Thought Policing

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I don't think I've ever posted in this section.  This person with NPD behavior is not as outrageous as a few other FOO & partners have been.  But, unlike others, I'm unable to go LC due to certain circumstances and she is in a position to cause me great harm with other valued relationships..  

The passive aggressive sideways jabs, the sidelining and trying to marginalize me within the group (which is the only time we're together), the unpredictable  angry criticism of my character, are all things I've tried to downplay at the time and later in my mind ... trying to pretend to others and myself that nothing's wrong.  But I'm affected.

Dealing with this regularly, more than once or twice a week, as a codependent with a history of pretty severe abuse, makes me feel helpless & inadequate.  It's corrosive to be around.

I practice something like MC, though I'm probably too obliging.  We're both friendly & pretend nothing's wrong between us 90+% of the time, even if she does try to control & limit my self expression & criticize me some during that time. Like who I am is not acceptable and so she barks to try to remind me I'm wrong & keep me in place (as with others who have become total enablers).  My phone conversations with others are listened in on and monitored when I don't know it and the same happens. I don't argue; I just try to smooth it over and move on.  I would never stay involved with this stuff if I didn't believe she would use her leverage to really hurt my life and relationships.

The Toolbox mentions Thought Policing.  That's a big part of it.  It says "you may feel the urge to hide your true feelings, deny your own thoughts to keep the peace...to try to live in harmony...a recipe for loss of self esteem."  This describes me.  I don't change my way of thinking, but I hide it.

It recommends saying "That's just how I think" and trying to agree to disagree.  If that doesn't work, end the conversation.  

I've been trying my best not to tangle with her.  I don't see her as "safe" so I have no inclination to share anything of import.  Her monitoring and control of some others has all but eliminated any meaningful relationship for me with them.  They're deep in the FOG and have no desire to confront the whole thing, and I never even mention it to them.  I can't fix things for them, so that's their business.

I don't really think of what she does as abusive.  She doesn't name-call, just criticize, snap at, & try to control.  But I think it's affecting me much more than I realized.     Any ideas?

[pianissimo]

Hi Lookin 2 B Free

I would never stay involved with this stuff if I didn't believe she would use her leverage to really hurt my life and relationships.

What you describe sounds very abusive to me. This makes me wonder if you are in danger.

I don't really think of what she does as abusive.  She doesn't name-call, just criticize, snap at, & try to control.  But I think it's affecting me much more than I realized.   

Your post reads like an example of cognitive dissonance. You seem to be abused severely, and you describe the abuse, and how bad it makes you feel, but, on conscious level, you don't think of what she does as abusive.

I think coping strategies with PDed people in the toolbox assume you are safe in the situation. If you fear this person might hurt something important about your life, you aren't safe. I think the toolbox would recommend you to leave, and, if you can't, it would recommend you to make sure you keep yourself as safe as possible. To me, it kind of looks normal if you can't maintain or enjoy your friendships. Assuming they don't pose danger to your general wellbeing like this person does, you might want to keep them around for some sort of social protection. Isolation is a step in the stages of abuse, so you could prevent that stage from happening. Also, perhaps finding counselors to talk about your situation might give you ideas about feasible ways to get away from this person.

Hope things get better for you.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

I don't think I explained this very well.  This controlling person doesn't live with me, or have anything to do with me, really, outside of the family group "project.".  Other family members are much more enabling there and under her thumb than I am.  I have some extremely compelling reasons to want to stay with this group effort.  If I didn't, I could easily walk away.  I'm certainly under no physical threat.  I'm wanted for my significant contribution, which I very much desire to continue.

Legally, she has priority over me in terms of saying who gets to stay in this group effort. So I try not to rock the boat.  I will speak up if it's something very important, but it's rare.  It's much like dysfunctional work settings I've been in where the job is very important to me, I love my coworkers.  But the boss is a jerk who has N characteristics and will make you sorry if you cross him.  What's more important?  Getting the N guy out of your life at the expense of your dream job?  Or doing what you need to to keep the career you love at the expense of not saying what your guts tell you you need to say?  I've chosen the latter, but it's not sitting well.

Maybe I need to experiment some in being a little less accommodating, push the envelope some.  Learning to be true to myself has been a long and hard won struggle.  Maybe it's worth some risk to put that higher up in my priorities with this person.  I'll have to give that some thought.

[pianissimo]

Lookin 2 B Free, it's good to hear you are safe in that situation.

Legally, she has priority over me in terms of saying who gets to stay in this group effort. So I try not to rock the boat.  I will speak up if it's something very important, but it's rare.  It's much like dysfunctional work settings I've been in where the job is very important to me, I love my coworkers.  But the boss is a jerk who has N characteristics and will make you sorry if you cross him.  What's more important?  Getting the N guy out of your life at the expense of your dream job?  Or doing what you need to to keep the career you love at the expense of not saying what your guts tell you you need to say?  I've chosen the latter, but it's not sitting well.

What kind of behaviours make the boss feel crossed? Is that their explanation for being critical of you?

In work situations, people in charge become abusive (condescending and criticizing for no apparent reason) when they feel insecure. As an example, I lag in some aspects of my job, and I am good at in others. So, in meetings, if I'm making good points, they usually bring up the parts I'm lagging. It makes me feel bad about myself, but I've learned to view this as their way of putting me in my place. It's possible, you are experiencing something similar. If you are second in command or something, that makes you a potential target for those kinds of people. They are usually bad at working with others, and, if you are good at it, they will both rely on you and resent you. In your situation, it's possible this person has no idea how to coordinate the group effort, and they are actually taking your lead, but that makes them feel insecure, so they are picking on you (undermining you) to show themselves and everybody in the team who is in charge. You might have the true power in that situation (given you love your coworkers), but that person doesn't want you to know that, and they don't want others to view you as better than themselves (because this is how their mind works).

If this is the case for you, I'd recommend figuring out your strengths in the situation. This helps with seeing how that person's abuse is playing out, and it helps with not taking their abuse personally, and also, if there is any step you can take to sustain your situation. You might be doing something quite good to deserve that abuse, and if the abuser doesn't want you to know that, might appeal to condescending and criticizing as a last resort. Your place (or the place of others) in the team might not be as fragile as they make it out to be. Noticing these kinds of manipulations is harder if you are in the thick of it. In my job, when I start doubting myself, I check other people's work, and listen to podcasts, and watch videos, to validate myself.

Of course, this is just one possible explanation.

Hope things get better for you.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

You nailed it exactly, Pianissimo.  The reason for the criticism as she states it?  I'm not like her.  What she is (personality-wise) and what she chooses in any given situation is better than anyone else.  Others should be like that, and they're inferior if they're not.  It's stated that bluntly to me and others.  Very much N-type thinking.  Nothing to rationally address.

I do think I'm seen as a bit of a threat.  I'm very, very different from her in behavior, attitude, and values.  Some other family members (these are not FOO) seem to respect my way of being, ask me for advice at times, and think and behave more like me.  I don't try to get them to do that; it's just natural for them because we are more alike.   And as far as she's concerned this has to be shut down.  They are not to ask my opinion.  Their conversations with me are listened in on so any influence I might have can be squelched.  It's a royal PIA.

I don't like being around all this controlling, N-like behavior.  I had my fill of it from growing up years, romantic relationships, and others while still in the FOG.  It's really irritating to me and it feels like enabling to just tolerate it and not come out and say something.  Not that I'm compliant.  Her confrontations don't change my thinking or behavior.  And I'm not afraid of her other than her ability to oust me from the group.  But I do verbally soothe her ruffled feathers and I let her little rants go un-responded to.  

I think I'd respect myself more and feel more in integrity if I were to be lovingly assertive and honest in my responses instead of placating or just silent.  I don't feel at all competitive with her, nor do I want to see her hurt.  Since this is a family effort rather than a job, and she isn't in a position of authority over me, just a position with more leverage, I think I deserve to treat myself as an equal and quit the placating and hiding.  I know it's possible to do this with kindness, which is what I would want.  Maybe I just need some practice once I get my intentions straight.

[pianissimo]

I relate to how you feel about those who don't stand up for you. I feel the same way in those kinds of situations. But, for me, it still counts if people show up for me in different ways. Perhaps you shouldn't be hard on yourself for not standing up to her every time either. With abuse, knowing your boundaries helps you react in a more helpful way. But, this really depends on the situation you are in. There are different boundaries for different situations. And, we form the new sets as we adapt to new environments. This includes learning the best response for us when someone crosses the new boundaries.

In your case, knowing that you want to be in the team, that you want to be doing what you are doing, and owning your fear for being ousted from the group would help you in deciding how you want to handle the situation in the future.

In the end, how she is behaving towards you isn't your fault, and you can't give the best reaction every time. I think there are multitude of ways for taking abuse personally. This might be one of the ways, that there is a right reaction to abuse, and you are the one who isn't capable of giving that reaction, that, somehow, you are doing something wrong in the situation. I'd say, the right reaction to abuse is to be afraid, or intimidated, or be uncomfortable. And, in these situations, we just do what seems like the best in that instance. We might feel bad about it afterwards because 1-abuse triggers shame 2- we see the situation more rationally without having the feelings of the moment. The other aspect is, there is a trap nature of abuse. We are observed and assessed, and our vulnerabilities are targeted. In the moment, you are reacting against a trap. There is no right way really.

I'm a fan of self-care. Don't be hard on yourself. I think there is no immunity to or perfect protection against abuse. If you receive it, it affects you in some way. Noticing this and taking care of yourself outside the abusive environment could help with dealing with it if it happens again.

In relation to dealing with her, I agree with your initial point that MC would help. I tend to focus on the task at hand when I'm with abusive people, so when they speak abrasively, my mind discounts it as "something irrelevant to the task". Actually, sometimes they become their abusive selves and I end up listening for things that could help with the task, and I notice the jabs at me later. 
Also, healing from past abuse can be helpful too. For example, if you know about the concept of differentiation, you would find it easier to be around angry, even rageful people, or in a tense room (when there is no real danger).

[Lookin 2 B Free]

"I think there are a multitude of ways for taking abuse personally. This might be one of the ways, that there is a right reaction to abuse, and you are the one who isn't capable of giving that reaction, that, somehow, you are doing something wrong in the situation."

You are good, Pianissimo!  I wouldn't have thought of this and it's very helpful in laying off the self-judgment. 

It's especially insidious since one of this person's criticisms is something along the lines of "You are all wimps, unlike me" though in language that's more difficult to counter and object to.

I used to think I was especially tolerant, patient, & understanding.  What I really was was a person in denial about abuse, about my anger around that, and about my worthiness to be treated decently and equally.  My current levels of tolerance and patience are fine, but they aren't being used to excuse others' abuse the way they were.  (And hopefully not at all, though I'm not sure how much, if any, FOG is left.)

I think I'm angry at myself for spending so much of my life (I'm in my 60's) in this awful pattern.  Yes, there were reasons I did, and it's all understandable, and it's not because there's something wrong with me.  But D#MN!  I was in a prison cell with a well-hidden key right there in my reach and it took me 60+ yrs to discover it.   It's beyond maddening.  And I guess I don't want *one more day* of my life to be spent that way.  I have some "coming to terms" to do with my past. 

BTW, what's a good source to learn about differentiation?

[pianissimo]

Glad what I said helped Lookin 2 B Free. That's similar to how I take abuse personally too, I usually assume I'm abused because I'm not strong enough, or haven't done well enough, as if there is an ultimate goal that would protect me if I attained it. But, of course, this is how abuse is justified by the abusers.

I think I'm angry at myself for spending so much of my life (I'm in my 60's) in this awful pattern.  Yes, there were reasons I did, and it's all understandable, and it's not because there's something wrong with me.  But D#MN!  I was in a prison cell with a well-hidden key right there in my reach and it took me 60+ yrs to discover it.   It's beyond maddening.  And I guess I don't want *one more day* of my life to be spent that way.  I have some "coming to terms" to do with my past. 

I listen to podcasts by people who were abused, and a common theme is, past abuse doesn't mean there was nothing authentic about the past. Hope you can find meaning in what you experienced in the past (in the sense that you can make sense of it in a way that brings you peace).

BTW, what's a good source to learn about differentiation?

Self-help books about codependency might be useful.

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Thanks.  My trauma therapist believes getting in touch with my anger is good, that I was in collapse (freeze) before that.  I'd like to be confidently and lovingly assertive.  I've known a few people who accomplished that. 

I'm uncomfortable when I feel weak or when I feel angry, and I just want to get on to what's after that.  But it takes what it takes and shortcuts (usually denial) have not served me well.  I guess it makes sense I'm uncomfortable with those things bc both were soooo unacceptable in my family.  Unacceptable for me to have, that is.  The parents could do and be outrageous, destructive, cruel, or anything else they wanted, without feeling accountable to anyone or anything.   Loving, accountable, yet free -- that's what I hope to someday be!

[pianissimo]

I also think anger is tricky for abuse survivors.

Loving, accountable, yet free -- that's what I hope to someday be!

That's a meaningful goal, I wish you the best!