Living our values, it might fail

[SonofThunder]

Hi JustKeepTrying,

Thanks for your message here.

This week I'm reminding myself that so many people are stressed now. They are coming at me from that place of stress. The year that the lady at the class distracted me, I was more in the FOG than I am today. Looking back at it I know that I was looking to others to be more present than they actually were. She was one of them. Each class she was just so focused on herself. It was majorly distracting.

When I think about going back to a class like that now, years later, I feel quite differently about whether I want to be around others. I think the HSP traits are what explain a lot of it for me as well. I am quite social when I am not around women who behave like narcs. Whether they are a narc or not, when so much of their behaviour matches up, I just want to ignore it - but the whole point of the class is to be doing this activity socially. Otherwise we could do it at home on our own, and no one could bother us. I agree with you, once I see red flags, I don't stick around to see how bad it will get anymore. Red flags are real!

Trees

Hi again Trees,

You wrote: 

"Whether they are a narc or not, when so much of their behaviour matches up, I just want to ignore it - but the whole point of the class is to be doing this activity socially. Otherwise we could do it at home on our own, and no one could bother us."

Maybe consider this scenario:  If the same exact class was actually a Zoom-hosted class and each participant was not sitting in the same physical space, would your reaction to the other participants same 'behavior' be different because the class was not physically sitting together? 

If the potential insulation value of not being in the same physical space makes a difference in my perception of other's same conflicting behaviors, then its not necessarily the behaviors, but my personal vulnerability with/without insulation.  I recognize my HSP and introvert traits and how my energy is quickly depleted around others' whose energies are draining on my high-radar. 

But when I add/design protective insulation properties to my experiences, I cope much better. In those situations I recognize that my sensitivity (high-radar) is higher than others, and instead of judging them or the situation, i protect my radar and energies by choosing methods that feed my needs while also trying to remain as balanced as possible, and an active participant in society. 

Its like my mind's radar is a stronger magnet than some others around me, and when im at equal distance to the metal, my mind gets drawn into that focused-source more than others.  Therefore i have to remain slightly farther away from the metal source than many others and I come across to them as distant and unsocial and I am neither, but rather self-aware and therefore self-protective so I can remain near to others but not drain my energies so quickly.  This is where others may marginalize me.  I also will realize that others have even stronger magnets than me, and although they may participate in life with other people, they must stay even farther away from energy-draining sources than I do, and I need to not marginalize them, when compared to myself. 

I find it incredibly freeing to understand, be and accept myself and do the same with others.  That understanding, accepting and protecting is a great insulator that allows me to move into more physically 'together' spaces while brining my Zoom-like insulator with me. 

SoT

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi SoT,

Thank you for this. I note your emphasis on how if you get too close, you feel drained. I totally get that now.

I've been pondering this topic for years, in various ways...unable to really 'feel' my way through it.

I'm trying to think of an analogy that describes what it feels like for me. It's sort of like when you play darts. Everyone knows the concept of the game - you stand at a distance and throw the dart at the dart board, aiming for a specific area to hit (i.e. the bulls' eye). People can explain in a few sentences what to do, but you have to try it, and repeat over and over, to have your own muscle memory and skill to accomplish throwing the dart with the right speed and angle to hit your target. You can't learn that from a book, it has to be through practice with gauging distance and aiming, and learning from each try.

People who get very good at darts learned how to throw the dart at a very precise angle to hit a small little target. The ability to do that reliably - that only comes with practice.

I feel like I am now learning what is the safe distance for me to be from people, and to have that self-awareness of how much they are actually going to drain me. I believe I was in a FOG and denial about the truth. I was in denial about being an HSP for a long time. I wasn't ready to face what it would mean for me.

Over and over in the past, I would allow people in, and get very drained by them, and then try to create a buffer after that - but with a lot of people, that doesn't really "work" because once they get used that 'access' to my energy, they react poorly when I try to create a buffer around myself next time. Years ago I was this generous type, giving things to people in my life, etc. and I stopped doing that in the last few years. I got so tired of giving myself away over and over.

When I ask myself why I let people get 'too close' in the first place, I know the answers. What I want to learn next, is how to better accept the traits I actually have - and not pretend that I'm not an HSP.

The big difference between socializing and learning how to play darts better, is that the darts don't have a memory of how you last threw them at the board. But people we meet, they want what they want, and if we gave them a lot of attention when we met them, they are going to want that to continue. They have a memory of when we let them get too close - so when I later realized that person was draining me, I couldn't very well tell them "hey, I'm still learning how to manage my safe distance from people, and so I'm adjusting my angle with you a little bit now". People do not tend to react well to this!

I was an HSP before I knew I was an HSP. So there were all those years I couldn't figure out why certain types of socializing made other people happy, and made me miserable and bored / stressed out. There were a lot of years of trying to become more like those people, because they had this (easy) access to 'enjoying life' that I seemed to lack. But when I tried to live and behave like a non-HSP, you can predict the results of that. I. Was. Miserable. Living like a non-HSP if you are an HSP, is misery.

You end up depleted all the time, and you feel like you are trying to be someone you are not.

You wrote about how you acknowledge that there are people who have weaker magnets than you do, and those who have even stronger magnets than you have. I've been reluctant to join new social groups, because I don't want to 'manage' my boundaries around strangers anymore. Again, I had some denial there - as an HSP, the cost of socializing is that one is going to have to manage the way our energy is being used. The benefit of socializing is that one might enjoy the event, one might have a pleasant experience with others.

Giving too much is very draining for an introvert.

Going back to my analogy, if parents teach their HSP kids that being introverted is acceptable, then the child won't get to say age 30 or 40 before learning all of this stuff.

I can say that narcissistic parents cannot teach an HSP child anything valuable about being an HSP. All that those types of parents do, is mess the kid up. It's like growing up and living 30 years or more without ever getting a chance to practice playing darts. Of course I feel 'behind' compared to those who learned as kids. My HSP traits were exploited by narc parents. I'm still figuring out my own traits! 

Trees

[SonofThunder]

☝️+1

Trees, i really like the dart analogy.  I very much align with everything you wrote in that post.  Agree fully on the dart throwing practice and understanding ourselves better over time with experiences.  Also agree on your comments on other people, and im learning better, as time progresses, to let others adult themselves regarding their potentially vacillating experiences with me and my introvert/hsp ways. 

If fact, over time, others will reveal much about their personalities when faced with my social dart-throwing practice.  If it turns out certain people cant handle that some days, my throws are more grouped than others, then they are not people I will continue to hang around.  Me being the real me is my new normal and so necessary for me.  Ive been who others want me to be for WAY too long. 

My true friends and groups will be few and they will be the ones who understand and accept me for who I am. Using your analogy;  i will pull up and throw darts at a variety of dart boards to test the waters of individuals and groups and then use my high-radar to determine if Im staying or leaving.  All those experiences also make me a better and more careful dart-thrower. 

Im just glad to finally be understanding, accepting and loving myself more, which is so crucial for me and even fair to others.  At the same time, understanding myself better helps me advance-avoid, situations I now know will negatively ping my radar, so I choose situations that are more crafted to my needs.  Enjoyed your post! 

SoT

[JustKeepTrying]

   To both SOT and TGS

As a HSP, I work daily - sometimes minute to minute - on managing my boundaries.  Building in the time to recover, center and refill my energy.  For example, I have been working on balancing social vs isolation - what works best for me?  With the pandemic I have isolated but now there are new tools and I can go out so how do I balance so I don't overdraw from my tank while still enjoying other people?  Today I have a FaceTime and two hours later a trivia night - and then tomorrow several back to back to appts.  With the biggest one late tom afternoon - I don't think I will make trivia night because I think that will tire me out and I will need that energy to make it through tomorrow with all those new experiences.  It's a balance

I also try to avoid crowds but when I do go - like trivia night or open mic night - I get a table to myself or with a few, very few others, and sit away from other people.  Since I mask up this isolation is perfectly socially acceptable.

I also spend time in nature almost daily.  Even if it's just standing barefoot in the grass.  This helps to center me and keeps me in touch with my own body and emotions.

After my breakdown last month, I have almost exclusively worked on what my own values and beliefs and what thoughts and behaviors grow from them - I am now listening to my triggers and using them as a guide to track back the thought and belief so that I can work on changing it.  It's really flipping the script for me and helping

This work you are doing TGS is so courageous.  Go you!

[SonofThunder]

  To both SOT and TGS

As a HSP, I work daily - sometimes minute to minute - on managing my boundaries.  Building in the time to recover, center and refill my energy.  For example, I have been working on balancing social vs isolation - what works best for me?  With the pandemic I have isolated but now there are new tools and I can go out so how do I balance so I don't overdraw from my tank while still enjoying other people?  Today I have a FaceTime and two hours later a trivia night - and then tomorrow several back to back to appts.  With the biggest one late tom afternoon - I don't think I will make trivia night because I think that will tire me out and I will need that energy to make it through tomorrow with all those new experiences.  It's a balance

I also try to avoid crowds but when I do go - like trivia night or open mic night - I get a table to myself or with a few, very few others, and sit away from other people.  Since I mask up this isolation is perfectly socially acceptable.

I also spend time in nature almost daily.  Even if it's just standing barefoot in the grass.  This helps to center me and keeps me in touch with my own body and emotions.

After my breakdown last month, I have almost exclusively worked on what my own values and beliefs and what thoughts and behaviors grow from them - I am now listening to my triggers and using them as a guide to track back the thought and belief so that I can work on changing it.  It's really flipping the script for me and helping

This work you are doing TGS is so courageous.  Go you!

  I can 100% relate to your balancing. Being here with others like me, is so invigorating!

SoT

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi JKT and SoT,

Justkeeptrying (great name!) I get it. Some days we know that there's a lot happening, and it is going to take a lot of energy. Years ago I would routinely have days where I 'crashed on the sofa' for a day or 2, and back then, didn't know it was because of HSP / introversion hangover stuff! Now I know! Now, like you describe, we can plan ahead!

it is an evolving life lesson about who we are - probably never done figuring it out in total. Right now, I'm stepping away from 'small talk' activities. So tired of small talk. I do believe there could be a future season where maybe I enjoy it again. It depends on a lot of things - right now I just feel better stepping away from the socializing that involves hours of it.

SoT - definitely. There is something very nourishing about conversing with someone who is 'on the same wavelength'. Some of us have learned how to be a social chameleon, and so any time we are just able to recognize one another in these more authentic ways, it feels like a treat.

I would say that when I first made this post and used the word "fail" I was having a rough week. Failing to belong in groups where we are just different, it's not really a personal failure at all. The world needs different kinds of people with different emotional experiences and levels of introversion. (I do sense frustration in myself sometimes because 'the world' doesn't want to learn from introverts).

Sometimes I feel that introverts who are living authentically, like JKT describes, are rare birds indeed. Sometimes I feel as if we HSP's are endangered species!

The 'world' is so so noisy, we have to have these very individual practices for sanity and balance that so many people in the broader culture refuse to value. I mean, narcissistic people only value one thing - their supply. Not much else matters to them. I don't feel that they can ever be allies to those of us who are HSP or introverted. There's nothing in it for them.

So to the extent that we have spent a lot of time around those people who are lost to a narcissistic lifestyle, and mostly just value their supply, we HSP's will (hopefully) learn to retreat and balance our own energy for our own good and wellbeing. Your posts exude a lot of wisdom about this. Thank you for sharing.

Trees

[Jolie40]

Some days we know that there's a lot happening, and it is going to take a lot of energy.

being an introvert, I've found that I tolerate things that "I've chosen" to do better than unexpected events

a former neighbor died & there is an "honoring him" at daughter's house
we must go but I've been dreading it ever since I found out
I know the house will be crowded & I also don't want to catch covid which is still in our county

decided to go early & then sneak out before it gets too crowded

[1footouttadefog]

Ia fortunate that despite having so many Narcs and PD folks in my life, I am able to find those who are not and who share my values so I can strive to be my best self without them working against me. 

I hope you find your own tribe soon.  Until then be strong and be you.