Out of the FOG

WOW, just watched this video by Dr Ramani - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHPvkgpr-uw

This explains my situation so much as it doesn't feel like a hover but a desperate attempt to get me back. My uNPDSTBXw has been trying to future fake and make promises over the last months, it all stinks of desperation and I cannot take any of it serious. She has suddenly done a few things that I have asked/begged her to do for years and years. Now she suddenly done them, after the divorce petition went in. But the sad thing is, the things I asked from her was for her to get better, not really for me other than me thinking if she got better I got better. She hasn't offered, or even seen, what would actually be what I want. No apology or even admitting the abuse she put me through existed. But even if she did , it's to late for me now, the damage she has done is so severe I could not get back with her. I felt I needed to start a new topic for this as it is such an important one and the video is one of the best I ever seen.

I follow Dr Ramani as well. I find her videos very informative. I follow several other people who talk about narcissistic abuse as well on YouTube and Instagram.

If we are in a crisis and are experiencing trauma it may take time and repeated viewing several times over to fully comprehend what we need to do to take care of ourselves. Trauma can impact your memory and cognitive functioning.

Slowly I understood and realised what my uBPD/NPD sister was doing and why I reacted as I did to her extreme abusive behaviour.

We need to educate ourselves about personality disorders and be willing to learn and do things differently.

Little by little things can and will change for you.

Be gentle with yourself. You are doing the best that you can.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

I watched this yesterday and wow! Exactly what's going on in my situation.
Stbxh not only promised the things I'd been begging for over the years. He's done many of them.
The thought that he's trying to find my "price," the point at which I'll return is chilling.
Thank you so much for sharing this.

Pure manipulation is chilling ime.

What makes me so angry about this is that is shows it is deliberate and that she can control herself when she wants to. It really makes my sick and I struggle to even look at her.

QuoteWhat makes me so angry about this is that is shows it is deliberate and that she can control herself when she wants to.

Pretty much limits all the "but but but...!" arguments, doesn't it. But that time this, but you said that, but why didn't you the other, etc. It's ALL about choices, and weve all made poor ones at one point or another. Yes, she may make some changes - or not. Time and consistency are what really answer that question, whether this is all to suck you back in or honest efforts to turn things around.

This is why I changed from thinking my uBPD/NPD has a serious mental health issue to redefining her as my abuser. That helped me to understand better what was going on.

My sister could be in a full emotional meltdown and get a call from a friend, take the call and behave like a different person whilst chatting with them. I couldn't believe it.

Quote from: guitarman on March 27, 2022, 12:33:15 AM
This is why I changed from thinking my uBPD/NPD has a serious mental health issue to redefining her as my abuser. That helped me to understand better what was going on.

My sister could be in a full emotional meltdown and get a call from a friend, take the call and behave like a different person whilst chatting with them. I couldn't believe it.

This!!!  100%

They can control it when they want to.

I have seen the PDs that were in my life switch from full on rage to being pleasant if someone appears or phones them who they want to impress. 

My late PD mother contained her vicious violence until us kids were indoors away from anyone seeing.

So yeah, they CAN control it.  It is ABUSE!

Guitarman, the change in my viewpoint that you mention helped me very much too.  Empowering. 

I also like the work of Dr Ramani very much. 

Quote from: guitarman on March 27, 2022, 12:33:15 AM
My sister could be in a full emotional meltdown and get a call from a friend, take the call and behave like a different person whilst chatting with them. I couldn't believe it.

That's exactly how STBX behaved, last summer when going away for a few days she was raging when packing the car and suddenly a neighbour turned up and she was nice and chatty and as soon as the neighbour left she went back to raging.

She is also able to hold 3 different appearances at once when at home. She could be happy chatty to one girl, rage against the other and silent treat me.

One Christmas another sibling invited their friend to be with our family for Christmas. They did it as they knew that our uBPD/NPD sister would behave herself in front of this stranger. She was flirting with him and trying to impress him.

Without the stranger being there she may have had a meltdown as she has no regard for our family's feelings.

I don't really know who she actually is.

Is she the real person raging at the family or the person who is calm and love bombing strangers?

After my sister had a suicidal crisis and was raging, when the police and ambulance services arrived after I had called them she behaved so differently to them and was so calm.

Actors need audiences. They can't survive without them.

I have learnt not to feed the narcissistic supply.

My sister's behaviours all begin with the letter S

Sobbing
Screaming
Shouting
Swearing
Seeking money
Suicidal

I have learnt to stay calm and not get on her emotional rollercoaster with her.

Observe don't absorb.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

So much wonderful discussion in here, thanks everyone.

My PD parents are long gone and I was NC a lot of the time with them, but reading above I suddenly remembered that when I did see them it was always in a public place. So coffee shop or restaurant.  I didn't have much awareness of PD issues all those decades ago but through my own observation I had realised they behaved better in public.

My PD sister was the same, I instinctively only ever met her in a coffee shop, never behind closed doors or screaming fit likely to happen.

Funny we seem to know how to protect ourselves on a gut instinct.

I didn't know anything about PD until I saw a psychiatrist as I was having difficulties coping with my uBPD/NPD sister. Her behaviour was impacting my mental health.

He mentioned BPD then all her behaviours fitted into place once I had educated myself about it.

Now she is just someone that I used to know. I never want to see her ever again. She won't ever change.

There was moment when I was beginning to understand FOG and that my xOCPDh was PD.  It happened so quickly in the past I would have dismissed it. 

My daughter and her husband came to visit and entered the house.  We were all happy to see them since they live so far away.  My husband up to that point had been playing on his phone and as soon as she walked in his face lit up and he hugged her and my SIL and the kids came charging in all hugging and happy smiles.  I stood back because I had been in the kitchen and was drying my hands so I waited my turn.  My ex turned and saw me and his face in an instant - less than a second went from joyous and happy to closed, shuttered and cold.  LIke a switch flipped off.  His glare at me was so extreme and unprovoked that I actually stumbled and I could just feel my chest turn hard and my throat began to close.  I had tears in my eyes which fortunately my kids attributed to joy.

I knew then that it was act.  All an act.

I hope you being kind to yourself EM.  Then end is close and by this time next year you will be posting stories of recovery and joy.

Yesterday was mothers day here in the UK, absolute nightmare. She was in a bad mood from the start to finish. First complained to the kids that they hadn't cleared up the kitchen properly for her to be able to enjoy her breakfast. Then setting them up when asking about lunch, but not telling them what her plan was. Ended up with GC and STBX raging at SG and me, no chance of trying to calm GC down as completely backed by STBX in allowing her to treat me and SG like that (yes I am worried STBX is creating another PD). Ended up me and SG went out and had lunch in the car. Came back and uNPDmil was in the house, invited for lunch without having told anyone about it. They are having their little gang of 3 generations talking and having STBX playing a victim, uNPDmil not even saying hello to SG and completely blanks her. SG ends up leaving the house to see a friend instead. Later when uNPDmil has left STBX was crying about how her mothers day was ruined. I really have had enough of this shit show. I can't even talk to GC without her screaming at me and then being backed by STBX. I am feeling such an intense anger towards STBX right now, last night I was shaking stopping myself from going and physically removing STBX from the house.

My take on it is that STBX thought she could treat me and the girls in whatever way she wants, but then when her mum came round we all should play happy family to show her mum how happy we all are. But that fell through straight away when me and SG came back, and I told uNPDmil that it wasn't because of her we were not participating in the lunch but the way STBX and GC had been treating us. STBX quickly tried to defend herself, but that fell flat as GC (not knowing the PD rules) started swearing at me and SG in front of uNPDmil. STBX started to cry and pretended her being the victim and blamed GC for it all.

I am so worn out. So tired. Not sure I can manage many more days.

Do you have any idea of a timetable, if you don't mind me asking ?
Could you actually set up an actual timetable, to tick off, on your mobile, for example ? Recalibrate if delays occur for whatever reason.

No I only have a rough estimate of 2 months, that easy could be 3. Funnily enough I have planned quite a few short trips away for the coming months, just watched dr Ramani talking about exactly this as Respite care. I have been doing this for a long time and wondered if I am selfish for doing so, but with dr Ramani even giving it a name I feel better about doing so. But I do need more and more of these trips, as it only takes days of being home before I am desperate to leave again. But it is hard to leave the girls behind when doing so, but without them I would literally go under.

Quote from: escapingman on March 28, 2022, 06:52:00 AM
No I only have a rough estimate of 2 months, that easy could be 3. Funnily enough I have planned quite a few short trips away for the coming months, just watched dr Ramani talking about exactly this as Respite care. I have been doing this for a long time and wondered if I am selfish for doing so, but with dr Ramani even giving it a name I feel better about doing so. But I do need more and more of these trips, as it only takes days of being home before I am desperate to leave again. But it is hard to leave the girls behind when doing so, but without them I would literally go under.

I have read up a bit more on this and in theory if STBX is playing games with the financial settlement this could take much longer and go to the courts and back and forth. I might have missed this in my various discussions and the timeline vaguely outlined by my solicitor is more the best case scenario. I think I might have another conversation of the options of possible getting a court order to remove STBX, or if there is a way to make an agreement with her solicitor that I can move out without forfeiting any rights. I really can't see me staying in the same house for very much longer, I can't see how the kids can do it either with both being manipulated in different ways. I obviously still have the contact with social that I could call upon, but that is scary and with STBX being a master manipulator and both girls scared of her I am worried a story against me could be created.

I will try to cope for a bit longer and see how things go, STBX is very close to a complete meltdown so she might decide to just go, wishful thinking but a reality. I have kind of left everything to her now, which she is starting to struggle with. She did forbid me from using the washing machines, now she complains she is the only one doing laundry. She complained about me doing food shopping as that upset her meal plans, now she complains she is the only one shopping. She moaned at me telling me I am a crap cook and cant make food so now I let her do all the cooking for the kids, now she complains she is the only one cooking. I was told to not do cleaning in the house as I am not good at it and she always have to redo it afterwards, so I am not doing any cleaning which she now moans about. I could probably continue this but I am sure you get the picture. I have no problem with cleaning, cooking, shopping so on, but I have an issue doing after being told to not do it.

Be very aware about NOT being provoked into anger which may lead into violence. It can happen. I've witnessed it myself. Thankfully I have never become violent but have come close several times. It really scared me how I might react. I locked myself in the bathroom to get away from all the chaos and drama to calm down.

Become aware of how your body is reacting. All the adrenaline released automatically causes our body to go into fight, flight, freeze, fawn or faint mode.

Become aware of your breathing.

Talk calmly, slowly and quietly to others. It helps to calm them down. If we talk angrily, quickly and loudly they will be angry as well.

I learnt this from a psychologist I did a Mindfulness course with and it's something I remember to do.

Our behaviour can influence how others react and behave themselves.

I know it's not easy to stay calm when others are being aggressive and angry. They want you to join in. Don't feed their narcissistic supply.

Buddha said "Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned".

Let go of anger.

I am aware about how I can get provoked into anger. I choose to remain calm. I have a choice.


Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

It sounds like your wife is trying to cope with everything but she isn't able to do any of it.

You can see what is happening but she can't. She can't admit that she can't cope.

If she is raging she must be exhausted both physically and mentally.

During a crisis I was able to contact my local carers centre and talk to the mental health carers support worker there during the day. They were able to support me whenever I needed them during a crisis. I would need to call them several times during the day.

Please call your local carers centre. They will be able to support you.

You can find your local carers centre in the UK here

https://carers.org/


Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

Guitarman, when I was back in the FOG I would rage back. I didn't know better and thought I would have to make her see she was wrong. How much wasted effort was that. Yesterday she had completely forgot her raging over the weekend and when I wasn't happy and chatty when she suddenly flipped into a good mood I was yet again at fault for ruining her day. She has this habit of constantly walking around the house singing, and she is a terrible singer, and it drives both me and SG insane. There is no polite way to ask her to stop as she think it's her divine right to sing in her own house, it doesn't matter if any of us are concentrating on something, me being in a work meeting, or anything else, she just sing on the top of her voice. I am wondering if she is doing it to wind us up, or if she is so unaware she think she is allowed to do it with no care about us. But hey, if I or SG sing, F* Me hell is coming.....

Should I laugh or cry?

Spoke to the kids about going to see their grandparents on my side this summer, they haven't seen each other since before covid. Kids really excited and wanted to do so. STBX get's a sniff of it and says she want to come. I told her no she can't come and that I will go with the kids on my own. Then she comes and says she wants to come again, I tell her no. She says she really want to come and I tell her no that's a bad idea. She then comes back again and tell me she wants to come, I again tell her no. She asks me to reconsider and I said no and I don't want her to come and she ask me again, and again until I say I think about it (absolute only way to get her out of my room) and she happy says thanks (and probably start packing her suitcase in her mind.

It really can't be possible to be so detached from reality. By the time we planned to go the divorce should hopefully be more or less completed.

"Why wouldn't he want to go on a trip with his ex wife? Well, I'll just badger him until he realizes how much he'll want me there."

Just nip that conversation in the bud and carry on. There's no need to go over and over it. We don't have to respond to every argument with which we're invited, whatever others may think.

Oh boy, sounds like she's fragmenting reality. I'm going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess...

I think she's got an image in her mind that the divorce will go through, be final... and nothing will be different. My uBPDm attempted it with my dad when they got divorced. She kept trying to insist he could come back and live in the house with her again and it'd all be just fine like old times. What she didn't get was that "old times" were the problem that caused the divorce in the first place. She said a lot of crazy $#!& back then that I've mostly blocked out because PTSD happened, but I do remember her confusion that he left, that he wanted to leave, and much wailing of not understanding why.

So heads up, EM, it's entirely possible your stbx hasn't figured out what step number 1 post divorce actually looks like. It hasn't clicked in her head yet and may not until it actually happens. It ain't pretty, but hang in there.

I don't know what your lawyers are suggesting, but consider what moglow said.  You don't have to respond to her questions.  Next time, give her a death look and ask her to leave your office.  If she persists, don't look up or acknowledge her.  If she continues, then ask "Perhaps we should talk about who stays in the house; do we both leave and sell it or when do you plan on leaving?"  A cold wash of reality may be needed.

But EM, this must be wrecking you inside.  I hope you are taking good care of yourself through this.

Use the broken record technique. Calmly and unemotionally repeat the same phrase over and over. Don't deviate.

She is trying to break you down so you will relent and give in. 

"No" is a complete sentence.

You don't have to JADE which is justify, argue, defend or explain your answer.

It sounds like fear of abandonment but your wife is the cause of it.

You've done so well not to crack and break your firm boundaries.

It gets easier the more you do it.

Well done!!!

EM, I agree with others.  In the face of magical thinking, like that you're going to welcome her on a trip to see your family, after first stating your firm "no." I suggest ignoring it. For a long time, I couldn't ignore things, because I felt like I was being rude or using the ST.  Once I owned the fact that not everything deserves my response, things got a lot easier for me.

I can tell you that without a doubt, living in the same house as a Pd, while trying to divorce him, was the hardest thing I've ever done. You are doing a great job with your boundaries, and showing great fortitude and resilience.  Hang in there.  The day will come when you can finally exhale.

EM,

I agree with moglow 100%.  In addition, I find it very effective to remember 1. I only control myself not others. 2.  I will utilize irrefutable facts. 3. since PD's are notorious hypocrites i may be able to use their past choices for themselves, in my benefit. 

For example you wrote: " I told her no she can't come...".  I cant control my uPDw traveling anywhere, especially if she has money and a set of wheels.  But i can control myself, therefore i would say to my uPDw:

"I prefer to travel alone with the kids to my parents, therefore that is my plan". (1= what I'm doing)

"Im desiring to take a father/kids trip so that is the plan" (2= im the only 'father' in the family)

"I have supported you traveling solo with the kids in the past and will continue to support that in the future if thats what you choose for yourself" (3= I am equally available to do what my uPDw does)

Also, you wrote "absolute only way to get her out of my room".   I immediately get myself out of the room, leaving my uPDw standing in my room alone.  Equally effective. 

Lastly, i remember that 'Fear of Abandonment' is the largest underlying PD trait in my uPDw and so if the rest of the family departs, my uPDw is left to face herself alone, which is her abandonment fear.

Definition here:
https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/fear-of-abandonment

SoT

So many great posts, thank you all, it really helps to get all your support.

To refer to the saying no and just stick to it, and for me to leave the room as SOT says. Yes that is the ideal, but maybe I am weak and can see when her tipping point comes and I have two alternatives, either just delay my next no or face an immediate rage. For my self protection I am doing all I can to avoid further rage attacks. I am tired, I am worn out, I am just running down the clock. At the end of the day, she can think she is going to this trip as much as she wants, when I have done some more planning around it I will book flight tickets for me and my kiddos. If she desire to come, as you said SOT she can but she has to arrange for her own travel and accommodation.

But this will be interesting for what happens this summer, kids are off for close to 2 months, STBX can only take 2 weeks off, I work for myself and can take the entire summer off. 2 weeks to see my parents, then 2 weeks to the beach, couple of shorter overnight stays. She is going to go absolutely mental when she realises this and cannot come even if she was invited. If she was clever, she would take 2 weeks off when she could have them on her own and do whatever they desire to do together, not try to tag along on the first trip and not have any own time with them. But she is the PD not me, I don't care what she plans in her mind, it will be chaos for her anyway.

Regarding looking after myself, not I am not doing to well to be honest. Eating to much and to bad, probably having one or two drinks more than I should after everyone gone to bed. Not exercising as much as I should, but I try, unfortunately I had some injuries and then illnesses stopping me. But I have it all setup in my mind how things will be as soon as I am out of this. I have a training plan and also a diet to follow, but it's impossible to do in this environment. But I am taking regular breaks from her, going away for a few days as often as I can. This at least gives me some time to recover. Although I hat leaving without the kids, without it I couldn't save them.

Again, thank you all for your support. It means so much to me.

And there it came, the full blown rage attack.

Apparently I am not allowed to leave the house unless I tell her exactly where I am going. She was standing screaming and swearing at me demanding me to tell her, and then screamed and got GC against me for how horrible I am to her (I was standing in complete calmness and replied I am not "telling you"). Earlier today I found out she had been helping herself to money out of the company, apparently she is entitled to it. She is entitled to everything that is hers, and everything that is mine, and some more.  She has gone out now, and I am so disgusted with her, there is no wonder I was a wreck before I came Out of the FOG as I tried to justify and argue my rights when she was in this mood.

I am wondering how am I supposed to me in the same house as her when she screams at me and turn one of the children against me screaming at me to?

Luckily I got the entire episode with the 2 hour build up when she got angrier and angrier on tape.

EM,

Please please please see your lawyer asap.  All of our marital accounts were frozen as soon as the paperwork was filed and we could only access living expenses as approved by the court.  At a minimum make sure you remove her name from the accounts to block her access to those funds.

As for the raging, talk to your lawyer.  There must be a way you can move or ask her to move.  This is not sustainable for any of you.  It is unreasonable that you have to stay.

Breathe.  Please breathe and I salute you for maintaining your calm.

I sent my solicitor an email explaining the situation is untenable and what options I have about either moving out or having STBX removed from the house. As a short term plan I am leaving the house and will stay in a hotel, this was already planned but not sure if I can go back afterwards. I am a wreck, can't do any work now as I am so stressed out.

You aren't alone.

You are being abused. I know what that is like as I have been there too.

I have witnessed my uBPD/NPD sister raging at our elderly frail parents, her now ex husband, her children, our siblings and their families and myself.

It's frightening to be around someone who does this. My sister uses her loud voice as a weapon deliberately to harm and hurt people.

I ended up calling emergency services to protect our elderly mother from my sister.

My sister has emotional landslides when she totally rages and screams. It's so scary. At those times she is capable of anything. She is like a wild animal.

I have learnt to stay calm and not be near her to protect myself. I wouldn't try to hug her. She would misinterpret my actions as a threat and would lash out at me.

My body would go into a catatonic state because of the fight, flight, freeze, fawn, faint response from all the adrenaline being released.

One time I was just howling and shaking because I was so frightened. I was broken.

Please call for help. There are people that can help you and your children.

You are not alone.

Thanks guitarman. See was walking round the house for an hour screaming and shouting and hurling abuse at me and the girls (me locked in my office and the girls in school). As soon as she finished I packed my bags and left. Now sitting at the airport with a cold beer thinking I probably never return.

Wow.
Just wow.
Remember, your body keeps score. Stress damages you physically as well as emotionally. No one on earth should be treated like that.
God bless you, and help lead you forward.

I'm sorry. You andthe girls should not have to endure that, ever. P

Quote from: square on April 01, 2022, 10:48:56 AM
I'm sorry. You andthe girls should not have to endure that, ever. P

The girls where in school so happily unaware about being shouted at  :stars: But they got alot in the morning and yesterday. GC was told off for how she was so mean to invite a friend as that meant STBX has to clean the entire house to perfection.

I am just worn out. I will probably have to get signed off work to recover from all this.

I know they missed that particular spate of abuse but they are living it every day nonetheless.

Just in case, the random P was just fumble fingers. I'm sure that's obvious but it resembles the tongue emoticon which I did not remotely intend.

Quote from: square on April 01, 2022, 12:07:38 PM
Just in case, the random P was just fumble fingers. I'm sure that's obvious but it resembles the tongue emoticon which I did not remotely intend.

Didn't even notice it so don't worry. If anything g I am a master of fat fingers snd misspellings.

So much went wrong today after I left home, but I enjoyed every minute of it. I didn't give STBX a single thought and I just love being able to take difficulties on the chin. So many times on my journey would she have kicked off, I just happily smiled and got on with it. Such a liberation to not worry about how someone else is feeling. OK I am 3 hours late my destination,  but so what?

I am so clear in my mind now about next step. I can't go back home and I need to get the kids out of there.

Wish me luck.

So worn out. Glad I have started the divorce process and got a bit, I don't think I would have had the energy to start it now. Woke up in the night in a fright as I heard her voice calling for me. I need to take off this armour and stop pretending I can protect the kids from home, I am not protecting myself.

She just messaged me she wants me back home as she wants to save the family. I am feeling sick of hiw she one moment treat me like a a piece if dog turd and the next pretends she is trying to save the daily and its all my fault.

I am really considering getting a sick note from my doctor and take a substantial time off to recover. And at the same time use that in the divorce and blame her for loss of income.

At least I am far away from her right now so she can't get to me physically.

You are being emotionally abused.

You are safe where you are but your mind doesn't realise that yet as you have endured trauma for so long. Your mind still feels in danger and wants to protect you.

I live with constant anticipatory dread and hyper vigilance thinking that something very bad is about to happen. I am on constant alert for danger. It's all part of CPTSD. I get regular flashbacks of life threatening incidents and extreme emotionally abusive times. I get triggered easily into an anxiety state.

These are all quite normal symptoms after being around someone who has been so abusive for so long.

I've just learnt this meditation from Dr Ron Siegel.

https://drronsiegel.com/

"Even though the future is uncertain here and now I'm safe".

I calmly repeat it to myself over and over. That helps to ground me in the present. I observe my breathing.

Anxiety is an awful state to be in. It can feel impossible to think straight. I know.

I follow the Mindfulness teacher Tara Brach. I listen to her regular free talks. They help to keep me calm. I become more able to cope when I am calm.

www.tarabrach.com

Maybe you will be able to talk with your therapist soon. I hope so.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

Thanks Guitarman.

I am really stressad now and need validation I am soing the right thing short term. I left the house on a planned trip STBX new about, but she still blamed me in the end as apparently I put her in a difficult situation with looking after GC(her mum lives round the corner). She also raged so much just before I left I still get shivers down my spine thinking about ever experiencing it again. I have now booked a hotel for when coming back and then just not go back, ever. This makes me feel guilty as GC will need looked after. But I am a wreck, I am mentally worn down. Is it my obligation to get back into the fire to look after my child, or is it hers as she has seriously abused me?

I am at the end here.

I think you have to take care of yourself first at the moment and stay away. You recognise that being in contact with your wife would be detrimental for your mental health which is also impacting your physical health.

You are very vulnerable. When we are in that state we are more likely to breakdown. That is when violence can occur because we can't cope any more. I know, because I've been there as well.

You are getting support. You are seeing a therapist and seeing your doctor.

If your children are in danger then social services need to be informed. I know that's not easy to do but it has to be done for their safety.

Your wife needs help if she is in danger of harming herself or others. That is what the mental health professionals make a judgement on. You need to give the responsibility of her care to the mental health professionals. Let them make that decision.

I have been in a similar situation many times with my uBPD/NPD sister. It was the best decision I made to let the professionals know what is really going on in the family.

My sister threatened her husband with a knife. She had a meltdown and was lighting matches outside her adult son's bedroom door. My other sibling took him to the police station and my sister could have been arrested for attempted arson. My nephew didn't pursue it as he was still living there. I wish the police had arrested her. She would have got the right treatment that she really needed.

Sometimes people don't get the right treatment until there is a life threatening incident. I hope it never reaches that stage with you and your family. From all the signs you are posting about your wife's behaviour is getting worse. Please let your doctor know what is going on. Let them take the responsibility of her care.

You need to take care of yourself as no one else is going to do that for you.

There are support lines you can call.

As you are in the UK you can call Samaritans for a chat. They are very good. I've called them myself many times. You don't have to feel suicidal to call them.

Call 116 123 for free at any time.

Website
https://www.samaritans.org/


Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

EM,

I am happy that you have a safe environment to return too - the hotel room sounds like a good solution.  Perhaps you can get a place for the girls as well - an adjoining room or suite.  So they know, which is important, that they have a safe place as well.  That the safe place is with you.  Even if they aren't there daily.

Guitarman is right.  This is a dangerous time with emotions running high all over.  Be very careful - she could turn physical or take it out on the kids or your possessions. 

I am glad that you are posting here and venting.  The situation sounds absolutely untenable.  Don't forget to take those long deep in and out breaths.  They do help with anxiety.

I am waiting to hear back from my solicitor, hopefully I get to talk to her today.

With some distance to it I have decided to go home for the day when GC need to be looked after, I don't want to get her to feel abandoned. But, STBX is crumbling and I am worried of her next actions, probably better for me to be around and be the punching bag than the kids. But I am also meeting with my therapist tomorrow, she has said she will whelp me report to social services if I feel the need or if she feel the need (out of my hand if she suspect risk for the kids). I feel a bit stronger having been away for a few days, but I am very aware of how I felt when I left. Maybe I need her to be physical towards me to have her removed? Or a complete breakdown? Or maybe what has happened is enough? I am sure I have enough new incidents for my solicitor, but it cost a lot to get the court orders, and STBX could fight them and potentially have them overruled. I don't know.

My worst worry is how fast my brain seems to forget the abuse and try to convince me it will be fine to go back home. 

Being shouted at is abuse.

You can call Samaritans for free at any time for a chat.

Call 116 123

Any bruises my uBPD/NPD sister had when my other sibling tried to restrain her or pull her away from intimidating another family member were used as evidence against them. So be aware of that.

It is best not to have any physical contact at all.

Everything can be twisted around against you.

My sister could misconstrue a hug as an attack.

Please be careful.

My sister was so pleased she had bruises as she then felt she had the physical evidence to show police that she had been attacked and was the victim not the abuser.

STBX has done the opposite, attacked me and then when I defended myself argued she tried to hug me. I am not sure why not need running towards someone that sits on the floor getting something out of the fridge with both arms up ready to show in the back.

I have the bruises from before documented, but no I am not intending to touch her, but record her when she rage.

But I get you, she will twist anything or make up anything to make me look the bad one. I also know she has GC so far under her control so I am very worried she will back any lie STBX will produce.

I am also really tired of running away, I don't want to have to go and stay in a hotel all the time for my peace. I will still do it, but I need to sort out a new home. I don't want our current house, to many bad memories and will always be a reminder of all hope and promises that never happened.

Thanks for being here for me. I am not ready to call someone else right now, but maybe soon. I am slowly telling people about the divorce, but not the abuse as they will only look at me and laugh at me for being double her size and not being able to sort her out.

EM:

Don't share as much of your story with people who don't understand. 

Tell those who "get it."

Depend on them.

Lean on them.

Ask for help from them.

Any reported incident should happen when kids aren't home, IME.  Take them out to f situation.  If stbx tosses tv button at you...Report it is my advice.

Your situation improves when stbx faces consequences for violence and abuse.

Your life gets simpler, you'll likely waste fewer resources and time......better mental health, etc.

Ok. Not to surprising.  She has declared war through her solocitor. She basically want all my money. I fight this. I am ready for it. I am angry. I am furious. But I will win it.

Now that she has declared war be very careful. We think it's just an expression  but in our experience they mean it and anything is fair game. I get your concern for the gc but wonder if you are putting yourself into a trap. Your gc will benefit from years of therapy, another month will make little difference. If she's forced into testifying against you that could be quite different. it will likely leave her with guilt on top of everything else.
Dh's pdxw declared war, threw herself down the stairs and called the police alleging abuse. It was only because his kids also said what happened that he didn't end up in jail. Don't underestimate. Imo you can be set up and her lawyer may be giving her some ideas. Out of the line of fire is often best practice.

 :yeahthat: I agree with Rose1.

Now that she's shown her hand, this becomes a different kind of battle. Whatever you are feeling—anger, frustration, etc., it's ok.  Just remember that while it will be hard at times, outwardly you need to appear pragmatic, calm, and ready for whatever comes.  It may feel unnatural at first, to switch into a cold and calculated business mode regarding your own family.  However, you aren't going to end up with things you want out of this, unless you do.  Only tip your hand when it benefits you to do so.  Otherwise, head down, stay quiet.  Let the girls see you be the stable, rational parent right now, without explanation.  You have the rest of your life to build the relationship you want with them, separate from their PdM.

So, she made up a lie to her solicitor that I am about to take all the money so she now wants my money frozen. At the same time she has told GC the same lie and I am now shouted at by GC for being a criminal and that she hates me more than anything in the world, she even physically attacked me when I tried to speak to her. When I spoke to my solicitor she just laughed at the attempt by STBX and I think she will enjoy taking her down. As a first step STBX will be warned again for her behaviour, and if she doesn't adjust go for a court order to have her removed, which my solicitor feels is a real possibility based on the latest event.

It would be safer for you not to stay there.

If your wife is unstable and acting out she could make up false allegations against you. It's the black or white thinking. "If you aren't my friend then you are my enemy".

My uBPD/NPD sister did it. She could be a very believable actor. She twisted history around so much that she began to believe all the lies she told about people. She became paranoid and delusional.

Your wife may already be starting smear campaigns about you for her to appear the victim.

I know you are worried about your children and want to be with them to protect them. It's an awful dilemma to be in.

I'm glad that your solicitor is able to give you the right information about what is actually legal and what isn't.

Your wife is trying to intimidate you. She is losing her power and control over you and has to become more extreme.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe.  Keep posting.

Guitarman, I am leaving again tomorrow. I came back for the day as GC was supposed to on her own and I did not want her to think I abandoned her, this didn't really matter in the end as I have been very much abused by my own daughter using arguments fed by STBX. Then I will be thinking of next steps and how to stay away without moving out. I have actually been called a criminal by STBX for not wanting to share my income with her anymore. The entitlement is really making me feel sick., in her mind she will get 50% of all my income for the rest of our lives whether we stay married or not.

So she has thought about it and decided that a nice life on your money is what is going to happen. She will not be happy as things change. Dh's ex believed the same and managed to take him to 0 through through courts. US courts are often a lot worse of course, but it was a long procedure because she had no intention of complying with anything, wanted dh to end up penniless if she couldn't have it, and certainly didn't care if her kids were impacted,  which the youngest certainly was. The next youngest, the gc, was persuaded to join in the games. He does not have much of a relationship with dh now as an adult, probably because he still buys into the alienation.
She may look like she wants gc on her side but is just as likely to drop her if it suits.
Sadly once war is declared the quicker this can be finished, the better. Hopefully she will show her true colours at some point.

All you can do at this point is stay quiet, and be reasonable, through your solicitor. Trying to reason with her, or even with GC right now, will only lead to more chaos.  Just because she wants something to be true, doesn't mean it is.  Let her flail and thrash around and discover that on her own, while you're keeping your ducks nicely in a row.  There's a much better than even chance that your kids, even GC, will change their perspectives over time.  If you'd let this untenable situation continue, it wouldn't have gotten better for them, or you. You're doing very courageous things right now, even though lying low and staying quiet doesn't always feel like it.

Thanks for all support.

I have left again, at least temporary whilst trying to cobble together a plan. Yesterday evening was horrendous with STBX and GC spinning the lie STBX made up about me. There is nothing I can do right now as all GC does is tell me to get lost and laughs at me.

Will probably go for the court order soon, but  letting the solicitor take it in the right order.

Courts don't like parental alienation and currently it's rather obvious it's happening. Good your lawyer is on it

There will be more lies, more chaos and confusion will multiply if the stbx is in charge of timeline and what happens next.

Getting out in front of that might still be possible.  Maybe not.

Currently listening through "Cloce encounters of the worst kind" written by Randi Fendi. This might honestly be one of the best books written in history, at least for where I am in my process. The book explain the abuse and what is going on with such accuracy I am getting so validated. I am really starting to feel like I am going to take her on, she will try to take me down and leave me with nothing. So why should I not do the same? I tried to protect STBX but not anymore. She declared war, she will get it.

Don't be surprised if stbx gets everything she asks for then refuses to settle and asks for more, then more then more till you're forced into a trial to it.

That's why I said to lean into a trial early on, as quickly as you can.     

It's typically the quickest way out if divorce with a PD, IME

Quote from: hhaw on April 07, 2022, 09:41:33 AM
Don't be surprised if stbx gets everything she asks for then refuses to settle and asks for more, then more then more till you're forced into a trial to it.

That's why I said to lean into a trial early on, as quickly as you can.     

It's typically the quickest way out if divorce with a PD, IME

The thing hhaw, is that I have changed since this started. I am no longer protecting her, I can see clearly and I am not hesitating going to the police again, but not for abusing me but the kids.

You were focused on waiting for the STBX to accept or reject the divorce for.....what?  A month?  Two?  Three?  Longer? It seemed so important at the time.  To wait.  For that decision.  From the stbx.

Divorcing a harmful PD can feel like having tunnel vision, IME.  The PD waves a hand up high so your eyes move there.  Meanwhile, the PD is doing other things down low, or behind you, but you're so focused on that waving hand, likely bc you've been tuning into people your whole life, so you're not even aware you're doing it.

And that's your default setting.  How long does it take to change that default?

I think everyone has a different timeline for snapping out of that trance, if they snap out of it.  The point where one knows and accepts all norms and familiar things are unsafe and dangerous, particularly to the children involved.....and that's a very difficult pill to swallow and keep down with so many dauntingly terrifying realities we helped build when we protected and enabled and hid from view what is now imperative to prove/explain/attempt to square up for people who don't understand how the frog in the pot ends up in boiling water, jumps, but is overwhelmed, bc bc bc
the children are still IN the pot....
the PD is sometimes STILL the person we needed them to be.....safe....at the very least ,..safe, but they aren't.  They never will be but that goes in and out if focus.  The divorce process is brutal and long and expensive and traumatic and crushes the children in the already boiling pot!  How can one think clearly, for heaven's sake!?!?

And staying with the PD so long makes explaining the story more difficult, bc everyone lies in divorce court.....everyone questions intentions and motives and assumes exaggerated stories, if not wholesale lies from both litigants.

And now you aren't protecting the PD and she wants all your money and you're talking about that.....money.

You have to try to see it like outsiders see it.  Outsiders know abuse and harm to children is wrong and bad and should be a line in the sand....a priority, but you've talked about how your PD terrorizes you ( using the children)...you talk about the PD bothering and controlling you while you're working and controls you or attempts to control you and you're waiting for her to tell you what you should do while waiting is exactly what she needs you to do and maybe you aren't as ready to change things as you believe you are and that's not a judgment.....I think it's how people come out of trances.  In increments, more or less slowly.  Many years into the woods....many years out, but there have to be limits and everyone will see those limits and lines differently, IME.  Everyone.

Maybe you can't even fathom what that would look like?  To act with single minded focus with one thing in mind.  Maybe that kind of change will be a reverse frog in boiling water, bc IME there are many moving pieces to leaving a toxic PD willing to lie, cheat and steal while you follow every rule, tell the exact truth and wait for the PD to inform your next move or decision or game plan.

Waiting is what you've always done and IME your children will be in high school before you've settled the divorce, the custody, the money, the visitation,who gets this and that candy dish and maybe a trial or two ....three? 

The longer you wait to hold the PD accountable for everything they've done
creates  more chaos and confusion you help the PD spin around everything and there was only ever one real issue, imo ......the violence and abuse, particularly regarding the children who never had any choices.   The children are hostages in this.  You, as an adult, had choices or could have if you could have seen your stbx with clarity, but here you are...  Talking about money and a whiney stbx asking to keep the family together....professing love for you and WE understand how creepy that is, but outsiders won't. 

You're likely now going to have to allow harm to your children so you can prove harm to them before you can stop it....
where you perhaps co uld have skipped that had you filed charges up front for past violent behavior your stbx committed, but that seemed impossible early on.  It does for the majority of spouses suffering abuse.

I guess I'm saying I agree with too little too late, EM...not protecting your stbx is too little too late from where I'm standing and that's just my opinion.  Not law or particularly important, so don't get upset reading it.  It's my story, in my head ...not necessarily your reality.

I refused to file charges against my PD too, btw....then it was too late, or so  I was told by my attorney.

I had to allow harm to my children to prove it, then stop it.  You're a kind of hostage too, bc you can't see you have choices....you do and you always have as an adult, but it's almost impossible to see it, IME.  How can one act when one can't even see the moving pieces all at once? 

That's the spell we believe, IME.  That we have to wait, tell strict truths and follow every rule while the PDs splash around the justice system with impunity and very rare consequences, if any.....and it's difficult to see what part one plays in it till it's spiraled well out of control and runs it's messy course.

Why we build and stay in these terrible traps is the stuff we figure out in T sessions, IME.

Your stbx will fight tooth and nail against your children getting T.  She'll sabotage anything you manage to put in place, maybe poison the GC against the idea of it......so ya.  Maybe the time to mitigate harm has passed, EM.

All that evidence against the stbx and no way to use it. Right?  That's what the police and your attorney told you, right?  Because you waited and there haven't been any recent assaults, right?

I still don't understand it, but I know we  sabotage ourselves and can't see it till way too late to reverse it, IME.

You're not protecting the stbx anymore.  At this point.  After all she's done and is doing to your children.... I'm afraid for your children....that's too little, too late. 

I hope I'm wrong.  I hope you get the evidence you need and use it.  I truly do but I think it's a kind of learned helplessness.  I think we believe a narrative around having to wait and not being able to act and bring change into our lives and it hurts us and slows the progress we identify as what we need.

So..... unconscious beliefs are at work and we can't see them till we're out the other end, most times.

hhaw, thanks for your feeback altough I feel you are kicking on someone laying down.

I am not going to defend myself, I have spent way to much of my life defending myself. I did not intend to marry a PD, nor did I intend to divorce one. I have been and still am paralysed at some aspects. If I look at my progress I think I have done way better than I expected, but of course I could have done better. I am not just waiting for her to decide to cause havoc, I have to wait for the solicitors and the courts and follow the process. I can't rush that however much I want to. I had to wait for STBX to reply to the court if she was going to defend the divorce or accept it, without that I could not progress. Right now my solicitor is strongly recommending me to stay in the house (or at least not get a new address) until we can get a deal regarding finances and children. If I move out without this I risk both as then she will have zero motivation to agree to anything as she is still in the house with the children and I am out. Also, I prefer to not have STBX be removed by police in front of the kids with them blaming me for their mum being taken away. I don't want her to cause any harm to the children, I am not baiting her to do so, but if she does it is certainly not my fault - I cannot control her actions and behaviours. But I am sure she got the warning from my solicitor by now, cause when I came home GC gave me a big hug and STBX smiled and smirked. All for show, but this has worked before for her so no doubt she think I believe she is now going to be nice as pie.

Forgive me for not getting a phd in living and divorcing a PD.

EM,

I'm sorry you feel like we are kicking you when your down.  I feel your pain and anger and anguish when I read your posts and there are times I find them quite traumatic.  I lived through it and it is hard to read it everyday when you post.  But that is my problem not yours.  You need to post in a safe environment and we need to tell you we hear you, we see you and we are supporting you in our invisible, yet tangible way. 

I have to tell myself that it has only been a few months since you filed and it took my ex quite some time to respond and get his act together.  From start to finish it was seven months.  I think that is about average here in the states for most middle class marriages with average debt/income.

This is also the time that real physical harm occurs which is why there are so many of us afraid for you.  Your situation is scary and quite frightening.  i hope that have conveyed that to a lawyer.  Do not underestimate that side of things. Yes you are a man and most likely stronger but a PD is not thinking right so please please please be careful.

I guess I don't understand why you can't take the girls with you and leave.  It shouldn't matter that you are a man - you are still the biological parent.  But I know laws are different in different places.

Please know we support you and we got you.

I am sorry if my posts are triggering to you JKT, but this is really my only place to vent.

The reason I am not moving out and just taking the kids are that I don't think I can do that. GC would not come with me, and if I got SG with me I would probably be accused for kidnapping, or even worse blamed for only caring for SG and losing GC completely. I am also very worried about the escalation as soon as STBX really understand she has lost and I am out. She is still fighting me on 2 fronts, one through the solicitors where I am a bad bad one, and one at home where all she wants is for us to be best of friends. I is really killing me to see how she can hate me with her left hand and "love" me with her right hand.

We just started the financial talks, and she think she is entitled to it all, and some more. I am not surprised but I wonder if this entitlement will blow up in her face? Everything I have put into the joint bank accounts are to share, everything she has put in is hers. However, finances is my least problem as my main focus is the kids, but I can't let her bleed my dry just because I care more about the kids.

She is playing a game of chess with me, only way to beat her is to play it as well but better.

I'm in no position to offer legal advice, but what you described about having to stay in the home makes sense to me. I know leaving can be seen as abandonment and imply you are a secondary parent, and taking the kids can be seen as kidnapping, and the specific situation with GC complicates things even further.

I hope that something like an initial or temporary order can happen so you don't have to wait for the whole divorce to be finalized.

EM - my post in no way was an admonishment but intended to offer you support.  JKT

JKT - I know, but maybe I need to be less specific in my posts if it trigger people?

Square - Thanks, I wish I could move out tomorrow with the kids but at the moment I can't.

I had a very mature and hearth breaking conversation with SG yesterday. She think she knows what's going on and wants to know more details. I so want to tell her exactly but I can't, I know she in any moment could tell STBX as she knows throwing me under a bus buys her temporary love from STBX. But I am almost 100% sure she would come with me if it was her choice, she tells me how fed up she is with being shouted at and ignored and the rest. I am trying to keep her out the house as much as possible, doing activities, GC is always invited but refuses to come. SG has invited a friend to the house, she has lots of friends and I am encouraging her all the time to have friends, I do the same to GC but she only want to stay at home with STBX. GC started shouting at SG for inviting this friend, she is to messy apparently and could mess the house up. Both SG and GC have been invited to this friend several times and GC always tries to find reasons to stay at home, the friends dad knows I am struggling to get GC out the house (he does not know the story) and is always trying to include GC when the friends are going to meet up. I am worried things might get tense when this friend comes over, not sure if I should try to defuse the situation and take them out somewhere, or let GC and STBX panic that someone is coming into "their kingdom". I am sure the mask won't slip whilst the friend is here, but it will be rage before as the entire house needs cleaning and be perfect when anyone comes to visit.

I found this very hard now, very hard, the two faced game STBX is playing. She is pretending to be nice to my face, she expects me to pay for an provide her with streaming services, still give her money for her to spend as she wish. At the same time, she is trying to take me to the cleaner through her solicitor, she is asking for everything and some more, already shown her card that she is going to tell the court she is the victim and I have caused her to be depressed. At home, she washes up all her dishes, but she leave my coffee cup unwashed. She has stopped washing my clothes, but I am not allowed to use "her" washing machine. I can't even look at her, I feel physically sick when she is in the same room, listening to her voice makes me want to vomit.  So she claims to me that she want us to stay together and all this will stop if I just change my mind. To me, if you want someone to change their mind and you have been at fault, you be nice to them and not try to threaten them and make their life miserable to change their mind. 

I am going crazy with this.

EM -  you keep posting.   I can tell it's helping you get through this.  Don't worry about it - it's my problem not yours. 

Please get the girls into therapy as soon as you can.  They will benefit from a source outside of school, friends and family to whom they can share and lean on.   It has been a tremendous support to my son.

I am going to encourage you to understand the law in this part of the divorce process.  For me, here in my state, in the US, it's 50/50 everything brought into the marriage unless it was like an inheritance specified for me.  If you understand this, you don't need to share it, then things like washing machines become a mute point.  Do your clothes.  Just look at her in silence and keep being you.

Post post post.  We are here for you.

I used to throw up in my mouth when forced to spend time with stbx during this time in our divorce, EM.

I can honestly say you don't have any good choices and won't for a while.

Your children are being harmed every day whether you have the stbx removed by the police or not. 

IF she's vremoved you'll at least be validated with the children and courts that the stbx IS the one doing the harm AND finally suffering the logical consequences of her actions AND treatment becomes possible for the children AND the stbx.

I've lived the game you're forced to play and letting the stbx lead was catastrophic for both our families.

I'm hoping you can gut through to a better outcome and YES it would mean you're making impossible to fathom difficult choices you never felt you'd have the strength to make.  YES it means choosing something harmful to your children, but they're already in harm's way, living in trauma..... it becomes a matter of mitigating harm and releasing your expectations for protecting your children.

That ship sailed and now you're plotting a course to a new land......and it's a distant land, but a real place you have to
plot a course for and sail through storms and hurricanes and sea monsters with the girls tied to the mast but sail you must to get to that f we safe land.

Or not.

The course the courts and stbx are sailing requires you do as you're told and accept the rules.....you playing fair, keeping your trauma and truth in check while the stbx lies, cheats, steals and harms all of your family basically unchecked.

Changing that would take a tremendous act of courage and trusting you can get the girls therapy and support to help them understand their abusive  mother's behaviors aren't normal or something anyone can get away with....there are consequences and maybe it would be best if your T makes that call for you, EM.

I aire your strength and know how it ebbs and flows.  Please begin radical self care measures and release expectation....do what you can today ( every day) and release the worry.

Find good Ts from r the children....have them lined up.  Your T should have had that in place by now and you haven't said what the domestic abuse people are saying lately.  Talk to them.  Maybe take SG and GO TO THEM and stay there to feel safe and find support and SHOW the courts what you and the children are suffering with for God's sake what is your T saying?

And you speak as plainly as you need to EM.  I'm not triggered.  I see with clarity and strength I send to you through this forum..... Make a good plan, include as many advocates and systems as you can, ask for help and execute your good plan....stuck to it when things go dark, lean on your supporters....they will help you stay or get grounded as needed but don't think your attorney is giving you the best advice.  Your attorney is a tool and you have the power to weild her

In closing.....this is going to be a sh+t show, EM.  Will it all fall on you and the girls or will it not,?

That's the question.

I believe in you.  Please know in your heart you can do this and stop doubting bc the girls need you. 

And final thought....stop paying attention to ANYTHING the stbx says please fir the love of God.....the courts are going to decide who gets what and who's abusive and who gets control of the kids so keep doing trial prep and crack on towards trial.

Have your shortlist of must haves on your settlement discussion page, join in shirt discussions about settling in gen break off discussions when stbx and refuses your very short and reasonable list you've based on the best interest of the children and end this divorce suffering so you can build a better life and model something better for your children, EM.

I realize I lied to you when I said aI wasn't triggered.  I am when I read you're under the impression you have to wait wait wait for the court and PD.

You don't and you might not internalize that in time to utilize it but I've said it here, for you many times and it's possible, better if it's a good plan and you follow it, IME.

You can break out of this helplessness belief system you've internalized.  The attorneys honor each other and make money off their clients.

You can honor yourself and children first, but always speak to your attorney with a calm polite tone while doing it.

I should have ignored my attorney and asked the court for a protective order instead of staying in the house with my PD....like you.....throwing up in my mouth and feeling my body break down around me.....not know wing how to ask for help and too damn stoic to had I known.

Ask your T and the domestic violence people to help you make a plan, EM.

Thanks hhaw and JKT

GC needs therapy and she needs it soon. She is completely brainwashed and is bullying SG and me with the backing of STBX. She is now physically entering SG's personal space pushing her and harassing her until she gets a reaction and then run crying to STBX to have her shout at SG. This is completely untenable and yesterday it went so bad I had to intervene, which of course got the result that GC shouted and screamed at me with STBX smirking behind her back. I can see the two of them having a masterplan to get me framed as the bad one and that what is making me so scared of taking the next step. STBX is so convincing when she starts, she really can make people doubt if black really is black and white really is white. I don't know if she has any recordings or anything from when I have been baited in the past before I knew to MC and noJADE. I used to shout back in desperation when I was still in the FOG, I was defending myself and I am not sure if that will or can be used against me. I am sure uNPDmil will be absolutely delighted to join a smear campaign and lite to the police or anyone to get me done.

Yesterday SG asked me if we can go away for Easter just her and me, she told me she wants calm. She recently spent quite a lot of time with a new friend and her parents, I have pushed for this as well, and she has started to see how a normal family works and behaves. She now want's this too. She doesn't want to be bullied by her mum and sister. My hearth is really bleeding because if I fail to rescue her, how can she survive with those 2 bullying her all day long every day?

Talk
To
Your

T
And
To
The
Domestic
Violence
People
And
Police
And your attorney.


In US I could have asked the court for a protective order, even though my $900.00 an hour attorney told me I wouldn't get one at friggin Christmas.

Document.
Pull the best of your evidence .....
Ask for help.

It's unlikely stbx recorded anything early on. 

Yes, MIL will likely lie with stbxBUT it's not easy to lie consistently without repeating certain phrases and that's what they/ the experts look for when witnesses have been coached, particularly children.

You should have lodged charges sooner but you didn't.  I'm thinking stbx directing GC to assault SG in order to bait you is reason enough to file for past aggressions against you.....ask the domestic violence people and your T, please.

EM:

Remember to tell your story always with compassion for stbx AND GC when relating THE FACTS YOU CAN PROVE.

Give only the burger......no lettuce, tomato, pickles bun or condiments.  The LARGE facts AND evidence to back them up.

You want to protect your children.

You fear for them both equally as GC's sanctioned aggression towards her special needs sister will likely be as detrimental to GC as it is for SG.

Both children are in harm's way and you're looking for a way to get everyone help, including the stbx, bc
A)  You don't know what's going on to cause her irrational behavior and
B) You're hoping she can sort it out if she gets some support.

Stbx is the mother of your shared daughters and you want peace and good things for her.  It's breaking your heart to watch your family break down under the ( insert strongest facts around Stbx's most toxic behaviors) and it's time to get an expert T involved sooner than later if psych evals are going to happen.

Ask your T for referrals of Ts working in your County Court system who knows the Judges and have clout.

You're going to have to act if you're going to stop what's falling on your DD's heads, IME.

Having stbx admitted for evaluation in hospital if she threatens harm seems like least harmful intervention from where aI stand.  It's you asking for help....not asking to punish stbx.

This follows your narrative.....you COULD have filed charges but didn't bc
( Insert care for stbx and hope for her recovery). 

You never use medical terms....only describe behaviors like you're describing them to a child.

Short. Simple.  Stop talking. Repeat.

Stick to your evidence.  Never describe behaviors you can't prove.

Good luck

EM:

You're not superman so of course you've lost your temper as your stbx's behaviors escalated in the family..... you're overwhelmed and frightened and at your wit's end which is why you've file divorce.

It's ok to be human and admit it and keep asking for help for the girls....always return back to what's best for the children again and again and again.  It's impossible for people to defeat arguments based on what's best for the children.

So....always refer to stbx with compassion BUT prioritize the children, the harm, the dysfunction you no longer find yourself able to mitigate and so.....
you're asking for any and all relief the Courts, police, hospitals and domestic violence people can offer you.

Where is your attorney in this NOW?  I'd ask for an emergency hearing to STOP the aggression and rages in front of and directed AT the children with GC being directed to aggress against special needs SG who's begging you
FOR
HELP.

Thanks hhaw.

Typically my T is off sick at the moment and I am waiting for my next appointment, hopefully that won't be to long. For my attorney I will speak to her and make a strategy, STBX is about to paint herself into a corner.

SG is not a special needs girl, but she doesn't need the abuse from her sister backed by her mum. She is spending almost all her time with me or friends at the moment (I am pushing for her to build friendships) and very little time with her mum. But she is still very much in the FOG with her mum and do a lot of things (or more like she doesn't do things) out of guilt. This trip away over Easter she asked me for a couple of days ago, she is very unsure about now as she doesn't want to upset STBX - even though she has told me herself that Easter will be spent rowing and being shouted at. I have told her it is her choice if she want's to go with me or stay with her mum, I can or will not force her. But all I know is that if we all stay and celebrate Easter together it will be a ticking bomb that will explode. I will prevent that with leaving, yes it will hurt to not be with the kids over Easter but that is better than the fighting that will happen.

I think I still suffer a lot from learned helplessness as I struggle to get my act together, it's almost like it feels like it is easier to just sit here and wait for it to get better. But at the end of the day, something will have to happen at some point and I know I need to act. I am just very scared of the full out war that is coming where I will be smeared and accused of all sorts. I am also very worried about having STBX removed as I am so worn down by it all that I am unsure how to cope with the girls on my own, especially as I expect GC to be a real pain and blame me if that happens.

Mentally however, I am getting myself ready for the full out war and that I need to fight for my life and not spare any feelings anymore. I am just shit scared of it.

Going through a divorce is scary. That you are acknowledging your fear is a good thing. You can survive the process!

Thanks user. It is difficult to see the forest for the trees, you are so right. Yesterday she baited and baited, I fell for it an got in to JADE. She did it all covertly behind the scenes and through GC. I think she might have overstepped it quite severely this time, but I think I need to get out ASAP, and then in a calm environment get all my evidence together and write it down including all things she has done, with backing evidence. Then  present it to either my solicitor, police, social or all of them. I don't want to just go the solicitor cry about this latest incident, I want her taken down for all of it now. It's not about getting an emergency order just to have her temporary removed and give her the opportunity to attack me back through some made up crap, I need to go for full custody and save the kids. What is 2 more weeks or even a month if that could be the difference of winning the war and not just a battle.

That sounds a very apt metaphor, EM
Armour both internal and external. Pre planning, objectivity, clear headed nests, a variety of options for every conceivable countermove/ outcome. Drawing in all avenues of support and guidance. Studying your opponent - knowledge is power.
Good self care !
Good luck

She just can't help her selves, caught me when fetching a cup of coffee and again invited herself to the holiday I have planned with the girls in the summer. I told her no about 5 times before GC, who was in the next room, came in and started shouting at me that if her mum isn't going she isn't going either. I am now so wound up again and supposed to be in a meeting shortly. I am waiting for my solicitor to get back to me regarding the other issues that happened lately and I need to make a plan with her, not just a short term plan but as I said in my earlier post, a plan for winning the war. But I will need to remove myself from this environment as I am really suffering now and struggle to hold my MC and noJADE.

May you have peace.

Hi folks! This thread has gotten to five pages so I'm going to lock it per our guidelines. Feel free to start a new thread!