I don't know...
He is in a bad place right now.
Might walk away from most of his income.
I don't know if I can be supportive and if not it will not go well.
I'm glad that I've done some serious thinking and homework on this, at least I'm somewhat prepared.
But still so scared...if I leave...how he'll react, how it will affect DS21, what the financial fallout will be, etc....
If its any consolation, my H has his scary meltdowns and gets over it when it does not frighten me into compliance. He did it several times, i thought i would be hit, or worse. None of the threats were real. Nothing happened. He kept working, his rages just made me go NC until he controlled himself, so that didnt work. Then he became a pitiful victim. That does not work either. I encourage you to ignore statements, and observe actions.
Your son is an adult now. He has his own life to worry about. You focus on yours.
I look at marriage as part financial partnership. If your partner is not doing what you think is wise you can let them know.
I wish I had answers but usually when I've tried to convince a PD partner (H or BF) not to make some decision or brainstormed ways to fix things - the oppositional part comes out. For me it's usually best to just keep my mouth shut these days. The older I get the more crazy I feel. By middle age you shouldn't have to be telling someone it's a bad idea to quit their best job/client/contract/customer with no backup.
Latchkey, exactly. When we were first married, had no one counting on us, not so many debts and expenses....then maybe. But now?? A son, a mortgage (2 really...including the equity line), son's student loans threat we committed to helping him with, AND retirement is not that far off...
Problem is he cannot multitask, can only hyperfocus on one thing...
I reached back out to an attorney that I had a consult with back in March. Asked her some follow up questions.
Now I'm running through in my head how I would tell him and what I would say....
Still no definite decision
DS21 will be home for break in a couple weeks...I'm seriously thinking that if things get worse or don't get better that maybe when ds goes back to school in January would be a good time
My exN/ASPDH2 nearly destroyed his career when he destroyed our marriage. My first husband, also PD drove us both into bankruptcy.
I was recently with someone for a year (friends and then lovers) who I suspect PD managed to make a series of very strange
financial decisions including quitting his job, deciding to invest in sketchy stuff, and also breaking financial obligations and bragging about it. All of the above were parents as well with mortgages etc...
I guess I'm saying it makes no sense and the only thing you can do is protect yourself.
I worked with someone who always put in writing when he disagreed with a business decision. I wish there was a way to do this but in most cases it's a lost cause.
I've also got 2 in college. No help from dad here. We're all taking loans but I want them to have chance to succeed and the kids seem damn determined to be employed and work now when on breaks. Hope for the future :)
A couple more updates on this recent situation.
1) on Sunday, after I spentsome time really putting some thought into his situation, he asked me for my input. I should know better by now. I preferred my ideas. I think I've finally caught on to something he does, which I just looked up and I'm pretty sure it's what's called a 'narcissistic smirk'. I never really resized he does this...But wow he does. God forbid you try to seriously advise him...He sits there and all you can see are his dimples. So inappropriate.
2) suddenly on Tuesday he was in a much better mood. I'm so tired of having to be reactive to his moods. He figured out something and felt smart, so felt better... :doh: and 'time had passed'.
3) I'm back on high alert anyway, and seriously thinking again about the strong possibility of leaving him soon.
And 2 weeks later he's fighting with the client Again. Sent him a nasty email.
Sigh, this doesn't look too good. When you fight with a client, well, the client can choose another vendor that doesn't fight with them. It's different when it's a family member.
I'd recommend to continue to your preparations to separate your finances. It sounds like your PDH is spiraling based on some of your other posts. I've seen it to where a PD person sabotages themselves just as you get a raise or promotion or some other windfall or award.
I hope this resolves peacefully but keep us posted.
:bighug:
Thanks Latchkey.
He tends to sabotage himself whenhe starts to be successful or make decent money. He can't handle stress, and has literallysaid that basically he has an income threshold at which he can manage, but above that it gets to stressful.
Also he commented tonight that we don't need him to make as much 'because you're so awesome'.
This is a guy who3 years ago was literally sobbing about how were we going to afford college for ds...
How indeed?
Oh yes, I got that too in both my PD marriages. If I made less than my H I wasn't allowed to complain, was told I deserved more and the boss was cheating me, was told I should quit, was told I should get another job, if I ever made more then the resentment settled in and maybe we should move to another place where ex could get work but I couldn't.... I am happily divorced and no longer have to hear anything on the subject of my work.
So - if you've followed some of my other posts, uPDh self-diagnosed with Aspbergers several years ago - he still thinks he has that and "OCD". I sincerely believe that is NOT the case and that it is OCPD (with maybe some NPD/BPD mixed in) but OCPD FITS totally.
He has now diagnosed his client with ADHD.
As much as I would sometimes love to put an OCPD checklist in front of uPDh to show him how difficult he is - I know it would blow up, so I don't.
He sent a similar checklist to the client re: client's ADHD and ensuing bad behavior and - it blew up, big surprise.
I DO NOT KNOW how I am supposed to respond to all of this - h is forwarding me the emails and wants my help/opinion/etc. How do I do that without being honest about what I think about HIM?
I'm just seeing this, not sure where things are with him now. I think maybe paraphrasing about "amateur diagnosis" (see toolbox) with him. Medium Chill, which I think you are also using.
How are things today?
Well, surprisingly the client wants to work things out, and it looks they may arrive at some sort of compromise.
Updh is feeling quite good (he often does after telling someone off...)
Updh actuallyadmits that maybe past of the problem is he might be a bit burnt out on the project.
And I guess because I didn't completely freak out, uPDh has been pretty nice to me.
I emailed ds21 yesterday, giving him a heads up and letting him know things are under control, as I knew it would come up when we visited him today, and I didn't want him to worry. So that weren't ok.
Ds21 comes home for break next week fora month...looking forward to that.
All in all this could have gone a lot worse, some stuff is still up in the air...
Taking it a day at time.
:bighug:
You'll have this thread as a reminder at least of what you went through emotionally because of all this. It sounds like the client is playing by your H's rules for now.
I'd also be curious to read the emails if I were you about this compromise if you can without seeming you want to be more involved.... I often find that a PD's interpretation of compromise or a deal or an agreement is more in the eyes of the beholder if you know what I mean. Basically, I've had PDs tell me that they've made a deal only to realize it was never actually made or what they agreed to was way different than what they told me. I've also been lied to so many times about deals that were never made that I always ask for them in writing if it involves an aspect of my business.
Enjoy the time with your DS and glad things seem to be going smoother for your UpdH for now.
Thanks Latchkey, he's been showing me the emails as this plays out.
And again, it does seem like the client may have some issues as well, so it will be very interesting to see where this goes.
Updh did admit to ds that as he was telling me about his issues with the client that he was aware some of the stuff was stuff that he does too.
:aaauuugh:
Not sure if something happened today or not. Posting here sort of to see if my intuition is right or not.
After blow up with client uPDh gave himself a 'vacation.'
He's still been working on his 'own stuff,' but nothing for the client.
Also client has been away.
Updh Has actually been in a fairly good mood.new years eve today. Son off work at noon, me off at2. Friends coming over this evening.
Despite uPDh claiming that people can't tell when he's mad (yeah, right), I get the distinct feeling he "had a bad day". He is on his computer, very involved in something. Wondering if client is back from trip and reached out to him. Of course he won't stop and even say to me...sorry rough day I'll fill you in later. Just quiet, sort of his usual rudeness, a bit put out by the couple of things he had to do to clean up his own clutter before guests arrive...
I have that sense of dread...
Hoping I'm wrong.
Friends due over in2 hours...
Fortunately my intuition was wrong.
A peaceful and pleasant night.
☺
Good to hear things are ok. Hope 2019 comes with a heaping dose of clarity for all!
Thanks Latchkey
Today he got7 emails from client that he did not read yet.
So tomorrow should be interesting
I'm feeling like he was hoping client would get mad at him So he could end it. However client is not (that) mad. In fact client is displaying a weird lack of boundaries in that he seems more concerned about preserving the friendship than the Working relationship. Updh definitely does not want the friendship. Now I feel like Updh is upset that client didn't cut him loose, and probably resentful of me, because I'm probably the only reason he didn't just cut the client loose.
He's been on a characteristically obsessive project now where he is sorting and organizing all past emails with client...7000 of them. It's taking a long time, he resents that he 'has' to do it, etc, so he is just getting more mad. And now, also charactetistically, taking it out on me by being rude and cranky etc.
But he still has spent zero time working on a plan b in case things do blow up with the client. Why??
If he had a plan b I would be fine with him ending the project.
I am not fine with him ending it and having no income. So why is he obsessing over things like 7000 emails, rather than putting some time into other ideas??
I think in a way it's like digital hoarding and sorting and organizing. It's like the OCPD person that bins and stores things in neat little tupperware bins in a closet that make no sense (as to why) to anyone but them.
If the client did not ask for this email project and it is self-inflicted as it were then it does seem like more crazy-making and attention getting.
I work with someone who hoards both IRL and digitally. It's pretty awful on many levels. I mostly try to ignore it. The sad thing is that the digital hoarding does not = backup or backup plan as in the case of your PDH. It's like, great, we have emails from 2002 on the old computer that is sitting on the shelf but if the modern database system we have running was to get struck by lightning the company would not have a way to get up and running tomorrow. This went on for years and years and has finally been remedied in my case. Still, it seems the lack of plan B is similar to my co-worker.
:stars:
:yeahthat:
Wow Latchkey, yes, exactly! Hoarding behavior for sure.
I truly believe h has ocpd!
A computer crashed about 5 or so years ago...2013 I think...since then he's been working on a self imposed project in which he is organizing his databases....or putting things into different databases I'm not sure. 5 years. This is what he does when not working on the client's stuff...but can't possibly take on another client. :stars:
Early on I questioned the usefulness of this and he got soooo upset and defensive.
On one hand I get that it's a defense mechanism and gives him a sense of control. But the time spent on these things is baffling to me.
He had me read some of his emails with client today. I don't get why the client is not yet wondering if something is not quite right here...I think most people would be running by now....but h's contributions to the project have been valuable, so I guess he doesn't want to lose that....
Speaking for myself, I tolerate the co-workers behavior because I can do my work around his behavior. The client may be buying time and sucking up to your H until they can find someone else. Or maybe they are just clueless. Also, I have found strangely enough, that PDs are often good at picking out other PDs and traits of those so your H's assessments of the client may be pretty accurate.
I know we are not supposed to 'journal' here and hope that's not what I'm doing. This is an evolving issue so adding my thoughts. Thanks all for your feedback.
Yesterday updh seemed to have an epiphany about his client. I think todayhe is going to try to resolve stuff, it seems like booth of them want to continue working together.
Last night though he wanted my help/input...I've been trying to stay mc with him so this was a challenge, he pushed it So I obliged. Of course he argued with me almost right away...then accepted some of my advice, thanked me. Some of his complaints were about the client being cranky and yelling at him. It was late When we finished, then he asked me if we couldwatch a tv show. I said, well is pretty late...to which he let out a (growl/yell?)... I said what was that? He said frustration because I want to watch a show and clear my head before trying to go to sleep. (But really, the yelling is unnecessary!) Also he said, anyway it's Friday. I responded it's not Friday its Thursday. Him: well tomorrow is Friday. (???? I stopped jadeing...how is that relevant?) So of course we watched a show... I feel like he just shouldn't bother asking me. He apologized later, justifying that it's a stressful situation for him. I just nodded, since oneof my boundaries is that I do not say oh it's ok because it's not. As he's talking about the client He complains that the client doesn't see the irony. Yet HE does not see the irony that his complaints about the client are similar to my complaints about him.
It's not journaling, just a situation that is evolving. At some point this crisis will be over but your H just seems to be milking the attention for all it's worth. He has just one main client. I can't imagine if he had several.
Hang in there!
So more weirdness around a meeting with the client.... Including my suggestion that he met with client in his own turf at our house/his home office, rather than at clients office. He did. A day or two later, uPDh comments that it was good he had the meeting at his own office, not at clients. NO acknowledgement that this was MY idea... Did he forget? Is he gaslighting? Lying (to me and/or to himself)? Testing to see if I'll correct him? In medium chill fashion I just observed and let it go... Weird though...
Did he say it was his idea or did he just not acknowledge your idea?
I'm so used to that with co-workers that I don't even notice. Have you ever read the book "I don't have to Make everything all better" by the Lundbergs ? It might be something to get and read as it has helped me so much in life and dealing with PDs and kids (as a parent) especially.