Coping with extreme guilt

[Sidney37]

So I've realized now that I'm away from the constant, intense criticism about everything I did, I have internalized the guilt that she put on me.  I had no idea that my every move was met with severe guilt.  She's not even in my life and I'm feeling guilty about everything that she would have blamed me for.

Son left cookies out and the dog ate them.  Overwhelming guilt that it will be by all my fault if the dog gets sick because I didn't check to see where he left the plate of cookies.  Husband casually mentions he forgot to take his morning medicine.  Overwhelming guilt that it was my fault because I asked him to drive son to school at the time his meds are due.  I should have known not to ask during that time.  Daughter doesn't make the sports team she wanted, overwhelming guilt that I should have paid for a lesson or bought different sports equipment.  Container of milk gets knocked over.  Her voice in my head telling me how irresponsible I was to leave the milk out until after I fed the dog.  If I had put it away first...  you get the idea.  Guilt over everything. 

At first I heard my PDm in my head blaming me for countless things an hour.  Now it's usually not her voice, but my own and it makes me so angry.  Today I couldn't make it through 10 minutes without feeling overwhelming guilt and self blame for at least 30-40 things.  This goes on all day.  I didn't quite realize it until my husband asked what I was feeling guilty about and I shared with him my inner dialogue for about 15 minutes.  I was stunned.

I'm going to discuss it with my therapist, but has anyone else dealt with this and how did you cope or lessen the overwhelming guilt and self blame? 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Oh my, yes! And then it became how could I be talking down to myself all the time, it's your own fault you're depressed and angry, you have only yourself to blame 

In other words for me it got worse before it got better. But it did get better.

The internal dialogue you describe is the external dialogue of my father to my mother and to us children. I noticed how severe it was as an adult when I witnessed him harass my mother that way the entire time she fixed herself a sandwich, with her trying to justify her every move. From how she hung the towel up to why she used a certain plate, to why she's even having a sandwich at all. They were acting like this was NORMAL and then I realized oh my gosh, this IS NORMAL in this family, and I lived with it myself for years.

What helps me is turning that lack of love and compassion for myself into anger. I filled pages and pages of my journal with it. I cried stormy tears. I revisit that anger whenI hear that critical voice in my head again. It's been difficult with regard to Christmas. As you can imagine in an OCPD household, there were very high expectations that I'm still working on shedding three years NC.

Awareness is of course the first step. It's hard to realize that you've been unconsciously carrying that very heavy burden, and it's hard to put it down, too! I imagine I feel as Atlas would if he discovered gravity would keep the earth in place completely without his intervention.

[Danden]

I feel this way too.  More than guilt, I experience an extremely high sense of responsibility.  Maybe it is a more moderate form of guilt.  I think it is my job to do everything for everybody.  Like, you, whenever my kids are disappointed in something, I think I could have done something better or different for them.  Right now, my adult daughter says she is bored with her job (she just graduated) and she says she chose this profession because of me, so she blames me.  I don't feel guilt, but I feel bad that she blames me.  She should be thanking her parents for supporting her.  I think that in general, she doesn't take enough responsibility for her own life.  She could investigate alternative career paths with her degree if she is not happy with what she is doing.  So I am responsible, right?  I raised her, after all.   

I also feel responsible for little things, like if we run out of juice or bread or bananas, I feel bad cause someone doesn't have it when they want it.  or if I make something for dinner that someone doesn't like, I feel bad so instead I provide more than one option so everyone has something they like.  If I decide to not put up the Christmas decorations people will be disappointed, even though they could do it themselves.  If my kid doesn't change the oil in their car, it is because I didn't remind them of it or teach them the importance of it.  So I am always thinking of a lot of things that are my responsibility (and probably they are not that important) and putting a burden on myself that way.

[Amadahy]

Oh, yes!  I can relate, unfortunately.  Even if I can't put into words, I have this pervasive sense of "shouldn't" almost all the time.  I shouldn't be relaxing. I shouldn't have left my soul-killing job.  I shouldn't be too depressed to tidy the house.  You get the idea.  A few months ago, I began a job at my college alma mater and I was struck how strong the "shouldn't" was there -- I shouldn't have any fun.  I shouldn't enjoy myself too much.  I shouldn't individuate from my Nmom.  It made me extremely sad!  I hadn't realized most of my life consisted of shaming myself in this way.  Of course, my logical brain knows these feelings are not based on any truth, but the programming is strong.  I hope you can find help with your therapist!  Before my therapist moved town, I was helped with feelings of shame through EMDR. 

[Jolie40]

even though we know we can't control everything, it does feel like we're responsible for everything!

i.e. bought a craft kit so we could have fun/work together on project
little did I know child would go to basement to start it while husband & still sleeping
child accidently cut self so bad, had to have surgery!

So-
1) guilty for buying kit in first place
2) guilty for not thinking to tell child to wait for us
3) guilty for not knowing child would attempt to work on it w/o us
4) guilty for not telling child to not use a knife when we're not around
5) guilty that child had to undergo surgery during pandemic

so much guilt

[Psuedonym]

Hey Sidney37,

A couple of things. First, here's a really good book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010QI2LM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Second, and this is a weird concept to wrap your head around, but there's something comforting about the guilt you are feeling, and a reason that you keep it around. That reason being that if you feel guilty about everything going on in your life, that means that you are in control of all things. You and you alone can fix everything. To give up that guilt (which was put upon you as a child) means that you really can't control #@$% that happens like the dog eating the cookies or your husband forgetting to take his meds. It's a scary thing, to admit that you aren't in control of everything, and it's sometimes scarier to admit that you can't control everything than to live with the belief that you just aren't trying hard enough.

i've been where you are, and I think it's an inportant step in being happier and healthier; realizing that you have no super human abilities to make everything okay for everyone else.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Wow that's an amazing insight Pseudonym. It explains why in Catholic spirituality these sort of faults are born of the sin of pride. That often tripped me up, because I have low self-esteem already, and you're telling me I'm too proud. Which is my fault too. Shame spiral! This whole struggle IS born of pride, but not my own! My part is accepting or not what was put on me of that toxic guilt.

If we want to go really deep with this all sin can be approached in this way, it is not in my nature to sin, but my inclination to sin is a result of past sins, my own and other people's, all the way back to Adam and Eve. And every sin does have an element of this pride/false idea we are in control. This is merely a very clear (now) example of the idea of concupiscence. A very useful concept, especially with kids lol.

It also explains some of the scapegoating mechanism to me. The PD has gigantic pride, but the effects of it are too uncomfortable. So horcrux-like that part of the PD is split off. He keeps the pride, scapegoat holds the yucky emotional consequences of guilt and shame. Perfect (for the PD). But not really because like Voldemort, splitting oneself actually makes the personality MORE fragile. They must have the scapegoat or face all that themselves. Except for them it's deserved, and that much harder to bear, not least because the personal responsibility part of them never developed, or was there in nascent form but they didn't really have a use for it. Like a psychological appendix. All they know is it can get inflamed at times and that is to be avoided at all costs. We can put down the guilt because it doesn't belong to us. Healing for a Pd would mean ACCEPTING guilt and shame. How the only way out forVoldemort  would have been remorse, but (spoiler alert) he chose not to go there.

So moral theology and Harry Potter. Works for me!

[Sidney37]

Cordelia
As always, thank you. Often I find our experiences, emotions and reactions so similar.  I appreciate your insight. 

Oh my, yes! And then it became how could I be talking down to myself all the time, it's your own fault you're depressed and angry, you have only yourself to blame 

In other words for me it got worse before it got better. But it did get better.

That's exactly it.  This week I found myself hearing her tell me that she didn't tell me these things. She wasn't trying to make me feel guilty.  I was telling myself these things.  She isbn't even around.  This is all my own fault for being to sensitive and feeling guilty.   

The internal dialogue is certainly the external dialogue she has with me and my father.  She would come to my house a few times a year and she would criticize, guilt trip and shame constantly.  Why household projects weren't done since the last time she was here was a favorite.  Shaming because every bit of laundry wasn't done at all time was another. 

What people wore was a big issue of complaint for her.  She'd send my father back to the closet at home or suitcase here multiple times to change clothes.  Those pants are too old.  Those pants are too new.  That shirt is for working and cooking and you are leaving the house.  That shirt is too nice for working or cooking. I live in a beach community that isn't the ocean.  She doesn't.  She flipped out on me that I couldn't wear my beach coverup and sun hat to pick up something for dinner at the supermarket on my way home from the beach.  She demanded that I go home and change.  I was starting Out of the FOG and said no.  She was irate.  She refused to go into the market with me.  Sat in the sweltering hot car and complained for days that she had to sit with the car door open and still could have died from heat exhaustion over a long sleeve bathing suit coverup that looked like a summer dress and went below my knees and a sun hat.

What he ate every time he put it in his mouth was wrong.  He was eating too early, too late, too little, too much, too loudly.  He thinks it's normal.  In his last communication with me about the situation, he told me that he has realized (she has forced him to accept) that all of these critical things she says are just for his own good, to help him.  I should understand that they are for my own good, too. 

What helps me is turning that lack of love and compassion for myself into anger. I filled pages and pages of my journal with it. I cried stormy tears. I revisit that anger whenI hear that critical voice in my head again. It's been difficult with regard to Christmas. As you can imagine in an OCPD household, there were very high expectations that I'm still working on shedding three years NC.

Oh I'm angry.  The problem is that I am way too angry.  It might not be too angry, but angry most of thee time and ragey angry.  Like I have fleeting thoughts of throwing my coffee cup and throwing rocks at the person who made me angry.  I don't and I calm down, but the anger isn't being stuffed down and it's coming on stronger when I hear her guilt inducing statements in my head.   Now I need to calm the anger.  I don't want to take it out on my husband and kids. 

[nanotech]

Yes me too. I self- criticise all the time.
Yes that there's pride in feeling we are in control. Yes, to let go of that can feel terrifying. There's a certain sense of self- congratulatory superiority
about it.

But it has to go....

I got up one morning recently and wrote on my arm
' no anxiety today.'
It was interesting. I just didn't worry or feel guilty all day, Everything I did, I accepted. Everything that happened, I accepted.
Yet I had this odd achy feeling- I  missed the anxiety! And it felt as if I'd put a burden down, or perhaps a baby, and something was nagging at me to go pick it up again! I didn't. I missed feeling as if I were in control. Yet also, I felt lighter and freer.
I'm trying this again to see how this goes.
Kris Godinez tells us that the critical inner voice isn't our voice, it's the voice of our abuser. We are not born with an inner critic. She suggests telling it to get the hell out!
Life happens and  we are not to blame.

[Sidney37]

Thanks everyone! 

Pseudonym.  I had never thought about it that way.  It is great insight.  I do have a extreme desire to control everything.  Giving up the need to micromanage was one of the first things my new therapist had me working on. 

An example ... DH has a terrible habit of turning off the alarm instead of hitting snooze.  It happens in his sleep and can't remember any of it.  He'll sleep for hours after.  I would feel such guilt and responsibility (and hearing PDm's voice saying that it would be all my fault if he missed a meeting and if he got fired but also calling him her usual string of insults - lazy, selfish, entitled, a chauvinist, and on and on).  I informed him that he was responsible for waking up and I wasn't going to wake him up after the alarm got turned off.  It's a step and I'm trying not to feel guilty. 

It's not easy to give up this constant guilt or the need to control. 

[Fiasco]

This thread was eye opening for me, thank you for starting it. I agree 100% with Pseudonym it's one way we try to convince ourselves we're in control of a very out of control world. One random tip that helps me a lot is one I got from a book about anger, which I read trying to undo the instant rage I learned from my BPDm. (Which, come to think of it, she takes everything personally. Everything is about her but nothing is her fault lol) The tip is whenever you're repeating in your head how unfair something is, or in this case Sidney how bad you were to let something happen, you change your statement to "it's unfortunate that happened". When I'm obsessing on something or feeling bad about yet another thing I can't possibly control I force myself to say "it's too bad that happened" or "it would have been nicer if that didn't happen" and I swear I can feel my shoulders unclench.

[Sidney37]

Hey Sidney37,

A couple of things. First, here's a really good book on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010QI2LM/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Pseudonym.  Thanks again for the book recommendation. I read it all yesterday!  It was helpful.  Now I'm reading CPTSD - Surviving to Thriving and looking for a book on toxic shame.  Does anyone have any recommendations?