Hoover attempt after no contact, need advice

Blue233 · February 16, 2019, 07:48:31 PM

I went no contact with my entire family about 5 months ago. I did not announce that I went no contact, I simply stopped responding to family members and I took several family members off of Facebook (including my father who is likely a covert narc).

Quick background: My mother is deceased over 1 year. She was an enabling spouse of my narc father (never stood up to him, never protected us from his abuse). NF has no empathy, was very violent when we were kids, spent absolutely no time on me or my siblings, and literally kept to himself my entire childhood (except to yell at us or beat the crap out of my older brother). Some really emotionally abusive stuff towards me went down after her death whereby my father started to verbally put me down more frequently (even in group texts with my brothers). I started to distance myself (low contact). After going LC, my family decided to hold a "meeting" under the guise of bringing the family "closer together". This invite was sent by my father via email to my 2 brothers and myself. I strongly suspect my younger brother (who is also a narc and GC), put my father up to this as the email sounded nothing like how my father usually writes. My father later told me after the meeting that it was "my brother's idea, too", so my hunch was proven correct.

Long story short (other crazy stuff has happened as well, but I'll only focus on the meeting and aftermath) - I stupidly went to that meeting only to be ganged up on by my brothers and father. GC little brother began the meeting by shouting at me and accusing me of being an awful daughter and "not helping my father enough". They were also all shocked that I had the gall to be upset over them ruining my birthday a couple of months earlier (and that's when I went LC, the LC which resulted in the "family meeting"). I ended up leaving this meeting quickly after it began and immediately took GC bro and my father off of social media. It was definitely a set up and obviously designed to attack me from their vantage point of strength in numbers (family mobbing).

So a few days after that, I had a change of heart and tried to talk to my father. I sent him a very nicely worded email asking to meet one on one and that I wanted our relationship to be better. He flat out told me that it wouldn't be possible and that I needed to see a therapist. (They have no idea that I actually am seeing a therapist who has verified they are abusive and is well versed in narcissistic abuse).

So after this, I did not reply (what was the point) and got busy trying to heal from the hot mess that is my family. I went no contact but didn't announce it. It has been 5 months of silence from my father. He has not once tried to reach out to me in any way shape or form (i do not have him blocked on my phone or email). I finally have gotten to the point where I have accepted I mean nothing to them and never have.

So today my husband tells me that my father tried to friend request him on Facebook. (I have father blocked, so he can't friend request me - he could have however tried to call me or email me since those lines of communication are open still, but he hasn't).

I am pretty sure this is a hoover, but a part of me still struggles with wanting it to be a genuine attempt from him to mend fences.
However, I feel if it was genuine, he would instead call me or write to me directly, which he hasn't.
I'm inclined to stay no contact at this point. I have deleted the friend request for now.

Any thoughts or advice from anyone? I appreciate it!

lotusblume · February 16, 2019, 08:57:58 PM

Hi there Blue233,

What your FOO did was scapegoat you. That family meeting and the subsequent message from your father was all meant to dump their projections on you and make you feel crazy. You do not need to feel bad for not accepting that abuse and I commend you for going no contact and getting help through therapy.

This is my opinion but from an outside perspective that is emotional abuse. It can be very hard to accept. You are an empathetic person and a healthy one to hope that there can be reconciliation, but that can only happen if your father and brother realized how toxic and disordered and abusive they are towards you. They would then need to take actions to change (such as going to therapy themselves), and express true remorse, and begin to treat you with kindness and respect.

Many times people who have abused us reach out as a way to maintain control. Doing this through your spouse also counts. You are not allowed to put up a boundary with them to protect yourself. It is forbidden that you do not belong to them and behave as they wish.

I would say that even if your father did reach out to you directly, that would not mean that he is sorry or ready to take responsibility or admit his abuse. I'm very sorry if this sounds harsh, but he rejected you by saying you could not have a relationship and that you needed therapy. Please also keep in mind that his lack of contact is a silent treatment meant to punish you and is abusive. Your silence is No Contact, which means that you are withdrawing not to punish, but to put yourself out of the line of fire.

I know it is extremely painful to accept these kind of truths. Again, I am speaking from experience and opinion, but you are the only one who knows. In my case, my pain came from cognitive dissonance; wanting things to be an ideal way and not wanting to accept how they actually are. Wanting to see the best in people, thinking that everyone must think and feel the way I do, with empathy and understanding and remorse for bad behaviour.

Since you asked for advice, I would suggest trying to detach and look at your situation from an outside perspective. Imagine everything that you have experienced and felt has been felt by someone you love. This can help you to build self-compassion and self-love. You may also want to ask your therapist to help you put the blame where it belongs, and access any anger, resentment, rage, sorrow etc that you have towards your father and FOO.

My best piece of advice is to take all the empathy you have for those who hurt you and turn it inwards. Once you get more used to listening to how you really feel and putting yourself first, you will start to come Out of the FOG and your course of action or non action will be more clear.

Another thought, Hoover's such as the friend request to your spouse are meant to press you into a sense of urgency, where you need to act or respond. You can take all the time in the world to decide whatever is right for you.

Kind regards,
Lotusblume

Blue233 · February 17, 2019, 11:15:49 AM

Thank you LotusBlume. I agree with you on everything here. It is validating to have someone else see it the same way, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I also noticed yesterday that my older brother (who I still have on Facebook), put up a photo of himself, his wife, and my father cheesing it up for the camera in formal clothing. It's obvious to me that my younger brother got married and I was of course not invited (nor told about it). I fully see he's a flying monkey as well now. It's sad, but at least it pushes me closer to mentally and emotionally putting in that final nail in the coffin of having any hope that things will be different. Letting go of hope that they will ever show any positive signs of connection is the hardest I think. I'm getting there, though. Thank you again.

lotusblume · February 17, 2019, 01:28:53 PM

I'm sorry you're experiencing so much pain. It must hurt to have seen that photo and not have been invited to the wedding.

One thing that helped me was blocking my FOO on social media, but then I felt guilty about that, and for those that I did not feel a need to block, still experienced difficult feelings when seeing their posts related to my FOO. I deleted my FB account, my fiance asked why I should feel the need to delete it and not just block everyone else, but I felt it was a better decision for me to completely shut out the virtual world for a while. It has been one of the things that has helped me to detach guilt-free.

I hope you begin to feel better. You might want to check out Richard Grannon on YouTube. In one of his videos he alludes to being shot with an arrow, and how we try hard to figure out what kind of arrow it was, wood, metal, etc. But in the end, we have a bleeding wound, regardless of what we have been shot with. He says a lot of times people focus on trying to discern and dissect the behaviour of others and it keeps us from focusing on healing ourselves. I found that very helpful. It can be helpful to try and understand the behaviours of our FOO, but I think it starts to happen more clearly as we detach and begin self healing.

I try and work on re-parenting myself. The need for love and approval from our parents can really be a painful void and keep us stuck. When I'm feeling badly, I literally talk to myself, talk to me (as a little girl) as if I were my own mother, tell myself that I'm okay, that it's okay to cry, and literally "hug" myself or give myself affection and compassion. This usually makes me feel better. I also journal a lot and read a lot.

You are not alone. It is cliche, but time will pass and you will begin to see changes in the way you feel. It's important to transcend your suffering and not fight it. Everyone else will do what they are going to do because they don't hear you and have their own issues. It's not your fault.

Sending you a big virtual hug!

Blue233 · February 17, 2019, 01:58:58 PM

Thanks LotusBlume

I have vacillated on whether I should also take FB off for awhile, but I also felt like that is in a way letting them win. I also have other family (not related to my narc family) that I interact with regularly on FB and don't want to disappear from them (they are a good support for me). So I have chosen to put brother and his wife on restricted (other narc brother is blocked and my father as well). I will eventually unfriend them in time I feel and just have that be the end of it all. Right now I know there will be blow back if I unfriend right now (they no doubt will send nasty messages), and also will know they got to me (as the wedding photo is clearly trying to get my attention). I figure the more I ignore them, the more they see they are completely meaningless to me.

Indifference is what I'm going for now, and I'm getting there slowly but surely. Navigating all of this sure is hard, though. It's nice to have the support of this community to figure it all out. It's nice knowing we aren't alone, too.

JustKat · February 17, 2019, 05:30:48 PM

Facebook has really complicated things for children of narcs. When I went NC with my NPD mother, Facebook was still in its infancy and barely being used. After she died and I went NC with my enFather, Facebook had become popular. He and GC sis started to stalk me and spy on me, but I didn't want to close my FB account as I have both friends and business contacts there who I need to interact with. I also felt that deleting my account would be something I'd be doing just to stop THEM, so like you, I felt it would be giving them a win. Instead I decided to block my entire FOO. At the same time I created a second account in my name with some random pics, so if they search me (which I'm sure they do all the time), that's the one they'll find.

Your husband getting the friend request from your father, in my opinion, is more than a hoovering attempt. It's a way of keeping an eye on you, watching you, seeing what you're doing with your life since he can't contact you. When I went NC with my mother, she would often send letters and emails to my husband in an attempt to get info on me. It's such an unfair thing to do to the spouse. It sounds like your husband did delete the request, which I think was the wise thing to do. Friending them on FB means letting them back into your life, letting them see your photos, letting them know how you're living. For me, the creepiest part of going NC was knowing they were spying on me. It's a complete violation of your privacy and your wishes.

If your father's intention really was to mend fences, he could have/should have sent a private message along with the friend request explaining that. In just randomly receiving the request, you had no way of knowing what his intentions were, so I think you did the right thing. If he persists, your husband may want to consider blocking him as well.

Going NC in the age of social media is so very hard to do. It sounds like you're handling things really well. Hang in there. It will get better.

Blue233 · February 17, 2019, 08:19:28 PM

JustKathy - I completely agree with your perspective on it as well. That's exactly what I said to my husband (why would he friend you without even sending a message first or along with it). Made no sense whatsoever (and also highly inappropriate). Just goes to show they are incapable of having adult, one-on-one conversations with us that actually addresses any real issues. Your reply was very helpful and validating, thank you!!

Juniperberry · February 17, 2019, 11:15:57 PM

I am so very sorry your father and brothers treated you this way. Just awful. I'm so glad you got out.

Maybe it might help to think of the friend request in a very surface way. Your father asked your husband to "be friends" and your husband doesn't want to be his "friend." It would be weird if your husband did want to be his "friend" after he saw how your father treated you. Decision done.

There is no way to know if this is your father's way of hoovering, stalking, pretending it's all better, or whatever.

I totally get that the emotions run way beneath the surface here, but I sometimes find it helpful to make these "little" decision from what is directly on the surface, because everything else is a guess. Dad wants to be husband's friend, husband (rightfully!) doesn't want to, so he deletes the request.

Sending positive vibes.

Blue233 · February 18, 2019, 01:48:05 PM

Thank you juniperberry. I unfortunately had the pleasure of seeing my younger brother's wedding in all it's glory on Facebook yesterday (via another siblings page I had not gone no contact with). The fact that this older sibling could do this to me (not tell me about the wedding, not warn me in advance pictures might be posted, or at least talk to me to show me that he cares about me) was the last straw. My entire family partying it up and having a great time without me, and no one cared if I was notified or invited to my younger brother's wedding (GC, narc also). That was the official straw, and I have blocked all of that family on Facebook now. I'm done being treated as if I am nothing to them. I thought I might have one ally left in the remaining sibling I had tried to keep in contact with, but it's obvious that it is impossible to have a healthy relationship in a toxic, dysfunctional system of selfish, disordered people.

SunnyMeadow · February 19, 2019, 11:18:30 AM

Quote from: Blue233 on February 18, 2019, 01:48:05 PM
My entire family partying it up and having a great time without me, and no one cared if I was notified or invited to my younger brother's wedding (GC, narc also). That was the official straw, and I have blocked all of that family on Facebook now. I'm done being treated as if I am nothing to them.

Absolutely awful of them, all of them. I'm glad you blocked the entire family. They aren't worth your time.

Blue233 · February 19, 2019, 10:30:12 PM

Thanks Sunny Meadow, appreciate your support.

daughter · February 20, 2019, 09:43:03 AM

From what you describe, it sounds like meeting was intended to force you into elder-care duties for your father, to foist those "duties" upon you, the girl-child, to replace your mother. From what you describe, there's not a positive bond between yourself and your NF. Accept this, and firmly refuse to assume that role as primary caregiver for aging NF. Given tenor of meeting, I'd continue to maintain communication-distance from both NF and brothers, refusing to capitulate to hoovers that you "do for dad". Let GC brother take-on that role, meaning he can farm-out role to a paid caregiver, if need be, but you're not available to "do for" anyone.

Nothing from what you briefly described would suggest your NF truly wants to "mend fences". There's his entire history of pd-disordered bad behavior and bad parenting experiences, that can't be resolved by a "friend request to DH on FB". Accept that your NF is not a nice person; accept that you may need to distance yourself from NF and GC bro(s) hereon to avoid becoming free caregiver and pseudo enabler-wife to dad. The facts are plain to see here.

Blue233 · February 20, 2019, 02:01:42 PM

Thanks Daughter for your input. What's so weird about it is that my younger GC bro was only too happy to step up and do the "elder care". I had offered to help multiple times with whatever my dad needed, and he would refuse every time. Then he would be on FB later bragging about how helpful his son was (GC bro). I was in a lose lose situation. I wanted and tried to help, but was repeatedly turned down. So then when I distanced myself, they all turned on me.

But you are correct that my now deceased mother was enabling. She took care of him for 50 years, cooking, cleaning, soothing his many and varied moods and tempers, and essentially putting him above all else. I also thought that's what my brother's expected of me too, even if dad was saying "no" to my offers of help. I have no idea what their problem is, other than when I got mad (rightfully so) at their asinine treatment of me and withdrew to MC or LC, then they all decided that was unacceptable and now it was time to launch further smearing and control tactics. It's disgusting behavior either way.

Jade63 · February 21, 2019, 11:46:19 AM

Quote from: Blue233 on February 20, 2019, 02:01:42 PM
I also thought that's what my brother's expected of me too, even if dad was saying "no" to my offers of help. I have no idea what their problem is, other than when I got mad (rightfully so) at their asinine treatment of me and withdrew to MC or LC, then they all decided that was unacceptable and now it was time to launch further smearing and control tactics.

If you are the designated SG, then you will not be allowed to step up and do nice things. If they allow you to do nice things, they will have to admit you are a good person deserving of love and respect. Only the GC is allowed to receive those things.

~Jade

Blue233 · February 21, 2019, 05:30:31 PM

@jade - wow, i never thought of it that way before. that's even more sad and disturbing to realize.

as i begin to get more space from them, i have started to realize just how malevolent some of their behavior is. the intentionality and deviousness is truly disturbing. i think i have made the mistake of giving them the benefit of the doubt (because i'm a good person and hoped they were too deep down inside), but now i'm beginning to truly realize that this reverse projection is dangerous to me. i have to have my eyes wide open now regarding all of their behaviors.