Guidance, please

[DaisyGirl77]

Last year, in late spring/early summer, I went temporarily NC with a woman I'll call Spirit Mom (SM).  She's diagnosed bipolar (but heavily suspected uBPD), on medication.  She had a psychotic bipolar episode this time last year, in which I & a mutual friend had to go to her house & get her cooperative enough to board the ambulance for "dehydration".  She checked herself into the psych ward from there & stayed there for a week.  The result:  I spent that whole week running myself into the ground managing her life for her along with my own.  The "thanks" I got was her dragging me & another mutual friend, along with SM's boyfriend to the casino for the day because she wanted to celebrate her release from the ward.  Problem:  I'm not at all a gambler, & I was bored to death after about 2 hours into our day.  That was it.  I'm not disappointed or dissatisfied with the thanks; this is just to illustrate the situation a bit.  She also asked that same mutual friend & I keep an eye on her for any red flag behavior since we were the closest to her.

Fast forward a few months.  Her behavior's become erratic so I warn her son that his mom's spiraling again & to start preparing.  The ensuing drama ended with her telling me not to talk to her for 48 hours because she's angry & "busy".  I went NC with her after she snapped at me in a group text for sending a photo of my cat & wishing everyone a happy Saturday.  She retaliated a week later by leaving a grossly warm drink from Dunkin' at my door when she came by to take her house key back.  In early Fall, she left a note offering me a ride to & from Mutual Friend's house on a weekend for a visit & to surprise said friend.  I never responded.

Which leads me to a few weeks ago.  I initiated a step of re-adding her on Facebook as a first step back toward reestablishing our friendship, albeit with new boundaries.  Mutual Friend told me SM wouldn't accept it until I texted her verifying it actually was me & I wasn't hacked.  Whatever.  I did that.  & it's been rainbow farts & unicorns since.  There's been no mention at all of discussing what happened, so I've been holding her at, like, several football fields' length, lol.  Mutual Friend says that's not how SM rolls; she sweeps it all under the rug & says sorry in other ways.  But I can't do that.  That's how my parents did sorry & I've made a promise to myself to do better.  So I've composed a note in my phone that I'm undecided on sending & am hoping I can get feedback from all you folk here before I send the final product.  I need to get this out in the open & we need to talk before I can move her back somewhere into my orbit.  Here goes...

[SM], I know you want to continue as if everything is fluff & unicorns but we really do need to talk.  I went no contact because you were so angry (& that's okay) that you were trying to make me hurt as badly as you were hurting.  & that's not okay.  At all.  I need you to know that if you talk to me like that again I will not be sticking around anymore.  I deserve to be treated with respect regardless of whatever negative feelings you might hold toward me.  That's just basic courtesy.

That being said, I need to apologize for the way I handled going no contact with you.  You deserved better.  I'm sorry for that.  (<-- Has been the subject of heavy debate between me & Sis2 who vehemently believes I have nothing to apologize for.  I apologized because I don't like just ghosting people: it's a matter of respect & dignity for me.)

You said you were disappointed I didn't accept your olive branch.  To be honest, I didn't see it as such.  I saw it as being held hostage in your car for ~45 minutes with no way to leave if the conversation went south.

Lastly, I'm letting you know now that your sons need to handle your life if you are ever hospitalized again.  I will make sure you're safe if you go off the rails, but I will not be  doing anything else.  [Sons' names] need to take up the rest.

Have at me with your thoughts & observations, folks.

[Catothecat]

I would offer--let history be your guide here, Daisy.  Have you made such comments in the past and has she responded to them reasonably or with a willingness to listen?  Or does she sweep everything under the rug, as your mutual friend said? 

In someone with this type of disorder(s), it can be very difficult to reason with them because what you say and what they hear can be two different things.  Sometimes it's better not to say anything, but to let your behavior show your intention.  Instead of going all-out to help her, offer help in a limited way and then keep it there.  Tell her you're willing to do some things for her, but not others and she really needs to rely more on her son.  I don't know that going into a discussion over her behavior, how you feel about her behavior, etc. will do much good.  Whether or not she is in denial, just doesn't get it, or gets it but doesn't want to admit she gets it, is almost beside the point because her behavior seems consistent regardless, and will probably remain so. 

Personally, I wouldn't send the note.  With some people, you have to admit that you're sometimes powerless to deal with them but that doesn't make you a bad friend. 

[moglow]

I admittedly don't do confrontations well, but to me some things need to said be face to face or not at all, so there's no misunderstanding. She may not like it and that's okay - you don't like the way things went down between you either. When it comes to confronting anything writing, I'm very much a KISS [keep it short and simple] person. I'll write it out and edit, then edit some more. My theory is, the less information I give the less that can be turned to ammunition for later.

Do you need to tell her what you'll do if/when "next time" occurs? Not necessarily. Your boundary is your stuff, not hers. I think the crux of it is feeling you have to explain yourself - you don't. Really. No means no, and you're totally at liberty to not take or answer any calls or messages you chose, again without explanation.

Remember too - you reached out to her this time. I'm assuming she has not in the past several months, and if so that tells me she knows she screwed up, may even realize you're willing and able to call her on it. If she refuses to hear you out, that tells you what you need to know. Accept that's who she is and whether or not you're willing to settle for it. You might not be - and that's okay.

[DaisyGirl77]

I would offer--let history be your guide here, Daisy.  Have you made such comments in the past and has she responded to them reasonably or with a willingness to listen?  Or does she sweep everything under the rug, as your mutual friend said? 

In someone with this type of disorder(s), it can be very difficult to reason with them because what you say and what they hear can be two different things.  Sometimes it's better not to say anything, but to let your behavior show your intention.  Instead of going all-out to help her, offer help in a limited way and then keep it there.  Tell her you're willing to do some things for her, but not others and she really needs to rely more on her son.  I don't know that going into a discussion over her behavior, how you feel about her behavior, etc. will do much good.  Whether or not she is in denial, just doesn't get it, or gets it but doesn't want to admit she gets it, is almost beside the point because her behavior seems consistent regardless, and will probably remain so. 

Personally, I wouldn't send the note.  With some people, you have to admit that you're sometimes powerless to deal with them but that doesn't make you a bad friend.

Thanks, Cat.  I'd say that we've had exactly 2...fights, I guess...in the time we've been friends.  I started calling her Spirit Mom when we met almost 10 years ago at our workplace (she still works there; I've long since moved on) & found that we had some eerily similar experiences in our lives & bonded that way.  On the surface, she's extremely gregarious, charming, very generous with her time & money (overly so, at times), expressive of love ("I love you" & hugs is something she gives a million times a day), & is very sweet.  But she also has extreme difficulty accepting other people's no to some plan she wants to do, to the point where she'll continue to push until they cave or they snap at her.  She needs to have the attention/spotlight on her (not a problem cuz I'm a hermit-like introvert) & is somewhat detrimental because she'll push someone else to the side to ensure the attention's on her.  But she's so funny & sweet that it...somehow gets overlooked & forgiven?  I hope that makes sense.  In any case, after the first "fight" which happened when she gave me a ton of really nice things for my birthday one year & I'd mentioned having trouble getting this bit of adhesive off an item & would tackle it in the morning...  Well.  It was like WW3 came at me.  I was attacked.  I was told I was never grateful & she never heard "thank you" cross my lips (I said it an excessive amount of times that day), that I never appreciate anything she ever does (????), that I'm extremely difficult to shop for (untrue), & a helluva lot more that Sis2 is aware of & I'm not because I stopped reading the texts & asked her to read the whole thing & tell me anything important I needed to know (there wasn't) & had her delete all of them so I didn't have to see it.  She also told me not to speak to her for 48 hours.  I left it alone for a week, feeling like I was going to vomit the whole time.  That was the first time I learned how she operates:  As soon as her timeout to the person she's mad at is up, the thing never happens & life goes on as normal...for her.  Meanwhile, there's absolutely no resolution for the person she's angry at.  It's gone.  She doesn't want to talk about it & will refuse to talk about it until the person gives up & gives her what she wants.

Looking back, I stopped considering her my spirit mom at that time, but she's continued to refer to me as her spirit daughter since.  In all honesty, I never should've allowed the Spirit Mom/Daughter thing to happen, but I'd just come back to my state after escaping from my dad's abusive mom (story in signature) & landed in uNM's home with my sisters whose actions told me they didn't want me there, & I was accused of a ton of things I'd never done &/or my actions twisted to look even worse than they were in order to force me out, & I was so incredibly damaged that I was just clinging to any piece of kindness I could find.  I was desperate for a mother figure, & SM filled the spot for me because she was the total opposite of uNM.  Additionally, she was the catalyst to opening my eyes to the pattern of older women who try to smother me in unwanted & unasked for mothering.  As they say, hindsight's 20/20.

We have had some serious talks, but nothing that's ever been talked about after one of these things.  As I've said, this is only the second time we've had this issue, so this is pretty good, considering.  I think of the first one a "freebie".  Mutual Friend has known SM since they were just shy of 18 & they're in their 60s now--she says this is a lifelong pattern for SM.  She never talks about it, she never says sorry, but she'll demonstrate she's sorry by doing some extra caring things instead.  Mutual Friend also thinks that me going NC will result in SM stopping referring to me as her spirit daughter but, again, that remains to be seen since all I've done so far is respond to the texts she's initiated.

Ideally, I'd like to be friends with SM again, but on a more even footing.  She won't be back in my inner circle like before, but I do care for her & would like her in my life, with some changes.  I'm fully aware of the possibility that this may not happen, & I'm okay with this, too.  I'll just be a bit sad of the effect it'll have on our friend group for a little bit, is all.

[DaisyGirl77]

I admittedly don't do confrontations well, but to me some things need to said be face to face or not at all, so there's no misunderstanding. She may not like it and that's okay - you don't like the way things went down between you either. When it comes to confronting anything writing, I'm very much a KISS [keep it short and simple] person. I'll write it out and edit, then edit some more. My theory is, the less information I give the less that can be turned to ammunition for later.

Do you need to tell her what you'll do if/when "next time" occurs? Not necessarily. Your boundary is your stuff, not hers. I think the crux of it is feeling you have to explain yourself - you don't. Really. No means no, and you're totally at liberty to not take or answer any calls or messages you chose, again without explanation.

Remember too - you reached out to her this time. I'm assuming she has not in the past several months, and if so that tells me she knows she screwed up, may even realize you're willing and able to call her on it. If she refuses to hear you out, that tells you what you need to know. Accept that's who she is and whether or not you're willing to settle for it. You might not be - and that's okay.

Thanks, Moglow.  I appreciate the KISS tip--I'm overly explanatory & it's a thing I've been trying to work on, with limited results, lol.  I also appreciate all the points you raised, & it's making me rethink my note.  Our conversations are usually via text which is why I wrote it out.  From what I hear, she's even busier than she used to be, which is good--she needs that.  But that also makes it harder to have a face to face conversation.  (Like you, I don't like confrontations, & in-person ones make my anxiety spike a ton.)  Since text seems to be the best option, I'll do it, & it'll be harder for her to avoid the fact that I said XYZ when she has it in print in front of her face & she can refer back to it whenever she needs to.

She did reach out in early Fall.  She left a note offering to bring me to & from Mutual Friend's house ~20 minutes away (one way) to surprise her as she had a rough patch in her life & needed some cheering up.  IIRC, the note said something like "We don't have to be friends if you don't want to, but I know [Mutual Friend] would love to see you."  That was it.  There was no apology or anything, just her going into a little detail on what she had planned, that sort of thing, & she left her number for me to call or text her if I wanted to come with.  But I never responded.  I talked it over with my therapist who came to the same conclusion I did:  spending time in a moving car with no safe way to exit the situation should things go bad isn't a good idea.  I called it "being trapped".  My therapist called it "holding you hostage."  Lol.  If she'd apologized at the time, then I think I would've take her up on it & gone, but she didn't.

[moglow]

Understood - can you provide your message via email or messenger perhaps? My thought is, sent via text it's likely going to be chopped up into x total characters per message and she could well melt down on the first before seeing anything that comes after. If she's anything like my mother [and some of what you shared points in that direction] she'll see offensive the instant she's confronted and she's off to the races demanding explanations before you can take a breath. Your overall message could well be lost in senseless demands over semantics. Remember, someone who wants to be offended will be, no matter your intention. A strong willed individual may go immediately on the defensive with accusations.

If you can, say it then let it go for a bit, don't respond to anything until the fur has settled a bit. Nothing. If she's immediately all irate and demanding, that may be as far as you get. It's always possible you'd get "OMG I had no idea I'd hurt you like that, I honestly just reacted and didn't think it through. I'm so sorry - how can we fix this?" or you could get the polar opposite where she goes volcanic. Either way, you still get to wait it out while you decide what's best for you. You'd have had your say and the ball is back in her court. YOU decide what is needed then.

And the hostage situation? Been there done that and absolutely agree. I got trapped into one by my brother years back when mother insisted she ride with me after a funeral service - cornered me basically - which meant me taking her back to her car later. I don't do that anymore. I'd meet her anywhere, but getting away when she's dependent on me or vice versa for transportation is just not an option anymore.

As soon as her timeout to the person she's mad at is up, the thing never happens & life goes on as normal...for her.  Meanwhile, there's absolutely no resolution for the person she's angry at.  It's gone.  She doesn't want to talk about it & will refuse to talk about it until the person gives up & gives her what she wants.

THIS is painfully familiar! And now you can stop it whenever you're ready.

[DaisyGirl77]

Understood - can you provide your message via email or messenger perhaps? My thought is, sent via text it's likely going to be chopped up into x total characters per message and she could well melt down on the first before seeing anything that comes after. If she's anything like my mother [and some of what you shared points in that direction] she'll see offensive the instant she's confronted and she's off to the races demanding explanations before you can take a breath. Your overall message could well be lost in senseless demands over semantics. Remember, someone who wants to be offended will be, no matter your intention. A strong willed individual may go immediately on the defensive with accusations.

If you can, say it then let it go for a bit, don't respond to anything until the fur has settled a bit. Nothing. If she's immediately all irate and demanding, that may be as far as you get. It's always possible you'd get "OMG I had no idea I'd hurt you like that, I honestly just reacted and didn't think it through. I'm so sorry - how can we fix this?" or you could get the polar opposite where she goes volcanic. Either way, you still get to wait it out while you decide what's best for you. You'd have had your say and the ball is back in her court. YOU decide what is needed then.

And the hostage situation? Been there done that and absolutely agree. I got trapped into one by my brother years back when mother insisted she ride with me after a funeral service - cornered me basically - which meant me taking her back to her car later. I don't do that anymore. I'd meet her anywhere, but getting away when she's dependent on me or vice versa for transportation is just not an option anymore.

As soon as her timeout to the person she's mad at is up, the thing never happens & life goes on as normal...for her.  Meanwhile, there's absolutely no resolution for the person she's angry at.  It's gone.  She doesn't want to talk about it & will refuse to talk about it until the person gives up & gives her what she wants.

THIS is painfully familiar! And now you can stop it whenever you're ready.

Thanks, Moglow.  I took a bit more to consider what I wanted to convey & ended up sending an almost completely different text this morning.  (Our phones can handle sending long texts at once, & messages aren't broken up.)  To summarize what I sent, I kept the first paragraph roughly the same, removed all the boundary things, left the olive branch paragraph mostly the same (minor word/phrase changes), & added a third paragraph that stated that I care, hope she's doing well, & ideally we'd find some new common ground but would also honor her wishes if she had something else in mind.

She fired back with the following:  She didn't want to be friends anymore because she doesn't want me to have a bipolar friend.  She's on two "amazing" medications.  She blamed me for not asking her to lunch or coffee to talk things over & was sad I was hurting, but she also hurts when her friends hurt & she doesn't want me to hurt so goodbye, have a wonderful life, & reach out if I have an emergency & need help.  Then had a parting shot that I chose to text her (which I did because she asked me to via Mutual Friend in order to verify that my Facebook request was really me & I wasn't a scammer).  Lol.  I told her I wished her the best & said goodbye.  I then reached out to our mutual friend group with screenshots of the conversation so we were all on the same page.  Hopefully this doesn't affect future gatherings when COVID finally gets under control, but we'll see.

So that's that, I guess.