When Were They Physically/Emotionally Present?

[atticusfinch]

Hello friends. I am trying to understand this aspect of my ex PD partner in an attempt to understand my own patterns as I try to date in a healthy way.

In retrospect, my PD ex was emotionally and physically present in the dating stage, but as we became more committed, he increasingly withdrew. For example, the night he asked me to marry him, he felt very disconnected, which I chalked up to nerves. Ditto the day we got married. Now that I understand PDs better, and how they don't always have a separate sense of self, I wonder in a way if I was just an object/stand-in while he lived out his fantasy (?). On the other hand, I know PDs are also threatened by closeness, so maybe that's why they withdraw?

I know I have my own wounding from childhood that makes me somewhat attracted to people who are physically/emotionally available (because, theoretically, I'm replaying my childhood wound with my PD mom and hoping for a different outcome), so I'm trying to understand. My love language is also quality time, words of affirmation, physical touch (in that order)--things a person can't get with someone who is unavailable. As I look back on my marriage, my ex worked a lot, and when he was home, his mind was often far away. Because I'm a quality time person, I often felt very rejected and wounded by this, even when he wasn't being overtly abusive.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that I've been dating someone who is very emotionally present when he's "chasing" me, but as soon as we settle into some sort of rhythm, he is only intermittently present. When we are together, he's often taking work calls, rushing off to deal with work emergencies, or, like yesterday, we had plans in the morning and he found out a friend of his needed a ride home from the hospital (I noticed he didn't use the pronoun "he"), so he sort of unceremoniously dumped me back off at my house and didn't check back in until that night. There is a lot more to our relationship that raises red flags, and I've already broken up with him once and am going to do it again this week, but I guess ultimately I'm trying to decipher my patterns so I don't repeat them.

That's why I was wondering about other PDs' physical/emotional availability and how it relates to their disorder. Thanks in advance <3

[Poison Ivy]

My ex-husband began to withdraw from our relationship and from his role as a father when our children were pre-teens.  Ex-h has said a few times that he has learned (through therapy) that he is "unable to form close emotional relationships." His words, not mine, but I agree with him. 

[Kat54]

My ex was never present emotionally unless he was angry.  It dawned on me that he never really was and I did see it but my own issues with co-dependency I didn't care, he was paying a little attention to me and that was enough as long I made him happy and jumped to do anything for him.  It made me mad that when we dated, we never went out alone, or very rarely it was always a group of friends. He had to surround himself as like a cushion so we couldn't get close. 
The first time we went away alone together was when he proposed, even that was awkward. So, no he never really was ever present, and could never have inner self reflection about himself. 

[Associate of Daniel]

Just chiming in to say that this was my experience with my uNPD exH too.

It's made me all the more determined to make sure there is a real connection emotionally if I ever go down the relationship path again.

I never want to find myself in the same situation again.

AOD

[mdana]

For me, my PD ex was emotionally and physically present when he wanted something.... So, it was always fleeting and temporary.  Beyond that I realized his emotional presence was not entirely genuine. He once even admitted that he faked it, to get me to "marry" him.

I seemed to mean everything to him, when I had something he needed (and I made zero waves, requests or demands on him). Mostly it was the "image"  of a family he needed from me (it helped his career). When we were younger, I had more money than him... so I served that purpose for him too.

My ex has never been able to "attach" to anyone (in any deep and meaningful way).  He  is so wounded.  How do you know when it's real?  Maybe consider asking him for what you need. See if he can meet you....then sustain it. PDs can actually show up (at times) ... the bigger problem is they can't sustain it.... that's been my experience...

I also think it's good to listen to your gut ... and if Red flags have come up for you, pay attention to those. They came up for me soooo often (before I married)... but I didn't listen to them. Wish I had...

M

[atticusfinch]

Thanks so much for your responses... it is fascinating and sad that we have this element in common. Have any of you read about attachment theory? I've been trying to understand my patterns in relationships and it is fascinating to learn about avoidant, anxious, and secure attachment styles and how they play into relationships. I was told that the co-dependent member of a dysfunctional relationship often has an anxious attachment style... and that the more abusive (or addicted) member has an avoidant attachment style. Avoidant types are attracted to anxiously attached types because the avoidant can hook the anxious person in and then withdraw emotionally without losing the anxiously attached partner (who is so afraid of abandonment that they continue to "chase" the avoidant or stay with the avoidant when that person mistreats him/her). For the anxiously attached, this often mimics the withdrawal of a primary caregiver from childhood (which strikes true for me). I also find it interesting that as I look back, my ex PD spouse would react abusively whenever he felt threatened by emotional intimacy (ie, things would be going great, I'd be feeling closer to him, then he'd pick a fight).

[openskyblue]

 

This is absolutely fascinating -- and rings so true in terms of me, my exhusband, and my FOO. As "luck" would have it, I recently went through a big light bulb event with my elderly mother that re-confirmed for me how abandoning she had always been with me. (As an infant she would leave me alone in places -- the car, the front porch -- and throughout my life she triangulated me away from people she thought should love her more than me (my dad, her mother). There were always red flags with her, but she was also a master hoover.  I don't know if she's a PD or just straight up neglectful, but my whole life I wanted her approval and love -- but knew I could never trust her.  That dynamic played out with my attachment avoidant exhusband too, who was gregarious charmer, but would get also get mad at me if I told him I loved him.

I'm a different person now -- and one that pays a lot of attention to my gut.   I don't tamp down my natural paranoia anymore and I give myself a long stretch of road between myself and getting to trust new people in my life.  If I feel like I am stuffing anything about myself or my needs to please someone, that's a red flag for me that either the person is not trustworthy or I'm entering a relationship dynamic that is unlikely to serve me well. Fortunately, I'm finding at the same time that there are wonderful, compassionate people around me.

[Poison Ivy]

I think it's fascinating, too.  I probably qualify as having (or formerly having) an anxious attachment style.  I don't blame my parents although my attachment issues did have to do with my early life.  My mom had very severe postpartum depression after I was born and had to be hospitalized for several weeks. My dad was overwhelmed by having three children (infant me, my toddler brother, my young child sister) to care for and so he arranged to have me stay with family friends who also had children, including an infant around my age.  Obviously, I don't remember any of this, but I do remember feeling extremely anxious when I was a child and was apart from my mom.  My ex-husband really seems to fit into the avoidant attachment style, and I definitely observed him pulling away from me during our marriage when I tried to get closer.  Sigh.

[40andfab]

This is a great topic, I can say that my ex was a master at being in the same house or room, yet not actually being there. I would comment to friends that I never knew such loneliness when married to this man, even actually being alone is better because I can do what I want like watch the shows I want or read without his incessant sighs and looks of disapproval that I was supposed to somehow decipher. 

The hardest part is when I needed him to be there emotionally, he just couldn't. It was like he would disappear when anything in our lives got really difficult. He still does it to this day even though we are divorced, if one of our kids has a hard time with something, he just can't help them through it. I watch my adult children struggle with this all the time.

Sadly, I feel like living this way for over twenty years really took a toll on me and now I am so independent and have a great network of friends I can rely on that I worry about any new male relationships in the future.

Another weird thing:

He would sometimes disappear after work or just walk out of the house on a Saturday without saying where the heck he was going. It was so strange because we had little kids at the time. I would call him on his cell phone when I realized he was "missing" and he would act annoyed that I wondered where he had gone! Sometimes he just wouldn't pick up his phone, or send me a quick text like "driving can't talk" from his automatic phone choices, leaving me with no idea when he would be back and if I should make him lunch or dinner or if I should just go on with my day.  After many years of this, I just went along with my day and didn't include him in any plans because it was like herding a cat. Funny, his biggest complaint in our divorce was that I didn't treat him like he was a part of the family and stopped considering him in plans. I swear its a no win.

I know for sure that any future relationship I may have will be very different, or I won't stay in it.

[Jsinjin]

Goodness, so very rare and it's so easy to get hoovered back in when they are.   I think for many non pd spouses or significant others we get the little bits of effort and then live in shock of the big definite pull aways or explosions.   I usually found joy in the times when I saw her smile or laugh but it was never for me.   I lived for a moment when a smile and joy came because I came home or did something special.    I have never been able to out my finger on it but it's like there was a definite need to show that we were not going to be a couple where a wide held her husband's hand or sat close to him or kissed him goodbye.   On our honeymoon she was in charge of a 500 person conference while I spent the time wandering the local city by myself.  We we're intimate only the four times she wanted kids (one miscarriage) and otherwise it was 25 years of simply hoping.    For me the PD is not only jot present, the consciously want to avoid being close.    I think it's the loss if control one gets when a relationship happens.

Nothing new here but at least I've learned we have all seen similar events

[openskyblue]

Sadly, I feel like living this way for over twenty years really took a toll on me and now I am so independent and have a great network of friends I can rely on that I worry about any new male relationships in the future.

Another weird thing:

He would sometimes disappear after work or just walk out of the house on a Saturday without saying where the heck he was going. It was so strange because we had little kids at the time. I would call him on his cell phone when I realized he was "missing" and he would act annoyed that I wondered where he had gone! Sometimes he just wouldn't pick up his phone, or send me a quick text like "driving can't talk" from his automatic phone choices, leaving me with no idea when he would be back and if I should make him lunch or dinner or if I should just go on with my day.  After many years of this, I just went along with my day and didn't include him in any plans because it was like herding a cat. Funny, his biggest complaint in our divorce was that I didn't treat him like he was a part of the family and stopped considering him in plans. I swear its a no win.

I know for sure that any future relationship I may have will be very different, or I won't stay in it.

Boy, I could  have written this — word for word. I spent 20 years being told (and believing) that I just expected too much. Coming home for dinner, having a regular schedule with the kids, coming on family vacation — all of that was just too constraining  for my husband.

Turns out, what I wanted was totally normal and healthy. I'm not in a partner relationship, but I enjoy my friendships enormously and my adult kids and I are close and we have a lot of fun together. I'm not settling for crumbs ever again.