Same old, same old after 4+ years NC

[NotHelplessNow]

Yesterday I got a card from my NM.  I've been NC for 4 years and the only way she has to contact me any more is by mail.  I have blocked her on all social media.  She has set up at least 7 different FB accounts and friended me from them so I had to block her 7 separate times.  She used to send emails asking for recipes or an address or something, pretending that nothing was wrong at all.  Never once has she asked anything about why I might be NC or if I'm ok.

Anyway, the cards are usually sent to the wrong address so I get them after the holiday or whatever date she was trying to ruin for me which is nice I guess.  She has only written something in the cards twice.  At 6 months NC, she said we need to get together to "forgive each other".  Yesterday I got a card that said she is old and frail and going to die soon (just FYI, she's 77 and not sick that I know of, and trust me - I would have heard!).  Also, I shouldn't contact her because I feel guilty about any of this but because I love her. 

I'm really just looking for some understanding from you guys I guess.  I haven't been on the forum for a while but last night I came on and read a bunch of posts that were similar and it was really helpful. It's scary how alike all of these PDs are!  I guess some tiny part of me still can't believe that she really is this messed up.  It's the main reason I still read the cards (although I might stop after this one!).  Last week I was talking in therapy about how NC can sometimes make me forget how bad she is.  I guess the universe heard me and sent me a reminder!

[openskyblue]

Not to sound too persnickity, but I have to point out that technically, you are not NC with your mother. So long as you are reading those cards, you are allowing her to have contact with you.

As much as you may find value in reading her cards (to be reminded again that she is disordered), it seems that it may pose a risk to you. She can write anything to you that you are choosing to expose yourself to when you read her words. As someone once told me, you can't unread what you've already read, and not reading something at all is sometimes the stronger protective measure.

It sounds like you many be grappling with shutting off this last open path of communication -- and I have a lot of sympathy for you around that.  Good luck to you. This sounds very hard.

[NotHelplessNow]

Not to sound too persnickity, but I have to point out that technically, you are not NC with your mother. So long as you are reading those cards, you are allowing her to have contact with you.

It's not persnickety at all!  I was thinking the same thing myself actually.  Am I really NC if I still read the cards?  I do wonder if I'm still hoping for some sort of apology or understanding on her part.  I keep thinking that I know better now than to hope for the impossible but I'm not sure there's another reason to bother reading her garbage.  I get upset just seeing the cards though and I'm not sure how to handle that part.  They bother me even if I don't read them.   

[illogical]

Hi NotHelplessNow,

I have a different perspective.  I don't think it matters regarding your contact with your mother whether you read the cards or not.  She's not going to know, one way or the other.  How they make you react, though, is important.

You might examine a little more why you feel the need to read the cards.  Curiosity maybe?  You are holding onto a frail hope she might change?  A combo of both?

It sounds like the very sight of the cards is triggering.  For me, I would get triggered by my NM's handwriting.  This was even before I went NC and was VLC.  That's not good because it's stressful.  One thing you might think about is how you would react if you found out she was very ill.  Would that be an event that would cause you to break contact?  I know I had to work through that and the guilt was difficult to overcome.  When I was VLC, I received a call from NM's assisted living that she had fallen and had been taken to the hospital and I needed to get over there.  I declined to call them back and let my GC brother-- who was several states away-- take the reins.  I made it clear to him that I was no longer responsible for NM.  (Won't go into the backstory here, but let's just say that NM frequently "cried wolf" and left me to pick up the pieces of the aftermath after ignoring all my advice.)  Several months after this event, I went NC.  At that time, my NM and GC brother had seen me back way off any involvement in NM's health, various moves, etc. 

So what I'm saying is, you might want to explore your goal of NC here.  Is it a temporary time-out to see if your mother changes her behavior?  Are you perhaps avoiding the issue of her having a serious health problem and pressure to resume NC?  If you have made up your mind that you are not going to go back to any kind of a relationship with her, regardless of the state of her health, you might want to consider chucking the cards in an envelope and giving them to your therapist to read.  When you get to the place of indifference-- if that's your goal-- throwing them in the bin or even reading them and filing them away won't be an issue.  Just my two cents.  Take care!

[NotHelplessNow]

You've given me a lot to think about, illogical.  I'm not sure I really had a goal in mind for NC other than just to get some peace!  I tried LC for a while which just made things worse so I finally just blocked her phone number one day when I'd had it.  Initially I just thought it was a break but I ended up feeling so much better without a constant dose of drama/guilt/manipulation that I've kept it up for these last 4+ years.

I don't know what I'll do when NM really does become ill.  Currently my dad is still alive and I have other siblings so they could handle things if need be.  I'm sure the guilt would be very hard for me to deal with since I was always the one who was supposed to take care of her.  It's really the only reason I think she bothers to contact me at all.  My siblings tell me they're basically LC with her but that's all because of her.  She very rarely even calls them and they see each other once a year at best.  But I always had the opposite experience with her.  She would call me endlessly and just dump all of her garbage on me.  I think they must have somehow made it clear to her that they wouldn't be her punching bag/servant so she barely bothers with them.  Unfortunately I couldn't figure out how to do that which is how I ended up NC.  It's also why I'm thinking that NC is permanent.  I can't see any way around having contact with her and not having to constantly enforce boundaries.  I have no hope of a real relationship with her.  NC has definitely shown me that!  The cards and social media messages have always reinforced my decision to go NC because she just wants things to go back the way they were.  She has never apologized or asked me what's wrong.  She has implied that I'm equally at fault for "whatever the problem is".  NC gave me a way to get some distance from her and see how abnormal her behavior really is.  Non-PDs do not ignore the fact that someone suddenly stopped speaking to them and try to manipulate someone into having a relationship with them without ever talking about their issues.  And on top of all that, I've been able to see how much better my life is without her in it.  That is truly the reason that NC was a godsend.  I was depressed and miserable and could see no way out of it before NC.

I guess this is my long way of saying that I don't expect to break NC with her but I can't guarantee that the guilt won't get to me if she becomes seriously ill.  I can only imagine how hard that situation was for you to deal with.  I don't think I'm really expecting her to change, at least I hope I'm not. I also really, really want to get to the point where I am indifferent to her cards or whatever.  I don't seem to be there yet though even after all this time.

[Starboard Song]

We still get cards monthly, though we are 3 1/2 years NC. They are all addressed to my son, because they do not want a relationship with us. Astounding, I know.

We intercept and destroy such cards. My wife and I struggle with whether to read them. I'd rather they go straight to the trash, outside, unopened. She'd rather read them. My son knows we intercept and destroy all cards, gifts, and letters: we will never lie to him.

I guess I want you to know that the to read, or not to read struggle is very real. And I am deeply sympathetic.

Peace.

[NotHelplessNow]

Thanks for your understanding Starboard. It must be even more difficult with a child involved! I'm sorry you have to deal with this as well.

At one point I didn't want to even see the cards so I asked my husband if he would toss them in the garbage immediately. He didn't feel comfortable doing that unfortunately so I am stuck deciding to read them or not but either way being upset just seeing them. I just wish they didn't bother me so much. I can't help but feel stalked every time one shows up in the mail!

[illogical]

NotHelplessNow, it truly does get better the longer you are NC.  You develop a new perspective, a new outlook.  And as you heal, you begin to detach emotionally and the triggers become less powerful.  At least that's how it's been for me.  Time really does heal all wounds-- or at least it lessens them.  Hang in there.  You are on the road to freedom and I think you have a great outlook and understanding of your situation. 

[newlife33]

One of my favorite ways to cleanse myself from their toxic contact was to burn the letters.  It felt so freeing to watch them burn and know that the attack method they were trying to use on me has been destroyed.

[NotHelplessNow]

NotHelplessNow, it truly does get better the longer you are NC.  You develop a new perspective, a new outlook.  And as you heal, you begin to detach emotionally and the triggers become less powerful.  At least that's how it's been for me.  Time really does heal all wounds-- or at least it lessens them.  Hang in there.  You are on the road to freedom and I think you have a great outlook and understanding of your situation. 

Four years seems long to me and I think I feel like I should be "fixed" by now.  I'm so much better than I was though and I know I just need to keep at it.  Thanks for the inspiration!

One of my favorite ways to cleanse myself from their toxic contact was to burn the letters.  It felt so freeing to watch them burn and know that the attack method they were trying to use on me has been destroyed.

I love this, newlife33!  I see a fire in my future. 

[Starboard Song]

We've burned letters. We stopped because, for us, it felt like malice. We wanted our hearts to get to indifference and peace, and the inferno approach hindered that for us.

By all means, give it a try. But I encourage you to always monitor your heart and stay open to adjustments.

[NotHelplessNow]

As satisfying as watching the cards burn sounds, I doubt I will actually follow through on it. Mostly because I need to keep them as reminders.

Today NM sent me another FB friend request. This is the 8th account that she has set up for the purpose of stalking me. So it's been a banner week.

The reason I need these reminders is that as recently as last week, I was thinking about whether I should resume contact with her and EnDad. EnDad's birthday was this month and I was feeling melancholy and somewhat guilty because as bad as EnDad is, he's nothing close to NM. Truthfully if NM was gone, I would probably have contact with him. I think part of the reason I'm so upset is that these cards and letters remind me that I can't be around her at all because she's disordered. No one who isn't disordered would act like this. When I don't hear from her for a while, it's easy to forget. But being PD, she can't stop. And that means I'll never have a loving mother who cares about me as a person. That is incredibly sad. I thought I had processed that but apparently it hasn't completely sunk in yet.

NM had a health scare about 7-8 years ago. It was self induced (she stopped taking medication because EnDad was getting a lot of attention for being sick). I left the hospital one night when her recovery was still up in the air and all I could think was, "now we'll never have a real relationship".

The truth is, I've never had a chance at a real, loving relationship with my mother. And that really sucks!

[NotHelplessNow]

And the latest saga continues.  Yesterday I got another card, this one with an angry tone about how I should call my father for his birthday if I can fit it into my busy schedule.

After that, I asked my husband to throw the cards away before I see them.  His main worry was that at some point she would apologize for her behavior in one of the cards and I wouldn't see it.  I told him that after 4 years NC,  any "apology" she would make would be just a manipulation on her part. So he agreed to get rid of them for me.  Now if I just quit FB she will have to come up with a different way to harass me!

I am still waiting for that emotional detachment.  I'm really looking forward to the day when these things don't upset me so much.

[stasia]

I too got a card from M recently after a year and a half of NC. I could've written this:

It's also why I'm thinking that NC is permanent.  I can't see any way around having contact with her and not having to constantly enforce boundaries.  I have no hope of a real relationship with her.  NC has definitely shown me that!  The cards and social media messages have always reinforced my decision to go NC because she just wants things to go back the way they were.  She has never apologized or asked me what's wrong.  She has implied that I'm equally at fault for "whatever the problem is".  NC gave me a way to get some distance from her and see how abnormal her behavior really is.  Non-PDs do not ignore the fact that someone suddenly stopped speaking to them and try to manipulate someone into having a relationship with them without ever talking about their issues.  And on top of all that, I've been able to see how much better my life is without her in it.  That is truly the reason that NC was a godsend.  I was depressed and miserable and could see no way out of it before NC.

The card I got was a total love bomb. It was gross, it was manipulative, it did not contain an "I'm sorry" or "are you OK" or ANY indication that something might be wrong in our relationship. It made me cry and panic and feel cornered like an animal. I am triggered by her handwriting, and I am triggered by the sight of the card, and most triggering of all is how it clearly must have smelled like her hoarded cats, because my two cats went absolutely nuts over it, sniffing it thoroughly and enthusiastically. (A big reason why I'm NC is that her cat hoarding terrifies me, she won't stop, yet she's "so overwhelmed" with their care and expects me to "rescue" her from it - while simultaneously refusing to give any of them up, ?? - and I cannot be around it for my mental health. And physical health; one of her cats attacked me and she blamed me for it as I was bleeding all over her floor and said absolutely nothing when I told her the bite had gotten infected and I had to go on heavy duty antibiotics.)

I have Boyfriend open mail that comes from her because I am scared one day it's going to be a suicide note - and then I'd have to call someone to remove the cats, assuming I get the note before they've already starved to death. I WISH I could toss them unopened, but I feel like I have a responsibility to alert the authorities if she's killed herself and notified me. Even if I did toss the cards, though, I'd still see them come into the house; I get home from work first and we just have a mail slot in the door so all mail is just sitting there on the floor in front of me when I get home.

I am really glad that your husband has agreed to toss yours out unopened. I'm hoping that brings you peace.

Like you, I too have no idea what I'm going to do when M gets seriously ill. I've already been forced to caregive her once by social workers, so I figure they're going to try again to force me into it. They threatened to prosecute me for elder neglect if I didn't, which the fine folks here and my T have told me they couldn't have done, but at the time I didn't know that and I believed them, so I caved. The last time I caregave her, I became suicidal so I know I can't do it again - but she has no one else. I'm an only child, she has no friends, the neighbors all shun her, the rest of the family fled screaming from her years ago, she will not allow strangers in the house because she's way over the legal limit of cats that her town allows and she's afraid of getting in trouble with the law. I'm currently wrestling with a LOT of guilt over the idea of letting her die alone. It is going to come down to whether I can put my own health and well-being ahead of hers. I'm honestly not sure.

[NotHelplessNow]

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this too, stasia. The love bombs are ridiculous! My NM never gave me anything remotely like the cards I get now before I went NC. These are sappy "daughter" cards about how she'll always love me. But then she puts her own words in them and the truth comes out.

Please take care of yourself. Your own mental health is too important!

[Gromit]

I guess I am vlc too, we do get cards from mum but it is the emails from my dad that get to me. Up until a couple of years ago I did respond to him, until I realised that things would not change, I would not get answers from him. The latest tells me he has changed his email address and the option to block it did come up, I wonder why I don't?

It has been 10+ years since I spoke to my mother but I did speak to my dad when he was ill, 2 1/2 years ago, he was recovering away from home. His hoovering attempts just unsettle me. I realise each time I have hopes that it will be different but it never is, always about him, them, very short, nothing about the situation. Even when he was ill he wanted me to see my mother, not him. I don't think my mother actually cares, with me out of the picture she is free to spin whatever fantasy she likes without me to point out it is lies.

The more I read about other people's communications from family the more I understand. It really doesn't matter what you do, it is for them that they send this stuff. They never try to find out what is going on with you, merely manipulate you to get a response, not honest communication, just a response.

G

[NotHelplessNow]

It has been 10+ years since I spoke to my mother but I did speak to my dad when he was ill, 2 1/2 years ago, he was recovering away from home. His hoovering attempts just unsettle me. I realise each time I have hopes that it will be different but it never is, always about him, them, very short, nothing about the situation. Even when he was ill he wanted me to see my mother, not him. 

I'm always amazed at how similar our situations are.  In the first few months after I went NC, my dad was in a rehab facility.  I talked to him a couple of times while he was there but all he would talk about was that I should call my mother.  Truthfully I think he just wants me to take some of the heat off of him because with no one talking to her very much (all my other siblings are pretty much LC) then he is the only one she has to dump her garbage on.


It truly is all about them.  It's very sad but it's never about having a relationship or communicating with us.