Ds13 has started at a new school for his secondary years.
Parent Teacher interviews are happening tomorrow. They are 5 minute meetings with each subject teacher.
Seriously, what's to be achieved in 5 minutes?
The students are supposed to attend.
UNPD exH has gone interstate for work so won't be attending any PT interviews.
I've booked mine on the online school site.
I'm assuming the uNPD smum will attend with ds.
Yes. It should be me and ds since uNPD exH won't be there. But the interviews are happening on his time with ds.
And no one will stop the uNPD smum from attending and putting on a show, even if the interviews were happening on my time with ds.
I don't know if she can see from the school's online site what time I've booked my meetings for. I don't know if she'll try to come at the same time.
If she comes, I have no intention of hanging around.
I will have driven for an hour to get there. I'm quite prepared to turn immediately back around and drive straight back home again without attending any of the meetings.
But can anyone give me suggestions as to what I can say to the teachers if I end up doing that? Or even to her, for that matter?
I'd love to say that I'm not safe around the uNPD smum but no one at the school has met me yet and I'd just come across as the unstable one if I said that.
AOD
Oh AOD, this really stinks. I realize your PT conference was probably today. I am hoping you got through it without drama or overwhelming anxiety.
Part of me would want to do as you said... simply retreat. I have an overdeveloped ability to grey-rock these sorts of situations, when my ptsd is high. It can be hard to know when to do this and when to be assertive.
It doesn't matter that it falls on his time. You are the other parent. Period.
My more assertive side would maybe have suggested that you contact the school in advance to introduce yourself, tell them that YOU would be attending the PT interview, ask for a schedule, etc. I would also ask for the emails of DS teachers and send each one a warm intro email. I would not get into a pissing contest with uNPD smum, but don't give away your right to be there for your DS.
What does DS want? I would bet that he would want you there :)
I can sympathize with your reluctance. I shied away from so many things out of fear. But you are his mom, hold your head high and keep focus on DS.
If this opportunity has past, there will be another one down the road, have a plan for that.
Sending hugs and support ..... :bighug:
Thanks, Free2Bme.
The conferences are not for another 12 hours or so.
Ds says he wants to go with his uNPD smum and not me.
I do have the various teachers' email addresses but haven't yet contacted them. There hasn't really been a reason to do so as he's only been at the school for a month.
Thanks for your support.
AOD
I think you should go to the PT interviews, even if it's by yourself and let DS go with uNPDsm either with you or by themselves. You are his mom, you have parenting rights, and SM doesn't regardless of who the child shows up with. (I'm assuming that is the case in your situation) If it were me I would go and be the one that acts like an adult no matter what might happen. Being there, and being calm and confident goes a long ways. Not only with the school, but with DS. It sends him the message that you're always there for him. You never know, SM may not be around in 5 years but you will be.
My experience with schools is that people see through the PDs fairly quickly even if they don't show it. If you don't go the teachers won't be able to see that you're the level headed one. I can tell you that in my situation, less than a year out from divorce, it is clear that our therapists and teachers look at us and see that I'm the one they actually want to deal with. This is based on what they've told me directly, what I've heard from other parents, what they're saying if I read between the lines, and my observations of their body language whenever my exPDw is talking. PDs can only fool some of the people some of the time.
Good luck in your decision.
As you are his actual parent, I'd simply state that you would like to have your meeting with the teachers alone without anyone else present. They should not deny that.
Quote from: Associate of Daniel on March 04, 2020, 07:46:07 AM
Thanks, Free2Bme.
The conferences are not for another 12 hours or so.
Ds says he wants to go with his uNPD smum and not me.
I do have the various teachers' email addresses but haven't yet contacted them. There hasn't really been a reason to do so as he's only been at the school for a month.
Thanks for your support.
AOD
Is there any way you can talk to your son about how his comments make you feel? Choosing SM over you while he now lives with them is pretty crappy.
Quote from: mamato3 on March 04, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Is there any way you can talk to your son about how his comments make you feel? Choosing SM over you while he now lives with them is pretty crappy.
I don't know that I agree with this, it sounds like putting DS in the middle of it. Who knows how he is being manipulated by uNPDsm behind closed doors. I personally feel it's best to hold your head high and don't bring up the PD's behavior (unless they ask about it) or that you're hurt by things. I think kids are way smarter than we give them credit for, he may very well know something doesn't feel right but it's easier for him to go along with the PD's for the time being. If it were me I would approach it as a matter of fact that you are his parent and should attend, if he chooses to go with SM that is his choice.
Quote from: pushit on March 04, 2020, 10:20:31 AM
Quote from: mamato3 on March 04, 2020, 09:37:02 AM
Is there any way you can talk to your son about how his comments make you feel? Choosing SM over you while he now lives with them is pretty crappy.
I don't know that I agree with this, it sounds like putting DS in the middle of it. Who knows how he is being manipulated by uNPDsm behind closed doors. I personally feel it's best to hold your head high and don't bring up the PD's behavior (unless they ask about it) or that you're hurt by things. I think kids are way smarter than we give them credit for, he may very well know something doesn't feel right but it's easier for him to go along with the PD's for the time being. If it were me I would approach it as a matter of fact that you are his parent and should attend, if he chooses to go with SM that is his choice.
I understand that line of thinking, but I also think it's ok for children to see that we are people and have feelings. I'm very close to my kiddos as a result, and it's ok for kids to learn empathy for their parents too. I wouldn't say that to a parent of a young child, but a teenager? Definitely.
I'd book my appointment and go without making a big deal of it.
My motives would be meeting my child's teachers, listening to their thoughts about ds, his work and his work habits. Ask what kind of supports they feel would be helpful, if any. A math tutor? Maybe ds really needs a different teacher? Some teachers have a style not suited to every child's learning style.
Whatever's going on, you're the mom and you should be able to attend pt meetings if you want to, IME.
Also, you can nip any crazy talk from the PDsm in the bud by showing up, being normal, involved and invested in your ds' best interests to combat any tales she's telling about you.
Keep breathing.
Quote from: mamato3 on March 04, 2020, 11:03:00 AM
I understand that line of thinking, but I also think it's ok for children to see that we are people and have feelings. I'm very close to my kiddos as a result, and it's ok for kids to learn empathy for their parents too. I wouldn't say that to a parent of a young child, but a teenager? Definitely.
Agreed. My thought was just that I wouldn't say it in a way that would make the kid feel guilty for not wanting to go with me, and making it a tug of war. My exPDw likes to play the guilt game with the kids, so I saw the comment through that lens and I wouldn't play the game back.
5 mins each isn't much but you could discuss ds' change in circumstances, new school, new living arrangements, his need for support during transition and make it clear you are his parent and your email if there are any concerns.
Absolutely do not give up your parenting rights. If she's there smile sweetly and ask for private meeting with the teacher. If she pushes her way in, object. Won't take long for the school to figure out crazy
You need to let the school and teachers know you are very much the parent, and if they say things like "oh I thought sm was his parent"just smile and say "I understand she likes to give that impression" and move on
I have experienced similar situations with my kids making choices to be with PD dad. It hurt like hell and I had a very difficult time with it, I had to constantly tell myself that my child did not feel free to choose within his own mind. The largest voice in his head was the PD's and so he took the path of least resistance, I get that.
Sometimes kids do this when they know that you are the reliable, stable, non-manipulative parent. Try not to take it personally. Your son is watching and will sort out who the safe adults are, be patient and take heart.
HI AoD,
I hope things went well!! You certainly had a right to be there, and like the others said, it is good for the teacher to see you face to face. It always helps when there is a possibility of bad mouthing that they have a visual/real experience with you to counteract what is being said.
As far as DS chosing to go with SMum. We have dealt with this for a long time, and it so very, very hurtful. We see my stepkids EOW and even on our very limited time they have to run over to sit with BM. DSS told us at one point that there are severe repercussions if they don't do it. I believe that for him to even say that out loud had to be extremely scary. We don't pressure the kids to choose, and we don't question them when they always run to BM. They have to survive in a situation that DH/I can never fully imagine. That being said, we don't tolerate them being unkind about it. Watching DSD when she was young, waiting for BM to show up to activities....one time she literally had her jacket balled up in her lap and she was rocking herself she was so nervous, eyes locked on the door. The kids will always come talk to us before we leave an event, and sometimes we'll get them for a portion of the event. We just let them know we appreciate their company, and when they feel they need to run back over to BM...we let them go. I know BM looks at this as "they always sit with me, I am the better parent", and it makes me furious that she gets away with treating her children the way she does and then twisting into her being "good", but....it is what it is. The one thing we want is for the kids to always feel comfortable coming to us.....that we aren't going to make things worse for them.
Thanks, everyone.
I'll write more later but just letting you know it went.... okaaay. Sort of. Lots of destressing time was required afterwards.
The most important thing is that all of the teachers are happy with ds's progress and can see his maturity and potential.
AOD
Sorry things didn't go smoothly for you, AOD.
I invite you to check out this link.....
https://socialwork.buffalo.edu/content/dam/socialwork/home/self-care-kit/exercises/assertiveness-and-nonassertiveness.pdf
It's super helpful when I have to figure out a way to deal with distressing people I can't avoid.
I'm glad ds is on track at school!
Thanks, hhaw. They look to be helpful links.
I had 6 interviews in all. Timing those is stressful enough.
I had 4 before I saw ds and his uNPD smum.
Their 1st interview was at the same time as my 5th, so they wouldn't have heard me say anything to the teacher.
But I discovered that they were standing behind me during my last interview.
It was an open plan set up so it was difficult not to hear other people's conversations while we waited for our turn.
I expect an email from the uNPD smum telling me off for whatever she heard me say.
At one point I went up to ds and said, "Hi, (term of endearment)."
Before he could take a breathe to respond the uNPD smum jumped in with, "(my non preferred name), ds doesn't like to be called (term of endearment). He wants to be called (shortened version of his name.)"
I bolted, saying to ds, "see you, (another endearment).
I so wanted to tell her, "seriously? That old chestnut? You're clutching at straws. Find another button to push. That's one's broken."
But I didn't. Sigh.
When I finished I said goodbye to ds. He didn't want to acknowledge me. He seemed really down.
He's trapped with her this week as uNPD exH is away for work.
I texted him later but got no response.
Gotta go but there's more to say.
AOD
Quote from: Associate of Daniel on March 05, 2020, 08:25:23 PM
Thanks, hhaw. They look to be helpful links.
I had 6 interviews in all. Timing those is stressful enough.
I had 4 before I saw ds and his uNPD smum.
Their 1st interview was at the same time as my 5th, so they wouldn't have heard me say anything to the teacher.
But I discovered that they were standing behind me during my last interview.
It was an open plan set up so it was difficult not to hear other people's conversations while we waited for our turn.
I expect an email from the uNPD smum telling me off for whatever she heard me say.
At one point I went up to ds and said, "Hi, (term of endearment)."
Before he could take a breathe to respond the uNPD smum jumped in with, "(my non preferred name), ds doesn't like to be called (term of endearment). He wants to be called (shortened version of his name.)"
I bolted, saying to ds, "see you, (another endearment).
I so wanted to tell her, "seriously? That old chestnut? You're clutching at straws. Find another button to push. That's one's broken."
But I didn't. Sigh.
When I finished I said goodbye to ds. He didn't want to acknowledge me. He seemed really down.
He's trapped with her this week as uNPD exH is away for work.
I texted him later but got no response.
Gotta go but there's more to say.
AOD
Why doesn't he go home to you when his father is away?!
He goes to school directly across the road from his uNPD dad's apartment and we live an hour's drive away from each other.
And why come home when the all perfect uNPD smum is there to do the honours of being dad?
AOD
Hang in there. Do we see some cracks appearing already? Give him time. I can't imagine living there is as good as he thought it would be.
I don't think he's noticing anything yet really.
He's always behaved differently towards me when we're with the pds. I take it to be that he feels he has to portray to them that he has a bad relationship with me. That he agrees with them about all the lies they're feeding him about me.
But he's back to his usual beautiful self tonight, thankfully. He's such a wonderful young teenager.
Yesterday's interviews were yet another occasion where I constantly strategise to avoid the pds.
You know, find poles or bookshelves to hide behind, sit as far away from them as possible, try not to talk too loud to others in case the pds hear you, seat yourself or stand at certain angles so that you know where they are but they can't see you.
It's sad. Pathetic, when looked at by outsiders. But an unfortunate necessity in my case. Am I the only one who does these things?
Anyway, a couple of the teachers yesterday expressed surprise and confusion when I told them ds would be attending the interviews with his uNPD smum.
And what annoyed me was that I had forgotten that anyone would be surprised. I'm so used to her attending his medical appointments, with or without me, that it's become the norm.
It's so wrong.
I don't think I'll go to any more of the official PT interviews, unless by some miracle ds says he wants to go with me and not her.
I'll just stay in touch with the teachers by email/phone etc..
Besides, I can't afford to lose a day's pay each time the interviews take place.
AOD
AoD,
You continue to amaze me with how strong you are dealing with this very difficult situation.
Since you son is a teenager, what do you think about some light conversations with him about what is going on? Like the issue with his name, I know you've addressed this with him, but it is always nice to check back in, "sMum mentioned again that you don't like the name I call you, last time we chatted you were ok with it, just want to make sure that is still the case", "any idea why sMum feels you don't like it?". I also wonder if you can tactfully say something about the fact that you WANT to be doing all these things for him, but sMum has basically shoved you aside where she can, like "I hope you know that I do enjoy doing these activities with you, but I am trying to be sensitive to everyone's feelings and make things as easy as I can for you. If there is ever a time you want me to step in, I will do it, but I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable position if it isn't important to you".
"You know, find poles or bookshelves to hide behind, sit as far away from them as possible, try not to talk too loud to others in case the pds hear you, seat yourself or stand at certain angles so that you know where they are but they can't see you."
YES- we know this feeling well! UGH! DSS has been playing a sport at the same facility for a couple years now, DH and I literally have a path we walk that we know gives us the lowest chance of coming face to face with BM/BF. I refuse to use the bathroom, as she has followed me in before, and we are very careful not to park our car near theirs. DH and I don't leave the other alone so we aren't left vulnerable to BM. What makes me crazy, she accuses DH of having abused HER (and professionals believe her!), yet we are the one with the PTSD behaviors from her documented emotional torture of us.
AOD - I'm glad to hear that your son is doing well at school. that's the most important thing. And, it sounds like you handled the interviews swimmingly - well done! Those were difficult circumstances for anyone. Can you follow up with your son and let him know that you're proud of him? The name thing was kinda weird though. Your son is old enough to tell you whether it's still ok to call him a term of endearment or not (both my kids did at 3 and 6). Or, could you ask him how he feels? He's growing up, so is it ok to keep calling him pet names in public, or between the two of you? That shows you want something special between the two of you, but you realize he's growing up and you want to support him.
The PD and his wife are all about jerking your chain and exerting power over you.
Ignore them. Focus on you, your son and strengthening that connection.
Have FUN being the calm, consistent parent while the PDs chop wood and carry water with school and activities.
Maybe playing the fun weekend mom will end up feeling really nice IF you can get out of the PD's reach.... poking at you all the time... trying to control how you feel.... what you do and say around ds. That's got to end... even if it's YOU getting your nose off that pebble to see the entire field around you. Gain some emotional distance around it.
These are the last years before ds hits hs and grows into a man. Dream of everything you want to DO with him at this age NOW.
What will you do with the time you have with ds?
I love what HHAW said- it really is an important shift in focus.
We had to do this, and it takes effort to maintain the focus. I know we are what BM/BF would call "Disney parents", but that's all she left us with. We WANT to do the day to day school, activities, decision making; but BM forced that away from DH. So, we are left with EOW, holidays and a chunk during the summer. We make the most of it. We actually are pretty open about this with the kids too, "We don't have as much time with you as we'd like, so the time we do have, we want to make as many memories as possible". We are happy to step in wherever needed for the kids, but BM has blocked it all.....so we let go of what we can't control and we have taken hold of what we can control.
We have honestly let go of a lot of things, and it really does help our sanity. We support the kids where we can, but we aren't on the constant path of freaking out about every misstep from BM. She makes a lot, but she always has and the courts still saw fit to give her full custody. Things like BM not getting DSS to school on time, and then refusing to sign him in at the front desk which causes him to get detention all the time. It sucks for DSS, and when we take him to school...we are 100% on time. BM will even dump him out dangerously in the middle of the car pool line so she can leave quicker. DSS is in middle school, he has amazing coping skills, and sadly....there isn't much we can do about BM's behavior. SO...we create the soft landing place for the kids. We are the island in the middle of the storm.
AOD:
I have to apologize for telling you what to do. I had a lot of people telling me I had to get over it, get past it, get on with my life and it all meant nothing, bc I didn't know how to do it.
I wanted to. I tried to. The more I thought about it the harder it got.
The truth is I had to find someone to teach me..... Help me learn and instruct me how to gain control of my biology, which was completely hijacked and saturated by years of fear and dealing with pd crazy aimed at me and my kids. That part is the normal part.... SEEING that for so long to the exclusion of much else. Figuring out how to get our nose OFF THAT PEBBLE is something we learn to do. We can't just DO IT, IME. Esp when the upset is ongoin in our lives... particularly if it involves our children, IME.
A good Trauma informed T, maybe one using EMDR, can help you figure that piece out and things get easier from there, IME,
I so wish the very best for you and your ds, AOD.
No offence taken, Hhaw and your input is very much valued, as is everyone else's. Thanks, everyone!
I just want to generally respond to everyone that I am not letting the pt interview situation consume me. Or any of the ongoing dramas, in fact.
I do have my days but generally I'm at a place of radical acceptance about the whole family dynamic. Other people are more incensed about my lot than I am.
Your concern for me is much appreciated but I'm ok.
Your responses to this thread have given me food for thought regarding how I deal with the school and teachers though. So many thanks.
AOD
In reference to what HHAW said, I agree. I have found that sometimes doing things in baby steps helps you get to the goal you are wanting to achieve.
A big part for me/DH is not talking about BM with each other. Don't talk about her, don't think about her. The less you talk/think about her, the more time you have to think about good things. It's really hard to get out of the habit of doing it, it's been a survival tactic for so long. My first step was not talking about her when I met up with friends, I would tell them, "we didn't invite her to sit at the table with us". This forces you to talk about everything else, focus on everything else that is not her/them. After awhile, the anxiety does start to come down a bit....it takes a long time. I have found I don't physically shake with anxiety around BM anymore. It was something that one day, I realized and said to DH, "I don't feel as scared here as I used to"...and he said, "me too". Now...to be fair...she has stopped screaming in our faces when we see her...and we have NC....but....it all started with baby steps.