MIL died

[Hilltop]

Maybe in time you could visit MIL's grave/burial site and say it to her.  Voice it and tell her how horrible she was, take a glass of something nice to toast your goodbye to her and that she can do no harm to your family any more.  Maybe the toasting is too much,  but it's not for anyone else to witness, it's something for yourself, if that would help or whatever else you would find soothing/calming.

Maybe you won't need that closure but holding that in may keep it stuck with you.  Maybe not now but perhaps down the track doing something to close her off from you may help.  It's early days now but within a year, I'm really hoping she is firmly in your rear view mirror.  It will be interesting to see how Xmas 2022 is and how much more relaxed it is.  There is a lot to look forward to with the coming life events that she will not be able dampen.

[Hilltop]

Hey Pepin I was just wondering since your MIL was a lot like mine if you had drama's around recipes and traditional foods.  My MIL would never given me any help or recipes from their native country.  She is a good cook so her help would have been nice.  I have tried online recipes and have struggled to get it right.  Because of this each time I try with DH's native food I simply get frustrated and don't enjoy cooking it as much.  I would like  to be able to get a couple of the nice recipes right so when DH's friends come to visit they enjoy the food.  I gave up trying for many years but recently started trying again.  DH is not being much help.  He knows some things but ingredients always seem to be missing to get it tasting right.  I don't think he does this on purpose I just think he doesn't know or doesn't have all the ingredients his mother uses.

Did you have this issue?  Did you find a way around it?  Just wondering as your MIL was so similar to mine.

[Pepin]

Hey Pepin I was just wondering since your MIL was a lot like mine if you had drama's around recipes and traditional foods.  My MIL would never given me any help or recipes from their native country.  She is a good cook so her help would have been nice.  I have tried online recipes and have struggled to get it right.  Because of this each time I try with DH's native food I simply get frustrated and don't enjoy cooking it as much.  I would like  to be able to get a couple of the nice recipes right so when DH's friends come to visit they enjoy the food.  I gave up trying for many years but recently started trying again.  DH is not being much help.  He knows some things but ingredients always seem to be missing to get it tasting right.  I don't think he does this on purpose I just think he doesn't know or doesn't have all the ingredients his mother uses.

Did you have this issue?  Did you find a way around it?  Just wondering as your MIL was so similar to mine.

This is interesting.  MIL only knows how to cook her native food and makes the same stuff over and over.  I have had no interest to learn her cooking.  I like what I cook and the wide variety of what I cook.  I enjoy my style and am happy that Google can help me out when I need it.  DH on the other hand loved his mother's cooking and well.....much of that has now become a part of the past.  He has tried to recreate some dishes and while they were pretty good, she made no effort to coach him.   

With regards to meals and hosting, I may have mentioned this at some point over the years but it irritated the sheet out of me that DPD CN MIL would try and upstage DH and I when we were hosting a holiday or fancier meal.  We'd ask her not to bring anything over and she wouldn't oblige.  Or if we did ask her to bring something she would go overboard.  And often times what she would bring had nothing to do with what we were serving and that was wrong on so many levels.  Like: we're having steak so she'd bring over fried chicken, too.  I mean WTF.  Every meal we hosted WAS NOT A POTLUCK!  If I did this to my friends I'd have no friends.  DH would talk to her and I knew she was pissed.  She just couldn't handle it that I could cook well.  The other thing she'd do is bring food and tell us it was for later but would have DH eat some of it before we sat down to eat the meal we had prepared.  UGH.  She wanted to fill him up on what she brought.  And I'd also like to ask is it really necessary to show up every single time with food even if just visiting for half an hour?  To me that was incredibly insensitive.  She literally would fry something up and bring it over still hot and then the house would stink.  WHY?!  That ain't love, that's a dirty game. 

So glad those horrific times are in the past...it was such a rude way of her to behave in the home DH and I shared.  It was our pleasure to host but she just had to sabotage it.

[Empie2204]

Hilltop and Pepin,

The food is in many cases one dirty game of showing territorial rights. In my case it was scary because I was not at all interested to fight with my mil over son/husband.

Moreover, my mil was an average cook who brought up her son to be a mama's boy who expects his mama's food forever.
But the food is only a weapon in the power fight. As you mentioned, mils keep their cooking skills as the top secret of the universe.

[Hilltop]

Yep we definitely have the same MIL lol.  .  I can so relate.  I also cook a wide variety of food, MIL only cooks her native food. I am not a natural cook so when I get a good recipe I have to keep it otherwise I could not replicate it later.

It's so interesting about hosting.  The inlaws recently came up and I had the same problem with my MIL however  as I don't normally cook their food a couple of dishes I made wasn't as tasty as I would have liked, which led me down the rabbit hole of remembering why I don't have any good recipes.  MIL has not coached DH either, funny that eh. 

You are so lucky those days are over with.  It's really not pleasant when you try to host and MIL is in the kitchen preparing her food that she bought over, yep that happened to me as well.  Table has all the food out and she is in the kitchen preparing her own for her and FIL.  It just feels so yuck.  They wouldn't even attempt to eat what I had put out until DH almost forced them to.  I mean some of it was really nice and tasty as some of the stuff I have made before and it's yum.  It's from their native country but it's not what MIL cooks so they sat there confused.  Interestingly they gobbled up most of it so I know some of it was ok.  No thanks or anything else.

Thankfully those days are over for you.  Frustrating thing is I am not trying to compete.  I know my MIL is a fantastic cook, I would just like to cook some things which DH would enjoy and other guest.

Empie I so agree.  I think that's why I didn't bother to learn for so many years but now I want to learn some recipes for me.  This time round, I am continuing to try different recipes but it's frustrating when there is someone there who knows and it's something we could have bonded over or had in common, but what am I thinking, a PD would never think like that  .  Interesting that others have the same experience.

[Empie2204]

Hilltop,

it has been proved here that manipulative husbands and mils pop up around the world as clones.

Cooking is their weapon and means that daughters-in-law are not capable and not worthy. Cooking is defined as the supreme virtue. Usually, it is positive that a person knows how to cook but we don´t need to make rocket science out of it.

Hosting is another criterion of DIL's virtues, A dil may have a master´s degree but if she doesn´t cook or doesn´t do the housework the way her mil does, she is worthless.

As for her eating our/my meals, I had the experience you have mentioned: she didn´t want to eat. She tried to be polite and used to say she has already eaten (although we were 100 % sure she hasn´t). Good Lord, as if she was living in the royal castle and was used to exquisite food!

My mil died six years ago but, unfortunately, she molded her son to keep expecting the same treatment, which even intensified after she died. That was one of the reasons I left him. I couldn´t take it anymore.

[Pepin]

Hilltop and Pepin,

The food is in many cases one dirty game of showing territorial rights. In my case it was scary because I was not at all interested to fight with my mil over son/husband.

Moreover, my mil was an average cook who brought up her son to be a mama's boy who expects his mama's food forever.
But the food is only a weapon in the power fight. As you mentioned, mils keep their cooking skills as the top secret of the universe.

  Absolutely!  it is completely territorial.  Idk but I view food as nourishment.  It isn't a contest and I see no reason why people teat it as such.  I really don't buy into that whole food is love garbage.  I eat so I can function during my day and that's it.  Yeah, I make some holiday traditional things but the rest of the year its just a meal.  A meal.  Protein with some veggie sides or whatever.  For DPD CN MIL this was not the case!  It's like food was all she knew and she treated meals as a challenge to see how much she could make and stuff into DH.  No wonder DH was overweight in his youth and has had weight problems his entire life!!!  More is not better.  But in her eyes, it was.  Fat favorite son = we are doing well, in her eyes.  I also believe that for DH when he was younger, that food was a reward for good behavior and helping to get things done, i.e. being a servant.  It will be interesting to see what happens to DH's weight now that she is no longer here.  The only time he was slim was when he went off to college, grad school and some employment and she couldn't feed him...

[Pepin]

Hosting is another criterion of DIL's virtues, A dil may have a master´s degree but if she doesn´t cook or doesn´t do the housework the way her mil does, she is worthless.

I quietly take pride in the fact that my house and yard are better maintained than hers was.  I can out clean and out organize her any time.  I used to cringe looking at her dusty curtains wanting to take a vacuum to them...everything was greasy and dusty in her house and the lighting was minimal so the grime couldn't be seen.  OMG and the smell!  She didn't open windows and the food smells were stomach churning sometimes upon entering.  She just laughed when DH gagged...I have no idea how she lived the way that she did.  Really unsanitary. 

[Hilltop]

Empie you really have nailed it.  You describe it so well.

Omg Pepin your MIL's house sounds awful.  Absolutely yuck.  I am hoping your DH does not continue on with your MIL's games now that she is gone.  I hope he doesn't fall into bad patterns and it will be interesting to see what happens with his weight now that MIL isn't feeding him up.

Also enjoy your future hosting without these games that your MIL played.  I'm sure it's going to feel very different for you.  It will be nice for those times to be peaceful now.

[Pepin]

Today I find myself wondering "what happened" to DPD CN MIL that made her the way that she was while I knew her during the last third of her life.  Looking back over my own life I do understand that I have had various shifts - but I see that what I have gone through was and is consistent with people my age.  I do subscribe to the fact that most people age like fine wines and with DPD CN MIL she seemed to have completely gone the other way.  Seeing images of her younger self just have me pondering all sort of questions because her core that I was familiar with did not resemble at all what I am picking up on in photos.  While I do understand that for some the answer to my original question is: life.  But that seems too general in this case.  Therefore, what really happened to her?  I entered her life during her middle aged years.  Even back then, remembering how she was, it still didn't seem to match up with the younger years images of her. 

Often times we ask survivors, what happened -- and a history carefully emerges if the survivor feels safe sharing.

In DPD CN MIL's case, something had to have happened - and I'm wondering why everyone has been quiet about it over the years?  I'd like to start asking some questions to DH without being too triggering.  Or maybe I just have to let everything go and wait for him to bring things up.  But for whatever reason, all the excuses that were being made for her definitely lend to the question, what happened?

[feralcat]

Hi Pepin. There's a new post by Mustard Seed in the PD parents thread.
My answer to you would be to suggest reading through it, then applying it to your situation. Your MIL might be dead but the dynamic here is the same. And it's very early days since she passed on. Your DH is still in her mind sphere(?).
Please don't ask him about her. Isn't the idea that you all move on to a newer, better, phase - free of her ? MIL free. Talking about her will drag up the past again, for both you him and your kids.
Wouldn't therapy be a more appropriate avenue to explore this ? Until the dust has well and truly settled.

[Pepin]

Hi Pepin. There's a new post by Mustard Seed in the PD parents thread.
My answer to you would be to suggest reading through it, then applying it to your situation. Your MIL might be dead but the dynamic here is the same. And it's very early days since she passed on. Your DH is still in her mind sphere(?).
Please don't ask him about her. Isn't the idea that you all move on to a newer, better, phase - free of her ? MIL free. Talking about her will drag up the past again, for both you him and your kids.
Wouldn't therapy be a more appropriate avenue to explore this ? Until the dust has well and truly settled.

Yup.  Got it.  I will keep my thoughts to myself and let DH share realizations about her when he feels ready.  Before she passed he many times was already questioning who she really was -- and this was confusing because I wasn't sure if he was referring to her "change" as something he was viewing through the lens of a child or as an adult to another adult.  While he was parentified from a very young age, it seems that along the way of him being a parent, he was starting to get tired of this role because we certainly don't require our own kids to be parentified and never would.

That being said, I only knew DPD CN MIL for the last 3rd of her life.  She more or less was consistent with her behavior but was a little bit more accommodating at the beginning.  It seems that all her kids getting married was probably what started the ball rolling.....she was a good grandmother to her grandkids when they were babies and toddlers but after that it felt like she took a turn. 

I think she was overwhelmed with how all the grandkids were maturing and becoming independent -- they are all Gen Z and they collectively figured out their grandma and set boundaries with her.  This left Gen X DH and one other Get X sibling to care for their mother while the two boomer siblings lived their lives far away and hardly visited.  DPD CN MIL just couldn't cope with not being the center of attention so she just kind of gradually cratered on herself. 

She was a woman who was used to taking charge and she just couldn't accept that that part of her life was done.  She was unable to figure out what else to do other than to be annoying and helpless.  After FIL passed, the entire family I think was looking for some kind of reassurance from her that things would be ok and that she would be ok.  She couldn't do this.  That's when I literally felt like I got demoted in her presence and DH became the head male of the extended family that was primarily in charge of his mother. 

It was such an odd dynamic.  I couldn't easily approach him about any of this because he was extremely protective of his mother.  It was devastating for me....instead I focused on me and semi coexisted with DH as best as I could.  I so often felt that if something happened to him, that I would be relieved to have him gone because then I would cut the rest of his family off and be free.  I was so tired of her always coming first for playing helpless and she played this hand to her advantage as she aged. She knew she had DH where I could not.  Now that she is gone I do somewhat have DH -- but not quite like before when we were younger. 

It will take some time.  I hope that our marriage can go off into a new and better direction.  The dust is still settling...and yes I've done therapy for years and I'm looking forward to just "living".   

[Empie2204]

Pepin,
I do hope you and your DH are finally going to have a life of your own. There is truth in saying that we all carry a lot of our parents´  traits but with such MILs (or FILs, sometimes) this is a heavy burden.

I feel great sadness for all of us who experienced this and for our families. I don´t usually whine over my life but whenever I think of it and all the lives lived in the same pattern, I am both sad and angry.

In the past, I, too, used to think about the reasons why my MIL and my H became like that. Then I found out that it is not important at all. Knowing the reasons for being a narcissist doesn´t help in making my life better.  Besides, the passing of time reveals some things.
We cannot enforce understanding. In my case, understanding showed that my marriage could not survive. Enmeshment was too great and I was supposed to become a substitute mother.

Pepin, I hope your husband is stronger than that. Sorry for my bit of depressive tone. There are days like that, and the overall situation in the world doesn´t help.

Just be sensible, use your inner compass and fight for your happiness.

[Pepin]

Pepin,
I do hope you and your DH are finally going to have a life of your own. There is truth in saying that we all carry a lot of our parents´  traits but with such MILs (or FILs, sometimes) this is a heavy burden.

I feel great sadness for all of us who experienced this and for our families. I don´t usually whine over my life but whenever I think of it and all the lives lived in the same pattern, I am both sad and angry.

In the past, I, too, used to think about the reasons why my MIL and my H became like that. Then I found out that it is not important at all. Knowing the reasons for being a narcissist doesn´t help in making my life better.  Besides, the passing of time reveals some things.
We cannot enforce understanding. In my case, understanding showed that my marriage could not survive. Enmeshment was too great and I was supposed to become a substitute mother.

Pepin, I hope your husband is stronger than that. Sorry for my bit of depressive tone. There are days like that, and the overall situation in the world doesn´t help.

Just be sensible, use your inner compass and fight for your happiness.

Yup.....the passage of time....is what I am hoping will reveal things to DH that he just couldn't see while in the thick of it.

And I agree about trying to understand as much as we can and how it can reveal the answer we didn't want to know....this morning I was reminded of how this past Xmas I more or less hit a wall after DPD CN MIL joined us for Xmas dinner.  I went to bed that night feeling exhausted and overwhelmed at yet again having hosted her when I really didn't want her there.  But with DH, he just could't see why she didn't need to be with us because after all she is his mother -- even though he is not an only child, why does it always have to be us that she spends the holidays with us?  Because DH is her favorite and her rescuer and because we do things that she likes.  And that night I just silently sobbed on my side of the bed without making a sound or moving as a I reviewed the day in my head.  The tears just rolled out like I was dead inside and I didn't know they would just happen like that.  DH had no idea that I fell asleep on a sopping wet pillow...

And then the new year began and I had renewed hope that I would continue on setting more boundaries and doing things my way, quietly reminding myself that I can exit my marriage in the near future if I choose if DPD CN MIL is going to live much longer.  And then she passed.  I couldn't believe it. 

I admit that as stressful as things still are, I am undeniably happier and lighter.  I am clearer every day.  My energy has been through the roof.  I am more or less waiting and watching DH for any signs -- if I stay or bolt.  But in the meantime, I am much, much happier.  Its been a long time feeling this way.

[Hilltop]

Sorry your last Xmas ended with you feeling so exhausted and down.  It amazes me how PD's can do that, exhaust you to the bone.  I think for me moving forward this will be one of the first warning signs for me with any new people I meet, am I exhausted after time with them.  You are right that the holidays could have been spread around to other family members to lessen the burden.

Grey rock, medium chill, yes they do work but it is also exhausting to have to monitor yourself and hold yourself back.  To not be able to be yourself in their presence and to be constantly on alert.  I think that's why the day ends and there is such a feeling of being overwhelmed.

Not having to carry that now, no wonder your energy levels are blooming.  By the end of the year you won't even know yourself with all that stress gone. 

[Pepin]

Thanks for all the support as I continue to navigate through this new territory.  It certainly isn't as magical as I hoped it would be.  If anything, it is still somewhat of a lingering wound at this point. 

Her estate won't be finalized until next year.  In the meantime, its been quite a process to close out accounts, liquidate property, clean out her stuff, etc.  The smallest thing could be a trigger for me at the moment even though I have been trying so hard not to let it be.  A piece of mail, a memory, even certain foods just leave me clenching my jaw.  Holidays and other important days for the next year are going to be awkward.  Getting used to having weekends to ourselves has been a big adjustment and I know DH is fumbling a bit trying to find his new normal. 

I have been at a loss for words around DH.....struggling to find the right thing to say or even showing care and concern.  I'm completely numb.  I didn't love her or even really like her.  She wasn't good for me nor was she good to me.  I am so bothered by the fact that I have been damaged by yet another elder in my life.  And of course since she was female, it stings even more. 

I am trying to live in the present....and it will take time to get used to this after having lived in vigilance for so long.  I do love my husband very much but a part of me is just so disappointed with him.  I feel utterly betrayed that he turned the tables on me and put his mother before our marriage and family when our children were young.  I'm now constantly going back in time in my head searching for red flags I missed - and as a way to purge.  How could I have known things would have gone the way that they did?  Yeah, I know it doesn't help to ruminate in the past...but, I just want to learn so that it doesn't happen again to me our anyone on our family. 

I keep feeling like I should have been handed a manual by DH to better understand the dynamics of his family and the cultural protocols -- yet at the same time, I think he didn't know either.  And like a dutiful son, he just did what he was told without ever questioning it.  It is possible that he thought that I was strong enough on my own to handle it however, he never discussed anything with me -- he just did it without asking me.  It wasn't like I was quiet about these changes....and when I brought them up, he essentially silenced me and made me feel like I was in the wrong.  He really believed that by following his mother's wishes that he was doing no wrong....ugh.  I felt like I didn't matter...and that wasn't the page we were on when we got married. 

[Flyingmonkeyswife]

I feel like a horrible person saying congratulations, but I mean, innocent and truly good people die all the time and it's a pure tragedy.  The funny thing is I think about it all the time how my mother-in-law is already in her 70s but I feel like people like her generally tend to live well into their 90s.

I read your post imagining this is me in the future. It's everything that I imagine would happen in our marriage. HUSBAND would have nobody to run to and rescue. He would focus on our family. Holidays would be up to us to decide, not his matriarch mother. Heck, maybe we could even move closer to my home where my family an entire support system are. Just like you, I'm thinking of leaving all the time but I don't want his mother to have access and custody of my baby.
I hate to say it. I really feel like a horrible person, but your post is very inspiring.
But whatever, no I don't feel bad, because if they didn't act that way. If they were supportive and respectful, then they would be sorely missed.

[Pepin]

If they were supportive and respectful, then they would be sorely missed.

Exactly.  She always had an agenda for something rather than just living.  And still no one is talking about her...it has been very quiet.  If she were missed, we would all be sharing fond memories of her.  Having her out of our lives is a welcoming and long overdue peace.