Experiences in the IDD cycle and the drama triangle’s relationship.

[StartingHealing]

 

SonOfThunder,

Sending you all the best as you start your transition to a more peaceful life.

Thank you StartingHealing! 🤛🏼

SoT

[SonofThunder]

What is your plan now SoT? Where are you staying, with friends or at a hotel? Hope you are not on your own and have some support.

EM, i have a small rental property in a town nearby and the original renters are not there any longer, so it was immediately available for me, which is where i am now living.  I am fully moved out of the marital home and will be proceeding forward toward divorce per the laws of the state in the US, in which i reside. 

Thanks for your concern and support,

SoT

[SonofThunder]

Hello Comrades,

My thoughts for today, less than two weeks out from my departure: 

-I have to constantly remind myself that I am actually the victim.  My stbx hustled over and settled onto to the victim side of the triangle in the minutes following her emotional circus that ended in my declaration that I was through.  Almost two weeks out, my mind and heart aches even greater with that feeling as if i abandoned my own child.  I dont enjoy replaying the recent confrontation events or even thinking back over the decades, but it helps me refocus my mind regarding the TRUTH that a disorder, and it's very ugly traits, have been in play in my life for so long, and that I have endured my stripes, but that it now time to heal.  I don't desire to actually play the victim, as doing so is never enjoyable nor desired, and in this time of forward movement to divorce will not work in my favor, but i WILL continue to strengthen myself by telling myself the truth. 

-Its quickly back to the IDD PD discard status quo, but now separated.  It didnt take long at all.  My stbx's communications have been either straight business-like, such as "SoT will you help me with something tech related that will assist me living alone?"  or a benign social media style communication (her experiences in daily living) such as a random text to me of a nesting bird with eggs from the home and a comment "i count x number of eggs", which is right back to where they have been since I got off the IDD hamster wheel.  She interjects comments related to her being 'victim' and is selling her victim mode to her friends, as i have become aware of the recent hyper-activity with all of them, in outings, as my stbx tells me of her frequent get-togethers with an array of lady friends, which is a PA way of saying to me "Ive got an army of caring friends who think you're an asshole, and know I've been wronged by you, and you SoT are just doing your same selfish stuff alone".  Im back to business-like 'indifference' in the D of discard and in her mind, i am parked on the persecutor side of the triangle, for a long while. 

-Hypocrisy leads the way.  This new separation-to-divorce situation is revealing buried hypocrisies from the past, and being unearthed again, is more solid reminders to stay calm and focused on my forward progress.  For example, stbx is now discovering that some issues are a real pain in the ass for her, and she has complained to me that "everything is in your name! 😩😡 SoT, i cant get anything changed because you need to authorize it and its frustrating!"   But decades ago it was "SoT, im too busy to take care of getting that done (account, mortgage, credit card, utility...and so on), will you take care of it for us? 💋".  #victim #hypocrisy

Onward!

SoT

[escapingman]

SoT, I know you want to be kind and help STBX with things. But don't you think that's a trap? Same with her telling you about all her outings with her friends. Have you considered a lower contact with her? Please be careful and don't let her drag you back into her drama.

[SonofThunder]

SoT, I know you want to be kind and help STBX with things. But don't you think that's a trap? Same with her telling you about all her outings with her friends. Have you considered a lower contact with her? Please be careful and don't let her drag you back into her drama.

Em, thanks for your concern 😃.  At this time, im not sensing any traps to lure me into drama.  We went through this before a few years back during a short separation where i was forthcoming on the length of time away I desired in order to regroup and analyze the marriage. 

During that event was when her fear of abandonment (foa) was devastating on her.  After that event, she stated to me that she was "never going to experience that feeling again" (she is obviously not aware of foa as a term), and 1 year later, when our relationship went back to the status quo, she told me she was going to "do what she needed for herself from there forward."  It was at that time, when she moved to the D of discard, spending a ton of time on her devices and flipping screens when i walked into the room and in general, being an inconsiderate 'roommate'.

Since i did not respond, but rather proactively lived in indifference toward her attempts to PA discard me (visible discard), her actions became regular habit.  I have not seen any foa from her except for the emotional circus ride event around the triangle & IDD from 2 weeks ago.  Shes been all business since then and one time, i commented about the awkwardness of some necessary interactions we must have over shared assets and she said flippantly, "I'm WAY beyond awkward". 

This time is just different than the separation from years back.  Again thanks for your concern and surely the feelings of abandoning one of my own children is very strong and mentally exhausting, but time will work through this.  Im not going into any PD drama but i will proactively love her, whether she likes it or not (desiring and potentially facilitating what is most beneficial for her).  Leaving her tech-helpless for example is imo, not loving and I'm glad to help her in the transition with certain areas of my experience, knowledge and capability.  It also helps me mentally to proactively love. 

Cheers my friend,

SoT

[notrightinthehead]

I think you are doing a great job helping your 'child' individuate. At the end of the day, you have to look into the mirror and like what you see. It does not matter what others think, you have to think that the person in the mirror is someone you think highly of and respect.

[SonofThunder]

I think you are doing a great job helping your 'child' individuate. At the end of the day, you have to look into the mirror and like what you see. It does not matter what others think, you have to think that the person in the mirror is someone you think highly of and respect.

Thank you for the kind words NotRight. 😃

I fully agree that for my mental health and soul-searching self acceptance, I must do, what i must do, and as you well stated, "think that person in the mirror is someone you think highly of and respect".  I appreciate your encouragement. 

SoT

[falsebalance2]

I think you are doing a great job helping your 'child' individuate. At the end of the day, you have to look into the mirror and like what you see. It does not matter what others think, you have to think that the person in the mirror is someone you think highly of and respect.

At the end of the day - they aren't our children! They are grown adults.


Today I have come to realize at least for my situation - there is a great amount of freedom when I realize my updh doesn't love me. Is incapable of the very idea. Blinded by his love for himself - he only sees himself - and therefore all of his behavior will be centered around that. The good he does is done for himself. And for me to expect him to be able to meet any of my needs is almost cruel and flat out ridiculous at this point.

Likewise the bad he does is about himself and not me.

That filled me with compassion but removed the burden. When I can hold that reality close - I can separate the feelings of guilt and abandoning a child and realize his selfish parents did that to him long ago - and I have loved him and will continue to love him the best way for us both. And signing up for endless PD games and drama and caretaking isn't love - it is playing into a delusion....and sending them a message their behavior holds limites consequences. Also after experiencing his parents cruelty myself - why would I sit in the mess they made any longer? I don't like those people. This isn't my guilt. It is rightfully theirs. This is their failure, not mine. And that is another layer of cruelty of abuse - someone else continues to pay the price for what those people did to a human. And sadly it appears our PDs will carry the torch.

Her friends over time will see this, SoT in my experience. And if any of them are somewhat healthy - they will distance themselves. Those with their own issues will stay.

I'm amazed at your patience and being able to show kindness and empathy for someone who wouldn't be capable of doing so for you for the same reasons/motivations.

I hope you are enjoying your sense of peace. You didn't create the chaos!

Also praying your adult children find some time to reconnect with you and enjoy getting to know you without having to manage someone else's poor behavior cycle! 

[SonofThunder]

Falsebalance2,

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.  As you stated, it will be interesting to witness my stbx's friends and their bonds, as we progress toward divorce.  Thank you for reaffirming the facts that i did not create the chaos.  Although, I surely played my part in enabling the PD behaviors to flourish by giving my spouse a wide operational berth in past decades, by my own traits of caretaking. 

When the caretaking stopped, the IDD cycle and drama triangle roles became very obvious and the stress levels for me became much higher.  Although 'knowing' (vs unknowing) is a huge factor for me in dealing with the chaos and stress, but nonetheless very difficult to navigate. 

Im both sad for you in your new realizations that true love is a facade in your relationship, but joyful for you in the knowing, understanding and acceptance.  As you well stated, there is great freedom in the awareness of the realities in our lives.  I wish you the best as you march steady forward along the trail we at Out of the FOG all walk together.

Again, thank you for the support.  It is a joy to have comrades.

SoT

[SonofThunder]

As an update, I have declared to both children that i do not intend to share details of arguments over the years with their mother in an 'offense' position, to smear her or position myself in a victim mode. 

But rather, if they were made aware of 'offense' discussions from their mother, smearing me or playing the victim herself by twisting truth, i will gladly operate in 'defense' mode, so our children have both sides of those accounts, so they can decide for themselves regarding what they have heard. 

So today, my stbx unloaded on my daughter and my daughter contacted me to ask questions regarding.   Let the truth war begin.   In the meantime, i am enjoying relative peaceful living by myself in our rental property in the town nearby. 

Time will tell.

SoT

[escapingman]

I am glad to read you have peace. Stick to the truth and you should be fine, remember the truth is on your side. My STBX is heavily smearing me at the moment, that will fail within  circle 2, circle 3-5 I don't really care as I don't have much to with them and she has very little in common with my friends (and they would never side with her).

Good luck SoT.

[SonofThunder]

I am glad to read you have peace. Stick to the truth and you should be fine, remember the truth is on your side. My STBX is heavily smearing me at the moment, that will fail within  circle 2, circle 3-5 I don't really care as I don't have much to with them and she has very little in common with my friends (and they would never side with her).

Good luck SoT.

Thank you so much for your support EM ☺️   Yes, i agree on the circle relationships.  My stbx is airing her twisted versions of our "dirty laundry' to our adult children in true hypocritical PD fashion and they are so confused, because they just cannot understand how I can be the way their mother describes.  I had my first meeting with my daughter yesterday and my eldest next week when he returns from travel with his wife.

I have never been much much for pen and paper, but when the Blackberry came out in the latter 90's (hard to type on that small device) and then the Palm Pilot (much better), i began my journaling.  When Mac OS began including Apple Mail in their software (2003?), recognizing that their was a cyclical pattern to the turmoil in my marriage (but still deep in the FOG until about a decade+ later), and having been threatened with divorce if i don't comply with suggestions for my to-do list on 'how to improve my marriage', i began to purposefully email my concerns to my wife and telling her that writing was best for me, and kept the home arguing quieter for the kids. 

I never intended to resurrect these writings, but will need to share some of it with my children for historical context in order for them to understand what they are hearing from my stbx and understand my motives of peace in walking out on their mother. 

We fight in this truth-war battle together EM, in a totally foreign land in which is not familiar to us, but armed with truth. Truth will prevail.  Peace lies ahead EM.  Press forward with me comrade!

SoT

[SonofThunder]

To all who walk this path with me here at Out of the FOG; my wonderful comrades; i hope you may benefit from my failures and experiences. 

Yesterday, I gave the detailed, difficult truth to my adult daughter regarding my experiences (in defensive mode) to the details my stbx already shared with her. My daughter was blown away at the hypocrisy of my stbx and twisting of the details to smear me and paint my stbx as the victim.  My daughter stated that originally, my stbx's stories didnt make sense based on how my daughter has known me to be over the decades, and that my truth finally made sense and validated these things for her, in alignment in her heart and mind.  She thanked me immensely and stated that she is now able to determine for herself, what is truth.

But, my eldest; my son, is my stbx's GC (golden child) and he is unfamiliar with personality disorders (my daughter is educated by me years ago regarding PD because she needed toolbox training to protect herself in college) and his experiences as the GC are different than hers.   

After hearing my explanations, my daughter said to me sternly: 

"SoT....you are protecting our mother by not disclosing the truth thus far, and we need to hear it!   You are protecting your PD wife at the expense of your children!  My brother needs to know the truth of the past!"  😡

Shes right... 😔. I have tiptoed softly (vagueness) around the harder truths of the past in order to attempt to have a calmer experience for myself.  But, my daughter was, and now my son is, utterly confused and it is eating him emotionally alive;  they need for me to be straight up; no vagueness; no leaving out tough details. 

My daughter was grateful to know the truth-details of the same experiences my stbx twisted, but my son will be absolutely blown away to think his mother, whom he trusts and protects fiercely, will twist truth to benefit her, smear me and capitalize on victimhood. 

I meet with my son this coming week.  Unknowns will be turned to knowns.  Truth will prevail.  Time will tell.  It has been a difficult lesson, but I am proud of my daughter for her needed rebuke of me. 

SoT

[escapingman]

You are doing great SoT. My SG already knows something is wrong with her mum, GC however is completely blinded. Is it that the GC has more difficulty to see as it's easier to coast along being a golden child? If I say anything that GC could remotely could take as criticism about her mum, she flies off the handle and defend her to any price.

Good luck in your truth war SoT, you are an inspiration.

[SonofThunder]

You are doing great SoT. My SG already knows something is wrong with her mum, GC however is completely blinded. Is it that the GC has more difficulty to see as it's easier to coast along being a golden child? If I say anything that GC could remotely could take as criticism about her mum, she flies off the handle and defend her to any price.

Good luck in your truth war SoT, you are an inspiration.

EM, thank you kindly for the encouragement. 

I personally believe the golden child (GC) is utilized by PD's as a human facade to hide behind, as an alibi-person perhaps, who although they reside in relationship circle two, they are treated like a bestie in relationship 4. 

My past experiences with my uNPDf and uPDstbx, is that family members in circle 3, which are parents and siblings, can see more PD trait behaviors than the GC in circle 2.  Having that GC in the home, also allows the PD to use the GC against the GC's siblings in relationship and behavior comparisons, in order to manipulate and confront/condemn the sibling(s) into compliance. 

But the GC can easily take on 'caretaker' roles and behaviors, especially in drama and turmoil, as the PD turns to the GC for emotional support, encouragement, a teammate and a tool.  The GC becomes in the FOGgyness, very quickly as he/she is emotionally pulled in all directions and can become a mediator at times, which is a ton of emotional load. 

My Stbx would frequently utilize my GC son to dance with us on the drama triangle, as she runs to him when shes on the victim side; she drafts him on the team on the rescuer side to double-team me.  Then, if I didn't comply with the new 'higher-bar' rules for marriage improvement, she used the GC to try and guilt me by twisting truths to him, and that im not willing to improve our marriage 😩; and the triangle dance starts all over again. 

In my experiences, the larger, overarching IDD cycle hangs above all (like the Earth's atmosphere) and all the triangle dancing occurs under the changing weather patterns of the IDD that steers the storms, the sunny days, the foggy days and also the raging hurricanes, depending on which part of the IDD my stbx desires to be, to satisfy her inner needs by attempting to coerce her targets under control.

Again thanks EM, we are in this progressing truth-war together.

SoT

[square]

I'm so glad things went so well with your daughter. I hope your meeting with your son also goes well.

You've got this, but I just want to remind you to be careful with your approach to GC son. You have been encouraged by your daughter, but it will be different for your son because as a GC he has bought into the idea that his self worth depends on his relationship with his mother. He may immediately see everything clearly, but he may not, and him considering it may likely push hard against the foundations of how he sees the world and himself.

[SonofThunder]

I'm so glad things went so well with your daughter. I hope your meeting with your son also goes well.

You've got this, but I just want to remind you to be careful with your approach to GC son. You have been encouraged by your daughter, but it will be different for your son because as a GC he has bought into the idea that his self worth depends on his relationship with his mother. He may immediately see everything clearly, but he may not, and him considering it may likely push hard against the foundations of how he sees the world and himself.

Thank you so much square!  I will study what you wrote and apply it mentally to my knowledge of him, and his emotions, expressions and take it slow.  I am not discussing PD with him at all, but will share the truth of my experiences, and as you said, it might cause him to push hard. I will not push back, but let him absorb it at a pace in which he will set. 

SoT

[SonofThunder]

SoT,
I don't have much to add, other than to say, thank you for continuing to post your journey! Sounds like your daughter is wise and thoughtful...I'm glad she responded so well. Eager to hear how things go with your son and what you decide to say. I trust your judgment and know you'll make the right decision!
user

Thanks so much for the support user.  Yes, my daughter's experiences with my uPDstbx are much different than my son.  He has a very good head on his shoulders, but this truth pill will be hard for him to swallow, as he will caught in the middle between two parents he loves, and two sets of conflicting explanations regarding experiences. 

I may introduce him to the conflict/drama triangle, since it is not PD related, and he may be able, from his past to see how he has been drafted into the triangle dance on many occasions, as a potential rescuer to support his victim mother, as she twists reality to have me as the persecutor. 

He may also benefit from the triangle teaching, because it exists in many interpersonal relationships outside of family and in business relationships, where coercion is necessary to obtain a certain goal.  Since its not PD related, it stays well clear of my self-diagnosis of his mother, yet the triangle is professional psychology related and truth. 

I believe he will need some processing time with my added information, but am hopeful he can, for now, retreat to a more neutral stance on the divorce, vs solely a confused supporter of his victim mother. 

Again, thanks to you and everyone here for their support. We meet on Wednesday and I will surely give a report on this thread. 

The only other thing to report is that my stbx has now posted some new quotations on an app she uses, that are PA directed at me, since she knows I use the app for collecting ideas that are helpful for my personal hobby interests and will see her newly added quotes.  The good thing is that the quotes are about recognizing and moving on from toxic relationships and realizing that what a person thought they had in a relationship, was not the reality.

I fully understand this is PA=passive aggressive behavior, further D=discard on the IDD and Victim on the drama triangle, but generally is good imo, as I know her support team of women friends are steering her to move on, and her posting these quotes is also visible to them as the are friends on the app.  Therefore to try and attempt to turn the crashing divorce ship around, will require her to about-face on her friends and her posted quotes that align with their support, and she is going to look weak in front of her peers. 

Full steam ahead my uPDstbx! 

SoT

[SonofThunder]

Hello comrades,

I will post here as it relates to the IDD cycle and drama triangle experiences, but have started a new thread in the Separating and Divorce board, named 'Experiences in my separation and divorce: Part 1'. 

Please join me there if you desire to follow along in this experience.  See you around the boards and campfire chats along the Out of the FOG trails we journey together. 

SoT

[Mary]

As an update, I have declared to both children that i do not intend to share details of arguments over the years with their mother in an 'offense' position, to smear her or position myself in a victim mode. 

But rather, if they were made aware of 'offense' discussions from their mother, smearing me or playing the victim herself by twisting truth, i will gladly operate in 'defense' mode, so our children have both sides of those accounts, so they can decide for themselves regarding what they have heard. 

SoT

That sounds like wisdom, SoT.
Praying for you,
Mary