Setting boundaries and getting abuse

[momnthefog]

These were great videos.  Thanks for sharing them!

momnthefog

[Fedup2020]

Those videos have given me so much strength. I have been watching them when I go to bed. It has helped me in other areas too.

An update to the situation though. I reached out and told her she could still come for contact, but no overnight. I realised I would have been reacting emotionally rather than actually ready to end contact. (Thanks to the videos). She said she was shocked I was willing to have contact after what she had said but understood the overnight and that she would stop asking for it.
It lasted a week and now she has started again.

Once again it is I who is pushing her to do these things for not allowing her to have overnight and treating her differently to my other kids. The only thing different is that they live here and she doesnt. She doesnt because she was hell bent on not living here and deliberately kept doing things to be put into care. (She would openly admit that was what she was doing at the time). The police told me if I took her back, I'd risk losing my other kids, so it wasnt that I handed her over to children services because I'd had enough. Even though I had had enough.

Anyway. Shes trying hard to manipulate here. Even threatening to end contact with me. So I reminded her that if she does end contact, it's her choice and on her. Not me. I havent ended it. She has. I've told her I'm not discussing overnight anymore, and that I will tell her when I am ready for it. Apparently this is me messing her about and not taking her mental health into consideration. As she plays on my mental health telling me she has been patient with me for years. Patient with what I dont know. Its crippling anxiety I have which does not impact the level of love and care I give.

It has been the other way around. I have put up with so much abuse from her, its unreal.

I want to remind her so much that it was just last week she wanted me to die. She seems to forget all of the horrible stuff she says and does and expects people to just move on instantly.

Also bare in mind that she is in hospital AGAIN after taking tablets. Again. The whole reason I am uncomfortable with overnight contact!

[Fedup2020]

I also want to add that the videos have helped with disengaging. Not taking things personally is getting easier. Instead of staying all worked up over it, its slowly pushing me away. I still am being affected as it's happening, but I can quickly get over it and I definitely am not feeling a need to defend myself anymore.

I dont think I have much left in me at all to continue this kind of relationship though.

[Fedup2020]

After saying she doesnt want to see me anymore, she is now asking if she can come over. I honestly cant keep up with the flip flopping moods.

I'd rather she just hated me completely. All of the time.

[Fedup2020]

It was all a ploy to have another go at me.
It was the final straw for me. I've told her I am done and blocked her. Told her if she wants contact with her siblings to speak to the staff and we can arrange something but I am finished.

I cant take it anymore. I really cant. She gives me crap and then blames me for it but fully believes that I deserved it and I brought it on myself. She never accepts responsibility for her own actions. I'm sick of it.

[momnthefog]

The police told me if I took her back, I'd risk losing my other kids, so it wasnt that I handed her over to children services because I'd had enough.

This is why I suggest to parents with other kids in the house (especially younger ones) to prioritized protecting those kids who can't chose to leave.

No parent wants to chose between children.  Our hearts and souls were not designed like that....but you are literally on a life raft with limited space.  Your duaghter's life raft is within reach but she consistently refuses to reach for it...instead she grabs and pulls at yours, tries, to push you and other others off.

She has no right....and those on the raft with you deserve safety and protection from the storm.

I"ve been there....I've had to chose to walk away from toxicity.....it's the most difficult and also the most freeing decision I've made as the mother of a PD adult child.

Hugs!

momnthefog

[momnthefog]

Told her if she wants contact with her siblings to speak to the staff and we can arrange something but I am finished.

Suggest that contact with siblings (especially if they are minors) be based on the younger kids desires.  Otherwise she is likely to manipulate and triangulate them against you. 

momnthefog

[Fedup2020]

I'm expecting her to refuse contact with them as a way to punish. She has done this in the past when she has refused to see me, she refused to see them too. The only thing she wanted to see was my dog. Which this time round is a definite no, no matter what.
It will be contact with her siblings only, and never at my home.

You're right about the manipulating and triangulation. Hopefully if and when contact does happen between them all is okay.

Thank you! I am sorry you had to do the same, but it is nice to know that somebody understands.

[PeanutButter]

I'm expecting her to refuse contact with them as a way to punish. She has done this in the past when she has refused to see me, she refused to see them too. The only thing she wanted to see was my dog. Which this time round is a definite no, no matter what.
It will be contact with her siblings only, and never at my home.
You're right about the manipulating and triangulation. Hopefully if and when contact does happen between them all is okay.
Thank you! I am sorry you had to do the same, but it is nice to know that somebody understands.

Hi fed. IMO YOU ARE DOING GREAT! I know it doesnt feel like it. She is use to her tactics breaking your will. So she will probably continue to test and try for some time. Stand your ground. Remember you are being a good mother when you do this. It is in her best interest that you dont cave to her so she unlearns trying to get her way this way.

It was all a ploy to have another go at me.
It was the final straw for me. I've told her I am done and blocked her. Told her if she wants contact with her siblings to speak to the staff and we can arrange something but I am finished. I cant take it anymore. I really cant. She gives me crap and then blames me for it but fully believes that I deserved it and I brought it on myself. She never accepts responsibility for her own actions. I'm sick of it.

This is how you know and I mean deeply know without doubt that discussing anything with her about her behavior or your reasons is fruitless. These are not sensible thought patterns. They are manipulation tactics IME. so blocking her each time she pulls this is the only way I can see you can protect yourself.

I also want to add that the videos have helped with disengaging. Not taking things personally is getting easier. Instead of staying all worked up over it, its slowly pushing me away. I still am being affected as it's happening, but I can quickly get over it and I definitely am not feeling a need to defend myself anymore.

Im so glad you found him helpful. I do too. I watch every day its my 'thearapy sessions'
You can model for her all the new emotional healthy techniques you are encorporating to cope from a distance. This IS what a 'good' mother does. She loves herself. She takes care of herself, knowing that she cant give what she doesnt have.
I cant remember if I mentioned but jerry wise has video "calmness is everything" and "letting everybody around you grow up' https://youtu.be/yN3n3zOA37I
Hang on. Im proud of you. I know it hurts you more to do this than to just give in to her.

[Fedup2020]

Thank you peanut butter. I will check out those videos. I've watched a fair few but I dont think I've seen those ones yet.

I had tried switching off for a few days, but then the phone call came. She is in hospital again after burning bridges with another person who was close to her.
I havent reached out. I've no intention of reaching out. Though I do hope she is okay. It is hard to keep the distance when I know shes back on hospital, but it's a common theme.
It's like a huge distraction to her wrong doing and flipping things so she deserves the sympathy, rather than people being rightfully upset with her.
It feels awful saying that that is how I think of it, but it's a pattern.

No doubt I will be painted as an awful mother once again, by ignoring the fact she is in hospital. I check in with the staff, but that's as far I go.

[PeanutButter]

Thank you peanut butter. I will check out those videos. I've watched a fair few but I dont think I've seen those ones yet.

I had tried switching off for a few days, but then the phone call came. She is in hospital again after burning bridges with another person who was close to her.
I havent reached out. I've no intention of reaching out. Though I do hope she is okay. It is hard to keep the distance when I know shes back on hospital, but it's a common theme.
It's like a huge distraction to her wrong doing and flipping things so she deserves the sympathy, rather than people being rightfully upset with her.
It feels awful saying that that is how I think of it, but it's a pattern.

No doubt I will be painted as an awful mother once again, by ignoring the fact she is in hospital. I check in with the staff, but that's as far I go.

Im sorry for the painful worry you must suffer through each time she has to go to hospital. 
I hope you remain confident in your resolve that to 'be the leader' in this situation is what is best for everyone.
Her opinion and or 'ideas' about what you should do and 'how' you should be are not based on reality since her disorder skewes her perception. IMO you can still empathise with what she 'feels' but not let it change what you 'know' to be truth.
As I see it you cant be awful for ignoring that she is in hospital. You are NOT ignoring it. You called staff and check on her. You are on this forum talking about it. I bet you think about it often too.
IME avoiding talking to her directly is a wise decision at this point. She may just get upset and try to battle with you if you make direct contact.

[Fedup2020]

You're right. I do think about her constantly. Constant worry. Thankfully she is out of hospital now.
Only now she is working on my son. She told him he is excluding her, that he never takes her side and that I have put him in a horrible position.

It's very easy to believe what she says so I just have to hope he remains level headed. Hes not daft, so fingers crossed he sees it for how it is.
I dont know how to handle this. If I say too much about what she is doing, is that then me doing some kind of manipulating. If I dont say anything, is she going to turn him against me.
All I can do is hope for the best.

[PeanutButter]

Im glad shes out of thw hospital.
Depending on the other childrens ages i would limit her contact with them if she uses the calls to manipulate and triangulate them.
If your son is old enough to decide himself IMO I would tell him that he has a right to hang up when she starts saying things that upset him. And he has the right to not take the calls. He doesnt have to tell her why he cant talk. He can say hes to busy or too tired to talk if he wants to tell her a reason.. This way he can get out of it.
Remember that if it upsets you to listen to her say the things she says, your children will experience the same. They may IME feel obligated. They have been watching you over the years and plus she tells all of you that you are all obligated to put up with her. NONE OF YOU ARE OBLIGATED TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE WHO IS EMOTIONALLY AND VERBALLY ABUSIVE!

[Fedup2020]

100% agree. I'll have a chat with him if and when she starts again. I honestly dont believe he would allow her to keep it up. I think a lot is my own worries and fears that she will turn him against me.

I think me not stopping contact with them, and leaving that ball in her court will be an eye opener.
She told my oldest son that she wants to see them all, but she cant. He simply asked when she would like to see them and she said she doesnt know.
That's when she tried telling him he was put in an awful position.

Ideally for her, I think, would have been me saying no contact between them so she could use that against me. Only I didnt and so she cant. It's down to her choosing to maintain that relationship with her siblings, or not. Neither of which is in my control so cant be pinned on me.

Hopefully things remain quiet for a while longer before the next blow. I am already seeing an improvement in myself. My appetite has increased and I havent had a migraine. I suffer badly from them and i think this is the longest period of time I've gone without one.
I dont know if the migraines were connected, but it's really strange that I've not had one.

[PeanutButter]

100% agree. I'll have a chat with him if and when she starts again. I honestly dont believe he would allow her to keep it up. I think a lot is my own worries and fears that she will turn him against me.

I think me not stopping contact with them, and leaving that ball in her court will be an eye opener.
She told my oldest son that she wants to see them all, but she cant. He simply asked when she would like to see them and she said she doesnt know.
That's when she tried telling him he was put in an awful position.

Ideally for her, I think, would have been me saying no contact between them so she could use that against me. Only I didnt and so she cant. It's down to her choosing to maintain that relationship with her siblings, or not. Neither of which is in my control so cant be pinned on me. 

This is such a good idea of dealing. She will show her true nature to her siblings you need not say anything about her.

Hopefully things remain quiet for a while longer before the next blow. I am already seeing an improvement in myself. My appetite has increased and I havent had a migraine. I suffer badly from them and i think this is the longest period of time I've gone without one.
I dont know if the migraines were connected, but it's really strange that I've not had one.

Absolutely I use to get stiff necks (i mean very painful) and I now KNOW that upset and stress was causing it.  /quote]

[Fedup2020]

It's amazing how it can affect us physically as well. It doesnt sound believable. I'm glad you managed to get some relief from the pain in your neck too

[Fedup2020]

So the past couple of days she has been using her siblings to get to me. Stupid messages to the younger one to ask about a song...which I couldnt remember what one she was talking about. She kept asking until I said to my son I dont know and I'm busy so just leave it. She didnt like that, so blocked him for a while.
Shes now trying with my older son.

Asking him to ask me things and stuff and huffing and puffing when I dont respond how she wants. Shes a bit more blunt with him and says things like I should have aborted her and stuff and how I hate her.
I have explained to him that he doesnt need to listen to it, he doesnt need to engage in the conversations especially when she is clearly looking for an arguement.

It seems she is starting more with him now that she cant get to me which is awful. If it happens again after this time, I will have to speak to the staff.

I dont know if it's part of her plan to get in moods with them because of me, so that I take them out of the middle and put myself back in the frontline for her to get me directly.
It's just odd things shes asking them to ask me. Then to go in a mood and block her brother because I couldnt remember which song she was talking about, no matter how many different ways she tried to describe it. It was pointless to go on the length of time she did when it was obvious I had no idea.
It was also no fault of her brothers, but it had him asking me if I was sure I couldnt remember because now she has blocked him. So to him, in a way, it could seem like he was blocked because of my poor memory. Which is ultimately my fault.
Thankfully she unblocked him, but that worry will be there with him next time she asks him to ask me something.

Argh the frustration

[PeanutButter]

I really hate to hear this for your sons mental/emotional well being.
I hope you can really try to emotionally detach (unenmesh) from her, her thoughts, and her emotions. Once you start to model a better coping mechanism to her behaviors your sons will follow your lead.
It seems like your son would have been better off if she had not unblocked him. How did he know he was blocked?
I would strongly suggest not engaging with her for them also. What you are getting is what you will continue to get. It doesnt matter why she wanted to know about the song. I would not try to 'folllow' a disordered person's thinking. I would humbly suggest you already know why shes doing these things. It is her disordered mind. That is not going to change. Even with the treatment shes still not getting better.
What are your expectations of her? Does she know what your expectations are?
If you are hearing all of her words and noises (huffing, puffing) expressing her frustration when your son tells you, this has the same effect as you talking to her imo. Imagine the effect on your sons. Your sons only have had one model of how to deal with her. If its not working for you it will not work for them.
Cant YOU block her from talking to any of you?
Imo i would not put my other children as a shield between her and you. I would shield them from her.

[Fedup2020]

Honestly, if I knew of the best way to block her from contacting any of us, I would. I just dont know how to do it.

My younger son knew she had blocked him as he could no longer contact her during their conversation.
If I tried stopping him talking to her he would find new ways.
Do you have any ideas on a different way?
All I feel I can do at the minute is explain what she is doing when she is doing it, how it's not right or acceptable. That I wont accept it anymore and they shouldn't accept it either.

I'm going to hit up more Jerry wise videos about unmeshment.
Thanks again peanutbutter

[momnthefog]

Honestly, if I knew of the best way to block her from contacting any of us, I would. I just dont know how to do it.

My younger son knew she had blocked him as he could no longer contact her during their conversation.
If I tried stopping him talking to her he would find new ways.
Do you have any ideas on a different way?
All I feel I can do at the minute is explain what she is doing when she is doing it, how it's not right or acceptable. That I wont accept it anymore and they shouldn't accept it either.

To block her from all numbers set up an account with your cell provider and input her number.  It might take some looking through their website to find "block numbers."  my provider has a block from all phones option.

The other option is for each to block her individually as your son has done.

Are you familiar with the term "flying monkeys?"

It's a reference to the movie the Wizard of Oz....when the bad witch sends her flying monkeys to harass Dorothy and her friends.  Using that analogy with your children might help them see how big sister is using them to get to you.

If you are in family therapy, it might be helpful to enlist the assistance of the T to help guide the younger ones.....older sister is sick....she needs time to get well....when she is sick causes tension and stress....when she is sick she uses other people.....or something like that. 

I'm so sorry, she's now using the others but hopeful that they will come to understand the situation as best they can given their age.

momnthefog