Another unnecessary family event H is trying to force me to attend

[mrsstrezy]

We received an invite to my husbands cousin's grad party-which due to COVID situation will be family only.  My NMIL will be there, who I'm trying my darndest to be NC with.  I have also never even spoken to this cousin; we rarely if ever hang out with my husbands family.

I told my husband immediately that I'm not going if NMIL would be there.  I instantly get hit with the "OH COME ON! You haven't seen her in months, there will be lots of people there(not true)." Then I get attitude.  "Fine, I'll go by myself and take the kids."

Last year I was forced to attend my enFIL's SECOND retirement party that my NMIL had planned, and it darned near ruined my summer due to my anxiety about it.  That's when I actually decided to seek therapy for ways to cope with my anxiety about being around her. 

I actually kind of flipped out on my husband and said "I AM NOT going to be forced to attend events where your mom is present anymore!! Sorry but I'm putting my foot down."

I'm kind of proud of myself, but now I'm angry with my husband for even questioning me, and I'm mad at myself that I can't just suck it up and go.  However, I feel like this entire family(my husband included) has taken advantage of my doormat-like persona for far too long.  To make a long story short, my husband is a diagnosed sex addict(not a surprise when you have a narcissistic mother) and lets say there have been multiple "indiscretions" on his part in the past.  We have worked through it, but let's say he's fortunate I haven't left him multiple times at this point for that alone. The crap with NMIL makes me want to divorce him even more.

My GC BIL is also getting married in a few months and I will be attending all those wedding events, which will include NMIL.  I already have anxiety about this as well, but have a decent relationship with my BIL so feel it's important that I attend. 

I'm just so tired of these frequent battles.

[Starboard Song]

She then proceeded to tell me that her family thinks I'm a bad person, that she wishes I never married her son, that I'm mental, I'm not smart, that when she sees my dad "on the other side" she's going to tell him I have "mother issues", that whatever problems I ever have in my marriage it will be my fault, and that I'm the reason our family isn't close anymore.  She told me she wanted nothing to do with me anymore and that she was cutting me off.

I think your H needs to address this directly. We had a similar interaction with my MIL over 4 years ago and me, my wife, and my son have not spoken with her since.

I didn't read all of your back-story, but the two of you ought to be able to agree to a level of IL engagement that you can both support. Please understand that men are often far more willing to compartmentalize, setting aside even brutal misbehavior as a separate thing, and moving on. We sometimes don't understand when the women who keep us alive don't join us in that. So don't expect perfection. But expect understanding and respect.

Good luck to you. I truly hope you can find your way to peace.

[mrsstrezy]

Thank you so much for the input Starboard.  I have definitely been fortunate in how much my husband has supported me in my decision to be NC with NMIL.  Sometimes he still gets a little foggy though, and you're right with the fact that I can't expect perfection.

I guess since I've been hurt so badly by my husband and have forgiven him and given him lots of grace, I expect the same.  Especially with something so minimal as attendance at a grad party of someone I haven't even spoken to.  Who cares if I don't go? Seriously.

[UglyLove666]

mrsstrezy, I have been on a long journey with feeling hurt and forgiving my own DH so I can relate to that dynamic. in my experience, I sometimes expect perfection from my DH because I 'waited' so long to feel supported in going NC. Now I can see how hard it's been for him, and that the conditioning by PD family members is almost hard-wired in the brains of trauma survivors. It's hard for survivors to modify programming that was implemented - in many cases, at a pre-verbal age.

I have tried to go NC with ILs once before (about 2.5 years ago) but my DH was very much in the FOG. This time around I feel more confident, but I do get very triggered with anxiety when I start to think about holiday gatherings, even though they are over four months away! Self-care, nurturing my DH and our marriage with healthy communication is what is helping me have faith that I can weather storms.

I pay especially close attention when I see that Starboard has posted because it's very helpful to have a male perspective.

Be well!

[Starboard Song]

Hey, there.

I've thought a lot about this one, and that male compartmentalization I mentioned.

Here are things my wife and I could agree to:

• We ought never to tolerate condemnation in print. The nasty emails had to stop.
• We ought never to tolerate passive agressive insults. They are to be unpacked and reinterpreted on the spot, and the antagonist asked to clarify if they indeed meant the insult we are interpreting.
• We ought never to (1) make our baby wait longer than reasonable to eat, (2) put up with unfair accusations.

You can do this, right? Make a list of specific behaviors that ought not be tolerated. I myself, and the men I know, react quite well to this type of rule writing. Sometimes such list can be prospective: things we won't do in the future. Other times the only way to think of it is looking back: "we shouldn't have had to." Get whatever such agreement you can first. Then take that down as a North Star: you two are to dedicate yourselves to mutual protection. You will work together to ensure that neither of you is ever again forced to break these rules.

The problem, it seems to me, is that men don't like to race ahead. "But you know she's going to do it, we can't stop her, so we shouldn't go!" The guy says, "Let's see what happens, and I promise to say something if it happens. If we have to, we can leave." Men, like me anyway, tend to figure that they can always make a go of it, and avoid that categorical decision. Again, with the compartmentalizing.

A comedian jokes that two men, once they are friends, may never speak again. And if one's shirt caught on the fire, the other'd be like, "Hey Bob, shirt's on fire." And the other might say thanks. Fire's out. Conversation is over. I just think we do the same thing with these conflicts and injuries. The people who persecute us don't do it every time, they sometimes retreat, and they are experts at the Hoover. We fall for it by treating each incident as a separate thing, not trying too hard to avoid it, and trying very hard to forget it and move on.

So focus on a list of clear and obvious past injuries. Convert them into rules for the future that are about injury. This reminds the man that we are not talking about overcoming adversity, or tackling a problem: we are talking about the woman he loves and maybe his children being mistreated.

Role-play through the solutions he offers. If he is right, if you really could address a potential ugly situation, if you really can and will excuse yourself, then that's great, and you can be the one to bend a little. If role-playing reveals that you two aren't really willing/able to do what it takes to escape an unpleasant situation, then your DH will need to agree about that, and agree that to protect his wife and family (a very manly thing to do) he needs to support your decision to not attend whatever function.

I cannot really purport to be the Common Man. I doubt anyone thinks I sound like him. But I've had enough of these and similar conversations and seen the consistent behaviors enough that I am confident I am on to something.

[all4peace]

Having been married for 2 decades, and being brand-new to boundaries, I'm learning an uncomfortable fact--I can set boundaries, and my DH doesn't have to love it, and then it's my job to let him have his feelings and for me to deal with my own feelings. DH and I have been at this crossroads before. It's tough. I think it's important to work on compromise and mutual support in a marriage AND important to know when we really can't take anymore and need more time and space before seeing the ILs again. Still, it doesn't require your husband to be happy about it. It'd be awesome if he was, but that may not be a reasonable expectation. My best to you!

[Starboard Song]

Still, it doesn't require your husband to be happy about it.

I left out that part. All4peace is exactly right.

[UglyLove666]

Oh, you are DEFINITELY onto something, Starboard! I'm going to print out your post (mention of Common Man) for my DH to read. I appreciate this guidance and the ideas presented on this forum.

And I love what all4peace said about 'husband is not required to be happy about it'. 

Thanks again

[Call Me Cordelia]

"The problem, it seems to me, is that men don't like to race ahead. "But you know she's going to do it, we can't stop her, so we shouldn't go!" The guy says, "Let's see what happens, and I promise to say something if it happens. If we have to, we can leave." Men, like me anyway, tend to figure that they can always make a go of it, and avoid that categorical decision. Again, with the compartmentalizing. "

Yeah that pretty much summarizes past conversations between me and DH as well.

I think I am particularly prone to "racing ahead" as you put it. A corporate strengths finder test I once took calls that trait "strategic." Or "intuitive." And I do think it's gender-skewed in favor of women. Honestly, you remind me a lot of my own DH. I would say, "Well remember x time?" "But that was only one time, it doesn't mean it will be that way this time." Sure enough, it was, but DH has to be certain of the statistical significance of all data.

One exercise that really helped him was writing out the patterns, from the time MIL sweetly took me dress shopping for something to wear to my bridal shower and tried to control what I picked, onwards. Showing a pattern in black and white data points was a language he understood.

[roughdiamonds1]

I have found your post to be super helpful Starboard.

I'm sure there are so many of us females that relate to that habit of looking at the evidence, and looking ahead to the future and predicting what we think will happen, and reacting to that. I guess the problem with PD's is that the past really is the best indicator of future behaviour, and so there's a good reason for us to be wary and create boundaries to protect ourselves from repeat performances. In my case, even one repeat performance, no matter how quickly it is nipped in the bud, becomes many weeks and sometimes months of healing work to get over it. A waste of good time, in my opinion.

I appreciated your perspective, and the way you explained it, and the suggestions you gave to create really clear rules on what's accepted and what is not. It's helped me to see things from my ex-H's perspective a little clearer - sometimes I thought it was gaslighting, but I can see that some of it is some optimistic compartmentalising.

[Starboard Song]

One exercise that really helped him was writing out the patterns, from the time MIL sweetly took me dress shopping for something to wear to my bridal shower and tried to control what I picked, onwards. Showing a pattern in black and white data points was a language he understood.

Great idea.

And, seeing the responses, please don't think I mean to say that women "race ahead" in any bad sense. An intuitive approach may be precisely correct, especially when based on years of data. The point here is not that either approach is always correct. Assuredly, each has flaws. But they are also not incompatible: I think they are more a matter of semantics and communications, and not so much about the choices that result.

I hope only to (1) make y'all's men seem a little less dense, and (2) give you tools to help speak his language and best convey your interests. Because we all deserve the support of the person we most love.

In my next post, I'll explain why we think cabinet drawers should be slightly ajar, make and then forget piles of fingernail clippings, and always leave a single dirty dish in the sink after washing dishes.

[UglyLove666]

Thank you for these intelligent and insightful posts. (Starboard: your humor is always appreciated. We can ALL use a little bit of "lightness" these days...)

I printed out the posts by Starboard (compartmentalization + follow-up ideas with communication) and read them to my DH the other day. He was riveted. The connection was made, and it felt like a gap in communication was truly bridged. I literally felt a shift in energy in the room where we were sitting.

**Perhaps the statement below is more appropriate for the sister site on C-PTSD so I beg forgiveness if this reads as a hijack-type of post**

Someone on this in-law forum mentioned having an Emotional Flashback (EF) in relation to an in-law. Pete Walker, MA has free articles on his website (i'm reading his C-PTSD book). I believe that understanding EFs has provided me with a piece of the puzzle that's been missing. Understanding the 4Fs (fight, flight, freeze, fawn), shrinking the inner critic, and EFs has given me tools that are helpful - - because I KNOW it's just a matter of time before the hoovering starts up and the pressure to "give in" to my husband's family gatherings will be tossed my way.

[tragedy or hope]

Wow!

I don't agree with Starboard at all.   Just sayin...

How about the woman not being the one to pursue solving the issue.  So what if men don't want to think about what "might" happen, or if they are naturally that way.

Women are naturally intuitive when it comes to emotional pain on the way.   It's an event not an interaction for him. For a woman the emotional interaction is the whole event.

The key here is in the post title "another family event H is trying to force me to attend."  That speaks volumes about feelings regarding  H.  This is about power in the situation.

Adults have equal responsibility in a relationship. She can ask him to find a resolve. It's his family. Why isn't he investigating ways to solve the problem to make his wife happy?  The expectation is for her to give up her truth, and go find an answer he can sit back and consider. It also makes her more dependent on him to perform. If he fails, everything is ruined.

N's are bound to say something stupid and hurtful at a family event. It's like an amusement park to them.

I more than likely will just quietly take a walk. I may say what I need to say before I step out, with as few words as possible, but I will say it with self-dignity not emotional fury. (This takes a conscious effort) I come back and stay on my feet, moving as needed when I can sense something is going awry.

I have made it clear that I will do this only if I need to with my spouse. He gets it. Figuring how I will deal with it gives me my power back in the circumstance and frees my H from "taking care of me."  If I expect that... expectations are planned disappointments.

Sometimes families of origin get a grip that's hard to get out of. If he just can't do that thing we agreed to, we are back as square one.

No requirements on him to make a list, collude with me or even think about it. I take care of myself just as I would with anyone else. Being firm but kind on my own is much better than waiting to see if he holds up his side on the matter.

I come home glad we did not have to remember something he agreed to, or act a certain way. No more discussion about any of it. I have taken care of myself.

The family will not change for me. I have to decide what I will do about it. Asking someone else to change is an impossible feat. Think of how hard it is to change your own habits let alone family of origin interactions.

Wish you the best mrsstrezy. Hope it turns out the way you hoped it would.

[Starboard Song]

I printed out the posts by Starboard (compartmentalization + follow-up ideas with communication) and read them to my DH the other day. He was riveted. The connection was made, and it felt like a gap in communication was truly bridged. I literally felt a shift in energy in the room where we were sitting.

I am so very pleased!

[Leonor]

Hello mrsstrezzy,

I'm so pleased to read that you were able to communicate with your dh in a way that created a positive shift in your relationship! These are such difficult topics and it takes real compassion and maturity to navigate them. Congratulations!

I also loved tragedy or hope's contribution. It is so true that women don't do "events" like men do .. the event, any event, for us, is emotional interaction. And emotional events for women are, by and large, conversations. It doesn't matter if we are in a backyard with cake and balloons or in the cereal aisle at the grocery store ... The interaction is an event.

This means we are especially attuned to upcoming events (conversations). They are already emotionally charged for us. Conversations that are positive make us feel connected, safe and energized. Conversations that are negative deplete and depress us. Oh and we do not just exchange data in our conversations. We are aware of body language, emotional energy, breathing patterns (probably because we have to be able to understand the needs of nonverbal infants for the sake of the survival of humanity). So when our dh understands and reflects back to us what we say, we feel happy and loved. When he doesn't get it, we panic.

Narcissists also operate on this wavelength, because they are always searching for ways to manipulate their supply. If Son responds to tasks, then some home appliance will break on Dad. That's how Dad gets his supply. If Mom's upset while Son's there, it's not a big issue for him: he's there to fix the plumbing. It's like the graduation party: he's there to show up, give the hard cover copy of "Oh The Places You'll Go", and check the event off his to-do list. If Mom makes a big sigh while slicing the cake, it's not on his radar.

Daughter, however, isn't paying attention to the balloons and gift-wrap. She knows she's walking into the OK Corral, and MIL is already waiting on the other side of the street, twitching with anticipation. That sigh over the cake is a lob shot over dh's head right towards DIL, and any response from DIL, verbal or not, is victory for the narc mother.

So ToH is totally right: this is a power struggle between you and mil. You can take back your power by refusing to enter the OK Corral. You can avoid. You can grey rock. You can step out. And you can don't not go, because you are a grown-up and get to decide what you do with your own time.

Just imagine you squinting down the dusty road with the tumbleweed and the whistling. There's a new sheriff in town ... And her name is MrsStrezzy!

[Starboard Song]

The expectation is for her to give up her truth, and go find an answer he can sit back and consider.

That was not my expectation or suggestion. My recommendation would have been the same to a man.

I never commit myself so thoroughly to my own truth that I disregard the truth as seen by my lovely wife. When our truths are not same, I trust that as a couple we will learn and grow best by exploring the gap and attempting to close it.

I am not married to my wife because of an accident: I trust and respect her more than anyone else on this earth. If she disagrees with me about our relationship with family, the consequences of our decisions could last for decades, and I owe her and myself the very best conversation I can provide. That conversation should explain my view and solicit hers. It should help her see the world as I do, and I should do my level best to see it through her eyes.

We are all injured here. We tend to lash out defensively. We are on a hair trigger, sometimes, because of the injuries we've endured. We none of us get happier, though, when we fail to invest ourselves in our spouses as equals.

[tragedy or hope]

Wise people have taught me that there is more than one answer to any problem. In fact, when I learned this I found life full of options. This is an important part of this very site; multitudes of ways to see situations, many ways to resolve issues.

What I love is that we all can speak our minds. There is no one better, more wise, more together... except maybe in our own eyes. Otherwise we would not be on this site together.

We all have something important to contribute. I direct my comments to the question in the topic the way I see it expressed and what I see is true for me.
If my comments trigger something personally challenging, please refrain from explaining yourself to me. That is condescending.  Just stop. I know what you were trying to say very clearly.

I will continue to speak my truth.

As queen Gertrude replied in Shakespeare's Hamlet:

"Me thinketh thou dost protest too much." 

Let it go.

[UglyLove666]

Hi, mrsstrezzy - so what ended up happening? I was just scrolling through posts on the in-law forum and realized that you initiated this thread early June. Did your husband go to his cousin's grad party, and is everything smoothing out?

I also noticed that you mentioned your BIL's wedding coming up, and your anxiety about attending the wedding events. 

I hope you are well.