So my mother had stage 3 cancer, and stopped chemo. I assume without treatment she will die sooner. I have had very , very limited contact. I have tried to talk her in the past about my feelings and how she hurts me but she either says what I have done.( had relationships with husbands family. Mom is extremely jealous), justifies it or doesn't remember. She never acknowledges it or says she is sorry. Knowing that she may die soon I was thinking of writing her and telling her how I feel, how I was hurt, how I feel unloved . It's crazy but I thought maybe one last ditch effort before I can't ever again. I'm not stupid I know that she will either get mad, ignore it or attack me, BUT there is that hope that she will acknowledge me. I'm I totally crazy? Talking to her makes me upset. But my father just died, no funeral because of covid and just feeling the finality of everything.
Im sorry for the loss of your father.
Thats a really hard situation you are in.
I dont have the answer.
I also have an ubpd/spd M who wont admit let alone apologise. She deflected and darvo'd when I tried to talk to her about how hurt I was because of her abuse.
I wonder about letters too.
I probabaly won't send them even if I do write.
Sorry you're going through this. My mother is the same way...justifies or doesn't remember and never apologizes. I've tried telling her what she did and said to make me upset and I get the "you're too sensitive".
You have tried talking to her in the past. It obviously didn't work then. Odds are it's not going to work now, Regardless of her state of health.
My take is, you didn't break it, so it's not your job to fix it. It's her job to repent, especially on a deathbed.
Knowing how these PD people react, I wouldn't expect a letter to fix anything. Sad as it is, I have a feeling your mother would do as she's always done, get mad, ignore or attack you. It would be wonderful if she were to say I'm sorry, I wish I could change how I handled things. I just don't see her completely changing how she's reacted in the past.
If you want to send the letter to get out all you feelings about her treatment of you, then I say go for it. You could even write it and then stick it in a drawer. I'm a little scared that you would send all your deepest feelings and expect a better outcome than what I think you'd get.
I'm sorry about your father's passing and especially during covid with no funeral.
Hi Ariel,
I literally just went through this – my uPD M died a week ago today. Really sorry you're going through this, just after having lost your dad as well.
I'm not stupid I know that she will either get mad, ignore it or attack me, BUT there is that hope that she will acknowledge me.
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. I think the short answer is: whatever her reaction was before is what its going to be now. Dying isn't going to change it or suddenly make her see the light. If you feel like it would make you feel better to send it, then I would, but I wouldn't have any new expectations, unfortunately.
I wrote M a letter before I went NC about 18 months ago. It was just fact based, no 'I feel' statements, about things that were totally unacceptable. One of the things I mentioned was this incident:
My dad was terminally ill with cancer and they had decided to.sell the house and move across the country to be closer to me (only child). M was initially excited, then decided she 'was scared and didn't want to go', gobbling down Xanax like they were candy, and ending up with my dying dad taking care of her because she kept falling and finally ending up in the hospital. I had to fly across the country, get her out of the hospital, and then clean out their house they'd lived in for 35 years by myself because she was throwing her 'I'm scared' pouting fit and doing absolutely nothing to help. When I told her about the events leading up to the hospital (which she didn't remember) she told me that she'd 'decided that didn't happen' and that 'I was making her feel like she should slit her own throat'. That day we went to her therapists and the therapist invited me into the session (she'd been seeing this woman for years). The therapist read her the riot act in front of me, told her she was acting like her own mother (who M despised and blamed for everything) and that she was behaving like a toddler throwing a tantrum on the floor while I did all the work. It was quite something. Of course M tuned it all out and never mentioned it again.
Why am I telling you this? Because I knew that M had written a half assed response to my letter and I found her notes she'd written yesterday. There were some real gems in it about it wasn't her fault that she never asked how I was doing after my dad died because I seemed 'so strong' that she didn't think it bothered me. :stars: And eventually she got around to the therapists office, and you know what she said? That the therapist had this statue of a mother and daughter holding hands and how sweet that was and wasn't that nice. And that's what she remembered. That's it. Just pretend like none of it ever happened. And then she'd go back to going through her address book and calling everyone in it that she was the best mother in the world and that I was crazy/a liar/mentally unstable/childish/selfish/cold hearted and there 'had always been something wrong with me' and that she wasn't going to apologize because she'd never done anything wrong.
My H always said she would take her reality with her to the grave and boy did she. If your M is truly PD (sure sounds like it, btw) she will most likely do the same. A hallmark of the disorder is a total inability to admit mistakes or self reflect. As I said, if it makes you feel better I'd say whatever you need to, but don't expect her dying to give her any more insight.
Sorry this situation sucks so much, but you will get through it!
:bighug:
I have no advice to offer, just so sorry you're going through this. It sucks. It's a sucky position to be in. No one deserves to suffer like this. Much love to you, as you journey through this difficult stage of your life. :bighug:
Thanks for your responses. My friend said the same advice to me, Although she said not to send a letter because it will only get a negative response. If I send anything just say "t love you" if that's how I feel . This really sucks because I thought I was handling this. I felt better and happier not talking to her. But I felt like time was running out and really wanted to hear her say she really loved me, realizing loved me was sorry. I guess it just means y have more healing to do. I miss my dad but w know he loved me. Just feeling really 😢
Quote from: Psuedonym on June 05, 2020, 10:58:47 AM
And then she'd go back to going through her address book and calling everyone in it that she was the best mother in the world and that I was crazy/a liar/mentally unstable/childish/selfish/cold hearted and there 'had always been something wrong with me' and that she wasn't going to apologize because she'd never done anything wrong.
My H always said she would take her reality with her to the grave and boy did she. If your M is truly PD (sure sounds like it, btw) she will most likely do the same. A hallmark of the disorder is a total inability to admit mistakes or self reflect. As I said, if it makes you feel better I'd say whatever you need to, but don't expect her dying to give her any more insight.
:yeahthat:
I have heard this so many times. Even though each personality disorder or enabler who tells this kind of tale seem to really believe they are describing a unique to them situation.
The claim is
there was just something wrong with the child from the beginning . There is no need to analize the parents behavor, even
if they made mistakes that is not the real issue. The real issue is the o so problematic child, who was obviously
born different and broken so there never was a hope for them.
I am just thinking when I hear this that the personlity disorder or enabler dont realize what they are admitting to since if they believed that there was something wrong with their child any good enough parent would have got help or treatment for the child, but that is never part of the story.
It is so sick!
I would prepare yourself for this as a possible outcome. She may start projecting her brokeness onto you with tales that she knew you were broken all your life and trying to call her out on her behavior prooves it. ime
How unnerving to have to loose both parents so close. Please find people to talk to about all of this. You deserve support.
When I lost my parents at different times I wanted THEM to take care of me through it even though they never could meet my emotional expectations. I feel everyone needs their parents... good, bad, ugly.
Feelings will change, but the moments you spend now may be the most precious. My mother was abusive to me as a child, and I would not even hug or kiss her for years.
She died and it was the beginning of a tailspin for me, because we had no real relationship. I was kind, helpful and attentive to her when she needed someone to care. I do not regret it.
It took years to forgive her. Unfinished business will make you do irrational things. Get some support from people not emotionally involved.
You get to get to be the better person here. She cannot take care of you at all. She is not herself, and even if she was...you know her. Love can come from unexpected sources. When you can separate yourself from who she is, and how she has treated you... you may see a woman who is also in need.
Say your prayers and do what is right not what feels good. You will be a better person in the end.
I pray your deepest needs are met.
Most of us here know that whether you decide to write the letter or not has absolutely nothing to do with doing "the right thing'"or that either of those choices is going to make you "a better person" than your mother.
IME and IMO neither of those ideas are relevant to your situation.
Whatever you decide their is absolutely NO guilt in taking care of yourself. If you need to write a letter then do so for yourself. Whatever honors your feelings, gives you comfort, and /or brings you closure. This is about you! This is about your greif, regrets, hopes, and needs!
Ariel, my deepest condolences for your loss and everything you're now dealing with. I know it's not an easy path, losing a beloved parent, but now facing the loss of the other [however dysfunctional she may be] - I just don't know where I'd be.
Grief takes different paths for each of us. While you're no doubt mourning the loss of your father, understand that grieving exacerbates every other feeling and relationship you have. I can't see where it *wouldn't" do that. Your normal isn't right now, and the new normal may have a very different face from everything you've known before. I'm painfully familiar with Elizabeth Kubler-Ross' five stages of grief and can tell you, it's not necessarily a linear predictable process for anyone. You may well rampage back and forth through half the stages, skip right over another then go back and do over, picking up something new along the way. I know I did when Daddy passed.
The professionals tell us to HALT - to not make major decisions or do anything rash when we're Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired. There's good reasoning in that, and if you're anything like me, you're all over all of those right now and honestly you may be for a while yet. What I'm saying is to be gentle with yourself, learn to slow down and think things through this process. It's not going to be easy, and I'd hate for you to complicate it by saying things you wish you hadn't.
Know that whatever your truth, you've told your mother before. Telling her again now, when she's even more vulnerable, isn't likely to change things and might actually leave you with regrets you don't need. THAT's my concern - what it does to *you*. By all means write it out! Write it over and over until you can't write anymore - then burn it if you must. For me there's something cathartic in burning my angry words, seeing them go away to ashes.
Your mother has failed you and that's a fact. Nothing can change that but you can change where you go from here. Do the best for YOU, not for her or anyone else. Know that we're here with you no matter what. :hug:
This forum , all of you have been my lifeline. Thanks for being there. I did something stupid. I called my mom, just wanted to see how she was doing. My sister yelled at me continually in the background, F... you! My mother proceeded to tell me I didn’t care although I said I did. She said I’m not therefor her . I said I was there and you accused me of try to steal your dogs and take your things and take control of you. All unfounded. Based on my sisters lies. And just went off on me. I talked with my nephew and he said for years she put me down. I thought I was ok. But I realize I had hope that she would say she loved me and acknowledge my feelings. Stupid. I know better. Now I’m just so depressed. Don’t know if it’s losing my dad, realizing I will never have the mom who loves me or everything.wish I never called
Oh ariel! Im so sorry. :'(
You are NOT stupid! It is not stupid to hope your M would mend things with you before she dies. :no: Thats what non disordered people do! IME But pd's from even their death beds with their dying breaths spew vile, abusive, retoric :mad: to prove "it was all you, I am innoccent, pure, and have done no wrong."
Please have compassion for yourself. Think of ariel the child. The little girl who an adult disordered woman abused for years and years while the child was helpless and had no way to defend herself! She deserves protection now. :ninja: She deserves peace! :cloud9:
You now have the answer you needed. You are free. Ime your greiving begins now instead of when your mother passes away. This is so hard. I know. None of this is your fault. You ARE a good person! You are worthy!
Now is the time to put you first. Give yourself the love, compassion, and empathy that you didn't recieve and that you wanted to give your mother. Ime she is broken, this is her legacy. Your legacy can be healing. You can do this. Do it for little Ariel!
I hope you are able to get some rest and take really good care of yourself. :bighug:
Thank you Peanut Butter. Feeling better in the morning. Had a good cry last night. I thought that I had accepted that she wouldn't change but unfortunately had hope because of her deteriorating health. You're right now I know. I am going to try to move on.
I'm sorry you're so hurt and hope that cry helped get most of it out. When you can, be glad you called - She's lashing out (again) and showing you who she is, confirming how you got where you are. I try to look at those outbursts as a gift, a reaffirmation that I'm doing the right thing for me, that my presence isn't wanted and would likely only be resented. On a sad level that actually helps me...eventually. It helps me find acceptance.
You deserve better. :hug:
Quote from: moglow on June 07, 2020, 07:45:12 AM
I'm sorry you're so hurt and hope that cry helped get most of it out. When you can, be glad you called - She's lashing out (again) and showing you who she is, confirming how you got where you are. I try to look at those outbursts as a gift, a reaffirmation that I'm doing the right thing for me, that my presence isn't wanted and would likely only be resented. On a sad level that actually helps me...eventually. It helps me find acceptance.
You deserve better. :hug:
:yeahthat:
Having a cry is necessary and can be helpful. I know I have felt a release of stuck pain sometimes after a cry.
Treat yourself gently. You deserve extra tenderness right now. Come back here often if it helps. I do. :hug:
Ariel,
You are not stupid. You tried one more time before your mother passes. You did something very brave, courageous and noble. You may have even felt worse if she died and you didn't try. You did something a kind, caring and loving person would do. Please don't fault yourself for that. You are the bigger person, a much bigger person.
Also, people who have been on chemo for awhile can get something called chemo brain, which can make them act out. Chances are your mom could have been in a worse state of mind because of that.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad and now possibly the loss of your mother. It is so hard grieving what we wished we'd had and didn't. Be patient and kind with yourself as you process everything. You sound like a pretty special person, therefore, they are the ones who lost out. Hugs, Adria
Quote from: Adria on June 08, 2020, 09:36:28 AM
Ariel,
You are not stupid. You tried one more time before your mother passes. You did something very brave, courageous and noble. You may have even felt worse if she died and you didn't try. You did something a kind, caring and loving person would do. Please don't fault yourself for that. You are the bigger person, a much bigger person.
Also, people who have been on chemo for awhile can get something called chemo brain, which can make them act out. Chances are your mom could have been in a worse state of mind because of that.
I'm so sorry for the loss of your dad and now possibly the loss of your mother. It is so hard grieving what we wished we'd had and didn't. Be patient and kind with yourself as you process everything. You sound like a pretty special person, therefore, they are the ones who lost out. Hugs, Adria
:yeahthat:
Ariel - sending you my support. I am sorry about the passing of your dad too. I understand you must be processing such a range of emotions right now.
Please do not add the burden of thinking you did anything wrong on top of everything else. You were not wrong to have called your mother. It actually is a very rational thing to have done. I think your desire to have reached out is something many of us share. The fact that your effort was not well received is not your responsibility, not your fault, and nothing you need to carry.
You now have added clarity. You now know where things stand as your mother's health condition takes it course. I hope that gives some level of peace.
Hi Ariel!
I'm really sorry about your many layers of grief. You have been through (are going through) a lot and it was very gracious of you to want to try to come to some kind of peace with your mom. You can only control your thoughts and actions and those were from a good place, so you have nothing to regret or be ashamed of. I hope you can treat yourself with extra lovingkindness in the days ahead and find peace. I think my Nmom's healing will only come when she crosses over -- and that is a hard pill to swallow! If you're a person of prayer or faith or high ideals, just whisper well-wishes on the wind, knowing that putting out good thoughts will help your heart mend. :hug:
I'm so sorry about the passing of your father. And now this with your mother on top of it. It's a lot to handle and it's ok to feel overwhelmed. Self care is important. So many of us grew up codependent trying to please the pd parent that we are only now learning what self care is all about.
I will tell you, finally in your heart accepting that your parent will never change, never turn into someone who values you, loves you, appreciates you....it's extremely difficult. We by nature want to believe they care. I mean isn't that what parents are supposed to do? Even now, I'm almost there but I still get tripped up once in a while, still get disappointed over some outrageously hurtful thing my father does. The thing is now it happens less frequently. I expect nothing from him, no kindness, no concern, no love. He doesn't have it to give. Sounds like your mother doesn't either. I know he tells people I don't like him and he's right. I love him as a human being but like him, I do not. I want what's best for him but spending time with him, I will not unless necessary. Your mother appears to be damaging to your well-being (as my father is to mine) and unless she has a change of personality due to some brain disorder that won't change. People die as they lived.
I too would get off the phone just dumbfounded, like what just happened here. You start with good intentions and it quickly turns into a nightmare. She will not see your side, ever, if she has a true pd. They are resistant to change, can't self reflect and almost never take responsibility for their actions. In fact, they project that blame onto others every chance they get.
It's been said before and it's true that we as adults need to heal those childhood wounds. Whatever love you wish she had for you, give it to yourself. Appreciate the fact that you can love, you have empathy and you are a good person no matter what she says. It's hard always trying to be the peacemaker in dysfunctional families. We often grow up with too much empathy, reflexes like a tiger at the first sign of an argument, and the overwhelming desire to please people so we can get validation that yes, we matter.
I'm not sure if you're in therapy but I would suggest it to help work through this stuff. I've been going for almost two years. It helps.
Hugs to you! Hang in there.
Dear Ariel,
My heart hurts so bad for you and what you're going through. I lost my Dad in late 2011. He was the good parent, but I was left with the uBPD "mother". I feel like you need to write your letter, even if you never send it. It's important that you put your anguish into words, but sending it would probably fall on deaf ears. As someone else said, "A hallmark of the disorder is a total inability to admit mistakes or self reflect." Truer words were never spoken! Write your letter, but share it only with those who support and love you!
:bighug:
Thanks for the support . Let's just say it sucks having a mom like mine . She called left a voicemail mail saying my sister is brainwashing her into believing she is the only one who is and was there and that she should get everything. She said my sister orchestrated everything and wants everything for herself. But my mom never said sorry or took responsibility for her actions. She is still the victim. I called her she is still woe is me , all about her no responsibility for her actions. No empathy for me. She wouldn't let her unemployed, pregnant granddaughter who was beaten by her husband come live with her. She won't take outside help. She is horrible and I'm done. Maybe there is a reason, I know she was neglected and abused but I'm sorry I can't fix her and I can't take it . Thanks for your support
Oh Ariel,
How heartbreaking. Having a parent die without ever having said sorry or acknowledged the hurt, still behaving badly at the very end... It's awful.
Don't listen to any guilt that comes up about the sadness of her life - like you said, you can't control that, but you owe it to yourself to be on your own side.
Lots of love to you ❤️❤️
Im so sorry for this very painful time you are going through.
IMO turn on the compassion for yourself as much as you can. You are a valuable unique individual. You deserve unconditional love and it is your right to be cared about without having to 'earn' it in any way!
One thought that came to my mind when I read this
Quote from: Ariel on July 02, 2020, 08:28:18 AM
Thanks for the support . Let's just say it sucks having a mom like mine . She called left a voicemail mail saying my sister is brainwashing her into believing she is the only one who is and was there and that she should get everything. She said my sister orchestrated everything and wants everything for herself. But my mom never said sorry or took responsibility for her actions. She is still the victim. I called her she is still woe is me , all about her no responsibility for her actions. No empathy for me. She wouldn't let her unemployed, pregnant granddaughter who was beaten by her husband come live with her. She won't take outside help. She is horrible and I'm done. Maybe there is a reason, I know she was neglected and abused but I'm sorry I can't fix her and I can't take it . Thanks for your support
It strikes me as 'off' that M has this level of awareness of the "brainwashing" by S, but is still influenced by it?
IME when one is under the control of someone who is manipulative "brainwashing" the influence would decrease as awareness is increased.
Most 'brainwashed' people would have no idea they are brainwashed. IME a brainwashed person wouldn't say: "I know Im being brainwashed but because Im brainwashed I believe what Im being brainwashed to believe." :wacko:
Now this opinion is based on Im only getting a very small snapshot of this dynamic that you shared so I could be way off. IDK
:hug:
Peanut butter, you're right she is not brainwashed she is just dumping responsibility for her actions on someone else. She gets mad at my sister and then blames her. They made up so my sister is golden again
IMO you can benefit youself greatly by not responding to you M's manipulations of you especially if she is specifically trying to distract you and deflect S is manipulating her.
An example imo: "Well M im sorry to hear that but that is between you and S and im going to stay out of it." Change subject.
Good luck.