Struggling with the New Me

Started by Hopeful Spine, April 15, 2020, 12:52:18 PM

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Wilderhearts

Wow - reading this has been eye opening for me, as someone who's recently recognizing more of her own co-dependent behaviours and need to "save" people from themselves, and possibly save relationships that aren't worth saving by compensating for others' insufficient contributions.  Thanks for having such a great conversation going.

A few things popped into my head while reading:

Tolerating disrespect is not the admission price to respectful relationships.  We don't have to "get through" the disrespect, being taken advantage of, walked over etc in order to get to the respect on the other side.  If we're not being respected, it's either because the person simply doesn't respect us, or because they don't know how to be respectful.  What I struggle with is recognizing that it's not my responsibility to teach them more respectful behaviour.

My best-friend (who always meets me half way, btw) explained to me how I am also usually the bigger person, show more integrity, give more than I take.  It sounds like a lot of us here have incredibly high standards for how we treat others, and I think it sets us up for disappointment. We set the bar high with our own behaviour, and most people can't figure out how to treat us as well as we treat them, so we often aren't treated the way we treat others.

This, for me, has resulted in an ever-shrinking pool of friends.  A couple of times, I've told myself "I have friends who don't treat me this way, I don't need to put energy into this relationship" when someone blames their shitty treatment of me on me, gets passive aggressive and resentful when I say "I'm not comfortable doing that" or pretends to not have heard my boundaries/preferences altogether.

If you don't already have friends that treat you as you treat others, it can be so much harder to let go.  When I was trapped in a toxic "relationship," it eroded my self-worth to the point that I stopped expecting better, because better wasn't possible from him. Funny how people whose company isolates you make you even more afraid of being alone.  Leaving that toxic "relationship" (I won't call it a relationship because it really was a one-way street) was one of the best decisions I've made in the past ten years.  I saw a saying: "any time you leave something toxic to you, you've won."  It's been very true for me.

I feel resentful towards people when I violate my own boundaries, when I let them keep taking even after I have nothing left to give.  If someone keeps dumping their emotional issues on me when I am emotionally exhausted myself, it's on me to say "I can't have this conversation," or to leave the conversation.  It is self-centred of them to not factor in my needs (when they know what's going on with me) but people don't know our boundaries until we speak them, I'm learning from reading about boundaries.  When I speak a boundary, and somebody still keeps insisting I do what I've said I won't/can't/don't want to do, that is them disrespecting a boundary, and I naturally feel angry.  But that feeling is very different from the resentment I feel when I'm not even practicing my own boundaries, because I'm prioritizing others at the expense of my wellbeing.

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: Wilderhearts on April 25, 2020, 06:24:30 PM
Tolerating disrespect is not the admission price to respectful relationships.  We don't have to "get through" the disrespect, being taken advantage of, walked over etc in order to get to the respect on the other side.  If we're not being respected, it's either because the person simply doesn't respect us, or because they don't know how to be respectful.  What I struggle with is recognizing that it's not my responsibility to teach them more respectful behaviour.

Thanks for all your comments!  This snip above really spoke to me.  I do usually feel like I have to "endure" something in order to make it feel worthwhile.  And I too feel the responsibility to teach them.

I have a customer that comes in and is very bossy and entitled.  The first time I worked with her was about 3 years ago and she was incredibly rude and condescending.  At that time I really was a doormat so I endured it.  Like, the whole time I knew she was wrong to behave that way, but I allowed it.  I had the inner confidence to know that I could help her and that what I was offering her was quality.  So I "let" her behave the way she did.  I finished the work and she was pleased.  Which made me feel a bit smug but not really all that great.

When she came in the second time I met her attitude with amusement and cheerfully did the work.  She called the shots and I complied on her terms.  It was almost a game to me.  When she finally left my office I felt flooded with relief - and shame.  It was no longer a game. 

The most recent time she came in she behaved the same but this time I said something like, "actually - that's not how I do things anymore."  I kept some control of the transaction and while she was notably annoyed, she followed my rules.  I wasn't as strong as I wanted to be but when she left I felt okay.  I dealt with her a number of ways and I doubt that I earned her respect at any time.  But I finally earned my own.

This past weekend I ran into an problematic in law.  Usually she makes back-handed compliments about something I'm wearing or how my hair looks or something of mine that she noticed on social media.  She seems so natural and kind with other people and it always makes me feel weird.

Well, this time when I saw her I had been doing my chores all day and did NOT look good at all.  To my surprise she was incredibly nice and seemingly genuine.  Very friendly, open and and funny.  I was nice in return and I really didn't think about her again the rest of the evening.

But I did think about it later.  Usually I look nice and she piles on all the weird comments and mind games.  She loads up on compliments and the whole weird treatment of nice, mixed in with her passive aggression makes me feel uncomfortable and small.  Even though she has been complimentary and "nice" I usually leave and anger lingers the rest of the evening and I feel bad about myself.

But this time, when I looked like crap, she treated me really nicely.  In fact anytime my life was low (like when my husband drank and cheated on me) she was very nice and seemingly genuine.  I would always leave those conversations feeling like I was special and that we were FINALLY becoming close.

That whole thing was an eye opener.  I really believe that I begin all my exchanges with her with hope and expectation that we will get along and have a nice time together.  But I leave each exchange with very different outcomes.  And it hurts greatly when the outcome is not favorable.  To the point where I start going down a bad road in my head.  This is something that I HAVE to fix for myself.  I need to be able to understand that her treatment of me is her own insecurity.  I need to be able to walk away feeling either pleased or somewhat disappointed - not elated or destroyed. 

BTW, she is an absolutely beautiful woman with an amazing career, home, family.  She is incredibly smart, talented and funny.  People love her to pieces.  Why she'd be jealous or insecure around me baffles me.

When I boil it all down - it seems like I need to "earn" her respect by being "less than".  Like if I want her to like me I just need to show up to parties looking crappy.  Or present my weaknesses.  Then she will be easy to get along with me and will like me.  This is the circus that has been in my mind for years.  This weekend, for the first time, I saw this behavior from her and I'm done chasing her approval.  It was easy to handle this time because she was being really nice to me.  But I need to make sure that the next time (assuming I look good - lol) I'm able to handle it when she treats me badly.  I need to not let her attitude toward me ruin my mental health.

Wilderhearts

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on April 28, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
When she came in the second time I met her attitude with amusement and cheerfully did the work.  She called the shots and I complied on her terms.  It was almost a game to me.  When she finally left my office I felt flooded with relief - and shame.  It was no longer a game. 
Yep, you're definitely the bigger person!  :yes:

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on April 28, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
The most recent time she came in she behaved the same but this time I said something like, "actually - that's not how I do things anymore."  I kept some control of the transaction and while she was notably annoyed, she followed my rules.  I wasn't as strong as I wanted to be but when she left I felt okay.  I dealt with her a number of ways and I doubt that I earned her respect at any time.  But I finally earned my own.
Goon on you!  That's excellent.  Are you also meeting her annoyance with that amusement and cheerfulness?  Because to me, that is the perfect picture of confidence and healthy boundaries.

This is a great example of a boundary - "That's not how I do things."

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on April 28, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Quote from: Wilderhearts on April 25, 2020, 06:24:30 PM

BTW, she is an absolutely beautiful woman with an amazing career, home, family.  She is incredibly smart, talented and funny.  People love her to pieces.  Why she'd be jealous or insecure around me baffles me.

When I boil it all down - it seems like I need to "earn" her respect by being "less than".  Like if I want her to like me I just need to show up to parties looking crappy.  Or present my weaknesses.  Then she will be easy to get along with me and will like me. 

In my experience, people are intuitively aware of other's standards for integrity, whether or not we meet someone's standards and whether or not they meet ours.  People who slather "niceness" onto pettiness, cattiness, or judgmental attitudes are (surprise) pretty dismissive and catty towards me, or subtly passive aggressive in a "nice" way, no matter their age, looks, or accomplishments.

I had this discussion with someone who also left a toxic workplace.  People at our workplaces knew we can their number down, they knew (on some level) that we knew they were toxic, and wouldn't be complicit in contributing to a toxic environment.  So we both became the scapegoat.

This does sound like a scapegoat dynamic to me - it's also common for pwPDs to emotionally destroy someone so they can then swoop in and comfort them.  Sounds like she's taking small but consistent digs at your confidence, whittling it down so she can build it up.  It puts her in control over how you feel about yourself - grey rock could be a good tool for responding to these situations.

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: Wilderhearts on April 28, 2020, 08:18:02 PM
This does sound like a scapegoat dynamic to me - it's also common for pwPDs to emotionally destroy someone so they can then swoop in and comfort them.  Sounds like she's taking small but consistent digs at your confidence, whittling it down so she can build it up.  It puts her in control over how you feel about yourself - grey rock could be a good tool for responding to these situations.

Thanks for this.  It's a bit of outside perspective that validates what I'm feeling.  To be fair she had told me in the past that she has insecurities (in general).  So when she'd behave this way I'd cut her some slack.  But when she's (what I feel) actually nice she is So. Dang. WONDERFUL.  Like, why can't she be that way most of the time?  We'd have such a lovely friendship if she did.  But I'm finally seeing that it's NOT going to happen.  But most of the time she's mean, exclusive, and snarky rude.  And pretty mean to her husband who is really nice.  So if she can cut her husband down - she's certainly going to do the same to me.  I can't deal with it.  So grey rock it is.

Hopeful Spine

Trying hard today to not get sucked back in.  One of my SIL's is constantly yanking my chain.  She's nice, considerate, sweet . . . and then she zings.  I initially admired this woman and when I married my husband I expected that we'd be best friends forever.  I really felt like she mutually enjoyed and cared about me.  But she turned out to be selfish, jealous and would use subtle ways to hurt me. 

One incident was her telling me that she couldn't attend my milestone birthday party because she "was tired" and then listed all the silly little ways (she had a big meeting that week, her dog was being a handful, her IBS was acting up.)  At that time, all those things seemed like reasonable excuses.  But I was hurt.  Even though I would never let those excuses keep me from a friends birthday party, I accepted it.  In the end she attended but she played "poor me" all evening and pointedly didn't sit next me. 

Anyway, that particular incident was years ago and very minor compared to other hurts.  In those years I've seen her "pick and choose" when she wanted to be close and she has hurt and celebrated me in ways that are too extreme to be normal.

A few weeks ago my husband had some exciting news and she was genuinely complimentary to him.  We thanked her and it was a nice conversation.  The following week we saw each other in passing.  This time I looked horrible and she seemed pleased about this and was extra nice toward me.  Like genuine nice instead of her jealous "nice".  I was kind but paid her very little mind.  This week, out of the blue, she's done three nice things toward me. 

The first was a visit to my work with nice words toward me, but where she was also lamenting on how her husband would not be purchasing a mothers day gift for her.  She shared her disappointment of older children who don't appreciate her and a husband that doesn't help the situation.  Usually I enjoy the fact that she was confiding in me and I'd pump her full of nice words.  I was nice and sympathetic but didn't prolong the visit as I had in the past. 

The second was another unexpected drop by with a small thoughtful gift.  She didn't stick around and actually had her child run it to my door.  She smiled, shouted a friendly hello, and was cheerful and lovely as she drove away.

And, just now, a sweet mention on social media.  The kind of mention that longtime friends or happy sisters post to each other.  A nice one.  The sort of thing I long for.

For the first time ever I'm not as conflicted as usual.  Usually I'd dive back in, thinking that this time it would be different.  That the pandemic has changed her.  That her new career role changed her.  That maybe she's also seen the good things in my life recently and she really likes and respects me and wants in.  Like maybe I've finally "cracked the code" and am good enough for her.  Finally.

Today I'm still hoping those things but knowing deep down that it's not true.  Nothing has changed.  She's feeling a dip in her self esteem and needs a boost.  Or she wants to be seen as the supportive sister as my husband publicly progresses in his goals.  I used to be an easy boost.  She'd give me a little attention and I've give her my all. 

Today I will "like" her social media post and move on. 

I will NOT PM her with a chatty exchange.  I will NOT use this opportunity to lend her that thing we talked about.  I will NOT ask her to go on a socially distanced walk.  I will NOT try to arrange a outing for later this summer.  Because I know that even though she will initially be friendly and happy with my advances, in the end it will end in disappointment and heartbreak.  It always does.

I will not even proceed cautiously, accepting that I MIGHT get hurt.  Because I will.  I always, always do.  And I don't want that for myself.

Yes, today I will "like" her post and I will then text a trusted friend to check in on her.  I will enjoy connecting with a person who I know will NOT hurt me in the end.

doingoveroroverdoing

Very smart plan, stay tough. Good for you.  :thumbup: :)

Hopeful Spine

I have found that a lot of my feelings with my in-laws aren't necessarily because **I** feel slighted.  I mean, there are a few folks that really get to me but the rest are nice to me.  I'm finding that I get annoyed and off track when I feel that my husband is slighted.  I truly believe him when he says that he doesn't care.  I mean I do know that he cares a little but I also know that he bounces to better things pretty quickly.

I just saw a photo on social media of some of his siblings having a nice weekend together with their family friend.  I don't know if my husband was included in this plan or if he opted not to go.  I actually would imagine that he was included since they are famous for huge texting chains.

Anyway, I'm looking at these people.  My "family".  They are smiling and looking happy.  They always treat me nicely when I see them.  But I'm looking at the five of them and thinking, "huh . . ."

1. "You didn't make time for him when he needed advice.  And he called you like three times."
2. "You never answer his texts (even though you are on your phone constantly) and you usually try to get a couple digs at him in public."
3.  "You let your wife behave horribly towards him and silently watched her humiliate him. And then acted like it was no big deal."
4. "You are the sweetest one, but you are always drunk and pick arguments.  To the point my husband wants to leave the party."
5. "You insert yourself into family relationships and cause problems and then the rest of the family caters to you.  And you know it."

I jog over to one of their profiles and see a pic of my MIL holding that persons child.  And MIL is gushing about love.  But I know that she talks crap about them every chance she gets.  And she barely calls anyone in the family and pouts when she doesn't get the most attention.  She passive aggressively allows her husband to call the shots and then complains about him - all the time.  She almost seems to enjoy sharing rolled eyes and faces with everyone else.  On one hand I can't blame her, he's exhausting.  On the other hand - she kept quiet for 50 some years and is clearly unhappy.  It's time for her to try something new.  I'm reminded of how she loves babies but loses interest when they grow up. I think of how she doesn't reach out and how that hurts some people in the family.  It conflicts with the close relationship my husband has with her.  And I fully know that they are close only because of my husbands efforts.

I'm so happy with the life my husband and I built.  We don't need them.  This time of quarantine has been wonderful in that regard.  And we've been doing a lot of things with my family lately and we enjoy it.  I've been reaching out to friends and enjoying the return messages.
Work is going wonderfully.  This whole day was a wonderful day of life's enjoyments and accomplishments.  Life is grand! 

So why the heck do I get so worked up when I see a photo of these people, minding their own business, and enjoying each other?  Especially when I'm having an awesome day?  Why do I pick them all apart when they aren't even bothering me?  Something for me to think about.  And change.

Spring Butterfly

The Toolbox topic My Stuff Your Stuff helped me so much plus knowing how boundaries is about where I end and others begin helped me separate myself and be less affected by stuff that honestly wasn't my stuff and wasn't me.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage — prep beforehand and make time after to heal
blog for healing

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: Spring Butterfly on May 19, 2020, 07:41:17 AM
The Toolbox topic My Stuff Your Stuff helped me so much plus knowing how boundaries is about where I end and others begin helped me separate myself and be less affected by stuff that honestly wasn't my stuff and wasn't me.

Thank you for your thoughts.  Could you direct me on how to find this.  I'm failing to do so.

PeanutButter

Digging deep into the unconscious beliefs we hold is empowering.

If I do something I dont want to do, something I actually think someone else should do, but they wont do it, and then I feel resentful at that other person, then I am holding the unconscious belief that the other person made me do it, that they are controlling me.

That is not true though. Noone else can control me but me! I can only control me. I cant control anyone else.

Even if you ask someone to do something but they say 'No' or just dont do it, you still are NOT being 'made' to do it. You have a choice. You are responsible for that choice.

IME getting honest with myself about the expectations I unconsciously have for other people is helpful too.

If any of this resonates with you, https://psychcentral.com/lib/codependency-causes-anger-and-resentment-8-tips-on-anger-management/

I know notrightinthehead already mentioned this to you, but since what I described above is codependency, i thought it was worth a shot to repeat it.
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

PeanutButter

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on May 19, 2020, 11:46:00 AM
Quote from: Spring Butterfly on May 19, 2020, 07:41:17 AM
The Toolbox topic My Stuff Your Stuff helped me so much plus knowing how boundaries is about where I end and others begin helped me separate myself and be less affected by stuff that honestly wasn't my stuff and wasn't me.

Thank you for your thoughts.  Could you direct me on how to find this.  I'm failing to do so.

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/understand-my-stuffyour-stuff
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

Spring Butterfly

PB posted the link (thanks) and there's other stuff in there. You can find it on the menu at the top of the page. The main category is toolbox and then there's several sections underneath and specifically the what to do section is like a road map.
Every interaction w/ PD persons results in damage — prep beforehand and make time after to heal
blog for healing

doingoveroroverdoing

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on May 16, 2020, 03:01:53 PM
I'm finding that I get annoyed and off track when I feel that my husband is slighted.  I truly believe him when he says that he doesn't care.  I mean I do know that he cares a little but I also know that he bounces to better things pretty quickly.

....

I jog over to one of their profiles and see a pic of my MIL holding that persons child.  And MIL is gushing about love.  But I know that she talks crap about them every chance she gets.  And she barely calls anyone in the family and pouts when she doesn't get the most attention.  She passive aggressively allows her husband to call the shots and then complains about him - all the time.  She almost seems to enjoy sharing rolled eyes and faces with everyone else.  On one hand I can't blame her, he's exhausting.  On the other hand - she kept quiet for 50 some years and is clearly unhappy.  It's time for her to try something new.  I'm reminded of how she loves babies but loses interest when they grow up. I think of how she doesn't reach out and how that hurts some people in the family.  It conflicts with the close relationship my husband has with her.  And I fully know that they are close only because of my husbands efforts.

I'm so happy with the life my husband and I built.  We don't need them.  This time of quarantine has been wonderful in that regard.  And we've been doing a lot of things with my family lately and we enjoy it.  I've been reaching out to friends and enjoying the return messages.
Work is going wonderfully.  This whole day was a wonderful day of life's enjoyments and accomplishments.  Life is grand! 

So why the heck do I get so worked up when I see a photo of these people, minding their own business, and enjoying each other?  Especially when I'm having an awesome day?  Why do I pick them all apart when they aren't even bothering me?  Something for me to think about.  And change.

doingoveroroverdoing

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on May 16, 2020, 03:01:53 PM
I'm finding that I get annoyed and off track when I feel that my husband is slighted.  I truly believe him when he says that he doesn't care.  I mean I do know that he cares a little but I also know that he bounces to better things pretty quickly.

....

I jog over to one of their profiles and see a pic of my MIL holding that persons child.  And MIL is gushing about love.  But I know that she talks crap about them every chance she gets.  And she barely calls anyone in the family and pouts when she doesn't get the most attention.  She passive aggressively allows her husband to call the shots and then complains about him - all the time.  She almost seems to enjoy sharing rolled eyes and faces with everyone else.  On one hand I can't blame her, he's exhausting.  On the other hand - she kept quiet for 50 some years and is clearly unhappy.  It's time for her to try something new.  I'm reminded of how she loves babies but loses interest when they grow up. I think of how she doesn't reach out and how that hurts some people in the family.  It conflicts with the close relationship my husband has with her.  And I fully know that they are close only because of my husbands efforts.

I'm so happy with the life my husband and I built.  We don't need them.  This time of quarantine has been wonderful in that regard.  And we've been doing a lot of things with my family lately and we enjoy it.  I've been reaching out to friends and enjoying the return messages.
Work is going wonderfully.  This whole day was a wonderful day of life's enjoyments and accomplishments.  Life is grand! 

So why the heck do I get so worked up when I see a photo of these people, minding their own business, and enjoying each other?  Especially when I'm having an awesome day?  Why do I pick them all apart when they aren't even bothering me?  Something for me to think about.  And change.

Hello again hopeful,

Your thread has been really useful to me, revisiting things I haven't thought about in a while.

Of course it's hard to see people you care about be abused. In me, and I  think it's typical, it generates SUCH strong feelings. Doesn't matter how the person being bullied reacts. It's physically hard to tolerate. 

My siblings and I protected one another. I'd take garbage from a boss or co-worker, but could call BS or take action when they crossed a line with other people.  The feelings, reactions aren't available when stuff happens to me. 

Also, I think I experienced my DH's tolerance of his emotionally abusive family as rejection. Their abuse of him was really upsetting to me, but it didn't bother him. It still feels like that, just less acute & now I get what's happening. Detaching does not feel like the right thing to do, but I have to do it anyway. 

My MIL wasn't so openly abusive (the behavior you describe absolutely is abuse), but she was a real piece of work. As it sounds like your DH has, mine transferred his loyalty to his wife, prioritized his own new family. He didn't   overtly belong to them. He recognized they were problematic.

Still his tolerating, turning the other cheek, eating dirt, however you look at it, felt, to me, like a rejection of our life. His not wanting to *really* get his mom's...limitations, lack of curiosity, made me feel alone. I have been going down these roads with my family, and including & relying on him, but he didn't want to do the same thing. I think that really bothered me. Still does.

I'm glad you asked for & got that link to tools. I had a hard time finding the info to which everyone referred when I first got on here, but I was too embarrassed to ask.

Hth

Thanks for writing.













Hopeful Spine

Quote from: PeanutButter on May 19, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Digging deep into the unconscious beliefs we hold is empowering.

If I do something I dont want to do, something I actually think someone else should do, but they wont do it, and then I feel resentful at that other person, then I am holding the unconscious belief that the other person made me do it, that they are controlling me.

That is not true though. Noone else can control me but me! I can only control me. I cant control anyone else.

Thanks so much for that link.  I knew I was co-dependent and full of resentment.  This article really cemented it for me.  I am agreeable - always.  And usually when I'm agreeable I really feel I am.  But then I resent it all later and I don't understand because I honestly felt okay in the moment.  Lately though I'm agreeable on the outside but inside I'm knowing that I'm going down a wrong path.  I'm trying to listen to that feeling and I've tried in various ways to "stick up" for myself. 

For instance, recently I purchase something off a stranger on social media and we made arrangements.  I deliberately told her what time frame worked best for me.  Without even checking with her.  I know that sounds silly but it was really hard for me to not say, "Anytime works for me, let me know what is best for you."  Because in the past I would have said this and then changed my entire schedule to meet up when it was convenient for her. 

I would have reasoned that I could easily bump an obligation, maybe get up a little earlier or squeeze it between something else I needed to do.  I would have done this.  Period.  I just would have accommodated my schedule to make the person selling the quilt happy.  I would have done this without any irritation because I would just consider it my responsibility to do so.  I would have picked up the quilt, chatted happily with the woman and rushed to figure out the rest of my day.  Then later I would have been frustrated with myself because I hadn't finish a handful of tasks.   I'd resent that I "had" to trot myself 15 miles out of my way, on a busy day.

This time I said what I wanted and unfortunately it wasn't convenient for her.  But she gave me other options and I selected the one that worked best for me.  I can't tell you how "bad assed" I felt, organizing that whole affair.  Like, seriously.  Speaking up for myself in that simple little exchange made me feel amazing.  And that was just a small little thing that most everyone else can do without a thought.  For me it was hard.

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: doingoveroroverdoing on May 21, 2020, 11:32:24 AM
My MIL wasn't so openly abusive (the behavior you describe absolutely is abuse), but she was a real piece of work. As it sounds like your DH has, mine transferred his loyalty to his wife, prioritized his own new family. He didn't   overtly belong to them. He recognized they were problematic.

Still his tolerating, turning the other cheek, eating dirt, however you look at it, felt, to me, like a rejection of our life. His not wanting to *really* get his mom's...limitations, lack of curiosity, made me feel alone. I have been going down these roads with my family, and including & relying on him, but he didn't want to do the same thing. I think that really bothered me. Still does.

Thanks for your reply.  It makes me feel less "sad" knowing that others have and do struggle with these things.  I appreciate you sharing what you've felt as I'm feeling those things too.  I'm reading a lot about emotional maturity and I'm gaining some ownership on what I can and can't control.

The current issue is Memorial Day.  It's a family holiday for my DH's family and this year it's a bit spotty due to the virus.  People are behaving predictably.  Some are not participating in the conversation, opting to decide at the last moment if they will grace us with their presence.  Others are being bossy about what we "should" be doing.  MIL is taking no stance and in one message agreeing that this year we should cancel and then, in reply to someone else, is trying to nudge the party to happen at any costs. 

One sibling is opting to do something with their children instead of participating at the party which in this family is a slap in the face.  No one will say, "sorry you won't be there - we'll miss you and your family".  Not even MIL.  This sibling didn't attend Easter one year.  When I asked MIL where they were she pleasantly said, "You know what?  I don't know.  I haven't heard from them."  Like . . . seriously?  One of your children hasn't checked in or shown up for Easter and you're just like, "Oh well."  That sibling later told me that they were testing their mother to see if she cared enough to call and was ultimately hurt when MIL didn't call until weeks later.  Passive aggressive?  Yes.  But I almost don't blame them for doing that and it's almost enough for me to forgive them for when they are outright crappy to others for no reason.  Hurt people, hurt people.

I got over the ugly feelings I had about his siblings last weekend.  I kind of forgot about Memorial day being this weekend.  When DH and I spoke last night I felt myself growing annoyed.  I was biting my tongue.  My mind jumped to conclusions.  I was already dreading the SIL who will be on her phone all day long.  I didn't want to deal with other SIL who will only complain about her child - if she attends at all.  (this person used to be one of my besties when I complained all the time.  She's no so interested in me anymore).  I was annoyed with the sibling who is bowing out but also sort of impressed that they've made this stand.  Of course I will hate it if the really awful SIL is there.  DH was frustrated by all of them.

I've been feeling a sense of dread over this.  A bit anxious, distracted, wondering how the event will unfold.  I found myself really, really wishing we had an excuse to not go.  And I'm realizing now that I DO have a choice.  We don't HAVE to attend.  But to not attend WILL hurt my MIL, who, despite all her issues, is sort of a victim in a special way.  My husband will not allow her to be hurt.  And I really don't want to have to tell her, "sorry MIL, but your family is messed up and you aren't helping the situation.  We don't want to be here."

I don't want to waste an entire day, "making the best of things."  Or spending the days leading up to the party, wondering who will be there, how they will behave, what sort of conversation starters I should probably have ready?  I don't want to show up and "grey rock" the whole damn day when DH and I could be having fun taking care of projects on our list.

As always I find myself wishing that people would "cooperate".  That they will change their tune and be nice, fun, inclusive.  I'm wanting them to be a certain way, to make myself feel better.  After reading new things today I realize that thinking is wrong.  They are going to be how they are going to be.  I can only decide to play along or make other plans.  Everything else I'm hoping for is a waste of time, energy and emotions.  Healthy people, heal themselves.  And that is what I need to do.

PeanutButter

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on May 21, 2020, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: PeanutButter on May 19, 2020, 01:14:48 PM
Digging deep into the unconscious beliefs we hold is empowering.

If I do something I dont want to do, something I actually think someone else should do, but they wont do it, and then I feel resentful at that other person, then I am holding the unconscious belief that the other person made me do it, that they are controlling me.

That is not true though. Noone else can control me but me! I can only control me. I cant control anyone else.

Thanks so much for that link.  I knew I was co-dependent and full of resentment.  This article really cemented it for me. I am agreeable - always.  And usually when I'm agreeable I really feel I am.  But then I resent it all later and I don't understand because I honestly felt okay in the moment. Lately though I'm agreeable on the outside but inside I'm knowing that I'm going down a wrong path.  I'm trying to listen to that feeling and I've tried in various ways to "stick up" for myself. 

For instance, recently I purchase something off a stranger on social media and we made arrangements.  I deliberately told her what time frame worked best for me.  Without even checking with her.  I know that sounds silly but it was really hard for me to not say, "Anytime works for me, let me know what is best for you."  Because in the past I would have said this and then changed my entire schedule to meet up when it was convenient for her. 

I would have reasoned that I could easily bump an obligation, maybe get up a little earlier or squeeze it between something else I needed to do.  I would have done this.  Period.  I just would have accommodated my schedule to make the person selling the quilt happy.  I would have done this without any irritation because I would just consider it my responsibility to do so.  I would have picked up the quilt, chatted happily with the woman and rushed to figure out the rest of my day.  Then later I would have been frustrated with myself because I hadn't finish a handful of tasks.   I'd resent that I "had" to trot myself 15 miles out of my way, on a busy day.

This time I said what I wanted and unfortunately it wasn't convenient for her.  But she gave me other options and I selected the one that worked best for me.  I can't tell you how "bad assed" I felt, organizing that whole affair.  Like, seriously.  Speaking up for myself in that simple little exchange made me feel amazing.  And that was just a small little thing that most everyone else can do without a thought.  For me it was hard.
You have great insight too. So you've got this!
I also flipped afterwards. I wondered if I needed to try to be more 'present' in the moment just in general. Certian situations and people cause me to go into an automatic type of functioning that isnt the real me. Only later do I think "hey wait a minute, what in the world did I......?"
I know exactly what you mean! The times that I am aware and am able to start listening to what I really feel, then honor what I hear I want ; I AM EXUBERANT!
Im so glad that you are putting your needs above others.
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: PeanutButter on May 21, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
You have great insight too. So you've got this!
I also flipped afterwards. I wondered if I needed to try to be more 'present' in the moment just in general. Certian situations and people cause me to go into an automatic type of functioning that isnt the real me. Only later do I think "hey wait a minute, what in the world did I......?"

I feel this often too.  I meet with a lot of clients and deal with lots of tasks each day.  I take lots of notes and proceed on with my day.  A few days later I struggle to remember names, or details.  Sometimes I see clients later and I can't even recall meeting them.  It's this way with the "nice" things I choose to do.  I might drop off a treat or little gift to someone.  Like on their porch or leave it at their work.  They call later to thank me and I blank out, wondering what they are thanking me for.  I mean I remember doing it but sometimes they call me only an hour after I've dropped it off and it already feels like I had done it days ago and I need to jog my memory.

Someone asked me about a medical procedure I had last year and I struggled to remember how all of that unfolded.  I worry that I've stuffed myself into a hole all those years and lived a life I don't even really remember. 

My mother (who is the biggest doormat I've ever known) is this way.  She went on vacation and when she returned someone asked her where she had gone and she couldn't tell them.  She said, "it was a bus trip."  When they asked it she had gone north or south all she said was, "my husband set it all up, I just said to him, okay, where ever you want to go Dale."    She does this for everything.  That is how un-invested in her life she is.  (BTW, she had purchased a Hilton Head sweatshirt while she was on that trip - THAT is how little effort she puts into remembering things).

When this virus is gone I'm going to go in for a check up and rule out medical issues that could leave me foggy.  But overall - I should be able to remember a lot more than I do.  And it might just mean I have to actually be more present and purposeful in the things that I do.

PeanutButter

Quote from: Hopeful Spine on May 22, 2020, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: PeanutButter on May 21, 2020, 02:56:07 PM
You have great insight too. So you've got this!
I also flipped afterwards. I wondered if I needed to try to be more 'present' in the moment just in general. Certian situations and people cause me to go into an automatic type of functioning that isnt the real me. Only later do I think "hey wait a minute, what in the world did I......?"

I feel this often too.  I meet with a lot of clients and deal with lots of tasks each day.  I take lots of notes and proceed on with my day.  A few days later I struggle to remember names, or details.  Sometimes I see clients later and I can't even recall meeting them.  It's this way with the "nice" things I choose to do.  I might drop off a treat or little gift to someone.  Like on their porch or leave it at their work.  They call later to thank me and I blank out, wondering what they are thanking me for.  I mean I remember doing it but sometimes they call me only an hour after I've dropped it off and it already feels like I had done it days ago and I need to jog my memory.

Someone asked me about a medical procedure I had last year and I struggled to remember how all of that unfolded.  I worry that I've stuffed myself into a hole all those years and lived a life I don't even really remember. 

My mother (who is the biggest doormat I've ever known) is this way.  She went on vacation and when she returned someone asked her where she had gone and she couldn't tell them.  She said, "it was a bus trip."  When they asked it she had gone north or south all she said was, "my husband set it all up, I just said to him, okay, where ever you want to go Dale."    She does this for everything.  That is how un-invested in her life she is.  (BTW, she had purchased a Hilton Head sweatshirt while she was on that trip - THAT is how little effort she puts into remembering things).

When this virus is gone I'm going to go in for a check up and rule out medical issues that could leave me foggy.  But overall - I should be able to remember a lot more than I do.  And it might just mean I have to actually be more present and purposeful in the things that I do.
I should definately do a checkup too. I have some 'symptoms' mildly that seem like low hormones. I wonder if that causes memory issues.
I do wonder now that Im aware of my thougths and emotions more I see that I spent years overly focused on others, not myself. So could that cause me not to have many memories of MY experiences if during those I was focused on the other's experience?
You have alot on your shoulders though with your buisness and all the clients. Very impressive imo. Take care of yourself like you do them. ;)
If there is a hidden seed of evil inside of children adults planted it there -LundyBancroft  Self-awareness is the ability to take an honest look at your life without any attachment to it being right or wrong good or bad -DebbieFord The greatest of faults is to be conscious of none -Thomas Carlyle

Hopeful Spine

Quote from: PeanutButter on May 22, 2020, 07:49:50 AM
I should definately do a checkup too. I have some 'symptoms' mildly that seem like low hormones. I wonder if that causes memory issues.
I do wonder now that Im aware of my thougths and emotions more I see that I spent years overly focused on others, not myself. So could that cause me not to have many memories of MY experiences if during those I was focused on the other's experience?
You have alot on your shoulders though with your buisness and all the clients. Very impressive imo. Take care of yourself like you do them. ;)

That's a good point.  I usually can remember other peoples biz-ness more than I remember my own.  There is dementia in my family, although not on my mom's side,  so I worry sometimes that I'm following that path.  I've head that people with trauma are more likely to suffer from things like dementia.  I truly believe that internal health also affects outward health and vice versa.  I've changed my eating patterns for health reasons (instead of "getting thin") and all of this is starting to work.  Man, it's a agonizing  process turning around your whole life.

Thanks for the well wishes.  Hope you have a nice holiday weekend.