. 

Thanks for your kind words.  This stuck out to me.  Growing up it was everything to keep the home quiet for dad.  No arguing, no excessive laughing, no getting in trouble.  You needed to be quiet during dinner (dad liked the TV on, we could talk during commercials).  And you certainly didn't talk while he was driving!  The thing is though - Dad isn't a terrible person.  In fact, he's very friendly, funny and playful.  No doubt many of those qualities appeared after retirement.  I'm sure he wasn't always this way.  But my mom always seemed so terrified of keeping him happy that I assumed he was dangerous.  I lived my life as if I was in danger.

When you grow up with the job of keeping the adults in your life happy - you think that is just your role in the world.  The lucky people got to giggle whenever they wanted.  The lucky people were allowed to get excited about the Boy Band.  But not you, sadly.  So you do what makes your teachers happy.  Your coach.  Your boss at your part time job.  The parents of your friends.  After awhile it becomes real easy to learn what makes one sort of person happy vs. another person. 

I knew which of my friends parents wanted us to do the dishes after dinner and I knew which parents just wanted us to leave the mess and scram.  I knew how to get a good grade from specific teachers (spoiler alert - I just needed to be extra nice and my essays (subjective) would always receive an A).  I knew my boss at the ice cream shop would be pleased if I kept the counter clean.  I knew my 21 year old boyfriend would be happy if I was his designated driver (as I celebrated my newly acquired drivers permit at age 15.)

When you grow older and adults are less of a focus it's easy to translate your people-pleasing behavior to your peers.  And when you have a difficult person in your life - it becomes a challenge to figure them out.  To "win" them over.  To succeed at making them happy.

When you are only happy when you've made others happy - it's very easy to forget yourself in the process.

I'll tell you what happens to people like me.  You work your ass off to make others happy and then, during different pockets of time during the day, you treat yourself to something secret that makes you happy.  Expensive make up that you can't afford but can easily hide.  An extra pair of shoes that your husband would never notice.  Junk food becomes a daily reward and not just an occasional treat.  These are the safer vices that one can indulge in.

And then one day you find yourself in debt, overweight, in a truly shitty marriage and living life with a bunch of people you don't really like.  You find that you are officially tired of working hard to make them happy.  Looking around - you discover that very little about your life is real.  Plus, the responsibility to turn your life around is yours alone.  To become healthy you need to change a lot of your personality which is a same because you know you are a very wonderful person.  But you have to because you are just not emotionally healthy. 

And the topper of the whole thing - all those people you served during your people pleasing days - will not help you.  You used to think everyone else was good and you were bad.
 But now you have to sort out who is good and who is bad.  And YOU (not others) will have to teach yourself that YOU are good.  Even when you feel like a failure.  Hopefully you have at least one kind and compassionate friend to be your anchor.  But for the most part - no one is going to work hard to make you happy.  People pleasers are a rare breed and they rarely flock together.  God help the people pleaser who befriends another people pleaser. 

When you've spent a good 40 years living a people pleasers life - it's very hard to turn things around.  So if there are anyone young people reading this - do yourself a huge favor and just STOP.  Get help and learn different ways to cope with the people in your life.  Your future you will thank you!

Lately I've been feeling things slipping backwards.  It's not a surprise - the holidays are here and that is when people are the most difficult for me to navigate.  It feels lonely when you have to shrug and walk away from someone but sometimes that feels like the only choice I have. 

For instance, I needed help with something in my home so I invited my mother over to help.  I really debated before I did this.  She arrived, pleased to be included and it was nice.  Then she started to pick on things.  I had redecorated this whole room.  I did most everything by myself.  I choose the paint, the furnishings.  I prepped the walls, I cleaned (scrubbed), I moved large things, I painted for several weekends in a row.  I had a budget and I was pleased with how I used furniture from other rooms in the house to fully complete this room.  It is beautiful.  It's the first room I enter when I arrive home and I get a little thrill each time that I did something beautiful. 

It's not perfect.  We don't have the funds to do a full renovation.  We don't have the time to make this room to everyones standards.  But for my style, my time, and my money - I'm happy to have a freshly gleaming room with curated furnishings and picture perfect decor.

Mom made some comments, "Oh, you know you could put a countertop and chairs in this section." 

"Well, the new paint covers that imperfect wall, it's not so bad." 

"gee, maybe you could have your husband do XYZ - that would make it look at lot better" (Insinuating that he's done nothing with this renovation and also knowing full well how terribly busy my husband is with his growing business).

I wish I could post pictures of the very, very good job I have done.  Especially since I lived years in unfinished homes because I feared I'd waste money by doing a poor job.  It took a lot of courage for me to decorate this room.  A great deal of personal effort.  No one knows how much panic I felt choose a rug or deciding on the perfect paint.  I worked through it, giving myself plenty of grace.

But is wasn't good enough.  After all her comments I fell into an old habit.  I tried to "win" her over by gossiping about someone we know.  Someone I had no business gossiping about.  My mother warmed and instead of focusing on how I didn't do things better, she enjoyed the conversation.  But I didn't.  I felt terrible that she didn't love my room.  I felt terrible about talking about another person.  And I wanted to be alone.

Because people pleasers feel their best - when alone.

I got over all this.  I made peace with my gossip (done and done!) and I decided that mom isn't a safe person when I'm showing off my efforts.  She will never be a regular guest in my home because of how SHE behaves when she's in it.  A part of me is still super sad that I didn't make my mother happy that day.  But it's only a small part of me.  I didn't crumble.  That is growth.

 :blink:

Wow, I didn't mean to write all of this today but clearly it's been bothering me.  This morning a high school friend sent me some pictures of us at some of her childhood birthday parties.  I look sweet in the photos.  I can't remember the parties but I can see that I was cared for.  I loved dresses and I was wearing a dress in every photo - even when the other kids were wearing much more casual shorts.  Mom put my hair up in a pony tail.  I look "normal" and it's weird to think that I have never felt normal.  It's clear that mom cared for me but she didn't (couldn't) do what she should have done for me and the past can't be changed.  But I can change now.

I continue to be grateful to have this forum to work through my issues.  I'm happy to have support (as much as strangers can support a life they can only trust is real).  I'm lucky to be on this side of things where I feel more hopeful than I feel defeated.

If you needed confirmation that your mum isn't the person to compliment you, make you feel good about yourself, now you have it. We all need to go a few steps back, now and then. It's good to be reminded that as adults, we don't look to the outside for self confidence, even if it's nice to have.
Congratulations on your room decoration success! If you love the room and feel safe and happy in it, that is all that matters.

Quote from: notrightinthehead on November 21, 2023, 02:27:54 AMIf you needed confirmation that your mum isn't the person to compliment you, make you feel good about yourself, now you have it. We all need to go a few steps back, now and then. It's good to be reminded that as adults, we don't look to the outside for self confidence, even if it's nice to have.

Thanks for this.  Yes, after that conversation with my mom I could see that I invited her over because I wanted to feel close to someone.  But it came with a price.  My old habit of gossiping with her doesn't work anymore (thank goodness).  I cannot count on my mom.


Navigating feelings today.  MIL has a doctors appointment and everyone is confused on what the appointment is actually for (some thought she was having surgery, some thought it was just an appointment.  Some thought the appointment was for a secondary health issue.  No one knows if FIL will be attending with her.  My husband is on 6 or 7 text message threads with mostly the same people.  One thread it's all his siblings.  Another thread it's only the local siblings.  Another thread it's the fishing crew with a few family friends.  Another one is the fishing crew without his dad. 

Only one thread includes all his siblings, his parents, AND the in laws.  But that thread doesn't have all the info.  Just the info they want the in-laws to know.

Sometimes medical issues are shared with everyone.  Sometimes just the boys. Sometimes just a few select people who might be attending an appointment or otherwise dealing with something specific.  My husband is constantly scrolling on his phone to retrieve the info to relay it to me.  Not to mention the sheer amount of texts he receives in a day.  We can go to a movie and when he checks his phone after we get to the car, he will literally have 80 texts.

Eighty texts from people who don't treat you with respect or play mind games.  Eighty opportunities to feel included or be shown that he's not. He's tried to streamline this whole thing but it never works.  Obviously he assumes they have a thread going where he's not included.

Anyway, during all this turmoil with my MIL she insists on helping my husband with his business.  If she has a doctors appointment at 8:30 she will want to hustle back to help him at noon.  He tries to say no and she gets so disappointed that he relents and changes his work schedule so that she can help.

He doesn't even need her help.  She truly IS helpful.  But all the work she does, he could easily do during the course of his day.  He bends over to accommodate her in his workday.  I should think that this is sweet but I really resent it.

And I KNOW that she isn't trying to get in the way.  I KNOW that she is very proud of him and wants to be a part of things.  I KNOW that working for him gives her a good feeling.  But there is no place for me with her there.  If I show up in the course of a day it feels weird. Like I've interrupted their private party.

Plus her negativity drags him down.  And her absolute devotion to him skews how he thinks I should treat him.  I simply can't agree and smile and pretend he is perfect every time I interact with him.  When he's spent too much time with her he becomes prickly with me when I'm only honest with him.

I KNOW that these are not MIL problems.  These are issues that my husband needs to address.  My irritation with her isn't really fair.  But there it is.

So I'm thinking of her today with her appointment.  Obviously I want her to be okay.  It just makes me feel weird to harbor such irritation towards her at this time.  It's hard for me to continue to give my husband grace when he's obviously out of sorts with all the dysfunction going on. 

Oh, they're husband problems all right, but who installed the wonky programming? Yeah. MIL. I'm irritated with her too.

My husband too had a mother who would treat him as if he were perfect. Well, she wishes he would be a little more like HER in certain ways, but in front of the imaginary audience he is just great great great. Their whole family and their whole life is just smile for the camera, wow aren't you lucky?  So if I'm not buying into all happy all the time, I'm clearly the problem. Why do I have to be so negative? He's always been fine going along to get along.

He has stuff to work on, absolutely. But dialing down the volume on MIL was great great great for our marriage.

That feeling of irritation at that level of enmeshment is telling you something very real. And which is it, she's truly helpful or really kind of a nuisance. You seem to be really conflicted about her.

Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on November 22, 2023, 10:01:38 PMOh, they're husband problems all right, but who installed the wonky programming? Yeah. MIL. I'm irritated with her too.

My husband too had a mother who would treat him as if he were perfect. Well, she wishes he would be a little more like HER in certain ways, but in front of the imaginary audience he is just great great great. Their whole family and their whole life is just smile for the camera, wow aren't you lucky?  So if I'm not buying into all happy all the time, I'm clearly the problem. Why do I have to be so negative? He's always been fine going along to get along.

He has stuff to work on, absolutely. But dialing down the volume on MIL was great great great for our marriage.

That feeling of irritation at that level of enmeshment is telling you something very real. And which is it, she's truly helpful or really kind of a nuisance. You seem to be really conflicted about her.

Thank you for this.  Yes, my husband's family is very "smile for the camera" too.  And the "aren't you lucky" really hits home.  Yesterday at the gathering they started chatting about something and it turned into how "cool" our family is and how people just love to be around us.  Puke.  No. 

And thank you for your real question of "is she truly helpful or really kind of a nuisance?"  She is a nuisance who truly hustles to make herself useful.  And I have been part of the problem. 

I do feel bad for her and her terrible marriage.  So at times, in public, I've sung her praises in front of her peers.  And she LOVED IT.  I've made her feel special by taking pictures of her and my husband at work.  She LOVED IT.  She gets such a glow when I do these little things and I feel good about making her happy.  But she runs with it.  It gives a false sense of my comfort level.  Then, when she behaves as if she is essential - I get irritated and resentful of her. 

Because no one is praising the small things I contribute.  No one is taking my picture.  No one is telling me I'm important.  She's lapping up all the credit I'm giving her.  And my husband hasn't a clue on the kindness that I'm extending nor the struggle I'm having.

It started off that I felt like I was giving her a gift.  That being generous with her level of involvement in our life was something special I was doing.  That it was kind to include her in something important to us.  That it costs me nothing to express appreciation in a public way.

I don't know how to unravel this mess that I contributed to.  Especially now with her health issues.  To cut her off, during a scary time when she's getting little support from her husband, seems cruel.  My husband is going to make her take time off to heal from her procedures.  I hope to use the time after her procedures are complete, and she is safely recovering, to share my feelings with my husband. 

He often says, "I don't really need her help."  But I know he wants her to be happy so he includes her. 

She IS a nuisance and I feel guilty for wanting to take back the praise I've given her.  I feel resentful that no one realizes or appreciates my efforts and kindness. These aren't pretty feelings but that's about the sum of it.

 :-[

In other news - I find that grey rocking is more difficult for me than faking happiness.  I grey rocked my ass off yesterday and I guess it worked.  Everyone was on their best behavior around me.  I had an okay conversation with my previously estranged family member.  My PD sister-in-law was nice and asked me lots of questions about my life.  She sat next to me and was obviously trying to be friendly.  I was polite and answered and asked and made all the social efforts.  There were times I wanted to jump in and make jokes or add to a larger conversation and I didn't because I didn't want to get involved.  I was polite, I was kind, I was boring.  I felt sad the whole time.

When you aren't trying to play their game it gives you lots of time to watch what is happening around you.  I could see all the relationships and conversations that happened easily between them.  I felt hurt as I learned things that the others have known for month (a kid having a big part in a play, someone else doing construction on their home, those sorts of things) I watched the family friends join the party with all sort of happy inclusion.  I knew I wasn't really trying.  I could see some of the irritating jokes that my husband sometimes makes (think along the lines of Sheldon Cooper).  I could feel all my feelings and I certainly felt weak, boring, and problematic.  I felt like I was sitting in the middle of a great family party and I was the problem.

The old me would have faked it and I would have enjoyed the temporary thrill of feeling popular and liked.  It would have been all fake but I'd be faking it too.  Those feelings would cancel each other out and I'd be fine - for awhile.

My husband will be leaving for a few days and I'm very much looking forward to a little alone time to sort through these things.

Hi Hopeful Spine,

It's odd, isn't it, that sometimes being true to ourselves can be so difficult?  You are really coming Out of the FOG and seeing things as they are.   

I was vey moved by your description of your room.  That room is symbolic of how you are "redecorating" yourself, becoming who you are, not who others want you to be.  Just as you love going to that room when you come home, you are starting to love yourself.  It sounds as if you'd often rather be by yourself than with dysfunctional people. 

There are many inspirational stories on this forum, and yours is definitely one of them.  In freeing yourself to become who you are, you are helping to free others.  Just working on one room at a time can ultimately transform the whole house, and sometimes a whole neighborhood, so to speak! 

Quote from: countrygirl on November 24, 2023, 12:33:47 PMHi Hopeful Spine,

It's odd, isn't it, that sometimes being true to ourselves can be so difficult?  You are really coming Out of the FOG and seeing things as they are.   

I was vey moved by your description of your room.  That room is symbolic of how you are "redecorating" yourself, becoming who you are, not who others want you to be.  Just as you love going to that room when you come home, you are starting to love yourself.  It sounds as if you'd often rather be by yourself than with dysfunctional people. 

There are many inspirational stories on this forum, and yours is definitely one of them.  In freeing yourself to become who you are, you are helping to free others.  Just working on one room at a time can ultimately transform the whole house, and sometimes a whole neighborhood, so to speak! 

Thank you for all these words.  I spend a lot of time looking at my beautiful life and feeling pathetic because (even with my many blessings) I can't seem to move past things.  I often feel like I'm forever going to be holding grudges and fighting with my inner self.  I get very irritated with myself and my petty thoughts.  Before I even get out of bed in the morning I'm thinking of a grievance or shortcoming or thinking of how I've been robbed in one way or another.  Then I distract myself with a podcast as I get ready for the day.  Finally on my commute I thank God for everything.  I truly do have a lovely life full of wonderful people and so many blessings.  But then the day is a roller coaster of thoughts that bring me flashes of anger, pain, shame, followed by my inner voice reminding me that I'm okay.  That I'm good.

I can't seem to find a therapist that will aggressively push me towards health and perhaps that is because it is something that only I can do for myself.  I'm trying but it's just taking SO LONG!!!

I found this quote on pinterest recently and it speaks to me:

QuoteIt's hardest to be who you are if you did really well at being who you're not.

I am so much more happy when I'm around new friends, new situations, new customers.  I am able to be friendly but have boundaries.  I'm able to accept them for who they are a I either like them and enjoy them - or I dislike them and keep a distance that allows me to be kind but safe.  I can say "no" and not stress over it.  I am FUN!  I feel fun!

But when I'm around old friends or customers, or this dysfunctional family I've been a part of for 20ish years - I sweat and stress and can't seem to find footing.  I hate to admit but sometimes I feel that way around my husband.  There is a part of me that doesn't want them to know the new me.  I haven't sorted that out yet and I HOPE that someday all this hard work falls into place and I can function without all this inner stress.

Hi,

That quotation is really true, isn't it? 

When we've been rewarded, to some extent, for being who we are not, being who we are can be scary and it definitely takes time.
 
To me, it sounds as if you have an accurate read on yourself:  That you are in a transitional phase.  It is hard work, but you're doing it.

It occurs to me that maybe you start thinking about "grievances" with others, because if you hadn't had such a difficult FOO, like so many of us there, your life would have been easier.  So you are fed up with difficult people!  You want them out of the way, so you can be yourself.  I don't think you're doing anything bad by having these thoughts. Feeling anger in general is part of the transition.

Sometimes finding a therapist who really "gets" you can be hard, too.  It doesn't seem "fair," because we want to change, and it seems that finding someone to help us shouldn't be work, not on top of the work we're already wiling to undertake!  But it's like finding a life partner, a good friend or a business partner:  It's a matter of luck and hanging in there until we find the right person.  They ARE out there.

Change is hard.  I know I'm still dealing with issues because of the template which was set in my FOO.  I guess we all can say that it's good to appreciate the journey. One of my best friends, who was really a remarkable woman, continued to work on herself into old age. It was that self-awareness and humility which made her remarkable.  Everyone is always a work in progress.   

My MIL is having a minor procedure today.  Minor but still scary, especially since she had the much more serious surgery scheduled in another week.  In our very, very, active family text chain she's received no support.  I texted something kind.  Then a little later my husband added something nice.  But the rest of the 22 people haven't made one peep in this "close", "supportive", "fun", "cool" family.

I don't understand it.

Putting aside my conflicted feelings, I have to admit - she never fails to remember important things that the rest of us are going through.  She gives gifts, cards, texts.  She always shows up for people.  It might be superficial and self-serving sometimes but that is how this family rolls.  She has legitimate health issues and everyone knows that her husband shows her zero support.  He decided to go to the family cabin instead of (I dunno) drive her to the procedure and, (I dunno) cheer her up after.  >:(  I don't understand why people are choosing to not give her some positive chatter on a lousy text chain? 

They certainly showed up for the eldest sibling when he had health issues.  In a big way.

I can only hope that the others texted her privately and that she IS going into her procedure feelings loved.

Days like today are why I feel conflicted about her.  I used to be her.  I always showed up.  I always remembered.  I thought I had everyone in my pocket.  Then when I had surgery I looked around and found almost no one supporting me.  I don't wish that feeling on anyone. 

Back then I needed that kick in the gut to learn that I needed to revise how much I invest in everyone else.  I remember that time well.  Healing my body as well as my heart.  Even though I continue to spend spurts of time here lamenting my very being - I know how much more healthy I am now and I am glad for that wake up call.  And for the time I invested in myself these last years.

Just a quick vent so I don't dump my irritation onto my husband.

MIL just sent a family text to say she was done with her procedure.  She happily reported that she arrived 30 minutes prior to appointment, checked in and then, only one minute later, was called back to the room.  That is all she texted.

A sibling (finally) contributed and said, "great, so everything went okay?"

She then replies with an update that was not at all positive.  The doctor found more issues and had to go deeper than he expected.  She has extra recovery and extra appointments already scheduled for additional lab results.

 :blink:

When you are updating family on this sort of thing - the takeaway shouldn't be that you got into your appointment early.  We don't care about that!  Tell us what has happened with your health!!

It's like a weird mind game for her to express pleasure about her early check in and then deliver negative news in a secondary fashion.

This is a perfect example of what I've been complaining about.  I felt sorry for her because of the lack of support for her.  And now, all I am is annoyed at how weird she is being about reporting important information.  She does this sort of thing all the time.

Yikes. I'm so sorry. I will say, that that sort of "toxic positivity" can be adaptive when real support is lacking. As the scapegoat, I learned that my needs, my suffering, was simply not important and would not be recognized. My role was to be okay and to support everyone else. My stuff was invisible. If I had to communicate anything negative, I had better sugarcoat it with all the, "I can totally handle it and you needn't worry at all," I could muster. Your MIL's, "Got in early! Bad news," reminds me of that.

Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on November 27, 2023, 05:21:20 PMYikes. I'm so sorry. I will say, that that sort of "toxic positivity" can be adaptive when real support is lacking. As the scapegoat, I learned that my needs, my suffering, was simply not important and would not be recognized. My role was to be okay and to support everyone else. My stuff was invisible. If I had to communicate anything negative, I had better sugarcoat it with all the, "I can totally handle it and you needn't worry at all," I could muster. Your MIL's, "Got in early! Bad news," reminds me of that.

Thanks for pointing this out.  I too have done this sort of thing without realizing.  Instead of feeling compassion for her coping mechanism I jump to irritation.

I believe it's time for me to step away from the situation.

My MIL did drive herself to the procedure.  She drove herself home while most of her family were at the family cabin.  While most of her in-laws would have taken time to driven her - had we known what was going on.

A few days later my FIL called her and she told him that she drove herself to a Healing Prayer Service a few towns over.  He was irritated because "when I had surgery and six months later wanted to go on a fishing trip she told me that it wasn't a good idea!  And here she is, only days after her surgery and she's driving all over the place!"

My husband pointed out to his dad that HE was okay with his wife driving herself home from the surgery so why on earth did he think she couldn't manage to drive herself 15 miles to church, several days later?  FIL didn't have anything else to say.

So I have decided that I need to STOP.  As terrible as I feel about how she is being treated - she is not my mother, I'm only an in-law and in-law have their place in this family.  Plus, no one is asking for my feelings or for me to step in and help.  MIL is not expressing any feelings on the matter. I'm the one making a big deal over this.

Plus, I need to stop sharing my frustrations on this topic on this forum as it's only allowing me another avenue to share judgements and feed my annoyance.

ALL OF THIS BOGGLES MY MIND!!!!  But I need to stop asking my husband questions.  I need to stop trying to piece together these situations.  I need to make peace with the fact that 20 years into this family - I'm not considered close enough to be asked to help my MIL.  I need to make peace with the fact that I'm in a family that thinks it's okay to ignore what someone is going through.  I need to figure out how to disengage from this shitshow without feeling guilty or like I'm failing people.

No one cares except for me. Or until a funeral happens.  Then this family goes nuts with fanfare, emotions, and wild displays of grief.  Then they "care".

More and more I'm seeing that I might need to go no contact with this family.  They aren't "terrible" but I just can't handle how I feel in regards to them.

QuoteWhen a pattern is finally coming to an end, especially one that has been held in your body for a long time, that's also when you face the most fear and the most resistance because being set free actually feels incredibly uncomfortable and unsafe in relations to continuing to play out what you've always known. 

Pinterest has been my friend lately and this quote is really speaking to me.

I have always had a picture of myself being "good".  I know I've typed those words a bunch of times.  "I just want someone to tell me that I'm a good person."  And I've worked my ass off trying to get people to acknowledge that I'm a "good person".  Behaving in a way that makes me appear "good".  Going the extra mile.  Saying the nice thing.  First to get there, last to leave, never give up, sort of thing. 

At my very core I KNEW I was good because I did everything that makes one "good".  To a fault.  I'd text at the right time, plan get togethers with people who would never plan them with me.  I helped people in their time of need.  I shared intimate things about myself all the time to make people feel better about themselves.  I let myself be the butt of "jokes" to prove that I had a good sense of humor.  Befriending the least popular person really made me feel "good".  I was a savior, a martyr.  And I liked knowing internally that even thought I wasn't "perfect", I was pretty darn close.  In a humble way I really felt like I was the best version of myself and if we all took turns doing the things I was doing - everyone would be a lot happier.

When I stopped being "good" I felt very, very bad.

When people didn't pick up my slack I felt even worse.

When I showed my true self and didn't receive my usual praise I sunk even lower.

But I was breaking my patterns.  Giving up control.  Trying to accept that "good" was a fluid term.  And all that was hard but I knew it was the path to health.

It would get easier, I knew.

And it did.

But now it's even harder.

And I'm more scared that I've ever been.

Because I liked being "good".  Being "good" was the most important thing to me.  I still know how to be (that version of) good.  I know how to work a person to extract the sort of behavior I want.  If I want a fun girls trip I only have to plan it and then email all the info that will make the weekend easier for them.  I know how to send individual texts to each person, crafted so that they are most happy.  To one gal I'd be jokey and fun.  To the other girl I'd pump up her ego by complimenting her fun nature (because I knew that if I could get her to be her best - then the weekend would be a success).  I knew how to pick the right restaurants to make one person happy.  I knew the extra little gifts to bring along to make everyone feel happy and loved.

And it all worked.  And it was EASY for me to do every one of these exhausting things.  I just did it.  And it gave me a huge sense of self.  Worth.  Esteem.

And that is just one example.  I had patterns for my parents, my husband, clients, neighbors, sales clerks.  It's not hard to find out what makes others tick - you just have to have the right conversations, text exchange or a really long email.  And you can lock a person in and, I guess, control them to make yourself feel good.

Stopping this sort of toxic behavior is terrifying.  Even when it's done as slowly as I have painfully done.

You realize how fake you were. 

You realize how superficial it all was.

You see the people you worked so hard on - continue to be friends.  While you are sitting there and getting nothing.  Waiting for them to pick up the slack.

It's a gut punch, but you just sort of still hope that they will come through for you.

But then you realize that NO ONE is coming for you.  You were stupid and you wasted so much time and energy.  Even if it made you feel better for a while.

:-[

I'm at a point where I'm seeing that many years of effort hasn't secured me a favored place with my inlaws.  And while I truly do understand that it's a valuable sign that I need to move on - I still haven't given up.  It hurts that I've "failed".

Even so.

I'm also at a point where I am realizing that there WILL be people in other avenues in my life that will push my buttons and I WILL need to deal with them - without using my toxic old tricks.  I need to accept that boundaries are the only thing that will save me - even though in the past I could control them if I only make myself meek around them.

Even now that I've stop trying for the most part, I am finding that some people see my natural talents and authentic nature as competition.  Not everyone wants to see me succeed.  And that feels like a rejection.  Instead of acknowledging that it's their issue - it makes me want to return to those unhealthy patterns so that everyone is happy (including me).

For many years I was wrong on what is good.

Good was being pretty enough to fit in - but not too pretty to make people jealous.
Good was being creative but not too "out there" and weird.
Good was always helping, even if it cost extra time, money and grief.
Good was carefully sharing my feelings and issues - but only the stuff that really bothered me.  I'd let the petty stuff go (even if they festered).
I would never tell a dud joke, snap at someone, or be contentious.  Better to keep things to myself than risk not being good.

I am telling you - this behavior was EASY for me.  For the most part I'd feel in control.  When I didn't - it didn't take long to assess and adapt others.

Yes, I was a mess under the surface but it was easy to assess and adapt myself to a state of calm.

Until it was not.  Until I found myself in many, many bad situations.  Until i realized I was living a lie.  A "good" lie.  But still.  A lie.

I don't know what has gotten into me today but I do know that I have broken the pattern and . . . I can't go back.  That old comfortable life is officially gone and I'm just sad to accept that I'm a regular person like everyone else.

This past year:
I've said no - way more than I ever have before.
I've shown obvious anger to people.
I've abruptly ended conversations.
I've joked in ways that were off putting. I didn't read the room.
I've allowed others to disregard me and I've felt anger and anxiety simmer.
I straight up snapped at that one person, and that was especially jarring.
I've blown people off and let them leech off others (and don't think I didn't feel responsible for those innocent people having to pick up my slack).
I've given less in my marriage than I ever have before (because something big is definitely brewing there.)
I've blown off my religious obligations completely and the guilt is something else on my list to deal with.

Today I don't feel victorious.  The above things were hard for me to do/allow/experience.  Most times I felt like a failure when I KNOW how to solve all these issues.

Grovel. Smile. Apologize. Google. Plot Twist. Treat. Confide. Control. Done!

 :sadno:

To be clear - I don't doubt that I am currently on the right path.  I needed to change from the person I was.  I KNOW that I have real things in my life now. And my current relationships, dreams, and surroundings are beautiful!

It's just hitting me real hard today.  I miss some of those people.  I miss some of those activities.  I miss some of those feelings.  Even if my memories aren't a real snapshot of the life I was living - I sort of miss who I was then.

Today I chatted with a customer I hadn't seen in a long while.  She's much younger than me.  She's a busy mom to little kids, does all the volunteering, part time work, runs her home, takes care of her husband - the works. 

Her daughter is sick and she had to run to urgent care.  She was sharing her experience.  A few minutes in I was reminded of how very special this young lady is.  She didn't just grunt and say, "ugg, the kid is sick, the doctor was a pain, it's been a day!"

In detail she shared her kids symptoms, what she told the doctor, how he reacted.  She was upset with the doctor and illustrated how callous he was to her.  She went on another tangent on how she dealt with something else earlier in the week.  She gave me lots of details about how she dealt with each issue, pointing out the good things she did as well as the bad.  I haven't seen this young lady in two years.  She gave me details that I didn't need to know to sort of "show" me that she tried to do the right things.  She used careful language that was proper and correct.  Her tone was conversational, she smiled a lot to lead me when she wanted me to nod and agree with positive words.

In short - she was perfect.

Inside I was rolling my eyes, privately thinking of how I needed to get back to my work.  But the more she talked the more I was drawn in.  She clearly needed to release something and I decided to let her vomit out all the words she wanted.  She finally cried.  After revealing how hard she works to be "nice" and how no one cares.

This poor girl was me, circa 1995 until 2015-ish.  Always caring.  Revealing everything about myself in order to be completely transparent to all my "friends".  Proving I was objective and honest in all my dealings. Wanting to do all the right things. 

I remember MYSELF as being pathetic when I behaved this way. 

But I would not consider her pathetic.  I could see her absolute sweetness and her considerable stress.  I can already see the storm she might walk through someday because, I know from experience, she will not be able to live this way forever.

I shared with her that I felt the way she is feeling.  I told her about my one operation that pulled back the curtain on my relationships and that I've been changed ever since.

"When did you start feeling better?"

"I'm still working on it.  I had to stop fixing the past and start building the future.  Still building."

Obviously I gave her words of encouragement and I'm going to check on her in a day or so.  But she's blessed me with a lot to think about.


In my previous post I said that I miss who I was.  I liked being the planner and finding fun things to do. I liked being giggly and fun and surrounded by people who were enjoying themselves.  I was always a kind person even if it was sometimes self serving.  I made people happy and that made me happy.

When I changed, I changed across the board.  I didn't just weed out the bad people and the bad behaviors and continue on my merry way.  I "stopped" with everyone because I wanted to see who would pick up the slack.  No one did and that made me think I had to change completely.

I did need to change - there is no doubt about that.  And just "stopping" was probably what I needed to do.

The problem was I didn't add any of the good back in.  I didn't keep that positive spirit because I was depressed and unsure how to move forward.  And to be fair there weren't a lot of people hanging around to help.

I did stop my negative behaviors.  I stopped my toxic positivity and my false sense of self.

I put distance between those that hurt me.  I grew objective sometimes and critical sometimes.

I put up boundaries and rules and I followed them - even if it didn't feel right.

I made new friends.  Tried new things.  Gave in new ways.

But they were made during the "new me" stage where I was careful, quiet and filled with desire to hold back.

So I have safe people, safe situations and safety within me.  But it feels fake to me to be silly with them and grey rock with others.  I hate that.

But I need to more forward with the positive people.  If I miss planning an outing I should plan an outing - with the new people.

Maybe being myself with new people will help me be a stronger version of myself with the unsafe people in my life.

If I miss certain things about my old life I should bring it back - in a new way.

I need to stop worrying about how to salvage my life.  I need to flat out rebuild from scratch - based on the valuable things I've learned.

On a whim, because it was a GREAT price, I bought another Christmas tree. 

It's very different from the one I have.  I certainly don't need another tree but I spotted it immediately after I entered the thrift store and I made a beeline over to it. When I checked the tag and saw it was only $14.99 I grabbed it without hesitation.

I don't need another tree, another hassle, another thing to store.  But I bought it, and put it in my kitchen, and I LOVE IT!!  It's just so beautiful and unique and it's the first thing I see when I get in the door.  I am now a person who owns three Christmas trees.

Earlier this fall a local organization asked me to participate on their holiday tour of homes.  I live in a historical house and they thought my property would be a great addition to their line up.  I laughed because (as anyone who reads my words knows) my house is pitiful and not something grand to look at.  If people paid money to view my house - they would certainly ask for a refund.  "Maybe next year", I said.  And I really meant it.

So now I have a bit of a spark to fuel my goal to participate on the next tour of homes.  I LOVE my newly decorated kitchen and with the addition of the new tree I really feel like people would actually enjoy seeing my home.  If I can make the rest of my house look as lovely (and I know I can) I'll be able to confidently participate next year.

I noticed that since I bought the tree I have not been ruminating as much.  I haven't shamefully caught myself thinking negatively about PD family members.  I've just been enjoying this tree, and in my spare time thinking of the best ornaments to add to the tree, or how I can use my existing Christmas decorations to really make the kitchen pop. I've been trying to decide if I wanted to quickly paint the bathroom to check it off my list.  I've been online looking at pictures of my style of decorating and trying out different ideas, making list of the things I need to buy at the after Christmas sales.

This tree didn't solve all my problems but it's clear that I need to do/buy/view/participate in more things that bring me true joy so that my heart is happier and has a chance at beating with love instead of spite.

If blowing $14.99 can produce this much happiness - I need to just throw a little (not a lot!) money at the problem on a regular basis - and see where it takes me.

The Christmas holiday went well!  The PD people did behave how I expected but I didn't let it get to me.  I continued to be annoyed by my mother-in-law but no one else bothered me. 

I read something today that stated "the irritations you find in another will help you to discover yourself".  I do believe that but I don't know to what end my irritation with my MIL serves me.

It all started when she sent a text that she wanted a simple celebration, due to her recent health issues.  Simple meant we started the party at a specific time, with gifts happening in a specific manner.  She didn't want a full meal, but instead crock pots with appetizers and snackie foods.  Then, only minutes later, on this silly text chain, she allowed her PD daughter to alter plans and make things way more complicated.  No one spoke up, no one supported MIL.

At the party she smiled and acted like she was enjoying herself and then turned around to complain to anyone who would listen about her annoyance with her husband.  Which seemed unfair to me because he was actually keeping his drinking in check and was behaving very nicely.

Instead of enjoying her guests she made a big deal about cleaning up the kitchen while everyone was downstairs partying.  She made comments about how she was going to go ahead and clean everyone's crock pots and dishes.  Of course DH and I stopped her and insisted that people could bring home and clean their own crock pots and she didn't need to scrub anything else.  It seemed like she only suggested that she'd clean the crock pots to look "nice".  She quickly decided to not scrub.

She pouted portions of the night.  She rolled her eyes.  She used her baby voice to passive aggressively speak to people.

And even with all this I felt bad for her because she had three major surgeries this month and no one really made a fuss over her.

On Christmas eve we decided to invite MIL and FIL to our home on Christmas day.  When my husband called her to make arrangements I could overhead her portion of the conversation where she "thought" she might get invited to one household.  And she stated that they "usually" went to another household but they hadn't said anything yet.  She just stalled the conversation and gave us more speculation on who might still invite them or who wasn't able.  She didn't offer any sort of answer or solution to our invite.  My husband finally said, "okay, just text me when you figure your day out."

I was annoyed because she was playing it all so sad and taking no initiative on how she was going to spend Christmas day.  I was also annoyed that none of the other siblings had invited or included her in any portion of their celebrations.  Her and FIL would be on their own on a special holiday and all of that seemed very depressing.  I was also annoyed because my husband wasn't being very clear either.  I wanted him to invite her to our home during a specific time frame so that she knew she was welcome but that she was also free to visit anyone else.  He balked because he wanted her to make a decision instead of being passive.

I didn't say much because I knew that, regardless of them, our scheduled plans with my family wouldn't be disturbed.  I knew I could easily put out refreshments if they did come.  But it was annoying that they couldn't just make decisions so we could actually plan our own day.

They ended up coming over and it wasn't great.  She came in all nice and complimentary.  "Love this, love that."  But then made passive aggressive comments on all sorts of things.  Then she did her thing where she tried to agree with everyone.  My husband brought up news of a local New Years Eve wedding and how stupid he thinks it is to have a wedding on that day.  She jumps in with totally agreement and was scoffing at the couple we were discussing.  Then I said, "Oh, I disagree!  I'd love to be invited to a New Years wedding.  It would be great to have a low stress, fun activity for New Years.  And then she said, "Oh yeah!  It would be fun to have a fun place to go."  Then my husband continued the conversations with his reasons why he wouldn't like it and she flip flopped to his opinion again.  It was so weird.

Then it was anything we talked about.  A bakery in the area started offering a new thing and she made negative comments about how silly that was.  When I said, "oh, actually, she is very talented and able to sell these expensive cakes easily" she said, "Oh, yeah, she DOES have a talent."  She says it like she never said the petty thing.

She complained about a young family member who didn't properly close the door at our party.  Three hours later, they found the door to the outside had been hanging open in the cool temperatures.  She made another cutting remark about how the child was raised but then admitted that she didn't even tell the parent what the child had done. The parent had no idea and still wouldn't be able to speak to the child or offer to give them money for the heating bill.

Almost everything had a negative comment with her.  I would turn the conversation around and go in different directions only to have her be negative again.

And then, when my husband made a negative comment about his aunt - well, both MIL and FIL's eyes just lit up.  Everyone was on the same page and the conversation got real lively because they all wanted to talk about how the other branch of the family isn't as good as "we are".  It's been years since MIL and FIL agreed on anything but they sure joined forces fast.
 
Here's the kicker.  My husband didn't notice any of this annoying behavior.  I gave him a few examples and he sort of shrugged.  I dropped the subject because I really didn't want to spend time on Christmas running his mother down.  But it's useful information to me that he doesn't notice or acknowledge her behavior as odd or negative.

She acts like she is perfect, agreeable, sweet, helpful but she's really not that nice at all.

I think the correlation is that I used to be like this.  I'm too far removed from it all now to know if I was better or worse than the way she behaves but I know I for sure used to behave in this way.  I desperately do NOT want to return to that sort of behavior.  I think I find her to be an annoying reminder of the person I used to be.

And I'm further annoyed that my husband doesn't notice it AND continues to accommodate her into our lives in a way that makes me uncomfortable.  Because he sees her as a perfect person - he does not want to hear my opinion that states the opposite.  I don't know how I will break this cycle - but I WILL find my freedom from it.

I am overwhelmed. 

I have tons of beautiful ideas but so many obligations that get in the way.
I have a lot of great family members and friends but I stay stuck on the ones that are PD.
I have great health and a nice appearance and I focus on my frustrations with my natural aging.
I have a hard working husband who is mostly a joy yet, I convince myself that he isn't devoted to me.
I have all the tools in my head to create boundaries and joy - but all I feel is guilt and failure for not being able to easily:

- Handle my MIL with real love and compassion
- Remember others kindly, even if I regret how I used to be.
- Adhere to a clean diet to help my health and mental well being
- Be assertive about new changes I want to make in my work
- Know what financial software I need to use
- Create an amazing website with beautiful content
- Design beautiful things to sell
- Put myself out there MORE
- Pay my bills.  I make money but I couldn't really sustain my (modest) lifestyle without my husband.

I have not changed enough in my journey.  I'm not as healthy as I want to be.  I'm not as mentally strong and I need to be.  I'm not assertive enough to do the necessary things in life.  I'm not creative enough to really shine.  I AM all these things.  But just not enough.

And even as I type all of this - I know it's bullshit.  We are ALL enough. 

I am just SO TIRED of telling myself things.  I'm tired of my efforts to talk myself into a good headspace.  I'm tired of building relationships that will support me as much as I support them.  I'm tired of paying bills that don't go away.  I'm tired of new things.  I'm tired of old things.  I'm scare of what life will be like when a real problem appears and I'm not ready for it.

I'm coasting.  And weak.  And tired.

But I will prevail

QuoteI have tons of beautiful ideas but so many obligations that get in the way.
I have a lot of great family members and friends but I stay stuck on the ones that are PD.
I have great health and a nice appearance and I focus on my frustrations with my natural aging.
I have a hard working husband who is mostly a joy yet, I convince myself that he isn't devoted to me.
I have all the tools in my head to create boundaries and joy - but all I feel is guilt and failure for not being able to easily:

Just a thought - I've read that in any statement, the instant you insert a "but" it creates a negative and cancels out everything that came before. Try replacing those buts and reframing them with more positive "ands" maybe. Im not saying be all Pollyanna and live in a bright shiny bubble, just that maybe more of that is needed to get us where we really want to be.

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on January 04, 2024, 10:25:35 AMI'm scare of what life will be like when a real problem appears and I'm not ready for it.

Yesterday it hit me.  I have a fear of things going south and danger to follow.  I feel I need to be ready for it.  I MUST be ready for it.  If I don't have "xyz" in place and something bad happens - it will be a disaster.  My home will go into ruins, my business will not be able to operate.  Etc.

Etc.

I have forgotten what happened 13 years ago.  After years of a stressful marriage (and life) my husband cheated on me with a prostitute, was caught, was arrested, was fired from his job, was put in jail for a short time, was about to kill himself.

I was not ready for it.  My life was not ready for it.  I remember that day clearly.  It was the day after my birthday.  I took the day off and did all my favorite things.  I stopped at the library.  I went to the movies.  I shopped a little.  I ate dinner at a place I never got to go to.  I read one of my books there before heading home and feeling refreshed and hopeful about returning to my regular stressful life.  I opened the door to my home and learned the awful news.

That was a terrible, awful, shocking, devastating experience for a person to go through.  Worse was that the situation was so humiliating I couldn't be vocal about my pain or ask for help.  I needed to hide, or be judged.

But I did not crumble.  I did not disappear.  I did not fall into ruins.

I put my head down and moved forward.  I picked my husband off the floor of hell and literally kept him alive.  I dropped him off at jail and made a list.  I calmly did all the things.  I hunkered down at my business and made all the money.  For several years - the bills were paid - by ME.  I scheduled therapy appointments.  I listened to my husband talk.  I watched him change.  I helped him grow.  I cleaned the house, fed the dogs, cut the grass.  I comforted everyone.  I looked people in the eye when they were uncomfortable and unsure of what to say.  I made meals.  I ate.  I quietly took my small joys to comfort myself.

I cried a lot then but in the chaos I was strong and in control.  I knew exactly what to do and I did it.  I felt God moving me and it was almost holy.

It took years to rebuild my marriage.  Years to support my husband in sobriety.  Even more years to come to terms with my failings in every relationship I had.

I didn't get the support I needed from family and friends then.  Even the good people failed me, simply because they didn't know what to do.  I clearly remember three people who weren't afraid to show up.  One was a real friend (love her!).  One was a stranger.  And one was a person who ultimately betrayed me right as I was feeling safe.

These last 13 years have been nothing but growth.  I gutted and rebuilt a building and grew my business.  We started my husbands business.  We moved into my dream house.  We dealt with substantial health issues, a fire, a total rebuild.  We endured a devastating family betrayal.  I took a hard look at everyone and everything and shed, shed, shed, what I knew needed to go.

Now I am free from most negative things.  Now I find myself in more beautiful surroundings.  I'm rubbing shoulders with positive, strong people.  I have a healthy marriage and a husband who is committed to sobriety and living his best life.

It hit me yesterday - there is NO WAY that I'm going to give up now!!!  I can rest here in this space a little longer.  But then it's time to find a challenge instead of waiting for one to happen to me.

I am not afraid of paint colors.
I am not going to seethe over people who have no control over me.
If a business venture is overwhelming - I'll learn what I need to learn.
If a couch doesn't work out . . . oh well!
If a haircut doesn't really suit - I'll find a freaking hat until it grows out.

If I could do what I did before, at the level I was - I can do anything.

I can do anything!!!

Hopeful Spine, thank you for this inspiring message. I hope you don't mind that one thing I'm taking from it is the reminder that I should credit myself for enduring and overcoming the effects of several difficult, occasionally traumatic, events in my own life.

Quote from: Poison Ivy on January 05, 2024, 06:07:22 PMHopeful Spine, thank you for this inspiring message. I hope you don't mind that one thing I'm taking from it is the reminder that I should credit myself for enduring and overcoming the effects of several difficult, occasionally traumatic, events in my own life.

I'm glad to provide that reminder.  Depending on your experiences I may be able to relate.

I've had friends who have serious struggles such as battling cancer or the death of their husband.  They have used these profound experiences to create HARD boundaries that completely serve them and their family. While those boundaries might seem "selfish" to an unhealed person like myself - these people have become stronger people who are now able to better serve their friends and others.  I admire them greatly as does most everyone who knows them.

Though there are many differences in all of our losses and challenges I find that I stuffed MY embarrassing, profound experience in a dark dirty little place in my heart.

They had light, love, meal trains, public fundraisers.  Maybe that sort of support fueled them and gave them space to rebuild their lives in the way that was necessary.

I had awkward glances, polite interchanges with people who I assumed prayed for me and then told all their friends they saw me.  I had those aforementioned three people (one of which I barely knew and never spoke to again) and a PAID therapist.  I was not strong enough to say, "can you make me a meal?  I don't want to face the grocery store."  "I need hope. Can you drop off a inspirational book?"  "Will you plan a fun day trip for me that is outside our area?  I need to get away."  I was certainly not proud enough put on a nice outfit, cruise into my day with the brave face of a woman transforming her newly difficult life.  I doubt I was ever welcomed with strength and admiration but more so with passing concern and pity.

So I didn't use my profound experience to live better and make changes.  During this time I was sucking up breadcrumbs of support off the floor.  I was hiding and then using all my strength to appear when I absolutely needed to.  I was making others more comfortable with how my life made them feel. 

And I never stopped.  And I grew smaller and smaller.

I recently confided in someone who had a very public and devastating loss of her husband.  As a single mom she is very well respected and regarded.  She's done great public things in the aftermath of her loss.  When I told her my story she just couldn't believe any of it.  Later she told me that yes, my story makes sense as to why I am the way I am.  She showered me with praise and love and all the right things.  I so wish that she was in my life 13 years ago, guiding me.

I've been trying to "get over" everything but in the process I've forgotten how very brave I was. 

You are too Poison Ivy!  Those who suffer quietly have no choice but to build themselves up the very best way we know how.  And that is confusing and hard.

For me, I've decide that instead of "getting over it".  I'm going to use it.

My first challenge.

I used to be a regular church-goer.  Even after my Profound Experience).  My husband, in his guilt, was wanting to be more religious about attending but then lost interest within months.  This isn't to say that I was disappointed.  I wasn't enjoying church.  We are both spiritual people.  He regularly listens to Christian music.  We attend Christian concerts.  We display Christian items in our home.  We pray often.  I real a lot of Christian material.  But getting dressed up to sit, stand and kneel through the same rituals every week wasn't connecting me to God.  Prayer groups were focused mostly on mothers.  I didn't feel much of a place in the church anyway.

During different spurts he came, but by then I was really losing interest.  Finally I was only attending on my own sporadically and was enjoying it even less.  I tried harder.  Most people of my faith say that if you aren't getting anything out of the church service then you are focusing on the wrong things.

At this point, I haven't regularly attended church since the year before Covid.  For me, an actual blessing of Covid was that churches were shut down and I was released of the guilt of not attending.  When they reopened I would occasionally attend but just this past year I've ONLY attended on Easter, Christmas and if I had a wedding or funeral. 

I've been scared to officially leave my faith and possibly disappoint many family & friends.  I am reluctant to show up in a new faith and try out a new church and meet all sorts of new people.  My husband refuses to leave the faith, yet refuses to commit to a regular attendance at our current church.  He is not supportive of my interest in finding a new church family. 

While I've been waiting for him to lead us in Christian life I've been patiently waiting.  I told myself that I was respecting my husband by not moving forward until he approves.  But that is never going to happen.  I am floundering so I'm going to move forward.

I'm doing nothing wrong by trying to find a way to grow my faith.  Our current faith is NOT the only way to heaven and eternal glory.  We both know and respect people who currently attend this new church.  It's a good church.  I've watched a few services online and I liked what I saw. 

I am not turning my back on God by leaving the old faith.  I am actually turning towards God each time I search for a positive way to share Christ's love for others.  I want a new church to lead me to others who can help me grow stronger.  So that someday I can help others in the way I once (and if I'm being honest, currently) desperately needed it.

So yesterday I dug up memories of my "Profound Experience" to say to myself, "You know what?  At your lowest point you were able to take your husband's hand, walk into that old church, endure the judgement you felt, with the knowledge that NO ONE in that church reached out to you in your time of need!  You CAN certainly put on a nice shirt, walk into a new place and say hello to the nice people and enjoy an hour listening to them talk about Jesus."

My husband won't attend and that is okay.  In fact when I invited him to go with me he told me he was going to attend our old church service at that same time (which he hadn't mentioned to me until that moment so  ::) I suspect I will have to be assertive when he challenges me on this later. 

But I'm going to get through that conversation, try this new thing, with the full knowledge that I'm certainly strong enough to do it.

I attended the church service . . . and it was wonderful.  Best of all was the support from my husband.  He was in a great mood on Saturday, which I assumed was because he wanted to sway me to not attend the new church.  On Sunday I woke early to get ready.  A little later he woke and also got ready.  For a brief moment I thought (hoped) that he'd decided to come with me.  But he went to his church as he said he would.

I almost changed my plan so that I could stay with my husband but in the end I decided to stick to my commitment to myself. 

After my church service we went out for lunch and he asked me if the church was crowded - didn't ask me anything else which hurt my feelings.  I soon learned that he literally didn't know what to ask me.  And I really believe that he was out of his element because once I started talking he joined in with questions and actually seemed very interested in all of it.  Very positive and happy that I felt good about it all.

The moment I walked in the door I was greeted by a pastor who noticed a new face.  He stopped what he was doing to introduce himself and welcome me.  An official greeter took over and then someone I knew hugged me and make me feel welcomed.  Soon a total stranger invited me to sit with them.  Then later my friend arrived and I joined her family.  The music was awesome and the service was informal, thought provoking, and interesting.  I told my husband later that if he'd been with me it would have felt like a date night.  It didn't feel like "church" as I've always known "church" to be.

My husband shared that he did not enjoy his church service at all, which sort of pleased me.  Not that I WANT him to have bad experiences.  I was pleased that he was being honest, pleased that he seemed open to the things I was saying.  Pleased that we had a nice conversation about Jesus and faith.  I don't know that he will join me next week but it seems more likely than ever before that he might.  I will return with happiness.


My next challenge is to deal with one of my volunteer obligations.  It's supposed to be fun but (due to my own insecurities) I struggle.  I like the idea of being involved with this organization but I can't seem to let go of nagging thoughts that I'm not qualified enough to be there in a leadership role.  The person in charge, seems to be keeping me on a leash.  I speak with her today and I've been nervous about how to move forward.

Thirteen years ago I was able to navigate a volunteer role with the lingering affects of my Profound Experience. I can certainly show up today and have an honest conversation about how I can best help.

This week has been pretty great.  Aside from having trouble focusing on things I've been doing well.  Today I had to help my husband for an hour and a half.  His mother also helped and it took everything I had to not be short with her, and to hold my tongue from passive aggressively asking questions.

My husband has a tendency to run intensely when it comes to his business.  He wants things done quickly and the way he prefers.  I do "get" how he rolls.  I can be the same with my own business so I respect that to a degree.  However, today I felt he was being unnecessarily demanding to myself and his mom.  I spoke up and he didn't like it.  Long story short - it was fine and we move passed it quickly so we could get to the task at hand.  When I was trying to explain something his mother started to talk over me in her soft baby voice and basically told him that he was right and we'd do better.

EVEN THOUGH HE WAS BEING KINDA JERKY TO . . . US!

It was so irritating to speak up, deal with the expected pushback from him, move forward on equal footing, only for her to sort of ruin it.  When she didn't even have to.  He was accepting of my comment even if he didn't agree with me.  It was not a "fight".  It was not tense or ugly.  Just me speaking up, him being slightly annoyed, and her pretending that my words and feelings were irrelevant.

In the down time she complained about her husband.  Just petty comments running him down. (I forced myself to not ask if she confronted him about his behavior).  She gossiped about a family we knew and how half of their children weren't helping as they "should" during a medical issue. (I made myself say, "oh well, that's how families roll sometimes" and then change the subject.)

In another conversation she made comments about how she had to ask "the church" what their stance was on a living will before she would follow up with her doctor.  It was frustrating for me to be freeing myself of this faith only to see how tightly she clings to it.  It reminds me of the other toxic comments she makes about following this faith.

She made other comments about how her children would know what to do when a medical need would arise for her.  (My husband would have no clue.  I assure you that his siblings will all disagree and her needs will be overlooked).  She topped it all off with talking about how she wanted to be buried on the edge of the cemetery so that her children would be able to easily "see her whenever they drive down that road".  It just struck me as a very strange to care about.

My point of all this venting is to acknowledge something.  This week was a pretty nice week.  That Sunday service really put me in the right mindset and it lasted all week.  But now, I'm irritated and annoyed and off track in my planned day.  I need to get a handle on my feelings on this woman.

I wish she would realize how unpleasant it is to always mentally combat her comments.  I want her to take responsibility for her medical needs.  I want her to care more about reaching out to her children NOW instead of plotting ways that she can insert herself into their lives after her death (like literally trying to be buried along their commute).

On a positive note I was able to work my new church into a casual conversation with my parents.  They seemed a little surprised but over all supportive.  It felt good to be able to share something important with them and not feel any shame or fear of how they would react.  I want that for my husband and I hope he will join me this Sunday.

Last week my husband had a meltdown because he didn't like that I was mildly upset with him.  To be fair I was being a pouty baby that day.  I was not a terrible jerk.  I was simply not my usual friendly or fun self.  I am rarely like this but I was on Sunday night.

He couldn't handle it.  Out of nowhere he had a meltdown.  Argued, accused, and interrogated me until I was forced to admit that I was WRONG to have felt the way I felt.

I asserted myself and I was strong for a long while.  But he couldn't understand that my feelings, and my behavior, were a reflect of myself.  Not something he should have taken personally.  He made it seem like I treat him terribly when in reality I very rarely act this way.

I eventually apologized for making him feel that way.  It seemed like he really needed me to say it.  I kept telling myself, "you are not terrible."  "You are allowed to have feelings".  "You are not going crazy."

Because I knew that I wasn't my best self Sunday night.  But I also knew that he had no right to react the way he did.

Worse than that, the following day when things calmed down he didn't admit that he'd over reacted.  He felt completely justified in how he handled me.  But I could tell it was very important for him to have me understand how he felt.  Somewhere in this whole saga I hit a button that pushed him to the edge in a real way.

It was scary.

The following two days he spent in bed.  He was dizzy and unable to stand without wanting to vomit. 

He doesn't realize that he used to do this all the time. 
When work situations got under his skin, pick a fight with me - call in sick, dizzy. 
When family things made him mad, pick a fight with someone (sometimes me) - tell everyone, dizzy. 
An actual fight with me - can you fetch me things, I'm dizzy.

The man refuses to admit when life is hard, acts like nothing bothers him, takes on immense stress while acting like it's no big deal.  And then blows up at me for something stupid and justifies all of it.

When I look at others, even those I love, it's hard to know what is narcissism, what is a triggered memory that makes a person explode, what is a build up of stress.

I don't want to be scared.
I don't want my feelings to be invalidated.
I don't want to pretend that I'm okay when I'm not.  Even if I occasionally act like a pouty baby.  I'm sorry, but I want to be allowed to act like a pouty baby every once in a awhile without facing extreme judgement and punishment.

When do I stand up for myself?  When do I see other peoples triggers and just back down?

Thank goodness that it's been years since I've had to deal with this.

Thank goodness that I am encouraged by the fact that he's been attending church services with me.

Thank goodness that I am now strong enough that I am able to function normally after experiencing this sort of outburst.  In the past I would have ruined most of the week trying to cope.  This time I only spent a few hours in meditation and prayer before moving on with my work.

It's been a week but weirdly - its' working with my mother-in-law this afternoon that is prompting me to post and vent.

The negativity of her words just grates on me.  Everyone she talks about she has something negative to report.  The way she stares at my husband as he's working and just smiles feels weird.  The way she tries to hog all the work to show off just makes me want to be ugly to her.  I show up when my husband needs help and she's already been there for an hour.  She's set things up they way she wants and shyly tells me that this is how my husband wants it to be.  I swear she turned off my machine too.  Husband told me that it should have been set to a specific setting and it wasn't.  He tells me I must have accidentally turned it.  I couldn't have.  But she was very quiet when I was telling him that it didn't make sense. 

She claims to "enjoy" clean up and tells me that I'm a busy person and can get back to my office. 

It's "fun" to be there.  She will say this multiple times in the course of 90 minutes and giggle when we sort of roll our eyes (it's enjoyable work but it's not "FUN")

When she leaves she lingers forever, like she's annoyed that I'm still there.  She makes a big deal of saying "love ya".  Multiple times.

She has medical needs and she's deliberately scheduled her appointments so that she can be most available to my husband.

All of it just makes me so mad.

I don't complain about this to anyone and I limit what I say to my husband.  This is where I vent.

My husband finally told his mother that we are attending a different church.  Last week, after church, we ran into his parents and ended up eating lunch with them.  There were a few great opportunities to casually mention our new church but I held back because I didn't know if my husband was ready to tell them.

Thank goodness I trusted my instincts.  In my naive way I thought that I could treat them like I treated my parents.  For my parents, I slid it into a discussion and they were okay.  Curious, maybe surprised, but okay.  It was pretty easy, looking back.  I knew his parents would be harder but I still expected it to be "okay".  Especially since she is so passive.

He told her yesterday while they were working on something with his business.  And it did NOT go well.  And it certainly would have landed badly surrounded by eggs, bacon, and all the people in our small town cafe.

She tried to insist that the way to heaven was through the Catholic church.  When my husband told her some of the ways we don't believe in those teachings, she tried to change his mind on all points.  She urged him to go to a men's retreat at her church and told him it would help him.  She even told him that she would sign him up.  He refused and the conversation went in a lot of different directions on faith and family.

He reminded her of how her most religious child shunned us for seven years over his wife's irrational insistence.  And all the good Catholics in the family shrugged their shoulders and planned the next holiday gift exchange while we suffered.  For seven years.  A few weeks after it all blew up, his parents even went on a trip with them.  TO SEE THE POPE!  She said she would talk to them and try to find some understanding so a resolution could be made.  After the trip we asked how her planned conversation went and she admitted that she couldn't find a good opportunity to talk to them.  During a week-long trip, in a private rental, where they stayed most of the time when they weren't in church or waiting for the pope to cruise by.  She simply prayed away HER sadness about it and didn't face the problem.

He provided examples about how her second most religious child manipulates things so he looks good but in reality causes pain. 

He asked how she felt about us going to a different church verses how a few of her children don't go to any church.  He explained that we're trying to get closer to God by going to a new church.  She doesn't care.  She really seems happier pretending that her children are all good Catholics, instead of admitting that half don't go, and that most of them are on destructive (albeit, socially acceptable) paths.

Out of every terrible thing my husband has ever done - THIS is the thing that is breaking her enough to make her speak up.  Our positive move towards having a deeper relationship with Christ is finally making her speak out - so she can hold us back, within this church that causes us shame.

I expected my husband to be very upset about all this because he coddles and indulges her as she worships him.  I figured it might break him and he'd feel guilty for disappointing her and would be an emotional mess over it.  I was expecting him to be pulled back in after he spoke to her.  I was prepared to have to continue on this path alone.

The opposite seems to have happened.  He seems so relieved and happy.  This morning we laid in bed, joking and talking about day.  Something we never do.  He was out in his office and whistling as he went.  He's letting out feelings and we're having real conversations again.  He's saying absolutely everything I want to hear.  It's not a defiant sort of measure.  He's not clinging to this new church to rail against the family.  I believe that these past few years where he's been fighting me on trying new churches was him still holding onto hope that he had a place in his family.  Maybe he didn't want to cut that last cord and now that he has - relief.

We do not have children in a family that has many.
We do not drink in a family that drinks to excess.  Often.
We are self employed in a family that values esteemed positions, promotions and outward financial success.
And now, we are not Catholic in a family that very much is.  Even if it's an illusion.  We are no longer participating.

It is so very empowering to change something.  To take control and be accountable for your own life.  To be pleased with how it turned out and excited for the new thing.  So much better than thinking of the old and hoping it will get better.

I have spent a lot of time on here complaining about a lot of things.  Most recently my focus was on my husbands mother.  I'm not proud of that.  It gives me no pleasure to know she's unhappy.  But I am hopeful that this might make her wake up and move within her family differently (very doubtful).  Or see us as real people and not just the "illusion" she wants to show off for her extended family. 

More realistically, I want my increasingly authentic life to eventually allow me to regard her differently.  So I will feel at peace.

I am excited to see this side of my husband.  I would love it if our actions will spark some sort of positive change within this family but I'm prepared for it to get a little worse.  My husband and I used to do things to sacrifice ourselves for the family, with the hope it would get better or that we'd be accepted.  It only made us feel worse.  Doing what WE want feels good and that is going to carry us further in life.

I get it.  I finally get it. 

A few days ago I learned some terrible things about my sister.  That information, paired with her life-long history of always being sketchy and selfish is making it real hard for me to move on. 

I used to sort of blame my parents for being unsupportive and rigid.  I'm wondering now if many years of my sister acting out, resisting punishment, being selfish wore them down.  She was always in trouble, always failing to do her part, always stealing, causing minor destruction.  My parents were always getting calls from the school.

They got her through school and did their best.  She probably should have been in therapy but people in our small town didn't do that sort of thing back them.  I blamed my parents for that.

My sister left town to go on a religious retreat.  Only it was a lie and she really just moved in with a terrible guy a few states over.  She met him online, lied to get away and stay with him until his sketchy death a few years ago.  At the time my parents tried to get her back and failed.  She was an adult and then she was pregnant.  I blamed them for not doing enough.

Even though my sister was always troublesome, when she went away it was hard on the family.  It felt like a real failure to have a sister that never came around.  But slowly peace grew.  It took awhile but I started to see fun sides to my parents.  I still struggle with my mom but for the most part I enjoyed them and in adulthood found a joyful and supportive relationship.

My sister returned a few years ago and it was hard to navigate those waters but it seemed like a blessing.  Finally she would be safe and her children would flourish!  We could all heal.  I found myself impressed with how my parents handled themselves.  I was surprised at the level of forgiveness they had.  They simply moved forward as if she was deserving of all their support.  I was surprised by how they tolerated their special needs grandchildren.  It felt good for our family to have this opportunity.

I was not surprised when the "honeymoon phase" of these new relationships waned.  But overall - it felt like everyone was doing the best they could.

But my sister is now getting REAL comfortable in the cushy place my parents have allowed her to land.  Fearing she could not find a reputable apartment to rent - they purchased a perfect little house and fixed it up for her.  Dad and my brother redid the kitchen.  My husband helped.  Mom and I scrubbed it clean and added nice touches.  In addition to her government supplied disability checks, they make sure she has money.  They take care of her special needs children when asked, and they do way more than they need to at their age.

She never properly thanks them.  She doesn't take care of the home she was gifted.  She had an emergency and I had to spend the night that that cute little house.  I opted to not use the bathroom, change into pajamas or remove my shoes until I finally slept.  It's littered and filthy.  And I learned some troubling things about her while I was there.

And I can not stop thinking about all of it.  I suspect, now, that this is how my parents survived.  Keeping quiet, thinking about things, trying to work out a solution, smiling less and not wanting to do anything else until it was solved.  There was no time for joy and that was my childhood.

My heart breaks for them.

I want to stop having these issues.  I want to be free from feelings of responsibility.  I want to protect my parents.  I want to have wisdom regarding this troubling information. 

My life is stalling as I process my feelings about everything.  This issue with my sister is just the most recent thing.  I've been tired.  The balance of my marriage, the absolute struggles of dealing with his toxic family, my concerns for my parents, trying to figure out who my real friends are, navigating how to set boundaries with all my relationships, feeling like a failure when I can't.  Trying to build healthy self esteem when my aging body and mind fails me.  And now, trying to find compassion and love for a sister, when she proves to not deserve it.

When will it end - all these challenges and struggles?

I'm barely doing my work, I'm skating by and only doing the bare minimum for the people I have promised to do things for committee work.  I don't even find joy in the side things I do for fun.  I'm forcing myself to do the very bare minimum to still be involved.  I'm only answering texts when I want to, sometimes days later.  I mindlessly scroll on social media.

I'm sick of it.  My husband is leaving for the weekend and I'm very happy.  I need a few days to myself to just stop and sort things out.  I need a few nights alone to truly relax and be still.  I WILL find peace.  I will NOT let life beat me down when I have so very many beautiful things in it.