Mind games

[Lauren17]

This is incredible insight, Athene, thank you so much for sharing.

[Poison Ivy]

With my ex, OCD definitely seemed to be part of the situation.

[Fae Greenwood]

My uNPDh wants me to make a decision first so he can tell me how I am completely wrong and now he has to choose the right option and aren't I grateful that he saved me from the wrong choice? I ask him to decide first and he gets angry though to be honest he's gotten a bit better the past few years. If only I could count on the improvement being permanent. The thing is that he is genuinely afraid of making any choice because even if it is a good choice or even a meaningless choice, another option might be better. Then the other options, which may not be better in reality, LOOK better to him because he didn't choose them so he tortures himself. He has this running monologue when he drives about how he should have gotten in the other lane or in front of that truck or taken a different off ramp. He did that with my driving and now I rarely drive him anywhere. I thought it was just him but I visited his sister and she drove me around and she did the exact same thing! I asked her about it and she said she didn't realize she even did it. So...brother and sister living apart for over 40 years do the same thing...and now you have a glimpse into my lack of mourning for my late MIL.
Nevertheless, he is a grown ass man and responsible for his behavior now. Also I'm tired of having to defend and justify every damn thing every damn time or live with something I don't like and don't want.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Fae, with the driving, that sounds like an extreme inner critic! He does it to himself and then passes it on to you as well. Sounding like a broken record, but NF did the same to me. I was in my mid-twenties before I could drive without anxiety, and never if NF was around. I think the anxiety was a real safety issue because he would be so keyed up behind the wheel that road rage was easily triggered and he'd drive aggressively if anybody on the road was doing it "wrong."

[guitarman]

It maybe that he is depressed or stressed. People experiencing depression or stress can find it difficult to make even the smallest decision. Then when you make a decision you can get critised for not knowing what they wanted. You aren't a mind reader.

One way of coping is to give them a very limited choice of two items. Then they still have made a decision. For example give them a choice between a chicken or a cheese sandwich. You've already made the choice but they made the final decision.

I know how frustrating and stressful it can be.

Best wishes

Guitarman X

[Jsinjin]

I feel that this type of situation to the PD is both a fear they legitimately have and at the same time a control mechanism.

I too hat the game of "where do you want to eat" or "park" or "what movie do you want to see".   Because it snever clear if they have something they want to see or do or just want to avoid anyone making a decision for fear of it being wrong.   I have cause some angry stuttering with the following "I won't start driving until you tell me what won't be agreeable to you; where do you not want to go or what do you not  feel like eating"   twice this has resulted in significant anger and I think it's because my uOCPDw knows that illl pick something and the "choice" will not have a fallback bad outcome because she was forced to list the things she didn't want.   

I think that the typical joy one gets from social engagements or activities doesn't trigger for my uOCPDw ad joy.   She gets an emotional high from ensuring that whatever the activity is has a direct set of outcomes and control.  I think it's why she prefers board meetings with Roberts rules of order to outdoor concerts or dinner at a local restaurant or going to a. Movie theatre without a plan.   

Mine has only become violent a couple of times.   Once at a restaurant where had specifically gone to breakfast to talk about our marriage and she was on her phone instant messaging one of her constituents only responding to what I said after a few repeats and then annoyed I had pulled her away.    I asked to get our food to go and to leave and she lost it.   Driving home she hit 90 plus mph refusing to let me out of the car and we were pulled over by the police with her screaming.    The police interrogated me separate from her and thought I might be abusing her and then let us go with a warning.   I was pretty scared.    Another one at home when I decided that I didn't care about the junk in the garage before an ice storm was coming and I shoved stuff out of the way to make room for my sports car.    She went ballistic because there was no plan or decision (we have a two car and it's full of every kid outfit, every art project and every Happy meal toy we have ever brought home).   When I took away the capability of her to make the decision or just forced it she lost it violently throwing things away and screaming and asking if I felt better about "this being thrown away" or "trashing this".   

When she has no control over the outcome and someone takes that back for themselces she can't handle it.    I don't know if it's a game or a true mental disease but even a tiny decision that goes against her overall plan can have drastic consequences

[CagedBirdSinging]

I've only just had a chance to reply to this thread. So many different responses, it has been really helpful to read people's thoughts

Yes he has OCD (diagnosed) as well as dBPD and dNPD. I hadnt thought of this through an OCD lense before, so that could be a factor. But i think it's more about control, and about opting out of family life so he has zero responsibility and is free to blame me when things go wrong.

He could well be stressed and depressed, but he has been like this his whole life (by his own admission). He refuses to get help for his mental health and blames everyone else for his behaviour. I used to have so much sympathy for him, but given the behaviour listed below, my sympathy is running out.

If decision makig were the only issue in my marriage, life wouldnt be too bad. The fact is this is only the tip of the iceberg. We're talking verbal abuse, emotional abuse, trying to cut me off from my family and friends, blackmail, passive aggressive silent treatment, ranting and raving, screaming in my face and threatening suicide when i was 6 months pregnant, just because I wasn't doing what he wanted.

So yeah it's not just the decision making!

[Whatthehey]

I was going to start a new thread but the responses here really resonate with me.  My divorce trial is before the magistrate on Thursday (38 hours and counting) and my stbxOCPDh can't agree on the terms of the settlement.  He can't make a decision and perseverating on things like when to file the taxes; how to file the taxes; who get what account and when; how long is the trial (he has to work you know); alimony doesn't seem fair and so on.  We have been going back and forth for months.  My lawyer would draft paperwork and send to his lawyer.  Then the h would call me to ask questions - doesn't want to run up the divorce fee.  I would explain. Next phase - do it again. Now, it is like we are starting over and he is saying - I have never seen this stuff.  I don't know what this is - just on and on.  There is a chance we will have to postpone or go to a full trial.

I only lasted the past 33 years because of confusions, gaslighting and sympathy.  But like CagedBirdSinging, the abuse became borderline physical (threw a punch intentionally and missed my head). 

I think all the claims of emotional turmoil etc and unable to make a decision are attempts to control me.  To control the money.  This has been his pattern of behavior - won't make a decision, moans about it, I decide and then he complains about it.  He gets to see me wriggle the whole way.

I just want out.

[sevenyears]

IME, cagedbird, not offering my views or opinions angered my uocpd exh even more. He thrived on seeking my views for a "discussion" in which he gave me a thousand reasons why I was wrong and should do things his way anyway. He wanted/needed that element of being in control.

[Whiteheron]

 

IME, cagedbird, not offering my views or opinions angered my uocpd exh even more. He thrived on seeking my views for a "discussion" in which he gave me a thousand reasons why I was wrong and should do things his way anyway. He wanted/needed that element of being in control.

stbx thrives on the back and forth. He loved telling me how I was wrong and he was right. Even through his L - he filed so many ridiculous affidavits against me, just so I'd have to respond. Otherwise I was radio silent and he wasn't getting his supply. I kept telling my L that no response was the best way to handle him, but she told me the courts would see me as 'guilty' if I didn't defend myself against his baseless accusations.