would like to better understand something in toolbox please

[lillylover]

I am wondering about something I was just reading in the toolbox.  I must have read this a good ways back but now after learning more about PDs etc and how I was affected (still am but making progress) I am feeling confused. 

It's about the 50% Rule....

This is what it says:
"The 50% Rule says that we are responsible for 50% of the things that happen in any relationship we share with a person who suffers from a personality disorder.

That is not to say that we are responsible for anyone else's behavior, words or actions. We didn't cause the personality disorders in our loved ones, their behavior or their destructive tendencies. Those are caused by a combination of their own mental illness and their own poor choices.

But in all our relationships, we are responsible for 50% of what happens. We're responsible for our own choices, our own behaviors, our own words and our own actions.

I am confused particularly about what I highlighted in bold. Wondering am I reading this all wrong?  I grew up being made to feel  responsible for the awful abuse from  family members -always made to feel that it was me not them.  I was the SG.  I has taken a long time to learn that none of it was my doing.  I am still working on this plus other stuff.  Can someone help me understand please why am I 50% responsible? How so? Could anyone elaborate please? I would very much appreciate it.

Thank you in advance.
Lilylover

[lillylover]

I think I figured this out.      that wc threw me some. 

It came to me while I was drying my hair a bit ago....well if I am on the right track.  It was something that came to me wc a T said to me years ago and that was:  Awareness is 50% of the "battle".  I ( I think he used the word "battle".) 

So translation: I think once we are "aware" of what "is", it's up to us to figure out or learn what we can  do  to protect ourselves or grow in the right direction. And to learn what we can and can't control etc.  It doesn't mean it's easy.  So we often need help with this  and we have to maybe turn to many sources for this help. Many! .  That is where we become responsible?? Once we are aware... Yes?  That said - but speaking just for me - ugh -who wants to do all this work. Especially when there are numbers of toxic people past and present whereby we need learn how to deal with or turn away from.  I've done a lot of work. Still have more to go.   

I hope this is it. 

[SonofThunder]

Hello lillylover,

Im not certain this particular board is the best place for your question to get the most replies, but the mods can certainly decide, should it get better visibility from Out of the FOG members elsewhere.  Either way, I will bite on the question put forth 😃. 

I agree with what your wrote about the empowerment from awareness: "...what we can do to protect ourselves or grow in the right direction. And to learn what we can and can't control etc."

I will add an extra thought to that in the form of a question.

With regard to the PD person in your life and your awareness, what legal options exist, in your full control, to remove yourself from the relationship with this PD person and fully protect yourself going forward? 

SoT

[Penny Lane]

This has come up before and I've thought a lot about the 50% rule.

First of all a caveat ... if a toolbox tool doesn't help, makes you feel worse, etc., SKIP IT! They're not all set in stone laws, they're a collection of techniques to help you make your life easier.

That being said, here is what I think about the 50% rule. You are responsible for what you do, the PD is responsible for what they do. So, you say something, they react. That's their 50%. Then you have a choice, do you want away, do you give a medium chill response, do you escalate? That's your 50%. And you are responsible for that action, but NOT for the PD's next reaction - that's their 50%.

More broadly, say you decide to stay in a marriage with a PD. You are responsible for that choice. Say you decide to leave, that is something to take ownership.

But say you decide to stay and the PD escalates the abuse. That's their 50%. Or you leave and they escalate. Also their 50%. Meaning, you're not responsible for the OUTCOME (what the PD does), you're responsible for your choices.

So I think it's intended to be freeing. Both that you are absolutely not responsible for their actions. And also that you have choices, you can choose your own action, and that gives you your power back.

As far as when you were a kid, I'm not sure this applies. A kid doesn't have the resources or the emotional skills to truly be responsible for their choices. That's why a healthy childhood is supposed to buffer them from hard choices and teach them how to make good choices. So I wouldn't so much apply that rule to yourself as a child, rather situations where you're an adult and where you feel helpless.

Hope this helps.

[square]

Agreed this doesn't really apply to children. They do not have the legal or physical means to choose to leave or maintain a relationship with a parent, and their ability to choose their own behavior ranges from non-existant (infant) to extremely limited (child) to varying but often somewhat limited (teen).

As adults, however, we are responsible for ourselves, even in the face of toxic parents. But NOT responsible for the toxic parent's behavior.

I went through an evolution of understanding in my marriage. Early on, I believed our conflicts were 50-50. That the outrageous arguments were both of us. That "we" were volatile.

Eventually I started realizing something was wrong, and I started realizing my other relationships were not at all the same. I started seeing the problem as my husband. I felt like this was a critical step in my process, not to be skipped, but not the end. I had to seperate myself from him in my mind to see the dynamic. Just because "we" were having these ridiculous arguments did not mean that I was causing them just as much as he was.

The final step looks like the first step but it isn't. I regained my 50-50 view but it was different. It wasn't that we were collectively equally responsible for any and all drama, which is what I first assumed. There could be tons of drama caused by a single person and the other one having no part in it. But we have to, in fact, bow out of the drama to get there - whether we remove ourselves physically, divorce/NC, or just MC/GR.

I really would prefer a renaming of the concept, maybe 100/100, meaning we are each 100% responsible for ourselves, rather than this murky idea that any conflict is always bourne equally by both parties.

[Srcyu]

The fifty per cent rule can be applied to some people and not to others. Nothing is set in stone.
The fifty per cent rule will have been the product of someone's opinion, nothing more.

[lillylover]

Thank you all for your take on the 50% rule.

Penny Lane I like what you said about if a tool doesn't work SKIP IT.  Windmill you have said something similar.  Such a simple way to look at any rule (or suggestion) that doesn't really seem to fit. SKIP IT. 

Without going into great detail about the PDs in my life and all their flying monkeys/ enablers and trying to separate what is what and myself from so much sickness it really does feel better to SKIP IT (the 50% rule) . 

square, you have come up with your own way of viewing the concept. And SonofThunder you gave your take as well. 

All very helpful and much appreciated.

I am always trying to simplify my life (NOT easy sometimes  ) but YES! Those simple words SKIP IT makes things far less complicated for me while on this journey of always trying to get healthier and especially at my age . 

Again, thank you all. 

[bloomie]

lillylover - there is an old saying in recovery circles that would possibly apply and it is: 'take what you need and leave the rest'. The tools, suggestions from others on a similar journey, books and vids that may be helpful to many, but sometimes just don't resonate with us or cause some confusion.. all part of honoring our own unique journey and needs. I am so glad you brought this question to the community and have really gained a lot from the discussion. 🌸

[lillylover]

Thank you Bloomie for reminding me of the old saying.   Take what you need and leave the rest.

I've heard that before but never knew it was a saying in Recovery Circles.  It's a great saying.  And yes- true about books, videos, etc - some information doesn't resonate and some things really do!

Sometimes I'll read a self-help kind of book and find only one nugget yet that nugget is very useful to me and in my brain that nugget of info stays pasted on like a bumper sticker!   It'll  stay there for as long as I need it. Then when I don't need it anymore perhaps another nugget comes along.  And that gets pasted on my brain.  I love  those nuggets.  I write them down too.  We have to be open to find them, yes? And embrace them.

I certainly did gain a good amount from the discussion.  Again, thank you. 

[moglow]

I was thinking that too - take what you need and leave the rest, wherever it applies to you. Sometimes that one nugget of truth prompts a bit more pushing, that next step, a small change in our behavior or insight that gets us through the next several steps. I'm not much of a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" person - I can and will consider other thought processes even when it's uncomfortable. While I may want to know what brought a person to think or behave xyz, it doesn't provide blanket forgiveness or acceptance of the behavior. They - like all of us - had a choice.

I'm not a huge 50% rule fan mainly because it seems to suggest we all offer 50%, 100% of the time, and that's not the case. Sometimes my "half" is more like 72 or it might be 12. We're simply responsible for our own half, our own behavior, just as the other person is responsible for theirs. All those accusations that get flung around in the heat of the moment - did you really "make" me do or say or feel that, or did I react without thinking? Did I make you mad etc or did you react to my words/actions?

To me it's acceptance of and responsibility for our personal behavior as individuals, whatever it may be.

[SonofThunder]

I was thinking that too - take what you need and leave the rest, wherever it applies to you. Sometimes that one nugget of truth prompts a bit more pushing, that next step, a small change in our behavior or insight that gets us through the next several steps. I'm not much of a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" person - I can and will consider other thought processes even when it's uncomfortable. While I may want to know what brought a person to think or behave xyz, it doesn't provide blanket forgiveness or acceptance of the behavior. They - like all of us - had a choice.

I'm not a huge 50% rule fan mainly because it seems to suggest we all offer 50%, 100% of the time, and that's not the case. Sometimes my "half" is more like 72 or it might be 12. We're simply responsible for our own half, our own behavior, just as the other person is responsible for theirs. All those accusations that get flung around in the heat of the moment - did you really "make" me do or say or feel that, or did I react without thinking? Did I make you mad etc or did you react to my words/actions?

To me it's acceptance of and responsibility for our personal behavior as individuals, whatever it may be.

I agree on responsibility.  100% responsible for me. The other person is 100% them.  Imo, In a relationship with another adult human (minors don't have full adult rights) we adults together in a relationship = 200% responsibility total.  But, in a 200% relationship, i am only responsible for my 100% me, which my 100 is 50% of 200.  Therefore the '50% rule'. 

I believe the 50% rule and 51% rules are foundational, governing rules for ourselves in any relationship, and in a way (imo), both should not be in the toolbox, but rather are the governing bodies in which the tools should operate.

The 50% solely about responsibility for getting into, staying in or departing from, and the 51% rule about my choices of actions or reactions (using the tools) that positively support me 1% more than anyone, regarding the getting into, staying in, or departing from the relationship.  I can bring my 100% responsibility to a relationship and I can take my 100% responsibility with me on departure.  I have no right to any of the 100% of the responsibility of the other person and likewise with them (although they try to assign us theirs, and in the FOG we accept as 'caretakers').

The 'governing' portion of the 50% rule is both a burden but also a blessing.  I cannot blame the other person (burden) for my choices to get in, remain or depart from my relationship with a PD, but I can fully decide for myself (blessing) regarding my remaining or departing (chosen or unchosen relationship).  I also believe the foundational 50% and 51% rules are only at their full capability to understand and utilize by the non if the non is Out of the FOG.  Those two foundational rules are the large over-arching foundational rules that get manipulated by PD's.  PD's desire us to own some/all of their 100% responsibility (them living in victim mode by assigning us their responsibility) and at the same time, on the flip-side, they desire to own as much of our 51% rule as they can, so we martyr our own best interests by 'caretaking' them. 

When we come Out of the FOG, we realize that the 50% rule and 51% rule are ours to claim and being manipulated by the PD. Hopefully we boldly take back our full 51% rule and give back all the 50% rule they gaslight-assign to us.  In doing so, we are strengthened and they are depleted from us being the past 'host' of their manipulated needs.

So, when I truly came Out of the FOG, my own 100% responsibility left me with two constant choices: stay in or depart from a relationship with a PD.  Either choice is 100% my responsibility and ability to make and manage.  Either one has tremendous consequences and needs the toolbox to achieve the 51% rule in those decisions. 

SoT

[Starboard Song]

I'm really late to this party, but would say this: the 50% rule assumes you are not subject to coercion or serious duress.

The 50% rule is not a legal or moral judgement, and it doesn't mean you are responsible for 50% of each thing. An abused person is not responsible for half of all blows. It is only that you are fully responsible for all of your free choices.

So a child is not 50% responsible, because they aren't free to leave. A person being beaten, threatened, or otherwise coerced is less responsible for the same reasons.

The 50% Rule is an empowerment and a challenge: you are showing up again? To be insulted again? You are letting him stay the night again? You actually engaged this person in an argument you know will go in circles? Stop!