I confronted my friend . . .

[Adria]

I called my girlfriend a week ago and she asked me how I was doing with our move. We had some things happen with people involved that made things difficult. I explained to my friend what happened with these people. She jumped all over me, basically telling me how stupid I am for letting these people do the things they did (totally out of my control).  She belittled me and spoke very condescending. 
She has been calling me and calling me almost in a desperate tone, leaving messages to return her calls. 

Well today, I texted her and said, that I appreciated her friendship, and that I could call her later this afternoon,  but basically didn't appreciate how she spoke to me last time we talked.  Of course, she doesn't remember it.  She wanted to know the details of how she offended me.  I gave her a couple of instances, again she doesn't have any idea of what I'm talking about. 

Then she came back with something like, I was only trying to tell you how nice you are and people don't appreciate  you.   Definitely not what she said that day.

My husband overheard our conversation, and said bu!! sh!t. 

I got tired of the back and forth to no avail, so told her what dh said.

She replied, I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish you the best.

If the tables were turned, and she confronted me telling me I hurt her feelings, I would have said something like, "Wow, I am so sorry, I guess I was having a bad morning. I would never hurt you on purpose."

Why do women always do this?  You can never confront them on anything without them having to have the last word and win, and walk out of your life.  I listen to my husband deal with the men at work, they lambaste each other and then go out for a beer. 

I was just going to let her go because I knew this is exactly how this would go, no matter how kind I tried to be about it. But, I thought it would help me get over it if I said something kindly.  I didn't want to lose her as a friend, but I couldn't let her think she could speak to me the way she did and just go on as if nothing happened.

I guess maybe I thought more of our friendship than she did?

[moglow]

Adria, it's not just women who "always" do this. I have several friends who I've never seen that behavior from, but a couple of female and male who did on the regular. If you suspect your friend is PD [which I assume is the case since you posted about her here], that's part and parcel of PD behaviors. Call pretty much any defensive person on their misbehavior whether PD or not and there's more of a tendency to pop back and accuse rather than agree to disagree even. And apologies? Forget it. It's like they take serious offense at any sign of conflict, lock down and that's that.

I ran into this kind of things several times with my presumed-PD mother - point out something that we clearly saw or remembered differently and Lord have mercy! She'd meltdown and go full-on martyr that I'd dare point out what I saw as obvious differences of opinion. She took it as attacks and her all or nothing thinking kicked in hard. You're either in full agreement with her and she's "right" or you're OUT. Sounds like your friend is much the same, and that's just sad. Guarantee though, she'll be back, probably pick up like none of this ever happened.

Thing is, what she says she meant isn't at all how it came out or translated. She can get defensive all she wants, but thems the facts. You say those same things to her in the way she did and I guarantee she'd see it differently. Difference is, if she said something you'd apologize and be horrified that she was hurt by it. You wouldn't likely shut down, but try to make amends. Her pride or whatever won't let her do that.

[Catothecat]

If a negative exists because of an encounter with people like this, that negative has to be on your part because they cannot allow it to be on theirs. 

She's likely not thinking on the incident in the same terms you are.  I'm right, you're wrong, so why won't YOU let this go and allow us to remain friends?  I think moglow is right--she'll be back like nothing ever happened, or try to make you feel like you were the one completely responsible for the rift in the friendship.  Her behavior won't change but she will expect yours to.  "Sorry you feel that way" are weasel words.  The emphasis is once again on what you feel, not on what she did.

I had a long-time best friend, someone going back to high school, who suddenly went NC with me without explanation.  I tried multiple times to contact her, to ask what's wrong etc., but  she wouldn't respond.  Years later, she contacted me through facebook.  We became FB "friends."  Then she messaged me, I recall you being critical about me over my treatment of a mutual friend with cancer.  I messaged back, that couldn't have been me because I wasn't in touch with this mutual friends at the time and only learned of her cancer several years later.  Her response was--silence.  No apology, no nothing.  She couldn't admit she'd been wrong all these years.  And all I can now think is--how pathetic. 

[moglow]

We all do and say things we wish we hadn't, and they rarely become a big issue. I don't know how many times I've sucked it up and admitted to friends what I was thinking and they responded with "Really?? You worried about that? You shouldn't have, nothing could be further from the truth! We're good, really!!" To not be able to do that - admit whats truly a misunderstanding or misstatement? With my mother, she will gleefully repeat what she said and laugh in your face about it at every opportunity, that you're hurt or offended when she intended you to be! That's a whole other level of pure old evil, in my book.

[Adria]

Thank you for your thoughts Moglow and Catothecat.

Your posts are so true.  With my friend, she is kind of a gruff personality, so I normally look over some things because I know it is just how she is. However, this time it was very severe. Maybe I should have just ghosted her, but I was hoping for some kind of acknowledgement that she hurt my feelings and we could move on.  A simple sorry, maybe.  I can never understand why it is so hard for people to say. They would rather lose a good friend than say, "I'm sorry."  Very sad to me.  Thank you so much for posting. I really appreciate what you both had to say because I keep going around and questioning everything in my mind. After what you posted, I understand that it is her problem and let her go.

[Jolie40]

I didn't want to lose her as a friend, but I couldn't let her think she could speak to me the way she did and just go on as if nothing happened.

I think some people don't even realize how harsh they can be
one of my siblings has taken on characteristics of how PD parent acted

we talk on the phone weekly
lately she's been making accusations & putting me down
I find this very stressful!  last time she did that, I didn't call her for two months
luckily, I don't give my cell no. to anyone, so she can't call me

she did it again yesterday....accusing me of this & that
so going to wait 2 mos again before calling
will she get the hint & be nicer? don't know

maybe you can do the same.......wait a while before talking with your friend?

[notrightinthehead]

I agree with you, it is sad to loose a friend. It was a kind thing of you to be open and vulnerable with her and try to tell her how you experienced the situation and how you felt. You were giving her a chance to clear the air and to improve your connection. It seems she chose not to take the opportunity. This is important information for you. You have gone as far as you could in this relationship. There are other women out there who behave differently.  We are such women.  I hope your future circle of friends will have many more of this kind.

[countrygirl]

Hi Adria,

You friend gave you what I call "the non-apology apology":  "I'm sorry you feel that way."   Total denial of responsibility.  In fact, the tables are turned, and suddenly you are the one who is in the wrong, for feeling as you do--according to such people.  You should put up with them, no matter what, because however they behave is correct. 

I'm with you.  If a friend told me I'd hurt their feelings, I would want to know what I'd done and I would apologize.   But PDs are insecure people, and they feel that an apology somehow makes them less-than perfect. 

Moglow (whose mother sounds like mine) is most likely right: Your friend will return and will ask as if nothing ever happened.  You must decide whether you want to continue to try with her; but at least she's shown you her true colors. 

[Adria]

Jolie40,
I think you are right.  This is how I feel with this friend. I don't think she sees herself for how she comes across. I hear how she speaks to her family members.  They are a pretty feisty group.  I suppose I am at a point in my life where I just don't need these kinds of condescending interactions from someone I treat very respectfully.  But, I'm sad today because generally I liked her despite all her rough edges, but apparently she didn't value our friendship as much as I have.  I'm sorry you are going through this with your sister.  I'm sure it is much more difficult with family members. 

Notrightinthehead,
You are right, it is important information to realize she chose not to take the opportunity to clear the air and improve our connection, and I guess it's better I find out sooner than later. We are at an impasse.  And yes, the women here are extraordinarily wonderful. Thank you for the kind words.  I needed that this morning.

Countrygirl,
I like that, "the non-apology apology."  I think that's it, I'm tired of always being the one to absorb their issues just to be in a relationship with these women.  I think this time it was just one too many. If she calls with an apology in the future, I would accept it, but in past dealings with her, no matter what, she is always right.  So, for now, she can be right without me.  Sounds good, but grieving the loss this morning.  Thank you for the thoughtful post.

[bloomie]

Adria - I think you handled this with grace and kindness. And truth! You care enough about this person to be honest with them about how you were experiencing their behaviors. That is true friendship. Thing is... it seems you learned this friend can't handle you taking your rightful place as an equal in the relationship and letting them know they have offended you. That's important information to have going forward.

I suspect that you have never addressed anything like this in your friendship before. And the defensive response to finding they had offended and hurt a friend was to make it about your feelings and their intentions. Your feelings - creating a problem and they are sorry you have them.  Their intentions - deemed always good. When, from where I sit on the other side of this screen, the problem was that a trusted friend plowed through the bounds of civility and respectful communication between humans and you kindly let them know that is not okay - because that is what mature adults that value themselves and others do. BRAVO!!!

She replied, I'm sorry you feel that way. I wish you the best.

Just my take on this... but, this last bit seems like a test or hook to me. Will you be uncomfortable enough with this hanging, implied 'goodbye' to pursue her and make it okay for her? Again, just how it seems to me.

When we stumble and bumble in friendships (and who hasn't) it is an opportunity for growth and to deepen the relationship if we are dealing with someone self aware enough, reasonably emotionally mature enough to work through it. You cannot do that alone. And you cannot do that with someone who then doesn't remember and needs examples and to be convinced that their behaviors are harmful. I'm with your DH on that one and call BS.

I am really sorry! This hurts and can cause so much angst. I hope today you will know that you are heard and cared about as we listen and support you. I hope you can lay this down and know you are a good and true friend. A living example of what healthy responses to unhealthy, harmful behaviors looks like. Hugs to you!!

[Amy-Rose]

I'm sorry to read this story and even more to see there are millions more out there and YOU always end up being the bad guy.
" I'm sorry you feel that way."
Ahhh that little gem that I got of my "best mate" every time I called her out on her lies. Why is it, that the more I hang around on these kinds of forms designed for people having to deal with toxic behaviour I keep hearing the same damn phrases! Different situations but the same goal. To take no responsibility for their actions/words. And you know what follows this gem in most cases. Gaslighting.

It's so hard to give advice or opinions sometimes because I don't like dissing other people's friends and I'm not keen on labelling people, but this behaviour for me was a definite red flag. And if she's happy to walk away because you make her own her words/actions it obviously didn't mean much to her. My "best friend" lost my friendship because she'd rather lose me than own up to blatantly lying to my face and then attacking the truth and trying to bust holes in it. One little lie is more important to her than the good friend I was to her! I told her to stuff it. I'd rather have no friends.

We all have to deal with people and whenever people are involved there is always Drama. That's why I stick to my wildlife. At least their drama in brief and forgotten about. Never seen a black bird gaslighting a rabbit.

[Adria]

Bloomie,

Thing is... it seems you learned this friend can't handle you taking your rightful place as an equal in the relationship and letting them know they have offended you.

Wow! That's it! You reminded me that no matter what I say, she always knows more and takes a superior attitude.  I can be pretty good at looking over these things and letting them go because I had to when I grew up in my family of origin.

but, this last bit seems like a test or hook to me. Will you be uncomfortable enough with this hanging, implied 'goodbye' to pursue her and make it okay for her? Again, just how it seems to me.

Yes, Bloomie, I felt the same way about this.  And, no, I will not persue her.

I hope today you will know that you are heard and cared about as we listen and support you. I hope you can lay this down and know you are a good and true friend. A living example of what healthy responses to unhealthy, harmful behaviors looks like.

Yes, everyone here on the forum has made me feel heard and cared about as they always do. What a great group, huh?  Thank you for saying I'm a good and true friend.  I always try my best, but many times question things when instances like this happen. Thank you for the sweet reminder, and I will take it to heart. You are very kind.

[Adria]

Amy-Rose,
Thank you for your thoughtful post.  Yes, it's like they read from the same playbook, and all use the exact same phrases. I'm sorry it went this way with your friend too. It's something I will never understand.  I guess their ego has to win above all else.

That's why I stick to my wildlife. At least their drama in brief and forgotten about. Never seen a black bird gaslighting a rabbit.

OMG!!!!!!! Rolling on the floor laughing.  Thank you for the levity.  I needed that today.

[Iamenoughmary]

Adria, so much great support here on this forum. Isn't it wonderful!  I've learned there are some people who we just can't get through to.  We give it our all and as you said  they always need to be superior and know more.  It's sad. They don't ever see anyone's feelings other than their own.  Why can't they say "sorry"  . I have the same type friend.  It goes back to them wanting to be superior or having it 'their way'   I've never had trouble saying "sorry"  I also found that the few  friends I have are "fair weather" friends.  You are a good friend and you did the right thing! I love Amy-Rose saying "stick with wildlife"   Oh soo true!   

Blessings to you 

[Adria]

neverehoughmary,
Yes, Mary, the support here is something out of this world.  I only wish we could all meet in person.  Wouldn't that be grand?  I'm coming to the realization, lately, that I put way too much energy into people that don't care or appreciate it. So, slowly, I'm trying to change that. My dh says, my only problem is I care too much. And, like you, my friends seem to be fair weather friends as well.  I don't understand it.  If I'm your friend, I will go to the ends of the earth for you.

Thank you for your kind words. I think, today, I will go for a walk in the woods and look for some wildlife. Maybe I'll see you there,