Does the severity of lashing out or being in the black or the really bad just awful behavior iwe don't like get amplified during that cycle, of week or few days..
What has been peoples experience on this, please ?
From Shrink4Men I've found the guys there often comment on the severity ramping up on a regular cycle and it either being much better or much worse in pregnancy. Menopause is hell...
Several of the guys say their female partner has been diagnosed PMDD
I thought so...
My mom was cyclically bad enough for me to even notice it as a child.
On the other hand if you are a female with a narcissistic partner it's better not to discuss personal stuff like menstruation or menopause with them, because they will store this information and use it against you at a later time.
My therapist asked me whether my uBPDw's behavior was linked to her menstrual cycle. I've only been monitoring this for a few months so this isn't exactly statistically significant but yes, there does seem to be a link. For three weeks it's almost as if she's forgotten she wants a divorce, discussing future plans (sort of), albeit sleeping in another room. And then for one week it gets nasty, particularly in the evenings when she wants out, I'm kidnapping her, wishes we'd never met, and so on.
Anyone else?
I never noticed a link between my PD mom's cycles and her behavior, but I don't think I would have wanted to know, honestly. :upsidedown:
She did get especially nasty when I was leaving for college, and at the time, I remember thinking it had to be menopause. What I don't remember is whether she was actually going through "the change" or if it was the explanation my non-PD aware brain latched onto, because her behavior was SO erratic. Maybe it was both? All I know is that she was at peak viciousness around that time, and even the tiniest thing (like me refusing a blueberry muffin she offered me) would set her off. :stars:
Cat - re: your mom's timing above - it could also have to do with fear of abandonment issues (you leaving for school) and also loss of control (of you when you left for school)
My uPDh's behavior ramped up considerably when we started looking at colleges for DS and as DS was getting ready to graduate HS and move on to college. It was brutal.
I believe it was a combo of fear of abandonment and fear of loss of control over DS
Not to say that your mom's could have also been impacted by life cycle/biology - absolutely could be that!
Many women experience mood swings over the 28 day menstrual cycle and during peri-menopause. I did for sure. I would imagine that if you are a woman with a PD then the "difficult" days will be compounded by the disorder. Never thought about that. Sounds grim.
Quote from: 11JB68 on May 07, 2021, 11:28:45 AM
Cat - re: your mom's timing above - it could also have to do with fear of abandonment issues (you leaving for school) and also loss of control (of you when you left for school)
My uPDh's behavior ramped up considerably when we started looking at colleges for DS and as DS was getting ready to graduate HS and move on to college. It was brutal.
I believe it was a combo of fear of abandonment and fear of loss of control over DS
Not to say that your mom's could have also been impacted by life cycle/biology - absolutely could be that!
No, I think you're absolutely right that the main trigger was the fear of abandonment, which is why I took the brunt of it. (Usually dad is the SG.) Whether there was an actual hormonal issue also contributing to all of it... I really don't know. I only remember thinking that had to be the explanation.
Once, every month, I become absolutely convinced that my 15DD is BPD :rofl:
Lord help me, I'm laughing but I seriously hope I am wrong and she levels off at some point. :wacko:
It seems uncontroversial that many women struggle -- at least a little -- to keep an even keel for a brief period during their cycle. And I know a few who say it is like the straw that broke the camel's back if it comes round at a stressful time, whether of work, or grief, or fatigue. So it seems only natural that it might exacerbate PD behaviors somewhat.
I jump in quick, though, to observe this: a personality disorder is when a person's exhibition of a set of enumerated traits is so pervasive, severe, and frequent, that we define it as pathological. None of those individual traits are "a little bit PD," or "PD traits." Every single one of us exhibits some of the traits of a BPD person from time to time: some of us exhibit one or two of them a whole bunch. That doesn't make us a "little bit PD," or "partially PD": it makes us human. And a healthy -- non-PD -- woman dealing with the hormone stress of her cycle is also not "a little PD."
Nobody has said that, in this thread. But there is a lot of negative stereotyping and misuse of PMS to demean women, or hint that PMS is a sort of hysteria, and I wouldn't want this thread to devolve into that, accidentally, or for people to misunderstand the question posed.
I'll be blunt - it sounds like your therapist is trying to find reason for/excuse her behavior patterns. That's all well and good in theory, but hormonal surges don't explain or justify PD behavior. Whatever superficial link there may be, there's a lot more to personality disorders than that. To me that presumed hypothesis trivializes not only women who suffer abnormally with their cycles, but those who struggle on a multitude of other levels.
Quote from: moglow on May 12, 2021, 11:05:53 AM
I'll be blunt - it sounds like your therapist is trying to find reason for/excuse her behavior patterns. That's all well and good in theory, but hormonal surges don't explain or justify PD behavior. Whatever superficial link there may be, there's a lot more to personality disorders than that. To me that presumed hypothesis trivializes not only women who suffer abnormally with their cycles, but those who struggle on a multitude of other levels.
I don't think it's that. I probably said something like "We had a few good weeks and then she lost it." So it was a reasonable question to ask. (If he hadn't then he might have been worried about being politically correct!)
No, every day is walking on eggshells. Every day is splitting. Every day is inappropriate responses and sudden, brief, anger. Every day is binge eating. Every day is just plain strange. But with Medium Chill it's tolerable.
And then every few weeks there's are a few evenings when she mentions the divorce and she ramps it up to 11.
We all, PD or not, ramp up our coping skills under stress. Some or many women have PMS. Therefore, it stands to reason that women with personality disorders will show stronger PD traits (their coping mexhanisms) during any times of PMS.
I just wanted to mention, though, that my H had a cycle of sorts, lasting a few weeks. A blowup. A period of relative calm. A period of increasing tension. A blowup.
It wasn't on a precise schedule. It just seemed to me that the blowups would sort of change things - maybe clear the air, vent his feelings, and then generate the desire to try harder (guilt). But it would just all come creeping back, his suspicions and so on. He'd suppress and then it would finally go sideways.
PMS totally exists but not every woman has it, and not everything a woman does is tied to her uterus. And there are other "cycles" that last a similar amount of time. It's worth considering PMS, and also worth considering other things.
Square, what you describe with your H sounds a lot like the cycle of abuse.
I agree with Moglow that it's easy for PMS to be used as an excuse/trivialization/rug sweeping concept. If it's "just" PMS it can't be that serious... :doh: This can be flipped the other way too. My ability to cope with abuse sometimes broke and I cried as a preteen. I must be ovulating and about to get my first period. :roll:
Every day women cope with their reproductive system doing all sorts of things. Periods, pregnancies, postpartum, menopause... It's reasonable to expect she can maintain basic standards of behavior through those things. They are normal, even if sometimes in pleasant even for healthy women. If a woman cannot cope well with life as a result of those things, whether or not she has a PD, she may need medical help. That should be taken seriously by loved ones. So if you notice your wife's behavior gets really out of control in sync with her cycle, perhaps suggest a visit to the gynecologist. You know, with empathy. She seems to be suffering and maybe it can be helped.
Quote from: Call Me Cordelia on May 12, 2021, 09:09:48 PM
So if you notice your wife's behavior gets really out of control in sync with her cycle, perhaps suggest a visit to the gynecologist. You know, with empathy. She seems to be suffering and maybe it can be helped.
She would be triggered. If she brought the subject up I could possibly advise. But even then she wouldn't take any action. Health is a complicated subject for her.
Can only comment (male here) that it is well known that stress and discomfort can cause people to act in less conscientious ways when dealing with others. This applies to many people who have not specifically been taught to deal with stress and discomfort. It's likely that if a PD is uncomfortable and experiencing stress then their PD behaviours that are less than conscientious would be amplified as well.
Jsj
IC I can relate to a upd spouse being triggered by health related topics. For decades Updh would not see a Dr. If he made a physical complaint and I suggested he should see a Dr for it he would blow up, rage, catastrophize etc. I stopped suggesting it. He ended up in the er with a heart attack just over a year ago...
Ouch.
uBPDw had 2nd vaccination yesterday. She spent two weeks researching the effects and getting anxious. I was mostly MC but did once say "I'll be there if you need me." That got me both barrels at point blank range!
Many women struggle with mood etc at various times in their cycle depending on their individual hormone levels at the various points in that cycle.
I think that healthy individuals come to know themselves and will make efforts to reduce the impact on others. They may veg out and binge watch a show on a given day or resort to picking up fast food or calling for pizza to reduce their chore load.
A PD person will often have a feelings as facts orientation. Feeling poorly physically or emotionally may be manifested in exaggerated pd-ness as they use their negative PD coping mechanisms/abuse styles to lash out.
A other thing to toss into a discussion of menses enhancing pd-ness is that the various endocrine systems are interconnected. The thyroid gland can influence menses and visa versa. Thyroid can have a great impact on mental health and brain chemistry.
Additionally things like blood pressure and the adrenaline response of a given person can influence the degree to which they are in flight or flight mode, eg operating in reptilian survival mode with no empathy etc.