So want to be in this category - separating & divorcing

[20yrsofcrazy]

I want so much to fast forward to this point.  I want to be separated but at this point my alcoholic udbpd/npdh is dependent on me to get dressed and undressed.  He has had many injuries in his 45 years of life and now has to wear a knee brace that he can't get on or off without help.  He still goes to work, mostly.  He has always proclaimed that he would be disabled by 40 and in a wheelchair because of all of his "accidents" - from dirt bikes, 4-wheelers, horses, working in construction and as an automotive mechanic.  What kind of person at 25 says that they will be in a wheelchair by the age of 40.  I used to just laugh it off, but now I think he was serious.  He wants to be taken care of.  I think he thinks the only way he deserves to be taken care of or loved is if he is hurt physically.  I know he hurts emotionally all the time. 

Well, the latest episode resulted in me having to call 911/EMS because he had hurt himself while coming up our 3 back steps.  He only said he stepped wrong and I just thought it would be a matter of icing the knee, some Tylenol, etc. 

What I didn't know was that he had not eaten lunch (he is probably diabetic) so it had been approximately 12 hours since he had eaten anything and he had been drinking.  How much?  I don't know but plenty to be obviously inebriated and slightly confused. 

He laid down on the bed complaining of pain and I helped him get situated with the knee brace off so we could ice the knee, etc.  He would not stop writhing in pain and screaming out in pain.  Then, he would go perfectly still, passed out, I guess.  Then, he would wake up and gasp for air.  I finally called a neighbor to see if we could both get him into the car so I could take him to the ER.  Well, between the screaming and convulsing (from pain?) and the passing out and not breathing for a few seconds every minute or so, we decided that probably wasn't a good plan because I was afraid he would hurt himself worse or hurt me or the neighbor. 

So after several times of having to pound on his chest to make him wake up and take a breath, I dialed 911.  We live in the country so it took at least 15-20 minutes before the first responder showed up and about 30 minutes for the actual ambulance and EMTs.  They took his blood pressure  and his blood sugar and checked his EKG, I think, because there were monitors stuck on his chest,, etc.  They deemed him fine other than the pain but they would transport him to the ER if we wanted.  HE REFUSED.  He said he was in pain but would be okay.  So eventually they all left. 

During the time they were in our house, he told the story about how he hadn't eaten lunch and his knee gives out all the time so he just missed a step and fell down.  I didn't know he had actually fallen down.  This was almost a week ago and he can't really tell me how he fell down either or what he actually landed on, i.e., his knee or hip, etc. 

So after EMS leaves, the neighbor leaves and says he will keep his phone on at night so I can call him if needed.  I thanked him and went to try to get my H  to eat something so I could give him some oral pain pills.  I also asked how much he drank.  He said 4-5 beers and 4-5 swigs of whiskey.  ON AN EMPTY STOMACH.   and I'm guessing that might have been a conservative guess of how much he drank. 

Long story short, after he ate a bit and I gave him a couple of pills leftover from a surgery last year, his pain flared up again and I insisted he get in the car and I take him to the ER, which we did.  When he got back in the room at the ER, they asked him why he was there and he said he hurt his hip/knee and SHE (pointed at me) didn't want to be up all night so here we are.  Like it was my fault we were at the ER.  ?????

Anyway, they took x-rays and gave him some pain shots and right after that his parents showed up to check on him.  They laughed and joked about how many times he's been in the ER over the years and just shake their heads like he's such a naughty boy.  I just sat there not laughing and at one point said, "I don't find it funny."  His mom agreed.  She didn't find it funny.  But she giggled and swatted at her "boys" as they laughed and made fun of this and that. 

Next day we go the orthopedic doctor to find out what he suggests because H is still in pain.  Doctor says he possibly has a stress fracture of his hip and probably a torn muscle above his knee.  This is the knee he had replaced 2 years ago, which is a whole other story. 

H had to present a paper to work to be off work for the rest of the week so we ran up to his job after the doctor appointment.  Guess who had to go in and talk to his boss?   ME.   

Anyway, how do I make him see that he has to get help for his alcoholism because I am starting to see that if he's not drinking, he will disintegrate mentally into the zone of "everybody is judging me," "there's no redemption for trying," "I'm tired of being judged," and "I might as well be alone."   Those comments stem from my inability or in his mind refusal to forgive and forget all the negative behavior through the years and just because he has become less aggressive overall, I should be swooning over him and showing him how much I love him. 

I don't love him anymore.  There is so much more to this story but it is such a pivotal moment.  To drink so much that you fall down and break your hip and stop breathing so many times that EMS has to be called is not a "normal" thing, is it?

I know its not my responsibility to get him help but how do I get him help??  See the conundrum.  We have two teen aged children living at home as well.  They were not home when the EMS showed up.  They did know their dad was hurt and in pain before they left for the evening and figured I would take him to the ER if he needed it. 

I feel like if I just ask for a separation, he will just disintegrate into a puddle of dysfunction but I'm tired of trying to hold it all together.  Its slipping through my fingers anyway.

Thanks for "listening."  Ugh.  I just hate this. 

[Outofhere]

Am I a horrible person for saying my first thought when he passed out would be to not call 911 or anyone else, but to go for a nice long walk? 

It's true he needs help, but as long as you're there, he'll keep draining you and blaming you for his problems rather than facing that fact. I left one week ago today from someone who sounds frighteningly similar to your husband and he had a complete breakdown. Now he's hospitalized for psychiatric observation, detox, and more, and my daughter said if I hadn't left he'd never have gotten into treatment or gotten the care he needs. She said I probably did him a favor, and that I definitely saved myself before he destroyed me in the process. 

How do your children feel about the situation?  There comes a time when we have to stop enabling abusers to continue self-destructing, and taking us down with them in the process. The abuse we endure from them has made us stronger than we realize. Embrace that strength.

[NumbLotus]

You can't help him.

*You can't help him.*

But you don't have to drown with him.

[20yrsofcrazy]

Outofhere

The thing is...I was on my way out the door with my kids.  If I hadn't been home,  I think he would have laid outside in the cold for hours.

Problem is...I bet he could have had a medical emergency but it probably wouldn't end this.  It would probably just be enough that he's even more dependent on me.

But, yes, that thought crossed my mind later...if only i hadn't been home, what could have happened?

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine.  She still lives at home but seems to have strong boundaries compared to me.  My DS14 has told me he didn't used to understand his dad but now he does.  When I asked what he meant,  he said his drinking.  He understands that we might not always be together and DS14 is ok with that.   I told him it was really hard when he and his sister were younger,  but he said,  well we're older now and if we are with him and he's bad/mean/whatever, we can just leave.   

Numblotus

Noted.  Just trying to get that to sink in. 

[NumbLotus]

Yeah. No jusgement. I'm still trying to decide if I should just swim for shore myself.

[GettingOOTF]

You cannot make an alcoholic see anything about their drinking. Their sole desire is to drink and they will do anything to facilitate this. Your care taking of your husband is exactly what he he wants as it allows him the freedom to pursue his greatest desire. He will not give this up. There is nothing you can do to make him stop and there is nothing you can to to make him let you leave.

Have you looked in to Al-Anon? I also always recommend reading Codependent No More. It really helped me.

Your husband is an adult, he has choices. He could find recovery if he wanted. He could be responsible for things like his own health or speaking to his boss of he wanted to. Sadly alcoholism is progressive. It only ever gets worse.

Many divorce attorneys will offer a free consolation. You don't have to get the divorce but it may help you to know options and the process. If you want to be in this side of the forums you can be. There is lots of healing and a different life on this side.

Regardless of what you do you should place the focus on yourself and what you can control. Not your husband. There is nothing you can do for him. If loving and supporting him were enough he'd be sober and maintaining his health by now.

[Spygirl]

Hmmm,

I was able to escape this being my future by divorcing recently. Even a marriage counselor we saw( a phd psych.) Told us both what the future would be if HE continued. I understand your feeling "stuck" and that hopeless chores continues to pile up on you. Worring about being blamed if and when something goes horribly wrong because you were not available. It has to be terribly draining and frustrating.

Perhaps as others suggested, Al-Anon at first.  It helped me for a bit, until i realized alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg. I was met with resistance by my pdexh. He did not want his "flaws" on parade. I went anyway. It was for ME, not him. It is a good place to let all your pent up feelings out with like minded people who do understand. You need that. You wont talk about him, you talk about you. You get away for a couple hrs. He has to fend for himself.

Another strategy i employed, was to stop catering and covering for him. I got my own social life. If he was hung over all weekend, i was out doing other things. If he was not home for dinner, and didnt call, i would leave dinner in the fridge, for example. I would be nice about it too. I NEVER called a boss for him. I STOPPED waiting for him to make it home at 2am. I used to pray for his DUI that never happened. I told his friends to keep him overnite.  If he had a complaint about a service i was providing him, i stopped it permanently. He was doing his own laundry and cleaning his bathroom for years. At one point, he thought if he let it get nasty enough, i would clean it. I let it go 9 months. He finally started doing it himself.

Imo, perhaps if  you were to mention how "concerned" you are about his declining health, and that you are looking at care homes "just in case" so you are prepared to give him the best possible outcome if he hurts himself. leave the brochures out, really go look. Two can play the manipulation game.

When his parents give you blowback, you could mention how heavy he is, how difficult it is, and how you worry about him dying. How you may need financial assistance from them for a part time caregiver in the future. Or perhaps you could sell your home and all live together to care for him ! That will go over like a lead balloon, lol!


I am not trying to make light of your situation, just wanting to spark you with some thoughts to help you get some relief. Be creative.

[20yrsofcrazy]

GettingOOTF and Spygirl
Yes, I have listened to Codependent No More.  I might need to revisit it.  I have also talked to a lawyer over a year ago.  I did feel more confident after talking with him. 

I have previously been so focused on him being BPD or NPD that I wasn't concentrating on the alcoholism. I'm not sure which is the bigger problem.  However, I am beginning to see that alcoholism may be the bigger problem or at least the more immediate one.  I think he is so miserable that he numbs himself with alcohol. 

I don't cater to him near as much as I used to and I think that he feels me pulling away; thus, the escalation of the drinking and other behaviors to "get my attention" back on him. 

I have a small group of very good friends who echo your recommendation for care homes or admitting him to the hospital and then calling his parents and saying that I can't take care of him anymore.  While these fantasies keep me somewhat amused and hopeful, I'm not sure they will come to reality. 

Most of my friends that I confide in wish I would have just left the room when he was having trouble breathing and not called for help.  Believe me, I wonder myself.  I just know if I did, it would have ended up worse for me somehow, someway.  Nothing ever seems to go my way anyway. 

I started writing a letter to his parents.  I don't know if I plan to send it or just use it as kind of an outline should the opportunity to talk to them arises.   I realized they really don't KNOW him.  He moved out at 18 and we got married when he was 22.  He used to brag about how infrequent he talked to or saw his parents.  (They were abusive, according to him.)  I, on the other hand, am very close with my family.  I have been with him for 26+ years.  They only know him as a child, which I guess he still is. 


Thank all of you for your sage advice.  I am so sorry that all of you are enduring or have endured similar.  I will keep trying to move forward for my sake and my kids' sake.

I found this community about 4 years ago and it has been a lifeline.  THANK YOU from the bottom of my broken heart.

[Spygirl]

Good to hear you have some outlets!

Have you considered just sitting down when he is sober and just telling him the truth?

Telling him how miserable you are because of the drinking. how difficult it is to take care of him, because he behaves as if he is helpless as a toddler  And incredibly self destructive?

Perhaps a shot across the bow, May motivate him to help himself at least a little bit. I am sure the effort would degrade after a period of time to where it is now, But at least you would have gotten it out in the open. He cant say he was blindsided.

Who knows maybe he'll cry to mommy and daddy and go stay with them for a while. That would give you some time to regroup and clear your head.

Those of us in FOG have tremendous power to change the way our lives are every minute of the day. We, unfortunately,  do not see it, are too scared of our pd, or concerned about outside judgement to save ourselves.

The only thing martyers have in common is death.

No one is going to look back at your lifelong suffering and reward you for it. They wont notice or care. So why continue? I had this debate with myself. I chose life. MY LIFE.

[GettingOOTF]

The last time my BPDxH was hospitalized I told the hospital he couldn't come back to my home. I called his family and told them the same thing. I found a therapy program and a coach for him and gave this information to his brother who paid for a hotel room for my ex when he was discharged and arranged the therapy etc.

I don't see how I would have gotten him out otherwise. His hospitalization was such a blessing. I'm sure that many people judge me for the way I handled it, but it really came down to saving my own life.

There is no easy way to leave a dependent person. Now looking back I see he made himself dependent on me so that I'd be less likely to leave him. It was app manipulation. Other than under extreme circumstances, adults all have resources, it's simply a matter of whether they choose to use them or not.

Your husband will be fine. Don't let his needs hold you back.

[GettingOOTF]

Those of us in FOG have tremendous power to change the way our lives are every minute of the day. We, unfortunately,  do not see it, are too scared of our pd, or concerned about outside judgement to save ourselves.

I don't think I've read truer or more powerful words here Spygirl. I remember your story and how hard it was for you to leave, and look at you now!

[Rose1]

So sorry this is coming to a head.
Exubpdmil always said she'd be in a wheelchair feom the time I first knew her (not quite 50). Well she ended up in a wheelchair eventually at age 80 plus. Dont think it was as much fun as she thought.
Exbpdh was also possibly an alcoholic. He said he was and used to drink a lot. If course him saying it was likely attention seeking behaviour too as he never said it to me.
I believe he used to drink for one reason only, he told me he enjoyed the feeling.  He was very into self gratification. When he left me to go hime to mummy im sure it was just to make me comply more qith his deterioration and wishes. I didnt have him back and he lived with his parents for 2 years before getting public housing and eventually remarrying. In that time he always had people to take advantage of. His father at 80 plus used to mow his lawn for him.
Ex's strategy was to do nothing he didnt want to and someone else would. And they do. Till they get sucked dry.
I've no idea is he still drinks. I heard he was smoking pot. Who knows. He's 70 and still going so I assume he either has the constitution of an ox or he's stopped his destructive ways. Or his wife is doing what I used to. I wonder if she will burn out after 20 plus years too although he would be pushing 80 then.

Him hoing hime to hus parwnts was probably a food thing for him. Not so much for his parents. His bpd mother wanted him back and when she got him decided he was too much work. They never forgave me for not having him back. Meh.

The others are right. An alcoholic will keep going until he hits rock bottom. But I understand how difficult it is to let that happen.
Take care

[Kat54]

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. I agree with Outofhere, Spygirl and the others. While he has had many injuries from what you have said, and then the alcoholism.  A lot of it is his way of be controlling, as crazy as they may sound by making it so he's dependent on you for everything he's controlling you.  Its easy for us all to say and give advise, but we have all been there in some way. You are the only one who has to do it, feeling stuck is so hard, and watching your spouse fall or spiral downward from drinking. Its not on you, he has to be responsible and to let go feels impossible to do.

For myself it took a few years of therapy, it started as marriage counseling and then he stopped going, so I continued. It gave me the strength to leave a controlling, angry, negative person.  He was always attention seeking, and being a victim all the time to feel sorry for him.  My situation was different compared to yours but in many ways very similar, one thing it certainly does is it sucks the life from you. I felt like I was drowning and if I didn't leave there was no surviving.

Take baby steps, start with some therapy, it will help you take a step back and see the situation better, and certainly your spouse can use counseling for sure but only he can do that. Start making small choices to help yourself. 

[cant turn back]

Spygirl, our guru:

Those of us in FOG have tremendous power to change the way our lives are every minute of the day. We, unfortunately,  do not see it, are too scared of our pd, or concerned about outside judgement to save ourselves.

So very true.
And then, you realize:

No one is going to look back at your lifelong suffering and reward you for it. They wont notice or care.

And you will have given up way too much of your life thinking that is was too difficult/too painful/too expensive/too SCARY to make a change and put yourself first. He's an adult, not a child.  Your needs, desires, feelings matter.  Prioritize yourself.

[20yrsofcrazy]

Thank you all so much.  I picked up the phone to call my therapist whom I haven't seen for about a year.   I couldn't bring myself to call.   I will try again tomorrow.   Somehow I feel like if I haven't taken steps to separate she will be disappointed in me. 

[HotCocoa]

I don't cater to him near as much as I used to and I think that he feels me pulling away; thus, the escalation of the drinking and other behaviors to "get my attention" back on him. 

This quote in particular struck me.  Please know, you are NOT the cause of his drinking and you won't be the solution.  I know what you are saying when you say you want to be a part of the divorced group.  I used to be jealous of women who were divorced because they found a way out.  I am divorced now, went through a lot of pain, but it is so much better on the other side and alcohol is not in any part of my life whatsoever and that feels really good to reclaim my life.  I wish you peace and hope you can find your way to the other side.