Trying to Understand-- Do PD Parents Ever Work in "Helping" Professions?

atticusfinch · April 02, 2019, 11:15:40 AM

I have had this debate with my dad and I'm trying to understand it better. My NPD mom is in a pseudo "helping" profession, which sometimes throws me off as to what her motives are. In her case, I think it's about money, control (because she works with kids), and societal acceptance. I have a hard time recommending her service to people because I know that she can be harsh once she gets comfortable with someone.

My dad thinks that PDs wouldn't normally be in helping professions, such as nursing, education, etc, but I disagree. Some of my kids' teachers over the years have been quite narcissistic.

JustKat · April 02, 2019, 02:47:27 PM

My NPD mother wanted to work in professions where she would be "respected," but she was never able to hold down a paying job because she refused to take orders from anyone. Every time she started a job she'd walk out after a week and play the victim for being ordered around unfairly. At one point she went to school to be a medical assistant and took an entry-level job that lasted only two weeks because she was treated like ... entry-level.

She then tried to start her own business where she could be the boss and brag about being in charge, but she had NO idea how to run a business and it eventually folded (and I was blamed for not helping her enough).

After that she volunteered at her local police station. That one worked out well for her. She got a badge and waved it in everyone's face saying that she had "respect." She also did other volunteer things, like being president of her community's Homeowner's Association, a position where she could bully people, enforce rules, and again, be "respected."

So in the case of my NPDmother, she was more interested in bossing people around than helping them. She did want to be a nurse, but she always said that people in the medical profession were respected (especially doctors, who she envied for their wealth and position) so I don't think helping people was her main goal with that schooling.

I HAVE spoken to other people with Nmother's who have told me their NM is a therapist. That one scares the heck out of me.

Associate of Daniel · April 02, 2019, 03:06:36 PM

One of my pds is very much a dot the i and cross the t person.

I've never known her to be in a helping role unless it was to fill an organisational position. Eg: team manager of her stepchild's sports team.

There she can practise her ocd tendencies at the same time as getting the attention her pdness demands.

(Although her need for attention can never be fulfilled. People aren't thankful enough and don't talk to her at every game.)

Her everyday job is in finance.

The other pd used to be very good at his job which involved a lot of cad work. But his irrational, paranoid thinking has, I suspect, caused his role to change.

I've never known him to be in a position of caring for other people's emotional or physical needs. Even as my H, he wasn't good at it and usually ran in the other direction.

AOD

Call Me Cordelia · April 02, 2019, 03:07:10 PM

Oh, yes. Education at all levels is full of narcs. Medicine, too. The "helping" professions have a little of the aura of sainthood around them in our society. You know Ns eat that up. And teachers have power in their little worlds. In the classroom they are the only superior, everyone else is beneath them and they call all the shots. N heaven.

I had one narcissistic teacher in particular with a "cute" sign that read: "This is not a democracy, this is my kingdom."

She was especially fond of giving arbitrary punishments and graded harder on the students she didn't happen to like. Everybody knew it. But the administration liked her and she got away with it. Other N teachers live for popularity with their students.

Duck · April 02, 2019, 06:18:11 PM

Reading this forum has been interesting for me. I see there are more NPD parents in the world than I realized! My dad was diagnosed with OCPD. I personally believe he also has BPD traits. He is capable of empathy.

It is a bit of a roller coaster. He can reach out to someone in empathy, bite my head off and get in an argument with a stranger all in half an hour.

One time, he came home, packed a lunch, and went out again to look for a beggar he saw to make sure she had food. I believe he really felt empathy for her. I think he is capable of both good acts and bad acts.

From what I have read here, Ns seem particularly selfish. Between personality disorders, there might be some variability, as well as differences between people with the same personality disorder.

My dad was not in a helping profession, but I could see him in one. He volunteered as a deacon at our church and visited sick people. He was generous to people in need, and he was a good youth athletics coach.

StayWithMe · April 02, 2019, 08:29:01 PM

My grandfather was pretty manipulative and he was a minister.

alphaomega · April 03, 2019, 11:38:05 AM

Ohhh yes oh yes they most assuredly do.

NPDM was a nurse.
Gave her full access to all sorts of NPD supply.

If you want to read about an extreme case - read about Jane Toppan.

Psuedonym · April 03, 2019, 01:32:37 PM

It actually has it's own category: Communal Narcissism. Here's a link to Kris Godinez because she's awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWaKdINGlrw

fixingtofix · April 04, 2019, 07:47:38 PM

My uNPDMIL and uPDFIL worked at a career center for disabled adults and according to them, "ran the whole show". If there was a way for them to help people out and look grand, they took it. They also claim that they did unemployment career counselling during the recession of the early 1990s. They were laid off and applied for unemployment and when they went for the job training classes, they knew more than the teacher, and started teaching them. Oh, okay.

The best part about this all is they have a disabled child who could very well live on her own (with help) but they won't even let her learn to use the computer, because she's not able to process it with her "disability".

SIL functions just as well as the people they helped get jobs for at the career center so I think they hold on to her as a martyr trophy, if that makes sense. "Look at all the good they do for their daughter!"

Some One · April 05, 2019, 08:42:43 AM

My Nmother is a Respiratory Therapist. She only went into this field to get a job in case something ever happened to my father (when they were married).

GCBro, who has a lot of Ntraits like Nmom is an Emergency Medicine Doctor. I never heard him elaborate as to why he wanted to go into this profession, but my brother is all about prestige and being better than everyone else. At one point he joked about the possibility of not doing well on the MCAT and if that were to happen (which it NEVER would) he would "settle" and go to law school. When he decided on going into Emergency Medicine it was because it allowed him to work shift work (like a nurse), so he could work as little as possible, like 3 days a week. That's right people...it wasn't, because he wanted to save lives!

Starboard Song · April 05, 2019, 08:56:29 AM

The one in our lives worked in a helping job. Seemed to live for a crisis, so she could go into emergency mode. She felt happiest, and most secure -- it seemed to me -- when there were people in need so she could help.

And she did help: it wasn't manipulative or self-serving.

I think it is an important lesson that these people aren't evil: they are hurting, and their behavior is a tactic they use to deal with their hurt. If they can compulsively do good instead of evil to deal with their hurt, I am all for it.

Call Me Cordelia · April 05, 2019, 04:57:52 PM

Quote from: Starboard Song on April 05, 2019, 08:56:29 AM
The one in our lives worked in a helping job. Seemed to live for a crisis, so she could go into emergency mode. She felt happiest, and most secure -- it seemed to me -- when there were people in need so she could help.

And she did help: it wasn't manipulative or self-serving.

I think it is an important lesson that these people aren't evil: they are hurting, and their behavior is a tactic they use to deal with their hurt. If they can compulsively do good instead of evil to deal with their hurt, I am all for it.

Your response has left me scratching my head. I feel like I'm missing something here... Nobody said anything about pwpds being evil on this thread. And doing a job to deal with THEIR hurt sure sounds self-serving, even if it has good effects.

It's completely possible to do good things for selfish reasons. One of the Ns in my family seems to have been an excellent teacher. Won a bunch of awards and stuff. But to hear this person talk about their career, it's all about THEM and THEIR achievements and how creative they were and only they could have turned around such and such student, and how grateful they were... but not a word about the students themselves, no interest in what happened with them after graduation unless they could take the credit. This person probably did do some genuine good. I still don't respect them. If I'm having a heart attack I don't particularly care if my ER doc is only in it for the money and prestige if it means I don't die. I wouldn't call for him to be thrown out of the medical profession, but his halo would be tarnished in my view. I think that's what we're all talking about here.

daughter · April 05, 2019, 06:09:40 PM

I think npd-parents can present two entirely different personalities with great ease, and so can be the respected and dedicated, even empathetic, "helper-professional", and go home, to become the tyrannical controlling angry parent so many of us know so well. Both my parents were capable of doing so, depending on their "audience", depending on their motivation, if their "public-face mode" was required.

practical · April 06, 2019, 08:05:11 AM

Yes, M was a nurse and social worker, both my parents helped others in various ways, were giving people like sharing produce from the garden. Partially they had helper syndrome because of their own abuse (why M married F "to make him happy"), partially I think it was part of their self-image as a perfect person. This is also why acquaintances even friends have such a hard time understanding what I'm talking about, my parents were so nice to others, and even to B and me when they were in a good place. It is all a mishmash of grey shades with the abuse thrown in, no clear black and white.

StayWithMe · April 06, 2019, 01:08:37 PM

Quote from: practical on April 06, 2019, 08:05:11 AM
Yes, M was a nurse and social worker, both my parents helped others in various ways, were giving people like sharing produce from the garden. Partially they had helper syndrome because of their own abuse (why M married F "to make him happy"), partially I think it was part of their self-image as a perfect person. This is also why acquaintances even friends have such a hard time understanding what I'm talking about, my parents were so nice to others, and even to B and me when they were in a good place. It is all a mishmash of grey shades with the abuse thrown in, no clear black and white.

That's like in my situation, my friends would tell me how nice parents are when they called the house and due to other situations ..... in the days of landlines. I always wondered what on earth my parents were doing on the phone to elicit such robust praise. Now I realise how inappropriate their boundaries were regarding me and third party relationships --friends or the men I dated.

Rize · April 17, 2019, 12:58:15 PM

Really interesting thread.
My uNPD mother was a police officer. Most of her ex husbands/partners were also cops. They all shared similar traits.
People that met her (and swiftly realized what sort of person she is) described her as having a 'typical cops attitude', ie, ABOVE the law.

Hilarious as I knew exactly what she was like behind closed doors.

all4peace · April 17, 2019, 03:46:01 PM

I think it's important to realize that humans have many different core fears and core motivations. Behaviors can look very similar but have very, very different underlying motivations. I have an uNBPDm who can be very helpful, genuinely cheerfully and energetically helpful. She was also violent with our father, violent with us, did not once say "I love you," treat us with affection or tenderness. They're all true at the same time. Only my M could truly tell you her underlying motivations, IF she was evolved and self-reflective enough to get to the core of it.

People can work in helping professions to have control, to be loved, to be seen as successful, to be challenged, to be perfectionist, to get out of the house, to make money, etc.

I would assume that a person with personality disorder traits could work in pretty much any profession.

candy · April 20, 2019, 07:11:04 AM

I think this thread is about different questions indeed: do PDs work in helping professions? What reasons are they doing it for? Is it possible their motivation is genuinely good, like one would imagine a true helper - good, helpful, altruistic?

B(2)PDF, not sure whether BPD or NPD as comorbidity as there have been several diagnosed, was a professional helper. A physician, high-functioning in his job and career, working in the field of a specialized therapy for kids and teens. He has been empathetic for his patients, I've seen it myself. He was good with them, caring, even able to find the right words with them and their parents. I remember visiting my PDF at work and thought to myself ,,wow, is that the same guy who doesn't talk and is always so angry or absent at home?"

He often took me and my sibs to work, so we could play with the children who also were patients. It was his idea and he initiated it for the kids in the hospital not to be lonesome. In fact having played with and befriend those ill kids gave me some lessons for life I am thankful for.

The other aspects of his profession sure contribute to his sense of grandiosity. When he talks about his career it is often about how great he did, how he's been better than others, how many he's helped over the years.

But the little ones in pain really got to him, you can sense it when he talks about it. It is the quiet talks, not those for an audience of admirers, I have to add. He really did some good there. And when he was on a high, or manic, he did his good 20 hours a day.

The other side of the coin is also true: There wasn't much left for his wife and kids. Ignorance, even neglect was his personality at the home.
Except when us kids were ill. He then truly cared for us. He also does everything he can in case his grandchildren are sick today. I think it is his switch to normal, the ill children. I have an idea what part of his own upbringing may have contributed to the ill kids being his Achilles' heel somehow. Like Starboard Song described it very well: he could compulsively do good and it wasn't self-serving.

Unfortunately those days are gone, he is becoming an elder now.

But of course my PDF is not ,,just"
NPD but has had different diagnoses from B(2)PD being the most likely, so I am probably not talking about the typical NPD this thread started with.

eternallystuck · April 30, 2019, 05:11:02 AM

Brilliant post !

My npd m has worked in a 'helping' profession all her life in our close knit hometown.

As you can imagine, that smoke screens made it incredibly difficult to prove my M is the nasty vindictive so & so she is behind closed doors.

I know for a fact she's done a lot of smearing behind my back to these ppl she's worked with. Given her work persona, they probably think I'm the most awful ungrateful daughter. It's easier for them to capsulise/gain sympathy or trust from ppl in a helping profession. Boy if they saw her in private, they'd certainly get a shock. She's pushed 2 d's to suicidal thoughts & depression but it's unrelated to her apparently...despite our foo having a history of being fragmented & at war with another.

In fact this was a key factor in her making me doubt my own reality...the fact is Smart NPD's are experts at covert abuse & schisms. Look at me, everyone thinks I'm great- you're the liar!

Behind my back, after ending a friendship with a total user disrespectful friend once, she was messaging them on fb trying to 'help' with their finances.

How interfering & disloyal can you get? Could u imagine me messaging a friend my M fell out with? Wouldn't most ppl find that inappropriate /suspicious?

I saw it as another desperate attempt for her to seize flying monkeys- 'don't worry my daughters horrible' ha!

This is despite me telling her for months this friend was a drug user & not at all bright. She constantly used me & treated me like crap despite her only having 1 other mate. Yes she was struggling but quite frankly this friend has never had it in them to get somewhere. They resented me moving forwards with my life & was always trying to belittle me for not wanting to do drugs or have kids yet.

My m has victim complex syndrome wanting to 'help' everyone, because she's unwilling to truly change herself & so cannot & will not mend the foo she created.

That just shows my NPD m's skewed priorities. She'll put all effort into her work but in private she will run you into the ground..and then SOME. She doesn't give a monkeys about throwing a daughter under the bus

Now don't get me wrong I have plenty of empathy for ppl going through it- at the same time I'm no dummy. I'm a strong believer in choices. I grew up around here & know it's ppl well, hence why I moved away a good while. There's a lot of ppl here who want to drag you down & don't truly deserve help. My m has helped numerous ppl who I know who are bad m's, bullies, thieves, addicts , manipulative & self sabotaging people. But she this weird maternal thirst to prove herself to everyone. I believe in helping ppl, but not those who want money to gamble instead of feeding their kids. There's where me & m differ!